Restaurant refuses Visa/Amex Gift Card AND requires photo ID with matching name for credit card

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Violation of credit card merchant agreement?  How big of a stink should I make?

If I go in there with nothing but a pre-loaded $500 Vanilla Visa card - no cash, no other cards, no ID, and eat, what are my options upon receiving the check?

I figure I can present them with 3 possibilities:

1)  they run the Visa card, which I point out can be used as either credit or debit

2)  they refuse the Visa card and let me go - I would make it clear that I'm not planning to return to pay and by not accepting the card before I leave, they're allowing me to eat for free

3)  they call the cops, at which point I would explain that I offered a valid form of payment that was refused, show the Visa logo on the card to the cops, and let the cops decide what happens next

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My low opinion of their business isn't likely to change.

DTASFAB (Sep. 20, 2016 @ 7:26p) |

Dear Blockheads,
Your willingness to let just any idiot into your establishment is concerning. Please do better in the fu... (more)

ledwards (Sep. 21, 2016 @ 10:20a) |

You must have a lot of free time.

HawkeyeNFO (Sep. 27, 2016 @ 3:09a) |

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That escalated quickly

Just trying to anticipate what I should be prepared for if I do it.

From Visa card acceptance manual --

Accept all types of valid Visa cards. To offer the broadest possible range of payment options to
cardholder customers, merchants must accept all categories of Visa debit, credit, and prepaid cards. ....

The unembossed Visa card (e.g., prepaid card) may look and feel different, but it is a valid card that can be accepted at any Visa merchant location that has an electronic terminal. Unlike an embossed Visa card with raised numbers, letters, and symbols, the unembossed card has a smooth, flat surface. From a merchant perspective, the processing of an unembossed card at the point-of-sale should be seamless. 

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-merchants.pdf 

DTASFAB said:   Just trying to anticipate what I should be prepared for if I do it.
You made this post during the meal?

a lot of govt offices won't accept Visa gift cards and require I'd with vard

rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   Just trying to anticipate what I should be prepared for if I do it.
You made this post during the meal?

LOL no.  I paid with a Chase Visa and showed an old college ID with my name and photo, but no other information.  This was about 30 minutes after showing my authentic state DL to order a beer with my food.  Their menu says they ID everyone ordering alcohol regardless of age.

If I go back, it will be another trip.  The food was good and the location is convenient to my home, but it's nothing I can't live without.

They seem like a bunch of uptight d*cks who think it's cool to treat all their customers like common criminals.

rufflesinc said:   a lot of govt offices won't accept Visa gift cards and require I'd with vard
  This is not a government restaurant.

800-Visa-911 to report noncompliance on-the-spot. There also is a webform here.  Takes like 1.5 seconds on google to find....  appropriate option is "refused to accept your card" from the list

In the past, the one time I reported a place that had a sign up saying ID with all credit cards and it was taken down a couple weeks later when I came back.

The credit company will fine non-compliant small businesses, and they have leverage over them.  If it's a big chain though, they likely won't do anything about it.

What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.

atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
 Exactly the opposite.  VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
The cardholders agree to the terms with VISA, and then the merchants agree to VISA's terms to be allowed to accept VISA payments.

You don't want to provide your Name/Address/Date of birth/DL# to a complete stranger working at a minimum wage job to expose yourself to identity theft?  That's why someone goes and obtains a credit card rather than using a check (which has zero security built in, anyone who receives the check can go and set up ACH withdrawals or print their own checks with the same routing and account number)

You also are not required to carry papers around with you in the USA, unless you are driving, then you are required to have the DL.  You are required to provide your name and address verbally to the police (in most jurisdictions?), and as already mentioned if stopped while driving, you must provide the DL.  Not everyone drives, so not everyone carries an ID around with them.  Not everyone even has an ID card.

atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud.
Really? Where have you been, because it's rather common knowledge that the standard Visa merchant agreement prohibits merchants from requiring ID. All they're supposed to check is that the card is signed (and that has nothing to do with "matching" signatures)..
  

Bend3r said:   
atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
 Exactly the opposite.  VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
The cardholders agree to the terms with VISA, and then the merchants agree to VISA's terms to be allowed to accept VISA payments.

You don't want to provide your Name/Address/Date of birth/DL# to a complete stranger working at a minimum wage job to expose yourself to identity theft?  That's why someone goes and obtains a credit card rather than using a check (which has zero security built in, anyone who receives the check can go and set up ACH withdrawals or print their own checks with the same routing and account number)

 Find that hard to believe. Why would a merchant go through an extra step of checking DL if not requested by credit card company? And what identity theft? You hand waiter your VISA card, waiter asks for your DL, waiter checks to see name on DL is same as on VISA card, waiter hands back DL and goes to run card.

Have had ID stolen after eating in reputable upscale chain, paying with credit card, TWICE in 2 years. Now pay in cash, nothing identifiable. Drivers license at bar may make sense but this other monkey business is highly suspicious.

Please record the video on your phone and post it here for our amusement. Thank you.

atikovi said:   
Bend3r said:   
atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
 Exactly the opposite.  VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
The cardholders agree to the terms with VISA, and then the merchants agree to VISA's terms to be allowed to accept VISA payments.

You don't want to provide your Name/Address/Date of birth/DL# to a complete stranger working at a minimum wage job to expose yourself to identity theft?  That's why someone goes and obtains a credit card rather than using a check (which has zero security built in, anyone who receives the check can go and set up ACH withdrawals or print their own checks with the same routing and account number)

 Find that hard to believe. Why would a merchant go through an extra step of checking DL if not requested by credit card company? And what identity theft? You hand waiter your VISA card, waiter asks for your DL, waiter checks to see name on DL is same as on VISA card, waiter hands back DL and goes to run card.

  Because the person running the place is a moron and doesn't read the merchant agreement they sign, nor understand that if the rules are followed the liability is with the credit company.  Or they just like feeling like they're making their own rules to show people they're the boss.  Or like you, they just make up nonsense and pretend their nonsense (your silly claim that the credit card company is directing them to do so...) makes sense when the facts are the exact opposite.  Or equally likely they may be discriminating against a protected class... (Locally, there's some chain stores that only ID in areas of town that are predominately of a few races)

Many people can remember the whole name address and DOB from a quick look at a DL -- and that's ignoring the much plausible course of just covertly taking a photo of it.  And they'd also have the credit card number, as you point out.  Call credit card company, verify identity with date of birth/address combined with public information, and incredibly easy to social engineer access to the account.

Bend3r said:   VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
  
The first part is true, but I'm going to go so far as to say protecting the user from fraud has nothing to do with it.

The rule about no ID has been in existence since it was BankAmericard and Master Charge. Long before ID theft and the like was even on anyone's mind. It probably came as a selling point to merchants to justify paying the discount rate. The merchant got paid so long as the signatures reasonably matched. No worries about bad checks or sticky fingers from handling cash. Minimizing the time of the transaction as much as possible because back in those days they had to handwrite a chit, and taking more time to check IDs might have discouraged merchants. It may even have been anticipated back in that sexist era that the husband would be the only one qualified to get the card, but they had to make it so the wife could do the shopping or the card would never get used.

chyvan, you're correct it's also much more convenient for the consumer not to have every place that is supposed to accept the payment add on their own conditions. "VISA only accepted for purchases over $50 but not more than $300!"  "VISA only accepted on Tuesdays!" "Must wear a red shirt to pay with VISA here!" "Must be White to pay with VISA here!"

The idea is you see a sign that the merchant accepts VISA, then you know your payment is accepted and what's required.

Chyvan said:   
Bend3r said:   VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
  
The first part is true, but I'm going to go so far as to say protecting the user from fraud has nothing to do with it.

The rule about no ID has been in existence since it was BankAmericard and Master Charge. Long before ID theft and the like was even on anyone's mind. It probably came as a selling point to merchants to justify paying the discount rate. The merchant got paid so long as the signatures reasonably matched. No worries about bad checks or sticky fingers from handling cash. Minimizing the time of the transaction as much as possible because back in those days they had to handwrite a chit, and taking more time to check IDs might have discouraged merchants. It may even have been anticipated back in that sexist era that the husband would be the only one qualified to get the card, but they had to make it so the wife could do the shopping or the card would never get used.

  Signatures aren't matched.  You sign the transaction to acknowledge the purchase, you sign your card to accept the terms of the account.  The "no ID" rule is to make a charge transaction no more burdensome for customers as a cash purchase; if a cardholder had to ID himself with every purchase, credit cards would've never overtaken cash (or not nearly in the timeframe they did).
 

Bend3r said:   
atikovi said:   
Bend3r said:   
atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
 Exactly the opposite.  VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
The cardholders agree to the terms with VISA, and then the merchants agree to VISA's terms to be allowed to accept VISA payments.

You don't want to provide your Name/Address/Date of birth/DL# to a complete stranger working at a minimum wage job to expose yourself to identity theft?  That's why someone goes and obtains a credit card rather than using a check (which has zero security built in, anyone who receives the check can go and set up ACH withdrawals or print their own checks with the same routing and account number)

 Find that hard to believe. Why would a merchant go through an extra step of checking DL if not requested by credit card company? And what identity theft? You hand waiter your VISA card, waiter asks for your DL, waiter checks to see name on DL is same as on VISA card, waiter hands back DL and goes to run card.

  Because the person running the place is a moron and doesn't read the merchant agreement they sign, nor understand that if the rules are followed the liability is with the credit company.  Or they just like feeling like they're making their own rules to show people they're the boss.  Or like you, they just make up nonsense and pretend their nonsense (your silly claim that the credit card company is directing them to do so...) makes sense when the facts are the exact opposite.  Or equally likely they may be discriminating against a protected class... (Locally, there's some chain stores that only ID in areas of town that are predominately of a few races)

Many people can remember the whole name address and DOB from a quick look at a DL -- and that's ignoring the much plausible course of just covertly taking a photo of it.  And they'd also have the credit card number, as you point out.  Call credit card company, verify identity with date of birth/address combined with public information, and incredibly easy to social engineer access to the account.

  Someone smart enough to do that probably won't be working at a minimum wage restaurant job. 

Wish merchants would require ID for each credit card transaction. Seems crazy not to. I would think this would decrease fraudulent charges but I guess that is wild speculation. As a side note when I use my Visa card overseas I am always asked for identification.

atikovi said:   
Bend3r said:   
and that's ignoring the much plausible course of just covertly taking a photo of it.

  Someone smart enough to do that probably won't be working at a minimum wage restaurant job. 

  You think only 1%'ers have cellphones?
This isn't the 1920s, however much you like to pretend it is. Nearly everyone carries a very small camera around with them all day long...  Or you can order a much more covert one online for less than $20.....

Or even just get a mag-stripe reader like is commonly used for skimming credit cards, since many DLs have mag-stripes now.  Then you can sell it to a ring that makes fake IDs and they can put it on a new card with a new face printed on it and all the ID info, that that person can use with the duplicated debit card to withdraw cash or with a duplicated credit card to make a purchase. *neglecting the new chip and sign, which defeats credit card-skimming for physical purchases.

bopc1996 said:   I would think this would decrease fraudulent charges but I guess that is wild speculation.
  
Because of reg Z and zero liability with the card issuers, you personally aren't liable for the fraud anyway. So, try to tell me why I should consent to showing my ID or you thinking it's a good idea when the card issuers don't require it, and have determined that the increased fraud losses aren't worth the extra step? If the losses were so excessive to warrant the ID check, maybe the card issuers would do it. If the card issuers don't care, neither should you or anyone else.

If there happens to be a merchant on here, maybe they can answer the question: who eats the loss when person A uses person B's card?

Does no one remember the commercials where using VISA was so great because you didn't need ID​.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj_GwgOkv3w



Glitch99 said:   Signatures aren't matched.
  
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-merchants.pdf

"Print a copy or transmit an electronic receipt to the cardholder. If signature is required for the transaction, compare the name, number and signature on the transaction receipt."

See page 21. While in practice no one does it, it is a requirement. Therefore instead of merchants breaking the rules about IDing customers, they should be doing what the card issues allow if they're so worried about protecting their customers from fraud that the issuers eat.

.

I was in vegas recently, and every single time I used a card there, I had to show ID. Everywhere.

JCranfill said:   I was in vegas recently, and every single time I used a card there, I had to show ID. Everywhere.
  You mean in situations where you're required to be 18 or 21, which really has nothing to do with the specific form of payment?  Or do you mean at the gas station you swiped the card at the pump and it printed a message on the screen saying to run inside with your ID before you could pump gas?

Chyvan said:   
Glitch99 said:   Signatures aren't matched.
  
https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-merchants.pdf 

"Print a copy or transmit an electronic receipt to the cardholder. If signature is required for the transaction, compare the name, number and signature on the transaction receipt."

See page 21. While in practice no one does it, it is a requirement. Therefore instead of merchants breaking the rules about IDing customers, they should be doing what the card issues allow if they're so worried about protecting their customers from fraud that the issuers eat.

  Interesting.  It's clearly a new guidebook (talks of chips and liability shift details), I wonder if it a relatively new thing.  Also interesting that most big retailers aren't even capable of comparing signatures, since the signature pad sucks it up and it's never displayed on a screen or receipt.

Bend3r said:   
JCranfill said:   I was in vegas recently, and every single time I used a card there, I had to show ID. Everywhere.
  You mean in situations where you're required to be 18 or 21, which really has nothing to do with the specific form of payment?  Or do you mean at the gas station you swiped the card at the pump and it printed a message on the screen saying to run inside with your ID before you could pump gas?

  
I've noticed it in Las Vegas too.  Age requirement is unrelated to the credit card purchase.  Everyone wants ID where a human is involved in the merchant transaction.  Whether buying coffee, buying a sandwich, buying a show ticket, going to a convenience store to buy napkins, ID is required for a CC purchase. 

NEDeals said:   
Bend3r said:   
JCranfill said:   I was in vegas recently, and every single time I used a card there, I had to show ID. Everywhere.
  You mean in situations where you're required to be 18 or 21, which really has nothing to do with the specific form of payment?  Or do you mean at the gas station you swiped the card at the pump and it printed a message on the screen saying to run inside with your ID before you could pump gas?

  
I've noticed it in Las Vegas too.  Age requirement is unrelated to the credit card purchase.  Everyone wants ID where a human is involved in the merchant transaction.  Whether buying coffee, buying a sandwich, buying a show ticket, going to a convenience store to buy napkins, ID is required for a CC purchase. 

  Most likely a requirement by the credit card companies to reduce fraud.  Why would a merchant bother unless they were directed to do so by the credit card company.

Bend3r said:   
atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
 Exactly the opposite.  VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
The cardholders agree to the terms with VISA, and then the merchants agree to VISA's terms to be allowed to accept VISA payments.

You don't want to provide your Name/Address/Date of birth/DL# to a complete stranger working at a minimum wage job to expose yourself to identity theft?  That's why someone goes and obtains a credit card rather than using a check (which has zero security built in, anyone who receives the check can go and set up ACH withdrawals or print their own checks with the same routing and account number)

You also are not required to carry papers around with you in the USA, unless you are driving, then you are required to have the DL.  You are required to provide your name and address verbally to the police (in most jurisdictions?), and as already mentioned if stopped while driving, you must provide the DL.  Not everyone drives, so not everyone carries an ID around with them.  Not everyone even has an ID card.

  At least part of this is not completely true. I know that in Louisiana, residents are required by law to carry ID at all times. I doubt LA is the only state with this requirement.

ElephantNest said:   
Bend3r said:   
atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
 Exactly the opposite.  VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
The cardholders agree to the terms with VISA, and then the merchants agree to VISA's terms to be allowed to accept VISA payments.

You don't want to provide your Name/Address/Date of birth/DL# to a complete stranger working at a minimum wage job to expose yourself to identity theft?  That's why someone goes and obtains a credit card rather than using a check (which has zero security built in, anyone who receives the check can go and set up ACH withdrawals or print their own checks with the same routing and account number)

You also are not required to carry papers around with you in the USA, unless you are driving, then you are required to have the DL.  You are required to provide your name and address verbally to the police (in most jurisdictions?), and as already mentioned if stopped while driving, you must provide the DL.  Not everyone drives, so not everyone carries an ID around with them.  Not everyone even has an ID card.

  At least part of this is not completely true. I know that in Louisiana, residents are required by law to carry ID at all times.
 

  
That's pretty disturbing if true. What happens if I don't have my papers to show to the government agent? I'm walking down the street to the beach to go for swim, who takes their ID?

What if I don't have any ID to show regardless?

ganda said:   What if I don't have any ID to show regardless?
  You better be nakid.

ganda said:   
ElephantNest said:   
Bend3r said:   
atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
 Exactly the opposite.  VISA requires merchants not to require ID to protect VISA's customers (the people using the cards) from fraud.
The cardholders agree to the terms with VISA, and then the merchants agree to VISA's terms to be allowed to accept VISA payments.

You don't want to provide your Name/Address/Date of birth/DL# to a complete stranger working at a minimum wage job to expose yourself to identity theft?  That's why someone goes and obtains a credit card rather than using a check (which has zero security built in, anyone who receives the check can go and set up ACH withdrawals or print their own checks with the same routing and account number)

You also are not required to carry papers around with you in the USA, unless you are driving, then you are required to have the DL.  You are required to provide your name and address verbally to the police (in most jurisdictions?), and as already mentioned if stopped while driving, you must provide the DL.  Not everyone drives, so not everyone carries an ID around with them.  Not everyone even has an ID card.

  At least part of this is not completely true. I know that in Louisiana, residents are required by law to carry ID at all times.

  
That's pretty disturbing if true. What happens if I don't have my papers to show to the government agent? I'm walking down the street to the beach to go for swim, who takes their ID?

What if I don't have any ID to show regardless?

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes 

What's disturbing is that some of these states require people to speak to police, which is a clear violation of their 5th amendment rights.  Everyone has a right to remain silent, even without being arrested, and even before having Miranda rights read to them.

The problem is that any ID becomes like an "internal passport" to engage in ordinary business transactions and other activities, and without the card, participation is restricted.  The card becomes more important than the person.

More interesting reading:

https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2007/03/real-id_costs_a...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/jul/11/idcards.immigrat...

atikovi said:   What normal person leaves the house without ID? And I'm guessing it's VISA that is requiring their merchants to verify ID to guard against fraud. I'll take #3 and what will you do when the cops ask for your ID? Hope a ride downtown in the back of a police car is worth the hassle.
I have no problem identifying myself to police in this situation.  When I tell them my name and date of birth, they can identify me easily, since I have a DL in the state DMV computer system and I'm also a state employee.  There is no reason they would share that information with the restaurant owner or management.  In fact, it would be the police violating my privacy if they did, at least without a court order.

My comment about "letting the police decide what happens next" explicitly indicates my intention to comply with whatever instructions they give me.  Duh.  My only legal obligation is to pay my tab or offer to pay it with a method of payment consistent with the merchant's credit card processing agreement.  In other words, I want to avoid being charged with "theft of goods and services" or whatever the technical criminal statute is for dining and dashing.  As long as my intention to pay is clear to the police, I should have no problem avoiding a "ride downtown."

I forgot to mention earlier in the thread that I was upsold without realizing it until the check arrived, but I was only mildly annoyed at that.  What really upset me was the credit card/ID policy, which is why I made the thread about that, not the upsell.

I just sent them this e-mail through their website e-mail portal:
Hi I thought you might be interested to know of the backlash some of your credit card/ID policies are getting on the internet.  I started this thread on the FatWallet.com Finance discussion forum, but I held back pertinent details.

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1513629/?showmessage=19568257 

Here's everything I left out of the public discussion:

I recently visited ********** for the first time and I ordered a super veganator burrito at your ************ location.  I was asked if I wanted it exactly as described on the menu. It has been my experience at several restaurants in the area that cater to vegan customers that most are willing to allow reasonable substitutions and customization at no additional charge. In response to the server's question, I asked for "extra mushrooms." The burrito was excellent, but I was surprised when I received the check to see I had been charged an additional $4 for "mushroom medley." I'm presuming this was included in the burrito, because all that was on my plate was the burrito along with one small container of mild red salsa and another small container of green-colored vegan sour cream, which was also very good.

I believe the server was doing exactly as instructed by management and the service was excellent. My problem is not with the server, but with company policy. The requirement to show photo ID with a credit card is a clear violation of Visa's merchant agreement, and the refusal to accept prepaid Visa gift cards is also a violation of that agreement.

I trust that the next time I dine at your establishment, these violations will have been addressed. Thank you.

DTASFAB said:   It has been my experience at several restaurants in the area that cater to vegan customers
 

  So you're vegan? That explains it.

DTASFAB said:   I forgot to mention earlier in the thread that I was upsold without realizing it until the check arrived, but I was only mildly annoyed at that.  What really upset me was the credit card/ID policy, which is why I made the thread about that, not the upsell.

I just sent them this e-mail through their website e-mail portal:
Hi I thought you might be interested to know of the backlash some of your credit card/ID policies are getting on the internet.  I started this thread on the FatWallet.com Finance discussion forum, but I held back pertinent details.

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1513629/?showmessage=19568257 

Here's everything I left out of the public discussion:

I recently visited ********** for the first time and I ordered a super veganator burrito at your ************ location.  I was asked if I wanted it exactly as described on the menu. It has been my experience at several restaurants in the area that cater to vegan customers that most are willing to allow reasonable substitutions and customization at no additional charge. In response to the server's question, I asked for "extra mushrooms." The burrito was excellent, but I was surprised when I received the check to see I had been charged an additional $4 for "mushroom medley." I'm presuming this was included in the burrito, because all that was on my plate was the burrito along with one small container of mild red salsa and another small container of green-colored vegan sour cream, which was also very good.

I believe the server was doing exactly as instructed by management and the service was excellent. My problem is not with the server, but with company policy. The requirement to show photo ID with a credit card is a clear violation of Visa's merchant agreement, and the refusal to accept prepaid Visa gift cards is also a violation of that agreement.

I trust that the next time I dine at your establishment, these violations will have been addressed. Thank you.


I find that complaints to customer service/management are more successful when I focus on the thing that I want remediation for only. In this case, I would have focused on the payment issue since that's where you asked them to change the way they operate. Your mushroom complaint just comes off as b**tching since you are not asking for anything. And, to be fair, I always ask if I'm going to be charged extra when I ask for something extra.

BostonOne said:   
DTASFAB said:   I forgot to mention earlier in the thread that I was upsold without realizing it until the check arrived, but I was only mildly annoyed at that.  What really upset me was the credit card/ID policy, which is why I made the thread about that, not the upsell.

I just sent them this e-mail through their website e-mail portal:
Hi I thought you might be interested to know of the backlash some of your credit card/ID policies are getting on the internet.  I started this thread on the FatWallet.com Finance discussion forum, but I held back pertinent details.

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1513629/?showmessage=19568257 

Here's everything I left out of the public discussion:

I recently visited ********** for the first time and I ordered a super veganator burrito at your ************ location.  I was asked if I wanted it exactly as described on the menu. It has been my experience at several restaurants in the area that cater to vegan customers that most are willing to allow reasonable substitutions and customization at no additional charge. In response to the server's question, I asked for "extra mushrooms." The burrito was excellent, but I was surprised when I received the check to see I had been charged an additional $4 for "mushroom medley." I'm presuming this was included in the burrito, because all that was on my plate was the burrito along with one small container of mild red salsa and another small container of green-colored vegan sour cream, which was also very good.

I believe the server was doing exactly as instructed by management and the service was excellent. My problem is not with the server, but with company policy. The requirement to show photo ID with a credit card is a clear violation of Visa's merchant agreement, and the refusal to accept prepaid Visa gift cards is also a violation of that agreement.

I trust that the next time I dine at your establishment, these violations will have been addressed. Thank you.


I find that complaints to customer service/management are more successful when I focus on the thing that I want remediation for only. In this case, I would have focused on the payment issue since that's where you asked them to change the way they operate. Your mushroom complaint just comes off as b**tching since you are not asking for anything. And, to be fair, I always ask if I'm going to be charged extra when I ask for something extra.

B*tching was the entire point of e-mailing them.  I thought that was clear?  The more I complain about, the less likely it seems I'll return, except maybe to f**k with them.  They obviously don't want me to f**k with them, nor is it good for their business if I never return at all.

Chyvan said:   
bopc1996 said:   I would think this would decrease fraudulent charges but I guess that is wild speculation.
  
Because of reg Z and zero liability with the card issuers, you personally aren't liable for the fraud anyway. So, try to tell me why I should consent to showing my ID or you thinking it's a good idea when the card issuers don't require it, and have determined that the increased fraud losses aren't worth the extra step? If the losses were so excessive to warrant the ID check, maybe the card issuers would do it. If the card issuers don't care, neither should you or anyone else.

If there happens to be a merchant on here, maybe they can answer the question: who eats the loss when person A uses person B's card?

Does no one remember the commercials where using VISA was so great because you didn't need ID​.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj_GwgOkv3w



  Why? Even with zero liability it is a damn hassle to get charges removed and verified as fraudulent. That is why.

Skipping 91 Messages...
You must have a lot of free time.



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