dealers going $1,000 under true car

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I used the thread here on how to buy a new car, email the dealers, etc.

Results.  Truecar for a basic 2017 Elantra (has to be automatic) is about $15.9k

The best offers im getting are $15, and $14.8k.  Which is $16,600 OTD and $16,400 OTD (not sure what invoice is).  The lower of the two is a "test drive car", or what ive been told is a demo car, that has 250 miles on it.  And he also said the warranty started 4 months ago (so i guess i lose 4 months of the warranty).  Does this sound legit or shady?

Here are the breakdowns on the two offers, keeping in mind true car is $15,200 - $15900 in my area.  A state away or 50 miles south itis $16,250

msrp 19230
discount 1980
rebates 2250
subtotal-15000
doc and fees 579
tax 1052
otd 16606


selling price 19330
discount 30001
rebate 15000
14,829
fee 299
tax 997
non tax fee 279
otd 16404

Legit, or some BS to get me in the dealer?  How is one putting on so much rebates than the other?

 

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True.  And it's always a shame when the owner of the new car is already driving on a Mexican vacation when the finance g... (more)

NEDeals (Aug. 30, 2016 @ 10:25p) |

The idea is you have been driving it and thinking of it as "yours" so they call you back and try to push a worse sales c... (more)

RedWolfe01 (Aug. 30, 2016 @ 10:50p) |

Sounds like the YO YO clause. Edit: yo yo financing for car.

bankdealsrule (Sep. 05, 2016 @ 8:21a) |

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"Demo Car" = Loaner Car = It was registered to the dealership, therefor you would technically be the 2nd owner on the car.

Good info, he actually called it a "test drive car", a salesperson from another dealer called it a demo. Are there any drawbacks of being the second owner except having 250 miles? Does it affect the hyundai warranty at all? The dealer says no, but i never trust a dealer.

Really, the only drawback I see is once you're done you can't sell if as a 1 owner vehicle, meaning it becomes slightly less valuable, and no matter what they try to tell you, it will show up as 2nd owner.

Cool story bro. U have a gr8 blog.

vansville said:   Good info, he actually called it a "test drive car", a salesperson from another dealer called it a demo. Are there any drawbacks of being the second owner except having 250 miles? Does it affect the hyundai warranty at all? The dealer says no, but i never trust a dealer.
  It's a used car.  You are paying $1000 less for a used car.

forbin4040 said:   
vansville said:   Good info, he actually called it a "test drive car", a salesperson from another dealer called it a demo. Are there any drawbacks of being the second owner except having 250 miles? Does it affect the hyundai warranty at all? The dealer says no, but i never trust a dealer.
  It's a used car.  You are paying $1000 less for a used car.

  Where do you get $1k less?  It's all of $202 less.

vansville said:   
Legit, or some BS to get me in the dealer?  How is one putting on so much rebates than the other?

 

  The $750 difference in rebates is probably because the demo car isn't eligible for whatever the rebate is for.

Considering just these two options, you want the new car for $200 more.

How much have you already talked about the price?

I have barley talked about the price, i ust sent both dealers emails similar to the one posted on this site. Actually, the 16,600 one called and striaght up asked "can you beat $15,1500 vehicle price" if so email me at this email with the breakdown. That led to the $16,600 OTD price. I sent that to another dealer, who said they would beat it by $100.

As for the demo car, that just came from an email like the one posted on this site to dealers lettin them know all my info, rebates i can/can't get, and asking for a breakdown, along with telling them I am emaling many dealers.

Sounds like most guys here would pay the extra 200 to avoid buying a car with 250 miles. Im assuming it is still new and has the warranty, i think they sell used "hyundai certified" cars that actually have whats left of the 60,000 mile warranty. I guess the only drawback is I would be a second owner. I might call carmax tomorrow and ask them how this affects price if any when I trade it in in two years.

vansville said:   I have barley talked about the price, i ust sent both dealers emails similar to the one posted on this site. Actually, the 16,600 one called and striaght up asked "can you beat $15,1500 vehicle price" if so email me at this email with the breakdown. That led to the $16,600 OTD price. I sent that to another dealer, who said they would beat it by $100.

As for the demo car, that just came from an email like the one posted on this site to dealers lettin them know all my info, rebates i can/can't get, and asking for a breakdown, along with telling them I am emaling many dealers.

Sounds like most guys here would pay the extra 200 to avoid buying a car with 250 miles. Im assuming it is still new and has the warranty, i think they sell used "hyundai certified" cars that actually have whats left of the 60,000 mile warranty. I guess the only drawback is I would be a second owner. I might call carmax tomorrow and ask them how this affects price if any when I trade it in in two years.

  In my experience, carmax isn't interested in dealing with hypotheticals.

carmax is very customer oriented and care about their image (they have to look at how they price new and used cars). Buyers will talk to you if you have a question,,,now if you ask them how much your car is worth over the phone, they will say you need to bring it in.

vansville said:   Sounds like most guys here would pay the extra 200 to avoid buying a car with 250 miles. 
  Sure, because I don't want a barely broken-in car that hundreds of people have driven as hard as I drove it on my test drive.
On that note, when you do a test drive, pick one that's the wrong color.

Aside from that, in my mind even IRS redemption rates are almost $0.60/mile*, and the first few miles of a new car's life are far more valuable than the lifetime average.  Furthermore, 4 months is almost 10% of the bumper-to-bumper coverage, so even if you still get the 10yr/100k first-owner powertrain warranty you're giving up much more than $200 of value in my book.

*granted, depreciation is probably only 1/3 of that

good replies. i put 30k miles on a car a year, so i will be trading it in after 2 years (when the bumper to bumper is abou to expire). So i will have it no where near 5 years so in my case that isn't much of a concern.

My main concern, how did the 16.6k dealership give me $750 more in rebates? thats the one im thinking might have some BS in it, and when i come in, then it might not be a legit price.

Most dealers gave me an OTD price of 17.7k. It seems thats where they want to sell it. I have asked multiple dealers if they can beat hte 16.6 OTD and the responses im getting "we beat anything come in and talk to us" and "we can't beat that price" I guess when some start saying they can't beat it, its about as low as anyone is going to go.

vansville said:   Good info, he actually called it a "test drive car", a salesperson from another dealer called it a demo. Are there any drawbacks of being the second owner except having 250 miles? Does it affect the hyundai warranty at all? The dealer says no, but i never trust a dealer.
  In the world of Hyundai warranties, second owners only get the 5 year / 60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty, they loose the 10 year/100,000 mile power train warranty (non transferable).  If you do put 30,000 miles on a car a year, you'll be our of any kind of warranty by year 2. You might want that extra warranty, is the extra 40,000 miles worth the cost?  Also, I don't know about you, but when I test drive a car, I'm a lot less gentle with their demo then I would be with my own.  Those 250 miles won't have been the most gentile first 250 miles for a new car, engine, transmission, etc.
 

vansville said:   Good info, he actually called it a "test drive car", a salesperson from another dealer called it a demo. Are there any drawbacks of being the second owner except having 250 miles? Does it affect the hyundai warranty at all? The dealer says no, but i never trust a dealer.
  
It may not be registered even as a demo.  Depends on the state - my last motorcycle was untitled with 600 miles on it.  That particular warranty was based on purchase and not service dates so I got the full 3 year warranty.  (good thing too, already had an expensive repair)

They used the same bike for a demo for 2 years, as well.  

--

If it is titled then they need to add a factory extended warranty for me to be interested in it.  (CPO or similar)  And they know they are competing with new cars so they need to match the rebates as well even if its their money they do it with.

Most demos in NY aren't registered to the dealer. They just ride around with dealer plates. When it's sold, it's sold as "new" to the first "owner" with X number of miles. Often, the top salesmen at the dealership use the demos as their personal transportation for commuting to and from work. This is different than a loaner car, which needs regular plates and is technically considered a rental vehicle.

As others have pointed out, a true "demo" car be sold as new, I believe because they are often never registered (dealer plates) and therefore never titled. A service loaner is registered to be out on the road with tags, so it no longer "new".

It is important to figure out the true status, because as someone else pointed out, the 10/100k powertrain warranty only applies to the first owner. Used cars get the balance of the 5/60 bumper to bumper. It would warrant a significant discount over a comparable new car.

In addition to the email blast, I would do a search on cars dot com and consider a fairly wide search radius to find the best deal. (100 miles? 150 miles? or even farther-- sometimes it's even worth it to fly in and drive home) There are tons of cars on there WAY below truecar pricing for a lot of different models. I'm not sure this is true for Elantra but it's free to check.

DTASFAB said:   Most demos in NY aren't registered to the dealer. They just ride around with dealer plates. When it's sold, it's sold as "new" to the first "owner" with X number of miles. Often, the top salesmen at the dealership use the demos as their personal transportation for commuting to and from work. This is different than a loaner car, which needs regular plates and is technically considered a rental vehicle.
I've bought a couple of dealer demo cars in MA and I was the first person on the title. Like OP, the warranty started at the in-service date, not when I bought it.

ETA: I got a really good deal on the demos, better on a dollar & percentage basis than OP. So, OP, I would shop around or bargain harder.

You know I bet this situation occured to make the car 'Demo' with lots of miles

Johnny goes in the dealer.
Hello Sir, I would like to do an extended test drive with your car over the weekend, and I'm willing to pay RETAIL.
Dealer hurries and fills out the paperwork.

Monday Johnny comes in, and Dealer says 'Like the car? Ready for paperwork?' Johnny says 'No, the car sucks and here's the keys, I'm done with it'.
Dealer is sad, takes the car to the detailer, notices that it now has 250 miles and a ton of paper about Hotels in Vegas inside.
Dealer is pissed, but cannot do anything to Johnny because the dealer was stupid.
Manager says 'crap, we will have to sell this car with lots of miles, lets call it a 'Demo Car''

Note : This was a story told to me by the Service manager of my dealership, except 250 miles was 1000 miles.

Ended up buying the non demo, at 16,550 OTD. The other dealer went down to 16,300 OTD on the demo (turned out it had 500 miles) but would go no less.

Payments would have been 241 with the demo and ended up being 256 on the non demo. So im paying $15 more per month. The one i got it from has free oil changes for life which i calculated based on my miles is worth $13 per month over the 2 years ill own the car. So its about even. Downpayment was 3000 would have put that on either of them.

Hope i picked the right one

The "first owner" may still count as dealer even if not registered.
Sometimes when dealer starts using it as a demo they have to still register that fact for warranty, and therefore OP may be the "first titled owner" but as far as warranty goes still not first owner.

Even IF warranty allowed transfer of the 100k warranty, any dealer demo warranty usually starts on first use date by dealer, so if that was 3 months ago that's 3 months of warranty gone.

AverageGuy09 said:   In the world of Hyundai warranties, second owners only get the 5 year / 60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty, they loose the 10 year/100,000 mile power train warranty (non transferable).Does this apply to test cars ?

vansville said:   Ended up buying the non demo, at 16,550 OTD. The other dealer went down to 16,300 OTD on the demo (turned out it had 500 miles) but would go no less.

Payments would have been 241 with the demo and ended up being 256 on the non demo. So im paying $15 more per month. The one i got it from has free oil changes for life which i calculated based on my miles is worth $13 per month over the 2 years ill own the car. So its about even. Downpayment was 3000 would have put that on either of them.

Hope i picked the right one

  How many miles is the mfr interval for oil change on it? (Just curious).
My car's 10000miles or 12 mo with regular usage.  So over 95000 miles and 7 years it has cost me only approximately $150 total on dealer oil-changes (Mfr already provides every X oil change free if you sign up, another dealer in town sends out $5 or $10 oil change coupons), plus that includes me usually paying them to rotate the tires too just because its more convenient (~$40+couple $ fees+taxes for oil change/rotation/inspection).  So if I amortize that cost it's ~$20/yr for oil changes and rotations and if I apply an 8% opportunity cost it would be worth less to me up-front than $250 and that assumes I keep the car forever.

I am not picking on your deal, I'd probably pick the same out of the choices.  Just pointing out the dealers really are counting on people significantly overestimating the value of "free oil changes for life!" or "X years of free maintenance!"(which is often just X years of oil changes... because that's all modern reliable cars call for).  One other problem with being tied to the dealership is that dealership might be very pushy with fake maintenance items and service often based on "miles suggestions from manufacturer" that are less then 30% of the real suggestions from the manufacturer(like 4 of 5 I have gone to).  And then you get zero value out of the inspection and have to find your own mechanic to give an honest inspection and see if anything is actually wrong.  They usually do oil changes as a loss leader to push fake and profitable service work.

If I had free oil changes for life, I would have never had the motivation to start doing auto maintenance and repair myself. That would have ended up costing me big $$$.

I don't trust TrueCar...besides the name being stupid...how do we know they aren't back dealing with each other.

Bend3r said:   
vansville said:   Ended up buying the non demo, at 16,550 OTD. The other dealer went down to 16,300 OTD on the demo (turned out it had 500 miles) but would go no less.

Payments would have been 241 with the demo and ended up being 256 on the non demo. So im paying $15 more per month. The one i got it from has free oil changes for life which i calculated based on my miles is worth $13 per month over the 2 years ill own the car. So its about even. Downpayment was 3000 would have put that on either of them.

Hope i picked the right one
 

  How many miles is the mfr interval for oil change on it? (Just curious).
My car's 10000miles or 12 mo with regular usage.  So over 95000 miles and 7 years it has cost me only approximately $150 total on dealer oil-changes (Mfr already provides every X oil change free if you sign up, another dealer in town sends out $5 or $10 oil change coupons), plus that includes me usually paying them to rotate the tires too just because its more convenient (~$40+couple $ fees+taxes for oil change/rotation/inspection).  So if I amortize that cost it's ~$20/yr for oil changes and rotations and if I apply an 8% opportunity cost it would be worth less to me up-front than $250 and that assumes I keep the car forever.

I am not picking on your deal, I'd probably pick the same out of the choices.  Just pointing out the dealers really are counting on people significantly overestimating the value of "free oil changes for life!" or "X years of free maintenance!"(which is often just X years of oil changes... because that's all modern reliable cars call for).  One other problem with being tied to the dealership is that dealership might be very pushy with fake maintenance items and service often based on "miles suggestions from manufacturer" that are less then 30% of the real suggestions from the manufacturer(like 4 of 5 I have gone to).  And then you get zero value out of the inspection and have to find your own mechanic to give an honest inspection and see if anything is actually wrong.  They usually do oil changes as a loss leader to push fake and profitable service work.
 

  
Good info.  I calculated ahead of time.  I put 30k miles a year on a car, so will have this one for 2 years.  The interval is 7500 miles and the oil changes cost 40 at most dealers.  So the 2 years I own it before trading it in I will get 8 oil changes.  8x$40 = $320.  Most dealers offer 2, so $320-80 = $240.  240/24 months = $10 a month it looks like they are worth to me over the 2 years I will own the car before I trade it in as the 60k bumper to bumper warranty expires.  And the maintences are not free, just oil change.  Hopefully my math is correct lol

drew2money said:   I don't trust TrueCar...besides the name being stupid...how do we know they aren't back dealing with each other.
  On my Honda Accord purchase, I bought it at $2K (~10% of the purchase price) under the TrueCar price.  The dealers even proposed a lower price without request on their followup.  I am frightened if people are using TrueCar as their only method of negotiation or as the only comparison data point.   

bpp said:   
  I am frightened if people are using TrueCar as their only method of negotiation or as the only comparison data point.   

 
The last couple of cars I bought, I used TrueCar (from a variety of ZIP codes) as a starting point on my research, and then did what research I could to find out the dealer "holdback" on the models I was interested in.

It wouldn't surprise me if the real cost to dealers was lower than "invoice - holdback + delivery", but that is SUPPOSEDLY what they pay as their baseline cost.
Then, in my area, they inflate their profit with an exorbitant "document processing fee", which really just represents another $500 of wiggle room in the above equation.

Deduct from those numbers any manufacturer incentives, and SUPPOSEDLY the only unknown would be behind-the-scenes incentives between the manufacturer and the individual dealerships.

I haven't seen any resources for finding reliable information on those, though.


With any given dealership, though, you have no idea what their situation is in terms of needing to liquidate specific vehicles and get them off the lot at a possible (or at least apparent) loss.


So I don't think TrueCar is any kind of end-all-be-all, but it is definitely a helpful starting point to see a bunch of dealerships in one blast, to see where many of their negotiations will start.

arch8ngel said:   
bpp said:   
  I am frightened if people are using TrueCar as their only method of negotiation or as the only comparison data point.   

 
The last couple of cars I bought, I used TrueCar (from a variety of ZIP codes) as a starting point on my research, and then did what research I could to find out the dealer "holdback" on the models I was interested in.

It wouldn't surprise me if the real cost to dealers was lower than "invoice - holdback + delivery", but that is SUPPOSEDLY what they pay as their baseline cost.

 

  
You never really know what the sales profit is on the car, because dealers get additional incentive money at the end of year/quarter/month based on how many cars sold, sales revenue, etc. 

You could get decent prices with TrueCar under their old model before 2012.  The new model (a result of dealer lawsuits and attorneys general sticking up for dealers) is much less advantageous for consumers.  Some states (MD) regulate document processing fees with caps, many states require they be charged equally to all sales.  Just be sure to negotiate a price that includes all of the extras. 

NEDeals said:   

  
You never really know what the sales profit is on the car, because dealers get additional incentive money at the end of year/quarter/month based on how many cars sold, sales revenue, etc. 

...

Some states (MD) regulate document processing fees with caps, many states require they be charged equally to all sales.  Just be sure to negotiate a price that includes all of the extras. 
 

  
Exactly, you can't really know that data, reliably, and it is going to vary from dealer to dealer and what volume they do, etc.

But with the other available data, you can at least get a rough idea of a starting point.


VA is in the latter category on doc fees.  The "have to charge it to everybody"... but of course they can afford to discount the price by that amount, as well.

salesperson texted, they spelled my name "greg" instead of "Gregory" on the contract, and the bank wont take it. Would you guys go in and sign it? Or go through the trouble of trying to not sign it, and go back and buy the demo? I did put 3k downpayment on my card (might take too long to ever get that back to be without a car), i dont have another 3k sitting around. its also registered and tagged, not sure how this all affects anything.

But the contract is invalid,,,it was an ugly negitioation,,,would they just want to back out if i asked to back out and take their car back?

vansville said:   salesperson texted, they spelled my name "greg" instead of "Gregory" on the contract, and the bank wont take it. Would you guys go in and sign it? Or go through the trouble of trying to not sign it, and go back and buy the demo? I did put 3k downpayment on my card (might take too long to ever get that back to be without a car), i dont have another 3k sitting around. its also registered and tagged, not sure how this all affects anything.

But the contract is invalid,,,it was an ugly negitioation,,,would they just want to back out if i asked to back out and take their car back?

  Ugly negotiation?  The OTD price was all of $56 less that the first quote they gave you?  Things don't get ugly over fifty bucks.

I don't buy that the bank refused a loan simply because of a name "discrepency" like that.

thats what the dealer said on the phone...i called and asked a competing hyundai dealer,,,and they agreed with you,,they said since i made the deal sat,,the bank wouldn't get back to them that quick,,likely the dealership just caught it,,,who knows

as to the negotiation,,,they told me "go buy the car from them" three times,,,teh third time i left,,then they called me back. then they acted as if when they delivered the intereest rate to me,,,,,i had to decide right there "the finance pople have tons of customers to get to, if you dont say yes were done",,,,,,they were pissed i believe that i emailed all dealers and came to them with a price to beat,,,,but anyway,,,do you guys think if i say forget it i dont want it,,they will let it go? i put 150 miles on the car

You signed a contract, you paid a down payment, they gave you the car?
Sounds like a done deal to me.

Any escape clause in the contract to let them back out of the deal if they can't sell the loan?
If so, can you just go and get yourself a loan and pay them for the car without signing anything else?

not sure what your saying,,,your saying in essence that my 3k down payment i can say i paid that for the car, refuse to sign anything else,,,and they can't legally enforce the loan or take the car back?

gwillison said:   
Bend3r said:   
vansville said:   Ended up buying the non demo, at 16,550 OTD. The other dealer went down to 16,300 OTD on the demo (turned out it had 500 miles) but would go no less.

Payments would have been 241 with the demo and ended up being 256 on the non demo. So im paying $15 more per month. The one i got it from has free oil changes for life which i calculated based on my miles is worth $13 per month over the 2 years ill own the car. So its about even. Downpayment was 3000 would have put that on either of them.

Hope i picked the right one

  How many miles is the mfr interval for oil change on it? (Just curious).
My car's 10000miles or 12 mo with regular usage.  So over 95000 miles and 7 years it has cost me only approximately $150 total on dealer oil-changes (Mfr already provides every X oil change free if you sign up, another dealer in town sends out $5 or $10 oil change coupons), plus that includes me usually paying them to rotate the tires too just because its more convenient (~$40+couple $ fees+taxes for oil change/rotation/inspection).  So if I amortize that cost it's ~$20/yr for oil changes and rotations and if I apply an 8% opportunity cost it would be worth less to me up-front than $250 and that assumes I keep the car forever.

I am not picking on your deal, I'd probably pick the same out of the choices.  Just pointing out the dealers really are counting on people significantly overestimating the value of "free oil changes for life!" or "X years of free maintenance!"(which is often just X years of oil changes... because that's all modern reliable cars call for).  One other problem with being tied to the dealership is that dealership might be very pushy with fake maintenance items and service often based on "miles suggestions from manufacturer" that are less then 30% of the real suggestions from the manufacturer(like 4 of 5 I have gone to).  And then you get zero value out of the inspection and have to find your own mechanic to give an honest inspection and see if anything is actually wrong.  They usually do oil changes as a loss leader to push fake and profitable service work.

  
Good info.  I calculated ahead of time.  I put 30k miles a year on a car, so will have this one for 2 years.  The interval is 7500 miles and the oil changes cost 40 at most dealers.  So the 2 years I own it before trading it in I will get 8 oil changes.  8x$40 = $320.  Most dealers offer 2, so $320-80 = $240.  240/24 months = $10 a month it looks like they are worth to me over the 2 years I will own the car before I trade it in as the 60k bumper to bumper warranty expires.  And the maintences are not free, just oil change.  Hopefully my math is correct lol

  
That isn't how included/pre-paid service plans work.  I had one on a Land Rover, and it included a set number of service visits.  Basically they assumed every 6 months or 6000 miles it would need service.  4 years was 8 service visits, and that was how many were included.  (I was the second owner so only got the last 4)

They did include a rental/loaner and everything on the maintenance schedule though.  

vansville said:   salesperson texted, they spelled my name "greg" instead of "Gregory" on the contract, and the bank wont take it. Would you guys go in and sign it? Or go through the trouble of trying to not sign it, and go back and buy the demo? I did put 3k downpayment on my card (might take too long to ever get that back to be without a car), i dont have another 3k sitting around. its also registered and tagged, not sure how this all affects anything.

But the contract is invalid,,,it was an ugly negitioation,,,would they just want to back out if i asked to back out and take their car back?

  
Common dealer tactic, they are trying to renegotiate the deal.  Tell them to send you the corrected document by mail (or scan) and you will mail it back.

gwillison said:   
Bend3r said:   
vansville said:   Ended up buying the non demo, at 16,550 OTD. The other dealer went down to 16,300 OTD on the demo (turned out it had 500 miles) but would go no less.

Payments would have been 241 with the demo and ended up being 256 on the non demo. So im paying $15 more per month. The one i got it from has free oil changes for life which i calculated based on my miles is worth $13 per month over the 2 years ill own the car. So its about even. Downpayment was 3000 would have put that on either of them.

Hope i picked the right one

  How many miles is the mfr interval for oil change on it? (Just curious).
My car's 10000miles or 12 mo with regular usage.  So over 95000 miles and 7 years it has cost me only approximately $150 total on dealer oil-changes (Mfr already provides every X oil change free if you sign up, another dealer in town sends out $5 or $10 oil change coupons), plus that includes me usually paying them to rotate the tires too just because its more convenient (~$40+couple $ fees+taxes for oil change/rotation/inspection).  So if I amortize that cost it's ~$20/yr for oil changes and rotations and if I apply an 8% opportunity cost it would be worth less to me up-front than $250 and that assumes I keep the car forever.

I am not picking on your deal, I'd probably pick the same out of the choices.  Just pointing out the dealers really are counting on people significantly overestimating the value of "free oil changes for life!" or "X years of free maintenance!"(which is often just X years of oil changes... because that's all modern reliable cars call for).  One other problem with being tied to the dealership is that dealership might be very pushy with fake maintenance items and service often based on "miles suggestions from manufacturer" that are less then 30% of the real suggestions from the manufacturer(like 4 of 5 I have gone to).  And then you get zero value out of the inspection and have to find your own mechanic to give an honest inspection and see if anything is actually wrong.  They usually do oil changes as a loss leader to push fake and profitable service work.

  
Good info.  I calculated ahead of time.  I put 30k miles a year on a car, so will have this one for 2 years.  The interval is 7500 miles and the oil changes cost 40 at most dealers.  So the 2 years I own it before trading it in I will get 8 oil changes.  8x$40 = $320.  Most dealers offer 2, so $320-80 = $240.  240/24 months = $10 a month it looks like they are worth to me over the 2 years I will own the car before I trade it in as the 60k bumper to bumper warranty expires.  And the maintences are not free, just oil change.  Hopefully my math is correct lol

  I knew this was also you. Why so many IDs?

Skipping 6 Messages...
NEDeals said:   
Revike said:   Don't many of these purchase contracts have fine print that make the sale contingent upon the financing being approved and finalized?
  
True.  And it's always a shame when the owner of the new car is already driving on a Mexican vacation when the finance glitches arise back at the dealer....

 Sounds like the YO YO clause. Edit: yo yo financing for car.



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