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So normally I would just post in this thread as a related comment and question but it's archived

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1492972 

I'm looking to purchasing an epic season ski pass (my first) and it says "If you do not accept pass insurance, you will not be eligible for a refund of any kind and understand that passes are non-transferable nor for re-sale."

Then in the link to the insurance it gives as an example of coverage "The resort closes indefinitely due to a natural disaster."

So putting two and two together, if the resort closes, no refund?

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Stubtify (Oct. 01, 2016 @ 10:52a) |

I believe the correct phrasing is "nyet for you"

kamalktk (Oct. 01, 2016 @ 11:42a) |

On the up side, if you break a limb skiing, you will have no OOP for medical and it is fully covered since you have met ... (more)

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Shouldn't there be a more extensive T&C for the pass itself? At the minimum they would say skiing has inherent risks and buying the using the pass you are waiving certain rights. I would guess there should be a term buried in there about resort closing.

No ski for you!

I'm not sure how the link and this are related.

If the insurance won't cover Resort Closing (Possibly due to no snow or an earthquake) then most likely using the insurance portion to cover the cost of the pass.
Will your credit card company cover something like this?

rufflesinc said:   So normally I would just post in this thread as a related comment and question but it's archived

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1492972 

I'm looking to purchasing an epic season ski pass (my first) and it says "If you do not accept pass insurance, you will not be eligible for a refund of any kind and understand that passes are non-transferable nor for re-sale."

Then in the link to the insurance it gives as an example of coverage "The resort closes indefinitely due to a natural disaster."

So putting two and two together, if the resort closes, no refund?

  I don't know about offering pass insurance, but I'm pretty sure no refunds is a pretty standard policy for anywhere that sells a season pass.  About the only time I'd even expect a refund is if the place ends up never opening for the season.

if you are worried about the place closing down, I don't think this season pass is as "epic" as you claim...

No idea, but maybe you could get separate travel insurance that would cover a whole season of skiing and might reimburse your cost of this season pass if there is some kind of natural disaster and the resort is mainly closed down --

I know in the UK they have 12-month, 6-month, 1-month, etc. travel ins. policies that cover all the trips you want to do during that time. However, skiing is sometimes considered a dangerous sport and they require a special add-on for that (not every policy does though, I've had normal, inexpensive travel ins. policies in the UK that allowed on-piste skiing).

Maybe you could ask an ins. co. what they would charge to provide you with a unique personalized policy that would cover what you are worried about. Don't some of them do that sort of one-off kind of policy? Maybe you could also go without the resort's standard pass insurance, if a specialized policy could be written covering the whole she-bang.

How much cheaper, generally, do you estimate that this pass is going to make your ski trips, versus paying on a daily basis for the days that you do ski. Is it worth the hassle, the pass insurance cost, the worry that acts of God might close the resort for too long?

Glitch99 said:   
rufflesinc said:   So normally I would just post in this thread as a related comment and question but it's archived

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1492972 

I'm looking to purchasing an epic season ski pass (my first) and it says "If you do not accept pass insurance, you will not be eligible for a refund of any kind and understand that passes are non-transferable nor for re-sale."

Then in the link to the insurance it gives as an example of coverage "The resort closes indefinitely due to a natural disaster."

So putting two and two together, if the resort closes, no refund?

  I don't know about offering pass insurance, but I'm pretty sure no refunds is a pretty standard policy for anywhere that sells a season pass.  About the only time I'd even expect a refund is if the place ends up never opening for the season.

if you are worried about the place closing down, I don't think this season pass is as "epic" as you claim...

  If they never open for the season they'll probably be insolvent, so there will be no money to refund.

stanolshefski said:   
Glitch99 said:   
rufflesinc said:   So normally I would just post in this thread as a related comment and question but it's archived

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1492972 

I'm looking to purchasing an epic season ski pass (my first) and it says "If you do not accept pass insurance, you will not be eligible for a refund of any kind and understand that passes are non-transferable nor for re-sale."

Then in the link to the insurance it gives as an example of coverage "The resort closes indefinitely due to a natural disaster."

So putting two and two together, if the resort closes, no refund?

  I don't know about offering pass insurance, but I'm pretty sure no refunds is a pretty standard policy for anywhere that sells a season pass.  About the only time I'd even expect a refund is if the place ends up never opening for the season.

if you are worried about the place closing down, I don't think this season pass is as "epic" as you claim...

  If they never open for the season they'll probably be insolvent, so there will be no money to refund.

  read what you wrote again and tell me that's not an awesome scam

Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris

Epic pass resorts aren't going anywhere....it's the best deal in skiing if you.buy at the earliest price. A few years ago I bought passes for my son and I for $700 total I think. We skied 15 days and in February sold the passes for $400.

rufflesinc said:   
stanolshefski said:   
Glitch99 said:   
rufflesinc said:   So normally I would just post in this thread as a related comment and question but it's archived

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1492972 

I'm looking to purchasing an epic season ski pass (my first) and it says "If you do not accept pass insurance, you will not be eligible for a refund of any kind and understand that passes are non-transferable nor for re-sale."

Then in the link to the insurance it gives as an example of coverage "The resort closes indefinitely due to a natural disaster."

So putting two and two together, if the resort closes, no refund?

  I don't know about offering pass insurance, but I'm pretty sure no refunds is a pretty standard policy for anywhere that sells a season pass.  About the only time I'd even expect a refund is if the place ends up never opening for the season.

if you are worried about the place closing down, I don't think this season pass is as "epic" as you claim...

  If they never open for the season they'll probably be insolvent, so there will be no money to refund.

  read what you wrote again and tell me that's not an awesome scam

Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris

  I'm sure each individual resort is separately incorporated. It's possible for one resort to go belly up without impacting the others.

kriskos4 said:   Epic pass resorts aren't going anywhere....it's the best deal in skiing if you.buy at the earliest price. A few years ago I bought passes for my son and I for $700 total I think. We skied 15 days and in February sold the passes for $400.
  how did you sell them? It says non-transferable.

rufflesinc said:   
kriskos4 said:   Epic pass resorts aren't going anywhere....it's the best deal in skiing if you.buy at the earliest price. A few years ago I bought passes for my son and I for $700 total I think. We skied 15 days and in February sold the passes for $400.
  how did you sell them? It says non-transferable.

  
I would not recommend buying another person's pass.  They have RFID scanners that pop up your picture and name.  I have seen lifties ask questions just to verify ownership.  They even do things like say the wrong name to see how you respond.

stanolshefski said:   
rufflesinc said:   
stanolshefski said:   
Glitch99 said:   
rufflesinc said:   So normally I would just post in this thread as a related comment and question but it's archived

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1492972 

I'm looking to purchasing an epic season ski pass (my first) and it says "If you do not accept pass insurance, you will not be eligible for a refund of any kind and understand that passes are non-transferable nor for re-sale."

Then in the link to the insurance it gives as an example of coverage "The resort closes indefinitely due to a natural disaster."

So putting two and two together, if the resort closes, no refund?

  I don't know about offering pass insurance, but I'm pretty sure no refunds is a pretty standard policy for anywhere that sells a season pass.  About the only time I'd even expect a refund is if the place ends up never opening for the season.

if you are worried about the place closing down, I don't think this season pass is as "epic" as you claim...

  If they never open for the season they'll probably be insolvent, so there will be no money to refund.

  read what you wrote again and tell me that's not an awesome scam

Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris

  I'm sure each individual resort is separately incorporated. It's possible for one resort to go belly up without impacting the others.

  But selling passes with apparently no intention of them being usable would bring fraud statutes into the equation.

Can a pass be used across properties?  In that case, I wouldn't expect a refund under any circumstances, regardless of what may happen with your local resort.  If not, then I'd expect that to be the resolution to any one property closing, honoring your pass at a sister resort.

rufflesinc said:   kriskos4 said:   Epic pass resorts aren't going anywhere....it's the best deal in skiing if you.buy at the earliest price. A few years ago I bought passes for my son and I for $700 total I think. We skied 15 days and in February sold the passes for $400.
  how did you sell them? It says non-transferable.


Sold them on Denver CL, said these really should be purchased by a white 45 year old and a white 13 year old. When they scan them on the base our pics would come up.

tante said:   rufflesinc said:   
kriskos4 said:   Epic pass resorts aren't going anywhere....it's the best deal in skiing if you.buy at the earliest price. A few years ago I bought passes for my son and I for $700 total I think. We skied 15 days and in February sold the passes for $400.
  how did you sell them? It says non-transferable.

  
I would not recommend buying another person's pass.  They have RFID scanners that pop up your picture and name.  I have seen lifties ask questions just to verify ownership.  They even do things like say the wrong name to see how you respond.


That is a risk to be sure but half of those kids are baked anyway. Perhaps they get a bonus if they bust somebody.

rufflesinc said:   So normally I would just post in this thread as a related comment and question but it's archived

https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1492972 

I'm looking to purchasing an epic season ski pass (my first) and it says "If you do not accept pass insurance, you will not be eligible for a refund of any kind and understand that passes are non-transferable nor for re-sale."

Then in the link to the insurance it gives as an example of coverage "The resort closes indefinitely due to a natural disaster."

So putting two and two together, if the resort closes, no refund?
 


That's not an "example."  That is a specific peril for which the insurance applies.  See below: 
Insurance said: > The Destination Resort closes indefinitely due to a Natural Disaster (this coverage does not apply if you reside in a state with more than one Destination Resort and at least one of the other Destination Resorts is operating);
 


If the resort closes for other reasons, I don't see anything in the policy that covers it.

Link
 

rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.
 

kriskos4 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
kriskos4 said:   Epic pass resorts aren't going anywhere....it's the best deal in skiing if you.buy at the earliest price. A few years ago I bought passes for my son and I for $700 total I think. We skied 15 days and in February sold the passes for $400.
  how did you sell them? It says non-transferable.


Sold them on Denver CL, said these really should be purchased by a white 45 year old and a white 13 year old. When they scan them on the base our pics would come up.

  ooo yeah, now that I think about it, all you have to do is wear helmet and googles and scarf and no one can tell

jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

  
Is that better, or worse, than the resort being made out of an old landfill?

jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

It was created in 1960 from all the dirt that was moved around to construct I-96.  What is sad about that?  There are repurposed recreation areas all over the country that are built on top of landfills, quarries, etc.  Might as well use the land and material for something. 

arch8ngel said:   jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

  
Is that better, or worse, than the resort being made out of an old landfill?

I think it's sadder that the comany that owns abasin, keystone ,beaver creek etc would buy this literal dump

rufflesinc said:   
arch8ngel said:   
jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

  
Is that better, or worse, than the resort being made out of an old landfill?

I think it's sadder that the comany that owns abasin, keystone ,beaver creek etc would buy this literal dump

  
I'm sure they didn't consider what the hill is made of, they consider how much they can make off of the hill.  Since it's in Michigan, I'm guessing they can charge anything they want and people will come.  People wanting to ski with few choices.

dcwilbur said:   
jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

It was created in 1960 from all the dirt that was moved around to construct I-96.  What is sad about that?  There are repurposed recreation areas all over the country that are built on top of landfills, quarries, etc.  Might as well use the land and material for something. 

  
Its sad that people there only have a 100' tall hill of dirt to ski on.

 

arch8ngel said:   
jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

  
Is that better, or worse, than the resort being made out of an old landfill?


   
  
Its 10x worse than an actual mountain.

I suppose they could pile up horse dung in a giant pile and ski on that and make me even sadder.

 

kriskos4 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
arch8ngel said:   
jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

  
Is that better, or worse, than the resort being made out of an old landfill?

I think it's sadder that the comany that owns abasin, keystone ,beaver creek etc would buy this literal dump

  
I'm sure they didn't consider what the hill is made of, they consider how much they can make off of the hill.  Since it's in Michigan, I'm guessing they can charge anything they want and people will come.  People wanting to ski with few choices.

Well this is probably true. It is half an hour from the nearest suburbs and ann arbor. An hour from most of metro detroit, and probably the only ski place metro detroiters can goto without paying for a hotel night. But given how close it is , i'd be curious how often people are using their season passes to go there

but then again, it's total crap and the bunny hills in CO are taller than that! you can watch a youtube here , the guy takes 20 secs to go down. then waits in a line 30-50 deep for another 20 sec .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bvo0p33nTM



rufflesinc said:   
kriskos4 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
arch8ngel said:   
jerosen said:   
rufflesinc said:   Epic isn't a description of the pass, it's the name of the company  that owns/manages a buttload of the most famous ski resorts in the US, as well as a tiny one in Southeast michigan that is manmade from road construction debris
  
Thats just sad.

  
Is that better, or worse, than the resort being made out of an old landfill?

I think it's sadder that the comany that owns abasin, keystone ,beaver creek etc would buy this literal dump

  
I'm sure they didn't consider what the hill is made of, they consider how much they can make off of the hill.  Since it's in Michigan, I'm guessing they can charge anything they want and people will come.  People wanting to ski with few choices.

Well this is probably true. It is half an hour from the nearest suburbs and ann arbor. An hour from most of metro detroit, and probably the only ski place metro detroiters can goto without paying for a hotel night. But given how close it is , i'd be curious how often people are using their season passes to go there

but then again, it's total crap and the bunny hills in CO are taller than that! you can watch a youtube here , the guy takes 20 secs to go down. then waits in a line 30-50 deep for another 20 sec .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bvo0p33nTM



  
Speaking as a Metro-Detroiter who skis, I can somewhat confirm and somewhat deny this.

There are actually 4 of these "hills" within an hour of downtown Detroit (Brighton, Holly, Pine Knob, Alpine Valley).  None exceed 350' vertical.  All of them charge prices similar to what you would pay at resorts in UT and VT (source: skied in all three states recently).  Season passes at these Michigan "resorts" is nuts - $500+ for a season that *might* last 4 months.  No thanks.  I much prefer to take that cash and try to put together a relatively cheap ski vacation to UT/CO/VT.  In MI, you stop skiing because you're bored.  In UT/VT you stop because you're tired.

There are better "resorts" "up north", but still nothing that exceeds 550'.  Michigan has the climate, just not the terrain for skiing.  Unfortunately, it is what we have.  I usually go to a local place in Dec as a warm up, first time back on the skis for the season, then head east or west for a ski trip (this year, we plan to do both), then head up north for a weekend or two.  Highly unlikely that I would go to a local "resort" more than once a season.  But for the majority of others (younger skiers, etc) who cannot put a trip together, it's all we have.

You know I was reading the policies of the insurance and realized. It's $10 on a $400 ticket. We are really discussing a $10 charge?

forbin4040 said:   You know I was reading the policies of the insurance and realized. It's $10 on a $400 ticket. We are really discussing a $10 charge?

Are you new around here? I've seen discussions over stale $2 rebate checks that went on for months.

qcumber98 said:   No ski for you!
  I believe the correct phrasing is "nyet for you"

On the up side, if you break a limb skiing, you will have no OOP for medical and it is fully covered since you have met the 2016 deductible and coinsurance (be careful after Dec 31).



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