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Hello FWF friends need your help with the depreciation calculation and to see which is a better deal.

If you could get a 2016 Honda Odyssey EXL for lets say $31,500 + TTL (6% PA Tax) - 36 months / 36,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty, additional warranty 7 years/100K will cost around $1000 - which will extend warranty another 4 years till 2023. 

Or, a 2014 Honda Odyssey EX-L - Certified - Miles around 32,000 for $24,500 +TTL (6% PA Tax) - Certified up to 7 years/100K miles from original date of 1st sale - so another 5 years warranty till 2021. 

Or, a 2013 Honda Odyssey EXL- Certified - Miles around 36,000 for $23,000 +TTL (6% PA Tax) - Certified up to 7 years/100K miles from original date of 1st sale - so another 4 years warranty till 2020. 

Which one is a better deal? Both the used vehicles are single owner, no accidents, clean car fax, regular maintenance done. 

Certified Vehicle gets 12 months / 12,000 mile "comprehensive" warranty, not quite bumper to bumper, but much more than just powertrain. 

After that for the remaining duration of the warranty it covers powertrain, 100% Parts and Labor. 

Details on Honda CPO here: http://www.hondacertified.com/warranty.aspx  

It is for my wife and kids (kids are both under 8). So the minivan will last few years in the family, easily 5-6 years, maybe more. 

We average only around 6K-8K miles a year. I know there is a lot of discussion about Minivan versus SUV or Sedans. 

We like minivans and it works for our family, so on that front our decision has been made. 

We are open to Siennas also. 2016 Sienna or even a late model used Sienna, but the best 2016 Sienna XLE deal I have come across is around $32500 + TTL. 

My family and I thank you for your input and suggestions! 

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Ok I think I stole a car!

You guys are terrific! Always have my back. Thanks to all the advice on this thread, I put off ... (more)

fwfisawesome (Jul. 28, 2016 @ 4:28p) |

Unless you are going for a small SUV then you are better off going back to minivans -- you get much more for your money.... (more)

RedWolfe01 (Jul. 29, 2016 @ 11:26a) |

Thanks to OP for responding to his thread.

forbin4040 (Jul. 29, 2016 @ 11:28a) |

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fwfisawesome said:   We average only around 6K-8K miles a year. I know there is a lot of discussion about Minivan versus SUV or Sedans.
 

  Since your annual mileage is low, go with the 2013 (or 2014). The extra 35k miles should not be a huge downside since you will barely hit 100k miles in 8 years on a fairly reliable vehicle.
 

just go for the new Honda Odyssey!

I know new sounds better, just trying to understand the financial comparison between new and used. Either a 2013, 2014 or 2016 will all work for my family.

The question is if for say another $6-8K, is it worth spending for a new one (depreciation wise)?

fwuser12 said:   
fwfisawesome said:   We average only around 6K-8K miles a year. I know there is a lot of discussion about Minivan versus SUV or Sedans.
  Since your annual mileage is low, go with the 2013 (or 2014). The extra 35k miles should not be a huge downside since you will barely hit 100k miles in 8 years on a fairly reliable vehicle.

  Agreed, unless there's some sort of feature in the 2016 that is worth $8K more, like if it washes and folds your kid's laundry for you  I definitely couldn't find pricing like that on CPOs when i was searching 4 years ago.

I feel these newer model odysseys are pretty reliable vehicles, so I'm not worried about the 2 or 3 years after your warranty has expired.  I've had mine for 4 years and it has been absolutely flawless.

bassmanben said:   
fwuser12 said:   
fwfisawesome said:   We average only around 6K-8K miles a year. I know there is a lot of discussion about Minivan versus SUV or Sedans.
  Since your annual mileage is low, go with the 2013 (or 2014). The extra 35k miles should not be a huge downside since you will barely hit 100k miles in 8 years on a fairly reliable vehicle.

  Agreed, unless there's some sort of feature in the 2016 that is worth $8K more, like if it washes and folds your kid's laundry for you  I definitely couldn't find pricing like that on CPOs when i was searching 4 years ago.

I feel these newer model odysseys are pretty reliable vehicles, so I'm not worried about the 2 or 3 years after your warranty has expired.  I've had mine for 4 years and it has been absolutely flawless.

  
Did you buy it new? 

OP, you should be watching this forum (and other forums) on Odyclub

Here's the link

Honda has already announced they are releasing a new 2017 Design (generally ODYs go thru about 5 or 6 year refresh cycles and it is due now).....
So, net net, you may want to buy the new 2017 design or benefit from the lower prices on used_old_design ODYs .... so you might need to wait out a couple more months....

OP, you do know what CPO is basically buying an extended warranty NOT from Honda?

The CPO warranties are not as good as new (or buying an extended on a new).
I would buy new.

Here's the link
http://www.hondacertified.com/program-benefits.aspx?gclid=COGalv... 
It's basically a Powertrain warranty with a 1 year (other item warranty)

dealgain said:   OP, you should be watching this forum (and other forums) on Odyclub

Here's the link 

Honda has already announced they are releasing a new 2017 Design (generally ODYs go thru about 5 or 6 year refresh cycles and it is due now).....
So, net net, you may want to buy the new 2017 design or benefit from the lower prices on used_old_design ODYs .... so you might need to wait out a couple more months....

  
Thank you. Yes I have been following the 2017 Ody news. It will be a new generation of Ody. 

I called Honda Corporate and they said 2017's Odys are not due till Dec 2016 (though 2017 Accords and Civics are already showing up on dealer websites). 

Ideally I want to wait a couple of months, one of the dealer said that August will be their busiest month of the year due to Year end clearance (and September their slowest). 

Unfortunately we are down to just one vehicle and it is becoming a nuisance to juggle everything with just one car. Maybe I can pick up a $1000 beater from Craigs for a couple of months  

I would definitely not get the 2013 in your scenario. In 2014 they switched to push button start with a key fob -- SO much more convenient. I specifically waited a couple months for the '14 and bought it brand new just to have that feature. For me it's worth the difference and then some not to have to dig your keys out to unlock or start the van, or to lock it when you leave.

As a data point, I bought my 2014 new 3 years ago for a little more than you can buy your 2016 for. I opted for the 8 year/120k Honda care warranty for peace of mind. I've had zero warranty issues so far, and I'm at 30k miles. If I were choosing today between getting rid of my van for $24,500 and buying a 2016 for $31,500, or keeping my current van, I would keep my current van every time. Also, with a 5-6 year time line I would definitely buy used vs new. I went new because I really wanted the key fob entry, I plan to keep it 10+ years, and the 3 year old vans were $28k+ and no push-button start.

fwfisawesome said:   I called Honda Corporate and they said 2017's Odys are not due till Dec 2016 (though 2017 Accords and Civics are already showing up on dealer websites). 

Ideally I want to wait a couple of months, one of the dealer said that August will be their busiest month of the year due to Year end clearance (and September their slowest). 

Unfortunately we are down to just one vehicle and it is becoming a nuisance to juggle everything with just one car. Maybe I can pick up a $1000 beater from Craigs for a couple of months  

  btw never believe a dealer, the guys you talk to have a 6 month lifespan at any dealership.  So how can they know the 'patterns' of busy and not busy?

forbin4040 said:   OP, you do know what CPO is basically buying an extended warranty NOT from Honda?

The CPO warranties are not as good as new (or buying an extended on a new).
I would buy new.

Here's the link
http://www.hondacertified.com/program-benefits.aspx?gclid=COGalv... 
It's basically a Powertrain warranty with a 1 year (other item warranty)

  
I had the same link in my OP also. The certified warranty is powertrain (correct, I stated the same in my OP) and it is thru Honda. It is good at any Honda dealership in the country. I understand Powertrain has limited coverage compared to buying the extended warranty thru Honda. I am self insuring for those kinds of issues and letting the Powertrain handle the bigger items. 

Though electrical things like doors etc can be expensive (I realize that). 

walkerbait said:   I would definitely not get the 2013 in your scenario. In 2014 they switched to push button start with a key fob -- SO much more convenient. I specifically waited a couple months for the '14 and bought it brand new just to have that feature. For me it's worth the difference and then some not to have to dig your keys out to unlock or start the van, or to lock it when you leave.

As a data point, I bought my 2014 new 3 years ago for a little more than you can buy your 2016 for. I opted for the 8 year/120k Honda care warranty for peace of mind. I've had zero warranty issues so far, and I'm at 30k miles. If I were choosing today between getting rid of my van for $24,500 and buying a 2016 for $31,500, or keeping my current van, I would keep my current van every time. Also, with a 5-6 year time line I would definitely buy used vs new. I went new because I really wanted the key fob entry, I plan to keep it 10+ years, and the 3 year old vans were $28k+ and no push-button start.

  
Had any wind noise issue? Lots of buzz online from various Ody owners about wind noise. 

The 2017 is going to look quite different to the 2016, if you're contemplating used I'd wait until the 2017 is available then see how heavily the "old, out of date" 2016's go for.

walkerbait said:   I would definitely not get the 2013 in your scenario. In 2014 they switched to push button start with a key fob -- SO much more convenient. I specifically waited a couple months for the '14 and bought it brand new just to have that feature. For me it's worth the difference and then some not to have to dig your keys out to unlock or start the van, or to lock it when you leave.

As a data point, I bought my 2014 new 3 years ago for a little more than you can buy your 2016 for. I opted for the 8 year/120k Honda care warranty for peace of mind. I've had zero warranty issues so far, and I'm at 30k miles. If I were choosing today between getting rid of my van for $24,500 and buying a 2016 for $31,500, or keeping my current van, I would keep my current van every time. Also, with a 5-6 year time line I would definitely buy used vs new. I went new because I really wanted the key fob entry, I plan to keep it 10+ years, and the 3 year old vans were $28k+ and no push-button start.

  

Features are a good thing to note. 2014 model got a mid-generation remodel so it's significantly improved vs. the 2011-2013 models. The 2016 is also the last of the 4th generation odyssey with a redesign coming with the 2017 model so it should likely go at significant bargain prices the closer you are or just after the 2017 model release as dealers scramble to clear inventory of the old body-shape minivans.

On the other hand, tons of new features like auto-braking, lane assist, or the sensing suite should be available in the 2017 model that were not available before so it may be worth waiting if you value those features. If not, I'd probably go for the 2014 since it had a refresh compared to the 2013 and it's not that much more in price. It has high mileage but 5-6 years of 6-8k miles/year will fix that. 

think of it from the opposite perspective: If you were to wait a few months and buy a 2017 Brand New Ody (with all the bells & whistles and safety features + 96 month Honda Care Warranty), you would not need to buy another Minivan before the kids move out of your Home! especially so because of the 6k to 8k miles your family logs per year - it will serve a very decent 12 to 15 year hauling you guys!

Ifwfisawesome said:   
 
  
I had the same link in my OP also. The certified warranty is powertrain (correct, I stated the same in my OP) and it is thru Honda. It is good at any Honda dealership in the country. I understand Powertrain has limited coverage compared to buying the extended warranty thru Honda. I am self insuring for those kinds of issues and letting the Powertrain handle the bigger items. 

Though electrical things like doors etc can be expensive (I realize that). 

I point that out because the CPO warranty and Hondacare warranty are very different.

What is fast tracked in the Hondacare  Warranty (Oh your engine fell out? Here's a rent a car, see you in two weeks) is NOT the same on the CPO (Oh, we need to charge you $150 for eval then afterwards they might pay for a Rent Car and they will Reimburse you).  

That's what I noticed.  The honda one does offer a 1 year all other stuff warranty (Unlike Toyota) but just beware that CPO warranties are not the same as original warranties.

forbin4040 said:   
Ifwfisawesome said:   
 
  
I had the same link in my OP also. The certified warranty is powertrain (correct, I stated the same in my OP) and it is thru Honda. It is good at any Honda dealership in the country. I understand Powertrain has limited coverage compared to buying the extended warranty thru Honda. I am self insuring for those kinds of issues and letting the Powertrain handle the bigger items. 

Though electrical things like doors etc can be expensive (I realize that). 

I point that out because the CPO warranty and Hondacare warranty are very different.

What is fast tracked in the Hondacare  Warranty (Oh your engine fell out? Here's a rent a car, see you in two weeks) is NOT the same on the CPO (Oh, we need to charge you $150 for eval then afterwards they might pay for a Rent Car and they will Reimburse you).  

That's what I noticed.  The honda one does offer a 1 year all other stuff warranty (Unlike Toyota) but just beware that CPO warranties are not the same as original warranties.

  and not all CPOs are true CPOs. I am currently helping a friend deal with a fradulent CPO (CRV....dealer sold it as CPO....unsuspecting friend just bought into the label called CPO....immediately after runs into issues with Brakes, electricals; selling dealer repeatedly sends him back by saying everything's Good....had the friend file a complaint with Honda Corporate....they have currently approved/prepaid for this vehicle to be checked out by a different dealer....this weekend it will be going for that) friend is not at all a car person....is disturbed by having to go thru this....wants to sell it and buy new Honda

Another data point:
Bought 2004 Ody EX-Leather with DVD. in July2004. Paid just under 30K.
125K on it right now. just keeps running. Zero repairs so far (except usual likes tires, brakes, alignment, selective "scheduled" maintenance)
few nicks and dents and likes. Got locked out once so had to get the door forced open which has significantly increased wind noise.

For your decision, consider this. The money extra u pay today for new model, what part of it will be recoverable if/when u will go to sell.
In other words, assume a timeperiod that u will keep the van (u mentioned 5-6 years as if it is eternity. It is HONDA, think 15-16!)
And then see at that age of the vehicle, what is 3 model years of age is worth.

I will strongly recommend paying attention to new features in 2017. LAne assist, brake assist etc are very powerful allies for those long drives. Spread over 15 years, the 2K (between 2016 vs 2017) u will spend extra now will be well worth it.


Whatever your decision (2017/2016/2013), waiting till 2017 is in the showroom is definitely the FW way to go.

See if any dealers have new demos. Helped my SIL buy a 2016 Kia Sedona SX for $26,999 + ttl 2 weeks ago. Saved $10,500 off sticker.

2008 Odyssey with less than 100K miles.

fwfisawesome said:   
walkerbait said:   I would definitely not get the 2013 in your scenario. In 2014 they switched to push button start with a key fob -- SO much more convenient. I specifically waited a couple months for the '14 and bought it brand new just to have that feature. For me it's worth the difference and then some not to have to dig your keys out to unlock or start the van, or to lock it when you leave.

As a data point, I bought my 2014 new 3 years ago for a little more than you can buy your 2016 for. I opted for the 8 year/120k Honda care warranty for peace of mind. I've had zero warranty issues so far, and I'm at 30k miles. If I were choosing today between getting rid of my van for $24,500 and buying a 2016 for $31,500, or keeping my current van, I would keep my current van every time. Also, with a 5-6 year time line I would definitely buy used vs new. I went new because I really wanted the key fob entry, I plan to keep it 10+ years, and the 3 year old vans were $28k+ and no push-button start.

  
Had any wind noise issue? Lots of buzz online from various Ody owners about wind noise. 

  There is some wind noise, but honestly if I'd never read any of the buzz about it I wouldn't have noticed it I don't think. I've definitely never thought it was excessive, nor have I ever been bothered by it. Mostly it sounds like a vehicle. But my other car is a 2003 VW so maybe I'm not accustomed to quiet cars.

Also, I have never once thought I should have bought a different make/model of van. The Honda EX-L is the sweet spot imo.

My biggest complaint about the 2014 is that I think they made a horrible user interface for the radio. It's a new digital/touch screen interface, and it's pretty bad. Not unusable, but it certainly feels like an auto maker made it and not a technology company. My other complaint about the vehicle would be the variable cylinder technology (Eco) is noticeable when engaging/disengaging. Neither of these issues are enough to make me wish I had a different vehicle, but should be noted nonetheless. And I'm pretty picky when it comes to vehicles and noticing stuff.

Thanks guys! Great points. I will ponder over it and chat with the wifey! Looks like it is worth the wait for now, either to pick up a 2016 at clearance prices (in a few months) or hold out for a 2017 one maybe in 8-10 months or so when the prices have tapered off. In the meantime, I will find something like a Civic or Corolla to tide us over. Should be ok.

I hear new 2017s might sell for MSRP initially, I aint that crazy about any vehicle. I can wait I am on FWF afterall. 

Thanks again!

You don't want one of the first models of a new version anyway (I knew this rule, ignored it, and regretted it). Let them iron out the kinks first.

How will you finance your purchase? There is currently a 0.9% Honda financing on new vehicles. The best rate for new vehicles outside the manufacturer was 1.49% from penfed. Used was1.99%

Something to think about.

Another data point: Crown Vic.

tennis8363 said:   2008 Odyssey with less than 100K miles.
  While 2008 is 'ok'

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/Odyssey/

2009+ are better vans

Kandykornhead said:   Another data point: Crown Vic.
  
I was waiting for this post  

unrivalled said:   How will you finance your purchase? There is currently a 0.9% Honda financing on new vehicles. The best rate for new vehicles outside the manufacturer was 1.49% from penfed. Used was1.99%

Something to think about.

  
I will be financing it. Right now I have 1.99% rate from Lightstream - unsecured loan. 

I might consider others including https://www.ussfcu.org/rates2.php  who do 0.99% up to 48 months. 

0.9% from Honda would be ideal but sometimes if incentives includes customer cash, then the financing option is off the table, manufacturers do either or. 

For anyone interested some good reading on auto rates here: https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1498275/

ganda said:   You don't want one of the first models of a new version anyway (I knew this rule, ignored it, and regretted it). Let them iron out the kinks first.
  
True I am not that keen on the 2017, if any, waiting for it to arrive so i can leverage on the 2016s. 

fwfisawesome said:   
unrivalled said:   How will you finance your purchase? There is currently a 0.9% Honda financing on new vehicles. The best rate for new vehicles outside the manufacturer was 1.49% from penfed. Used was1.99%

Something to think about.

  


0.9% from Honda would be ideal but sometimes if incentives includes customer cash, then the financing option is off the table, manufacturers do either or. 

 

  
2016 max the loan out at 140% of purchase and park that 0.9 somewhere worthwhile 

Why hasn't anyone mentioned that it's a TERRIBLE idea to buy the first year model of a new generation? Sure you got warranty but the first year is when all the bugs gets figured out and what recalls are needed for future years of the same generation.

TrueKnight said:   Why hasn't anyone mentioned that it's a TERRIBLE idea to buy the first year model of a new generation? Sure you got warranty but the first year is when all the bugs gets figured out and what recalls are needed for future years of the same generation.
  
Correct I am wary of this and not keen on the 2017. As I said before the 2017 arrival is being awaited mainly as a negotiation tactic to steal a 2016. 

dealgain said:   OP, you should be watching this forum (and other forums) on Odyclub

Here's the link 

Honda has already announced they are releasing a new 2017 Design (generally ODYs go thru about 5 or 6 year refresh cycles and it is due now).....
So, net net, you may want to buy the new 2017 design or benefit from the lower prices on used_old_design ODYs .... so you might need to wait out a couple more months....

  That's a terrible advice. Any vehicle on its first model year are most troublesome. Don't be the sucker and just buy the last model year car with a discount, if you like to buy a new car. TrueKnight, I saw your post too late.

TrueKnight said:   Why hasn't anyone mentioned that it's a TERRIBLE idea to buy the first year model of a new generation? Sure you got warranty but the first year is when all the bugs gets figured out and what recalls are needed for future years of the same generation.
I've had similar luck with 1st year models through 4th year models from various manufacturers. I would not be swayed from buying a first model year unless I can't get a good deal on it.

Be careful with those key fobs and push button starting.

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/07/despite-vehicle-advances-break-d...

Nissan had the best key system I've ever seen on the higher trim Rogues in 2012 and 2013. It's a completely smart key with push buttons on the driver and passenger door handles to lock and unlock the vehicle from the outside with the key in your pocket. The ignition is a traditional ignition with OFF, ACC, ON, and START positions, but the key doesn't have to be inserted into the ignition to turn it as long as the smart key is inside the vehicle. If the battery in the fob dies, there's a physical key that can slide out from the fob and be used as a traditional key. But this key has a security chip (not battery powered) that is required in order to start the vehicle. It's the best of all worlds.

I don't know if any vehicle manufacturer is offering this any longer. Most of them I think are just using push buttons. The problem is that if the battery in the fob dies, the button won't start the car, and there's no plan B.

DTASFAB said:   Be careful with those key fobs and push button starting.

http://newsroom.aaa.com/2016/07/despite-vehicle-advances-break-d... 

Nissan had the best key system I've ever seen on the higher trim Rogues in 2012 and 2013. It's a completely smart key with push buttons on the driver and passenger door handles to lock and unlock the vehicle from the outside with the key in your pocket. The ignition is a traditional ignition with OFF, ACC, ON, and START positions, but the key doesn't have to be inserted into the ignition to turn it as long as the smart key is inside the vehicle. If the battery in the fob dies, there's a physical key that can slide out from the fob and be used as a traditional key. But this key has a security chip (not battery powered) that is required in order to start the vehicle. It's the best of all worlds.

I don't know if any vehicle manufacturer is offering this any longer. Most of them I think are just using push buttons. The problem is that if the battery in the fob dies, the button won't start the car, and there's no plan B.

  
Thank you for sharing. Good info to have, didn't think about the downside of these keyless entry features. 

delhel said:   
dealgain said:   OP, you should be watching this forum (and other forums) on Odyclub

Here's the link 

Honda has already announced they are releasing a new 2017 Design (generally ODYs go thru about 5 or 6 year refresh cycles and it is due now).....
So, net net, you may want to buy the new 2017 design or benefit from the lower prices on used_old_design ODYs .... so you might need to wait out a couple more months....

  That's a terrible advice. Any vehicle on its first model year are most troublesome. Don't be the sucker and just buy the last model year car with a discount, if you like to buy a new car. TrueKnight, I saw your post too late.

  
No worries, I highly doubt I would go for a new generation model right after introduction. In fact buying a new car itself is out of character for me, unless financially it is prudent. 

For what its worth.... Edmunds has a total cost of ownership calculator for a 5 year span :

TCO on a 2016 : $35,210 assuming cash price $32,807
TCO on a 2013 : $33,956 assuming cash price $23,229

Since you can get the 2016 for ~1000 cheaper this makes your costs just a few hundred difference over 5 years.

However their figures are based on a bunch of variables that make assumptions so YMMV. They figure the 2013 is going to pile up ~2k in repairs average and about $1k more in maintenance. THe 2016 will have resale of ~17k and the 2013 resale is ~11k.

Now I'm sure people will debate those figures. But Edmunds uses broad averages to estimate the expected costs. Most of us won't see a $1k repair bill on an 8 year old car but 1 in 10 of us might have an engine or transmission go out or a AC failure, etc.

Skipping 18 Messages...
Thanks to OP for responding to his thread.



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