Long story short, the Mrs. wants to go to Sedona, Arizona for our Anniversary. Decent rooms are $200-$350 a night depending on location and hotel chain. The Hyatt currently has rooms for $250+ a night but has a deal for $198 for 4 days, 3 days plus 10,000 Hyatt points if we sit through a 90 minute time share presentation. Besides them being pushy salesmen, is it worth it if I know I can save hundreds of dollars on the same vacation? I think two hours of our time is well worth the $500+ we're saving.
(PS I plan on telling them towards the end of the presentation that I filed for bankruptcy and she has default student loans).
I think it's worth it. We did a week at Westin Kaanapali for $750 in return for sitting in the 90-minute timeshare schpeel. About midway through a freak accident happened where the saleswoman offered hand sanitizer to us. My wife squirted it out of the bottle but apparently some of it had crusted up covering 99% of the bottle opening. As a result the sanitizer shot out 90 degrees from the opening right into the eye of our two year old daughter who subsequently began to freak out. That was our free pass to leave 45 minutes early. She really took one for the team
When you're on the phone with the lead generator, hem and haw a little bit when deciding whether or not to accept their offer and they'll sweeten it up a bit.
Do a something search for timeshare presentation tips to prepare yourself and minimize the amount of time you have to spend with the sales folks. In a nutshell, don't try to pick apart their numbers, don't provide too many personal details, stick to one excuse for why you're not interested and get comfortable repeating it and politely saying "No, thank you" to run out the clock.
My wife and I have sat through about a dozen timeshare presentations from all the main sellers: Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, Wyndham, and some one-off properties. Yes, it's worth it financially. You can get out of them fairly quickly if you are polite, but very very firm. They all have this standard process: -inspirational video with group, usually 10-15 minutes -meet your salesperson and some worthless small chat for 5 minutes -some sort of inspiring worksheet/exercise around your ideal vacation, where would you go in the world. Inevitably they have an amazing property wherever you want to be -Some paper napkin calculation of how much you waste each year 'renting' your vacation when you could be owning a 'deeded vacation property' -A description of their unique system, how it's the best, how many points you get, where your property actually is, how you can trade it for anything anywhere yadda yadda -Walkthru of a model property. Hopefully this is onsite, sometimes they try and make you drive or take a bus to wherever it is. -First attempt at sale on the first offer which is horrible, maybe some basic objection handling when you say no -Second offer that appears to be much improved, double the points or whatever for same price, more aggressive objection handling and pushback. They'll keep pushing here if you aren't a firm no as this is when most conversions happen. -They'll call in a 'manager' who is really a closer with the best (but still terrible) offer who will try to sell you, how hard depends on what the rep told him about how firm you were. If you are wavering at all, they'll keep pushing. -Sometimes they'll then send someone to collect feedback (also could be the manager/closer) who will ask you to rate the sales process, and then try one last smaller sale on a one-off vacation package. -You get your little completion slip and check out and get whatever gift you signed up for.
A few things I've learned over the years: -Negotiate the gift before you agree to the presentation. Usually they have some wiggle room and will throw in free show tickets, more miles, meals, coupons for future stays, etc. Just keep asking for more before you commit to the package. -Ask for the model visit to be onsite only and refuse to take a bus or trip offsite -get on the same EXACT page as your sig other before you walk in the room. They will try to pit you against each other using emotion ("don't you want to give your wife the vacation she deserves?" -that kind of crap). So you have to explicitly agree with each other that you will not indicate any interest whatsoever no matter what they say. Any indication of interest however slight will keep you there longer than you want. -Be polite, but always be firm. Always balance a positive comment with a firm no. "Looks nice, but we're not interested in buying." "Thanks for your time, but we wouldn't consider making such a big decision right away" "We don't want to waste your time, so we're happy to sit through this presentation, but we will not be purchasing today". Don't leave any room for negotiation, and do NOT name a price or value they could meet. -The magic words for me have been, "If I was going to buy a timeshare property, I would do so on the resale market, because they are much cheaper." It also can help to actually look at eBay or other sales websites to have evidence of how much cheaper it is to buy on secondary market and print out listings or have them ready to show on your phone.
They can be very stressful if you aren't use to getting hard sells. If you have any other questions happy to help!
* you have failed their income, marriage or age requirements, as then they're free to not fulfill their part of the deal * the money is tight right now, as they always have some shady lender willing to propel your timeshare owner dream for a nominal APR of 18% or something
Things you can say: * your uncle, mother-in-law, former prison mate, etc. are actually timeshare holders with Hyatt, they're super happy about it, and you'd like to explore just a few more options before committing * your CPA, attorney, financial advisor or wealth manager told you to explore secondary market like http://www.sellmytimesharenow.com/timeshare/Hyatt+Pinon+Pointe/r... and you have your guys exploring that option * if the timeshare is kid-friendly, tell them how much you hate being around noisy brats, if it's not, tell them you have an addition to the family on the way. You'll likely be given a spiel on how you're really buying points into their worldwide system, not rooms at a specific resort, but by the time the spiel is done, they wasted like 10 minutes of their time, and they're on the clock * tell them you liked the amenities and upkeep at hilton grand vacations or Wyndham better
doveroftke said: In a nutshell, don't try to pick apart their numbers, don't provide too many personal details, stick to one excuse for why you're not interested and get comfortable repeating it and politely saying "No, thank you" to run out the clock.
They'll have an answer for just about any reason you might give, so don't bother. Just say no thank you, and at the end of the 90 minutes (which they will try to stretch to 2 or 3 hours), stand up and politely say, "we have to go now, can you have your manager come over and finish this up since we aren't going to be buying anything today?"
mattun said: I did find the 15% inflation rate on hotel rates funny. The average hotel should have been about $2000/night by now according to their numbers. That also conveniently ignores the apartment and timeshare rentals. Every time a new HomeAway, AirBnB, VRBO, Vacatia, VaycayHero or RoomKey site launches, that pushes up the supply of available beds. Hotels more or less have to keep up with market pricing.
needhelpplease said: Does anyone know if there is a legal way to get out of a timeshare? (besides death ) I hear commercials on "timeshare transfers" all the time Timeshares are often like junk bonds with a negative-coupon rate. You may have to pay-up to stop the bleeding.
SummerSoFar said: needhelpplease said: Does anyone know if there is a legal way to get out of a timeshare? (besides death ) I hear commercials on "timeshare transfers" all the time Timeshares are often like junk bonds with a negative-coupon rate. You may have to pay-up to stop the bleeding. My wife had bought one off someone getting divorced. Eventually the fees were to much. We were able to deed it back.
If it's a personal tour or presentation I ask the current time. I interrupt if I have to. I have the paper in my hand that states I have a 90 minute commitment to fulfill my end. I write the current time & end time on the paper. I'm not mean to the salesperson but I'm not encouraging either. I state that I HAVE to leave at the end time for a urgent appointment. Sometimes if the sales person is tops they'll slough me off to a junior & I'll repeat my boundaries. If no ones around I get instantly ushered out to the exit desk & receive my prizes. I'm always out in less than 100 minutes.
I spent a week in Hawaii and did 4 different presentations. Ended up with $100, two massages, two surf lessons, and a sailboat snorkeling tour for three. One other tip is never give them a reason you're not interested beyond something like I don't make big purchases spur of the moment. They have a response to pretty much everything.
I probably didn't get all the details straight but I was way too nice at one and I was there FOREVER. Had I been retired with unlimited flexibility and "vacation", I may have actually made one with their supposed eventual conditions/price worthwhile.
made a big mistake. He offandedly asked as we were walking around the property ... does this look like something ud like. My foolish response was yes. 90 more mins before we left. Tripple hard sell from then on. Tho i really would have liked to own it ... i wasnt going to buy then and there anyways.
Depends on whether or not you have any self-respect.
I would be thinking about how I am essentially ripping these (lowlife) people off:
1. While reading the promotional material. 2. While making travel arrangements. 3. While making arrangements to take time off work. 4. Every night before the trip. 5. While packing for the trip. 6. During the entire airport arrival experience. 7. Throughout the entire flight. 8. After landing. 9. Before showing up for the presentation. 10. For the rest of my life.
Crazytree said: Depends on whether or not you have any self-respect.
I would be thinking about how I am essentially ripping these (lowlife) people off:
1. While reading the promotional material. 2. While making travel arrangements. 3. While making arrangements to take time off work. 4. Every night before the trip. 5. While packing for the trip. 6. During the entire airport arrival experience. 7. Throughout the entire flight. 8. After landing. 9. Before showing up for the presentation. 10. For the rest of my life. Wait, wait.... You mean you also lose sleep over obtaining credit cards for ~$500-1000 opening spend bonus or for strictly 5% category bonuses and ripping the banks off?
Timeshares are one of those things that looks good on paper but the reality of the fees, points, swapping, etc usually make it very expensive in the long run. Wife's parents bought one and only used it 2 or 3 times. Only way they got out of it was they traded it in on another time share property and the second property went bankrupt. They paid much more in fees over the years than they could have rented hotels for those 2 or 3 times.
Yes you can buy them for next to nothing on the secondary market or even get people to pay you to take them, but the ongoing fees are the real problem.
Don't ask any questions at all. I did this once at a presentation in Aruba and it ended up costing me +2 hours of vacation time. Not that I was interested, I was just curious how it worked in a little more detail.
I would do it again following the instructions above. Just be prepared for the high pressure presentation & sales pitch.
Embed this: you're searching to find the most profitable 'contract for attending" that you can. This is why we're on Finance Forum. find an offer of 1-week unencumbered certificate = great performance! $500 gift card = fantastic! Settling for less = fine, as you're still making a determination 100% your own . But we'd love to be reach as high as they let us - or skip to the next opportunity!
About attending: why would anyone NOT enjoy making money??? why do you need to dwell on THEIR reasons to pursue THEIR occupation? You're enjoying 90 minutes at a 5-star resort, making the money you wanted to make!!! Of course it wouldn't feel right if you were not making good money - but that simply can't happen. You have negotiated the reward of your liking, or you wouldn't be there. See, this is mutually exclusive. You either don't like the reward and go to your next opportunity; or you're looking forward to your hand-picked reward, and you merely bide 90 minutes at a beautiful place. It can't get any better for you. Them - they'll clown around in front of you today, but eventually they'll find themselves a worthy career - so don't worry about them clowns. Enjoy yourself as you always would, and your great demeanor will rub off. Bring a sincere smile to their face, to replace those forced/fake smiles.
P.S. Very little difference in substance between these ventures here vs. opening/maintaining/closing accounts for bonuses, or applying for a focus group opportunity. Plus here you're at a beautiful vacation place
EradicateSpam said: Did it once, never again. Life is too short to deal with BS like this. I've actually reached this point myself. Back in the day when I was broke, I used to take advantage of these deals fairly often, but now that I can afford to go where I want and stay where I want, blowing a couple of hours listening to a room full of windbags just isn't worth a couple hundred bucks to me. It also used to be harder to book these resort properties as a non-owner, but with VRBO and other online booking sites, I can easily rent a condo at any timeshare resort I want at a reasonable price without all the hassle and pressure of a timeshare sales pitch.
Crazytree said: I would be thinking about how I am essentially ripping these (lowlife) people off:
When they call me to offer me a package, the first thing I always say is "I've been to a timeshare presentation before and it wasn't really for me, I don't want to waste your time and money". The response is always "It's okay if you don't buy, we really just want to get people through to see the property" (of course, because the lead generators are paid by the number of folks they get through the door, not how many buy). That eases my conscience, but it also gives me a the perfect excuse when the salesperson asks me why I accepted the offer when I had no interest in buying.
The resort doesn't care because the marginal cost of a resort stay is very low. The amount you pay covers their costs, if the room was going to be empty anyway they haven't lost any money and have the chance of making a sale.
The salesperson is the only person possibly short shrift, but if you weren't there they wouldn't have anyone to even attempt to sell to and would be out of a job. Also, timeshare sales are a step below used car dealers so it's hard to feel too bad for them.
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