Diminished Value in a hit-and-run?

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Vehicle: 2016 Toyota Tacoma, 10 months old, 23K miles.  Approximate value $32K. 

State: CO

Insurance: Geico

Someone backed into my truck in a parking lot and did not leave a note.  The damage was significant enough that I filed a claim with my insurance, Geico.  I took it in for an estimate and repair this morning and the shop said that the right panel on the bed will end up being replaced on the truck.  I will pay the deductible ($500) and Geico will pay the rest.  Is it worth pursuing a diminished value claim in this instance?  If so, how do I go about doing it?  I want to make sure I don't inadvertently waive my right to DV during the repair process, etc.  If DV is not likely to be significant in this situation, I will likely let it go.  Thanks for any feedback!

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When did this forum become so obsessed with the concept of diminished value?  I thought everyone here bought vehicles (whether new or used) and drove them forever?  How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?

check your policy. Its not likely to be covered

dcwilbur said:   When did this forum become so obsessed with the concept of diminished value?  I thought everyone here bought vehicles (whether new or used) and drove them forever?  How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?
  
We have threads that are dozens of pages long describing the intricacies of charging less than $1 and figuring out how to get the company to cancel your balance.  And no, it's not worth less in terms of utility, but at some point, I'm likely to sell it -- even if that's way down the road. 

A hit-and-run is typically a first-party claim on your collision coverage. If you can identify the other person, it turns into a third party claim, whether your insurance company subrogates or charges it against your un/under-insured policy.

I don't think a DV claim against your policy will help you in the long run. Probably pretty minimal money too.

dcwilbur said:   When did this forum become so obsessed with the concept of diminished value?  I thought everyone here bought vehicles (whether new or used) and drove them forever?  How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?
DV is still usually recoverable (as long as there is an at-fault party you can recover from) even if you don't plan on selling your vehicle, in which case DV is free money.

FWF folks tend to like free money.

What about writing it off on your taxes?

Take pictures of the damage (including underneath/chassis/frame) so that you can show a future seller that it was insignificant. This will help reduce diminished value.

dcwilbur said:   How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?
  Body and especially paintwork at a BodyShop will never be as good as the original paint applied at the factory under controlled conditions by precision robots. In five years the paint will have faded to a different shade and maybe the clearcoat will start peeling.

atikovi said:   
dcwilbur said:   How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?
  Body and especially paintwork at a BodyShop will never be as good as the original paint applied at the factory under controlled conditions by precision robots. In five years the paint will have faded to a different shade and maybe the clearcoat will start peeling.

First, find a different Body Shop.  That's not my experience at all.

Second, even if true, that doesn't diminish my ability to get where I need to go.  There's no diminished utility, thus, no diminished value.  Cars are consumables, not investments.

To the "free money" comment above, please tell me you don't really believe that. 

Why did you file it with your insurance company? The right Body Shop wouldn't even file this and would never show up on a carfax.

I had a G37 Coupe a few years ago and had a similar incident. It was a bumper ding. I called a Body Shop, paid cash and he fixed it. Never showed on the carfax. It cost $800 to fix compared to my $1k deductible, but no lost value.

RailroadTrack said:   Why did you file it with your insurance company? The right Body Shop wouldn't even file this and would never show up on a carfax.

I had a G37 Coupe a few years ago and had a similar incident. It was a bumper ding. I called a Body Shop, paid cash and he fixed it. Never showed on the carfax. It cost $800 to fix compared to my $1k deductible, but no lost value.

  
That's the proper way.

dcwilbur said:   
atikovi said:   
dcwilbur said:   How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?
  Body and especially paintwork at a BodyShop will never be as good as the original paint applied at the factory under controlled conditions by precision robots. In five years the paint will have faded to a different shade and maybe the clearcoat will start peeling.

First, find a different Body Shop.  That's not my experience at all.

Second, even if true, that doesn't diminish my ability to get where I need to go.  There's no diminished utility, thus, no diminished value.  Cars are consumables, not investments.

To the "free money" comment above, please tell me you don't really believe that. 

  Maybe not if it's a 20 year old beater when you sell it, but if it's a later model, you can bet the buyer will pay less if he sees paintwork on an otherwise nice car.

Posted in wrong forum. Delete

RailroadTrack said:   Why did you file it with your insurance company? The right Body Shop wouldn't even file this and would never show up on a carfax.

I had a G37 Coupe a few years ago and had a similar incident. It was a bumper ding. I called a Body Shop, paid cash and he fixed it. Never showed on the carfax. It cost $800 to fix compared to my $1k deductible, but no lost value.

Same thing happened to me, but I also smashed a tail light fixture.  Needed a whole new bumper cover and light, and the rear quarter panel had to be bent into proper shape.  No claim, paid cash to Body Shop, problem fixed, no carfax report.  Paintwork is good enough that I can see the difference only because I know where to look for it.  The only thing a buyer might notice is the gap on the horizontal line that divides the bumper from the quarter panel is wider on one side than on the other.  Most car buyers aren't that meticulous.

drew2money said:   What about writing it off on your taxes?
  how does one write off the loss of personal property on their taxes? 

I take a pretty dim view of DV too. It's free money only in the myopic sense of a single wreck, but the more people pursue it, everyone's premiums go up due not only to the payouts but also due to the costs to argue over the appropriate amount of the payouts.

It's not truly a realized loss until the vehicle is sold (and if significant time elapses between the repair and the sale, the value on which the DV was based will be inflated). It's a logistical burden on the system and I really think it constitutes unjust enrichment in the vast majority of circumstances.

If Geico approximates your vehicle after repair to be higher than it was before the hit since you've got some brand new parts in the car. 

Your old parts could be blemished, scratched, and abused, and replaced with brand new one.

Should you write them a check?

 

atikovi said:   
dcwilbur said:   How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?
  Body and especially paintwork at a BodyShop will never be as good as the original paint applied at the factory under controlled conditions by precision robots. In five years the paint will have faded to a different shade and maybe the clearcoat will start peeling.

  Nonsense.

drobins9 said:     Nonsense.
Nonsense on the peeling/fading, but not nonsense on not matching factory quality. A auto body repair shop does not match the technology in modern vehicle manufacturing plants. (There's various levels of QA such as hi-res photos to look for any defects in paint, for a minor example) The factory is making the vehicle all day long and they are obviously experts rather than a one-off repair on that vehicle type for the Body Shop. Colors are also around 0% chance of matching perfectly on repair, unless they repaint the whole car the slightly different new color.

rufflesinc said:   
drew2money said:   What about writing it off on your taxes?
  how does one write off the loss of personal property on their taxes? 

  But they do because they're the ones writing it off.

Bend3r said:   
  More than that, they use robots.  Body shops use humans.  Robots paint better than humans.

rufflesinc said:   
drew2money said:   What about writing it off on your taxes?
  how does one write off the loss of personal property on their taxes? 

  I'm skipping a few details, but first you must itemize and then you need to subtract 10% of your adjusted gross income from your loss to calculate your deduction.

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc515.html

dcwilbur said:   When did this forum become so obsessed with the concept of diminished value?  I thought everyone here bought vehicles (whether new or used) and drove them forever?  How is a repaired vehicle worth less (in terms of utility) than the one you were driving before the accident?
  Worth less in a later accident/claim? What if you need to sell/trade for some reason?  

jagec said:   
Bend3r said:   
 

  More than that, they use robots.  Body shops use humans.  Robots paint better than humans.

  This is how Sky Net starts.

saladdin said:   
jagec said:   
Bend3r said:   
 

  More than that, they use robots.  Body shops use humans.  Robots paint better than humans.

  This is how Sky Net starts.

  Already started.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-pushing-tesla-hard-11300...

Lost in all of this so far is any real world experience about what a payout would presumably look like. Assume I am a horrible person who thinks that I pay insurance for a reason and if I am insured against DV and I now have a DV claim I should file it -- what is my possible recovery based on what I outlined above? If it's $200 and I have to do lots of leg work and potentially get rate-jacked, then I won't pursue it. If it's $5000, then it's probably worth doing. Anyone have any actual experience with this?

ltcm said:   Lost in all of this so far is any real world experience about what a payout would presumably look like. Assume I am a horrible person who thinks that I pay insurance for a reason and if I am insured against DV and I now have a DV claim I should file it -- what is my possible recovery based on what I outlined above? If it's $200 and I have to do lots of leg work and potentially get rate-jacked, then I won't pursue it. If it's $5000, then it's probably worth doing. Anyone have any actual experience with this?
With a hit-and-run your DV payout would be zero, since you can't make a DV claim against your own insurance company.

ellory said:   check your policy. Its not likely to be covered
  

ltcm said:   Vehicle: 2016 Toyota Tacoma, 10 months old, 23K miles.  Approximate value $32K. 

State: CO

Insurance: Geico 

Someone backed into my truck in a parking lot and did not leave a note.  The damage was significant enough that I filed a claim with my insurance, Geico.  I took it in for an estimate and repair this morning and the shop said that the right panel on the bed will end up being replaced on the truck.  I will pay the deductible ($500) and Geico will pay the rest.  Is it worth pursuing a diminished value claim in this instance?  If so, how do I go about doing it?  I want to make sure I don't inadvertently waive my right to DV during the repair process, etc.  If DV is not likely to be significant in this situation, I will likely let it go.  Thanks for any feedback!

  Sorry OP you are out of luck and you totally misunderstood the concept of Diminished value. Please read the following from my previous post
To file a diminished value claim, you have to show the insurance company three numbers 1) what is the market value of your vehicle before the accident (KBB, Carmax, dealership etc) 2) what is the market value after the accident? 3) what is the difference?

If you vehicle worth $10k, and you prove to the insurance company no one will buy your vehicle for $10k due to the major repair from an accident. Then you may file a claim to the insurance company for the difference. This is the money you have lost because of the accident. If the accident is minor, it does NOT affect the selling value of your car. Your vehicle's value has NOT been affected. You car still worth $10k after the repair, you don't get to make the BONUS money.


How did I find out?
I had two minor rear ended accident $2500 and $800 repairs. I was going to file Diminished Value claim to the other party's insurance. Went to Carmax, turns out none of those accident has been recorded or associated with my Vin#, and CarMax actually offer me higher than market value. Meaning my car's value has not been reduced due to the previous accidents 


wtfu said:   
ltcm said:   Vehicle: 2016 Toyota Tacoma, 10 months old, 23K miles.  Approximate value $32K. 

State: CO

Insurance: Geico 

Someone backed into my truck in a parking lot and did not leave a note.  The damage was significant enough that I filed a claim with my insurance, Geico.  I took it in for an estimate and repair this morning and the shop said that the right panel on the bed will end up being replaced on the truck.  I will pay the deductible ($500) and Geico will pay the rest.  Is it worth pursuing a diminished value claim in this instance?  If so, how do I go about doing it?  I want to make sure I don't inadvertently waive my right to DV during the repair process, etc.  If DV is not likely to be significant in this situation, I will likely let it go.  Thanks for any feedback!

  Sorry OP you are out of luck and you totally misunderstood the concept of Diminished value. Please read the following from my previous post

To file a diminished value claim, you have to show the insurance company three numbers 1) what is the market value of your vehicle before the accident (KBB, Carmax, dealership etc) 2) what is the market value after the accident? 3) what is the difference?

If you vehicle worth $10k, and you prove to the insurance company no one will buy your vehicle for $10k due to the major repair from an accident. Then you may file a claim to the insurance company for the difference. This is the money you have lost because of the accident. If the accident is minor, it does NOT affect the selling value of your car. Your vehicle's value has NOT been affected. You car still worth $10k after the repair, you don't get to make the BONUS money.


How did I find out?

I had two minor rear ended accident $2500 and $800 repairs. I was going to file Diminished Value claim to the other party's insurance. Went to Carmax, turns out none of those accident has been recorded or associated with my Vin#, and CarMax actually offer me higher than market value. Meaning my car's value has not been reduced due to the previous accidents 


  Where did the OP say he had repairs that aren't recorded or associated with the VIN?

BingBlangBlaow said:   wtfu said:   
ltcm said:   Vehicle: 2016 Toyota Tacoma, 10 months old, 23K miles.  Approximate value $32K. 

State: CO

Insurance: Geico 

Someone backed into my truck in a parking lot and did not leave a note.  The damage was significant enough that I filed a claim with my insurance, Geico.  I took it in for an estimate and repair this morning and the shop said that the right panel on the bed will end up being replaced on the truck.  I will pay the deductible ($500) and Geico will pay the rest.  Is it worth pursuing a diminished value claim in this instance?  If so, how do I go about doing it?  I want to make sure I don't inadvertently waive my right to DV during the repair process, etc.  If DV is not likely to be significant in this situation, I will likely let it go.  Thanks for any feedback!

  Sorry OP you are out of luck and you totally misunderstood the concept of Diminished value. Please read the following from my previous post

To file a diminished value claim, you have to show the insurance company three numbers 1) what is the market value of your vehicle before the accident (KBB, Carmax, dealership etc) 2) what is the market value after the accident? 3) what is the difference?

If you vehicle worth $10k, and you prove to the insurance company no one will buy your vehicle for $10k due to the major repair from an accident. Then you may file a claim to the insurance company for the difference. This is the money you have lost because of the accident. If the accident is minor, it does NOT affect the selling value of your car. Your vehicle's value has NOT been affected. You car still worth $10k after the repair, you don't get to make the BONUS money.


How did I find out?

I had two minor rear ended accident $2500 and $800 repairs. I was going to file Diminished Value claim to the other party's insurance. Went to Carmax, turns out none of those accident has been recorded or associated with my Vin#, and CarMax actually offer me higher than market value. Meaning my car's value has not been reduced due to the previous accidents 


  Where did the OP say he had repairs that aren't recorded or associated with the VIN?

You will not find any minor repair with your VIN numbers. Who do you think will keep record every time you change your lightbulb on your car?

BingBlangBlaow said:   wtfu said:   
ltcm said:   Vehicle: 2016 Toyota Tacoma, 10 months old, 23K miles.  Approximate value $32K. 

State: CO

Insurance: Geico 

Someone backed into my truck in a parking lot and did not leave a note.  The damage was significant enough that I filed a claim with my insurance, Geico.  I took it in for an estimate and repair this morning and the shop said that the right panel on the bed will end up being replaced on the truck.  I will pay the deductible ($500) and Geico will pay the rest.  Is it worth pursuing a diminished value claim in this instance?  If so, how do I go about doing it?  I want to make sure I don't inadvertently waive my right to DV during the repair process, etc.  If DV is not likely to be significant in this situation, I will likely let it go.  Thanks for any feedback!

  Sorry OP you are out of luck and you totally misunderstood the concept of Diminished value. Please read the following from my previous post

To file a diminished value claim, you have to show the insurance company three numbers 1) what is the market value of your vehicle before the accident (KBB, Carmax, dealership etc) 2) what is the market value after the accident? 3) what is the difference?

If you vehicle worth $10k, and you prove to the insurance company no one will buy your vehicle for $10k due to the major repair from an accident. Then you may file a claim to the insurance company for the difference. This is the money you have lost because of the accident. If the accident is minor, it does NOT affect the selling value of your car. Your vehicle's value has NOT been affected. You car still worth $10k after the repair, you don't get to make the BONUS money.


How did I find out?

I had two minor rear ended accident $2500 and $800 repairs. I was going to file Diminished Value claim to the other party's insurance. Went to Carmax, turns out none of those accident has been recorded or associated with my Vin#, and CarMax actually offer me higher than market value. Meaning my car's value has not been reduced due to the previous accidents 


  Where did the OP say he had repairs that aren't recorded or associated with the VIN?

You will not find any minor repair with your VIN numbers. Who do you think will keep record every time you change your lightbulb on your car?

wtfu said:   
You will not find any minor repair with your VIN numbers. Who do you think will keep record every time you change your lightbulb on your car?

Carfax.

https://www.carfax.com/phoenix/vehicle_history/SampleReport.cfx?reportName=accidentMultiOwner

jayK said:   
ltcm said:   Lost in all of this so far is any real world experience about what a payout would presumably look like. Assume I am a horrible person who thinks that I pay insurance for a reason and if I am insured against DV and I now have a DV claim I should file it -- what is my possible recovery based on what I outlined above? If it's $200 and I have to do lots of leg work and potentially get rate-jacked, then I won't pursue it. If it's $5000, then it's probably worth doing. Anyone have any actual experience with this?
With a hit-and-run your DV payout would be zero, since you can't make a DV claim against your own insurance company.

  Exactly. OP doesn't get it.

jaytrader said:   
jayK said:   
ltcm said:   Lost in all of this so far is any real world experience about what a payout would presumably look like. Assume I am a horrible person who thinks that I pay insurance for a reason and if I am insured against DV and I now have a DV claim I should file it -- what is my possible recovery based on what I outlined above? If it's $200 and I have to do lots of leg work and potentially get rate-jacked, then I won't pursue it. If it's $5000, then it's probably worth doing. Anyone have any actual experience with this?
With a hit-and-run your DV payout would be zero, since you can't make a DV claim against your own insurance company.

  Exactly. OP doesn't get it.

  

It's not that I didn't get it, I was not aware of that factoid until someone said it very clearly above.  The rest of this nonsense about the utility of the vehicle is irrelevant.  If you can't make a claim against your own insurer for DV, then I guess it's not going to happen.  To be fair, based on some subsequent research, it appears you can make a claim against your own insurer if the claim is filed as an uninsured motorist claim against your own insurer, but that's not the situation here.

I mean, isn't it kind of common sense? You expect hundreds of thousands of dollars, which could possibly be more than your premium, from your own insurance company for diminished value? They are paying for the repairs, which is what you have insurance for. Why should they further be shafted?

Example:
You pay premium: $1000/year
Your fault accident repair cost that your insurance pays: $5000
You claim diminished value from insurance: $1500

You've just made $500 on your premium for hitting something. No such thing as a free lunch, my friend.

wtfu said:   
BingBlangBlaow said:   
wtfu said:   
ltcm said:   Vehicle: 2016 Toyota Tacoma, 10 months old, 23K miles.  Approximate value $32K. 

State: CO

Insurance: Geico 

Someone backed into my truck in a parking lot and did not leave a note.  The damage was significant enough that I filed a claim with my insurance, Geico.  I took it in for an estimate and repair this morning and the shop said that the right panel on the bed will end up being replaced on the truck.  I will pay the deductible ($500) and Geico will pay the rest.  Is it worth pursuing a diminished value claim in this instance?  If so, how do I go about doing it?  I want to make sure I don't inadvertently waive my right to DV during the repair process, etc.  If DV is not likely to be significant in this situation, I will likely let it go.  Thanks for any feedback!

  Sorry OP you are out of luck and you totally misunderstood the concept of Diminished value. Please read the following from my previous post


To file a diminished value claim, you have to show the insurance company three numbers 1) what is the market value of your vehicle before the accident (KBB, Carmax, dealership etc) 2) what is the market value after the accident? 3) what is the difference?

If you vehicle worth $10k, and you prove to the insurance company no one will buy your vehicle for $10k due to the major repair from an accident. Then you may file a claim to the insurance company for the difference. This is the money you have lost because of the accident. If the accident is minor, it does NOT affect the selling value of your car. Your vehicle's value has NOT been affected. You car still worth $10k after the repair, you don't get to make the BONUS money.


How did I find out?


I had two minor rear ended accident $2500 and $800 repairs. I was going to file Diminished Value claim to the other party's insurance. Went to Carmax, turns out none of those accident has been recorded or associated with my Vin#, and CarMax actually offer me higher than market value. Meaning my car's value has not been reduced due to the previous accidents 


  Where did the OP say he had repairs that aren't recorded or associated with the VIN?

You will not find any minor repair with your VIN numbers. Who do you think will keep record every time you change your lightbulb on your car?

  The manufacturer.
Everything that is done at a dealership is in the VIN history.

Skipping 6 Messages...
sofocusednoenemy said:   Are you an attorney jayK? I remember you coming in the boards a while back but I don't remember you being an attorney. If you don't mind, I'm going to do as my actual attorney advises. Read some law journals about this. Things are very different on this topic now than they were a few years ago.
I'm not an attorney but I do have experience with DV claims, including representing myself in small claims court and doing a lot of research.

Which state are you in? According to this site there are several states that allow claims against your own uninsured coverage if the other party has no insurance, but I'm not sure how that would work if the DV number is less than the appraisal and they don't want to negotiate. Best of luck with your claim.
http://www.ican2000.com/dvfaqs.html



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