appraisal, buying new

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How would you handle this?

I got my car appraised at carmax, for 8.5k. I used to work for these guys, and im pretty sure my former work friend gave me the max amount he could, really hooked me up.  I then took my apprasial to a different company that supposedly almost always beats carmax (they have people standing outside carmax holding signs saying see us after them). I showed him the carmax apprasial, he walked out looked at my car for 5 mins (A kia forte) and came back and told me "Do not let that apprasial expire, sell it to them at that price before they come to their senses."  He said it was worth about 7k and told me to go back to their competitor that I got a great deal, so I assume he wasn't laying.  Basically saying, its my job to beat them, but they put your car way to high I advise you to take their offer ASAP.  THe Carmax offer is $1,000 over blue book.

So my question, all dealers match Carmax.  But if this apprasial is really a gift, im sure they will say they are matching it, but just have to not give me a good price on the vehicle, therfore really muddying the negotiations.  So if they would normally go as low as 15k on a new elantra, maybe they will keep my price at 16k.

Would you just sell the car to carmax, or take it to dealers and have them match it, but know they probably will then not budge or give you their true lowest price on the car since they have to pay me too much for mine?  If I sell it to carmax, i lose out on about $500 tax savings if i trade it into the dealer I sell it. 

How the hell would you approach this?  I just am worried dealers are going to know i expect them to match carmax, so Im almost expecting them not to budge much on the Elantra.  TrueCar has the new Elantra I want to buy at about $15.5k.

 

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Are you getting 0% interest on the new car? You would need excellent credit to do so.

If so, just negotiate the price of... (more)

drew2money (Aug. 25, 2016 @ 1:49p) |

Two points though - one, they are not in fact matching the Carmax deal, so it's a bit disingenuous at best.  Two, I had ... (more)

dcwilbur (Aug. 26, 2016 @ 8:19a) |

He was matching what CarMax was actually offering you.  Your car might have been worth $14k to CarMax, but that doesn't ... (more)

cestmoi123 (Aug. 26, 2016 @ 8:39a) |

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vansville said:   How would you handle this?

I got my car appraised at carmax, for 8.5k. I used to work for these guys, and im pretty sure my former work friend gave me the max amount he could, really hooked me up.  I then took my apprasial to a different company that supposedly almost always beats carmax (they have people standing outside carmax holding signs saying see us after them). I showed him the carmax apprasial, he walked out looked at my car for 5 mins (A kia forte) and came back and told me "Do not let that apprasial expire, sell it to them at that price before they come to their senses."  He said it was worth about 7k and told me to go back to their competitor that I got a great deal, so I assume he wasn't laying.  Basically saying, its my job to beat them, but they put your car way to high I advise you to take their offer ASAP.  THe Carmax offer is $1,000 over blue book.

So my question, all dealers match Carmax.  But if this apprasial is really a gift, im sure they will say they are matching it, but just have to not give me a good price on the vehicle, therfore really muddying the negotiations.  So if they would normally go as low as 15k on a new elantra, maybe they will keep my price at 16k.

Would you just sell the car to carmax, or take it to dealers and have them match it, but know they probably will then not budge or give you their true lowest price on the car since they have to pay me too much for mine?  If I sell it to carmax, i lose out on about $500 tax savings if i trade it into the dealer I sell it. 

How the hell would you approach this?  I just am worried dealers are going to know i expect them to match carmax, so Im almost expecting them not to budge much on the Elantra.  TrueCar has the new Elantra I want to buy at about $15.5k.

 

  Negotiate the price of the new purchase independent of the trade-in. Dont mention the trade-in when doing that. As much as the salesperson would like to muddy the water, they are really two separate transactions.

Then, if they match/beat carmax, sell it to them as trade-in. Else, go back to carmax and sell it to them.

why not shop around and sell it to the dealer that offers highest IF IT IS MORE or WITHIN $500 of Carmax's offer.

You already negotiated the price of the car via TrueCar, OP, so I'm failing to see the issue here.

I am aware of what the truecar.com price is.  I didn't plan on just taking the true car price in and saying "match this and you have a deal."  I wanted to get lower, if possible.

Also, if the appraisal too generous, they might not match truecar.come pricing, and my appraisal both.

I guess what one person said might be best.  Negotiate the price of the new car, then throw in my appraisal.  If they say "we can't match that appraisal and give you this new car price" then i have two options...

1.  Accept the new car price, and see if they will give me $8k on the trade in.
2. Just tell them forget any trade in, ill buy the car and take my car to carmax to sell at $8.5k

Since the tax savings in my state is about $500, it looks like #1 and #2 will result in the exact same thing for me

Just seeing others thoughts on how i should handle this

Sell it to carmax if it's such a great deal. Why muddy the waters ? Take the 8.5k, go negotiate a great deal on the car you want...

Sounds like you have a good gameplan. The only thing I'd add is to try to get 2 or more dealers to work against each other for your purchase price. Then throw the trade in at either one.

Also good job on being reasonable with your purchases. Has been a while since we had a person buying a $16k car with $8k+ down. I was expecting you to be buying a $64k truck or something.

yup...i agree

Stubtify said:   Sounds like you have a good gameplan. The only thing I'd add is to try to get 2 or more dealers to work against each other for your purchase price. Then throw the trade in at either one.

Also good job on being reasonable with your purchases. Has been a while since we had a person buying a $16k car with $8k+ down. I was expecting you to be buying a $64k truck or something.

  
Probably trading his car in on a "Quad" that he won't think about selling cuz he doesn't smoke or drink... 

cme4oil said:   Sell it to carmax if it's such a great deal. Why muddy the waters ? Take the 8.5k, go negotiate a great deal on the car you want...
  The more complex the deal, the more ways you can get screwed and not realize it. A car dealer will value cash more then a trade-in. So will you.

The only thing I say is, see if you can SELL it to a place which has a guarantee that they beat CarMax. Also, if you worked there, just call one of your buddies and ask what is the min and max range of the car price. I'm actually not sure why you wouldn't know this already if you worked there.

vansville said:   I am aware of what the truecar.com price is.  I didn't plan on just taking the true car price in and saying "match this and you have a deal."  I wanted to get lower, if possible.

Also, if the appraisal too generous, they might not match truecar.come pricing, and my appraisal both.

I guess what one person said might be best.  Negotiate the price of the new car, then throw in my appraisal.  If they say "we can't match that appraisal and give you this new car price" then i have two options...

1.  Accept the new car price, and see if they will give me $8k on the trade in.
2. Just tell them forget any trade in, ill buy the car and take my car to carmax to sell at $8.5k

Since the tax savings in my state is about $500, it looks like #1 and #2 will result in the exact same thing for me

Just seeing others thoughts on how i should handle this

  Once you manage to get 8.5k (or more with tax benefit), make sure to thank your buddy well. At least a good dinner or picking up a bar tab.

I feel like but haven't given you red.

How the heck could you have worked for Carmax & not know how to do this?

vansville said:   How would you handle this?

I got my car appraised at carmax, for 8.5k. I used to work for these guys, and im pretty sure my former work friend gave me the max amount he could, really hooked me up.  I then took my apprasial to a different company that supposedly almost always beats carmax (they have people standing outside carmax holding signs saying see us after them). I showed him the carmax apprasial, he walked out looked at my car for 5 mins (A kia forte) and came back and told me "Do not let that apprasial expire, sell it to them at that price before they come to their senses."  He said it was worth about 7k and told me to go back to their competitor that I got a great deal, so I assume he wasn't laying.  Basically saying, its my job to beat them, but they put your car way to high I advise you to take their offer ASAP.  THe Carmax offer is $1,000 over blue book.

So my question, all dealers match Carmax.  But if this apprasial is really a gift, im sure they will say they are matching it, but just have to not give me a good price on the vehicle, therfore really muddying the negotiations.  So if they would normally go as low as 15k on a new elantra, maybe they will keep my price at 16k.

Would you just sell the car to carmax, or take it to dealers and have them match it, but know they probably will then not budge or give you their true lowest price on the car since they have to pay me too much for mine?  If I sell it to carmax, i lose out on about $500 tax savings if i trade it into the dealer I sell it. 

How the hell would you approach this?  I just am worried dealers are going to know i expect them to match carmax, so Im almost expecting them not to budge much on the Elantra.  TrueCar has the new Elantra I want to buy at about $15.5k.

 

  
i think it is typical bs sales guys do .. they can't beat a price .. so they tell you - don't let the other hot deal go away - that's way way good deal, and you should grab it while you can.

Did you try selling it through carig list ... i sold two recently - much more than dealer offer.  Didn't try carmax as it is very long drive.

If it is that far above book make sure it doesn't burn your buddy.

Know how to do what?  I worked in the buyers office, so i know a little about how they appraise cars.  If eitehr goes to the auction, or they can sell it on their lot.  Working at carmax gives me no idea how traditional dealers will try and match an appraisal.  My guess

Say my car is worth about 7.5k

Say the lowest the dealer will sell an elantra (no trade in for arguments sake) is $15.5k

Say they actually believe my car to be worth $7.5k.  They will then offer me $7.5k for my car, they will go as low as $15.6k on the new car, and will not budge on either as that is their best deal.

Now say I have a carmax appraisial that says its worth $8.5k.  Well now they say they will match it (all deales claim this), so they do, but now they will only go down to $16.5k on the new car, because they have to recoup that extra $1k they are offering me for my car, that its not worth.  

THis is why I was asking, does everyone agree this is how they will play it?

Thanks for all the replies.  It will suck to lose the $500 tax credit i will get if i trade it in.  But like some of you said, the negitioans could get really stragne if I trade it in and they have to match the price, and they will have chances to screw me.  

On a site note, with truecar giving an elantra a value of about $15.8k, what would you guys set as a Target price?  Think they will just let me walk away if I ask for $15.3 or so? I have sent out a number of emails like the car buying thread says, asking dealers for their best price (even ones far away).  THe lowest I have got is $16k, which is actually higher than truecar.  Maybe I should mention truecar in my email since they are not taking me serious? 

vansville said:   Know how to do what?  I worked in the buyers office, so i know a little about how they appraise cars.  If eitehr goes to the auction, or they can sell it on their lot.  Working at carmax gives me no idea how traditional dealers will try and match an appraisal.  My guess

Say my car is worth about 7.5k

Say the lowest the dealer will sell an elantra (no trade in for arguments sake) is $15.5k

Say they actually believe my car to be worth $7.5k.  They will then offer me $7.5k for my car, they will go as low as $15.6k on the new car, and will not budge on either as that is their best deal.

Now say I have a carmax appraisial that says its worth $8.5k.  Well now they say they will match it (all deales claim this), so they do, but now they will only go down to $16.5k on the new car, because they have to recoup that extra $1k they are offering me for my car, that its not worth.  

THis is why I was asking, does everyone agree this is how they will play it?

Thanks for all the replies.  It will suck to lose the $500 tax credit i will get if i trade it in.  But like some of you said, the negitioans could get really stragne if I trade it in and they have to match the price, and they will have chances to screw me.  

On a site note, with truecar giving an elantra a value of about $15.8k, what would you guys set as a Target price?  Think they will just let me walk away if I ask for $15.3 or so? I have sent out a number of emails like the car buying thread says, asking dealers for their best price (even ones far away).  THe lowest I have got is $16k, which is actually higher than truecar.  Maybe I should mention truecar in my email since they are not taking me serious? 

  Buying the new car and selling the old car must be treated as separate transactions. Negotiate a final price for the new car. Then, and only then, deal with the trade in value.

Either they'll match the Carmax quote or they won't at that point. It's your job to decide how much of price difference is worth selling to Carmax vs. trading in.

Compare apples to apples. Not sure how Hyundai does it but remember port added options and whatever will affect the price of a car. Look at invoice and negotiate based on that. If the car has additional options, make sure you know the invoice price of all of them. And don't let them add "dealer added" crap like under car protection, window etching or whatever.

Put the car on craigslist for $500 over the carmax appraisal. If you don't sell it by the expiration of the appraisal, sell it to carmax.

Work your deal with the dealers with cash in your pocket, not a used car. Or at least don't spring a trade-in on the dealer AFTER you negotiate a price. If I was a dealer, I would probably hate it when people do that.

The only reason to combine selling the old car and buying the new one into a single transaction would be if you're in a state (most of them) where the sales tax you pay on your new car is charged on your net payment. So, if you sell your old car for $12k at CarMax, and then buy your new car at Bob's Chevy for $20k, you'll pay tax on $20k. If you trade in your old car to Bob's Chevy, and add $8k in cash, to buy the $20k car, you'll only pay tax on the $8k.

http://finance.zacks.com/calculating-sales-tax-new-car-purchase-...

cestmoi123 said:   The only reason to combine selling the old car and buying the new one into a single transaction would be if you're in a state (most of them) where the sales tax you pay on your new car is charged on your net payment. So, if you sell your old car for $12k at CarMax, and then buy your new car at Bob's Chevy for $20k, you'll pay tax on $20k. If you trade in your old car to Bob's Chevy, and add $8k in cash, to buy the $20k car, you'll only pay tax on the $8k.

http://finance.zacks.com/calculating-sales-tax-new-car-purchase-...

OP implied that he is indeed in such a state in this post:
vansville said:   It will suck to lose the $500 tax credit i will get if i trade it in.
 

 

dcwilbur said:   
cestmoi123 said:   The only reason to combine selling the old car and buying the new one into a single transaction would be if you're in a state (most of them) where the sales tax you pay on your new car is charged on your net payment. So, if you sell your old car for $12k at CarMax, and then buy your new car at Bob's Chevy for $20k, you'll pay tax on $20k. If you trade in your old car to Bob's Chevy, and add $8k in cash, to buy the $20k car, you'll only pay tax on the $8k.

http://finance.zacks.com/calculating-sales-tax-new-car-purchase-...

OP implied that he is indeed in such a state in this post:
vansville said:   It will suck to lose the $500 tax credit i will get if i trade it in.

  Missed that, good catch. 

Bottom line, the OP needs to look at the total net cost.  Money's fungible - there's no difference between getting $500 more for your trade and paying $500 less in taxes. 

I traded in a car last year.  I had a Carmax appraisal for $14k and the dealer says, "oh, yeah, we'll match that."  Then when I get the paperwork to review, he had deduced $840 from that amount, you know, "so that it would come out the same with the tax credit that you'll get."  He actually said that! 

Yeah, they'll try anything.

 

dcwilbur said:   I traded in a car last year.  I had a Carmax appraisal for $14k and the dealer says, "oh, yeah, we'll match that."  Then when I get the paperwork to review, he had deduced $840 from that amount, you know, "so that it would come out the same with the tax credit that you'll get."  He actually said that! 

Yeah, they'll try anything.

 

  It's not an absurd position - you'd get the same net amount for your car as you would be selling it at CarMax, so, he did match the deal.  Trading it in creates value through tax savings - how that value gets split up between the buyer and seller is a matter for negotiation. 

Are you getting 0% interest on the new car? You would need excellent credit to do so.

If so, just negotiate the price of the car..as low as you can. Buy at 0% with no money down, if you can afford it, and invest the 8.5k.

cestmoi123 said:   
dcwilbur said:   I traded in a car last year.  I had a Carmax appraisal for $14k and the dealer says, "oh, yeah, we'll match that."  Then when I get the paperwork to review, he had deduced $840 from that amount, you know, "so that it would come out the same with the tax credit that you'll get."  He actually said that! 

Yeah, they'll try anything.

 

  It's not an absurd position - you'd get the same net amount for your car as you would be selling it at CarMax, so, he did match the deal.  Trading it in creates value through tax savings - how that value gets split up between the buyer and seller is a matter for negotiation. 

Two points though - one, they are not in fact matching the Carmax deal, so it's a bit disingenuous at best.  Two, I had already negotiated the sales price (before trade), so by structuring the deal so that it "would all come out the same" for me, they were actually trying to add $840 to their bottom line.  I wasn't going to let them get away with it.  Either my trade in was worth $14k or it wasn't.  Don't play games with me.
 

dcwilbur said:   
cestmoi123 said:   
dcwilbur said:   I traded in a car last year.  I had a Carmax appraisal for $14k and the dealer says, "oh, yeah, we'll match that."  Then when I get the paperwork to review, he had deduced $840 from that amount, you know, "so that it would come out the same with the tax credit that you'll get."  He actually said that! 

Yeah, they'll try anything.

 

  It's not an absurd position - you'd get the same net amount for your car as you would be selling it at CarMax, so, he did match the deal.  Trading it in creates value through tax savings - how that value gets split up between the buyer and seller is a matter for negotiation. 

Two points though - one, they are not in fact matching the Carmax deal, so it's a bit disingenuous at best.  Two, I had already negotiated the sales price (before trade), so by structuring the deal so that it "would all come out the same" for me, they were actually trying to add $840 to their bottom line.  I wasn't going to let them get away with it.  Either my trade in was worth $14k or it wasn't.  Don't play games with me.

He was matching what CarMax was actually offering you.  Your car might have been worth $14k to CarMax, but that doesn't mean that it was worth $14k to you.  CarMax was going to hand you a check for $13,160.  He was willing to give you $13,160 in credit against your new car. 

Trading the car in creates $840 in value.  That value can only be created if you agree to trade in the car, and the dealer agrees to accept the trade-in.  I'm not surprised the dealer took the initial position that the created value should belong to them.  After all, you were no worse off trading it in than selling it to CarMax (slightly better, since it's less hassle than doing two separate transactions, etc.).  By the same token, I'm not surprised that you viewed that value as yours. 

Bottom line, I don't see it as unethical for the dealer to have done what they did - I also have absolutely no issue with your calling them on it.



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