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rated:
Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified. Last year when I sent my tax return by regular mail paying with a credit card my receipt showed an item/package was sent to the IRS address with the date. Isn't this enough for a proof?

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I would imagine having the PO Box delivered to the physical office location is a special type of mail forwarding. You ca... (more)

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I went to college in a small town. Mail was easily delivered with just name, college name, city state zip

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Not to beat this subject to death, but:  see article linked below.  Among other things, it points out that a STATE tax r... (more)

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Personally, I say you should e-file. You'll get a record of receipt and save on postage!

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There are situations where efile are impossible.

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there is middle ground of around $1.50 for a simple proof of mailing

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26 U.S. Code § 7502

Registered and certified is automatic proof of delivery to Treasury.

The Commissioner is authorized by the statute to treat certain private delivery services as equivelent to registered and certified. Those are listed in Internal Revenue Bulletin: 2015-21.

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If you owe, it's a good idea to get some proof, but if you're filing today under the 6 month extension to file deadline, it's assumed you paid all that you owe back in April. I filed today for a refund and took it to the post office. Sent plain old first class and got a receipt.

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atikovi said:   If you owe, it's a good idea to get some proof, but if you're filing today under the 6 month extension to file deadline, it's assumed you paid all that you owe back in April. I filed today for a refund and took it to the post office. Sent plain old first class and got a receipt.
  
If it's a refund,  it's not a true deadline ( per other thread ) right?

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needhelpplease said:   If it's a refund,  it's not a true deadline ( per other thread ) right?
  
The deadline is a deadline, refund or not.  The difference is that there are no actual penalties provided all your tax due was paid on time.
 

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vipercon said:   
needhelpplease said:   If it's a refund,  it's not a true deadline ( per other thread ) right?
  
The deadline is a deadline, refund or not.  The difference is that there are no actual penalties provided all your tax due was paid on time.

  so no - consequences if filed  next week?

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Nope. As long as you are due a refund the only consequence is that you will get it a little later.

Edit:  Some may say you could be more likely to get an audit.  Either due to showing you do not follow the rules (filing date), or the fact yours came in when there was less to process so they may look over it more, etc.  It is all pretty much speculation however.  As long as you don't have questionable deductions it shouldn't matter either way.
 

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IIRC, IF no $ is due, you have 3 years to claim your refund.

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vipercon said:   Nope. As long as you are due a refund the only consequence is that you will get it a little later.

Edit:  Some may say you could be more likely to get an audit.  Either due to showing you do not follow the rules (filing date), or the fact yours came in when there was less to process so they may look over it more, etc.  It is all pretty much speculation however.  As long as you don't have questionable deductions it shouldn't matter either way.

  That's what I thought too.  

Taking standard deduction but my biggest concern is for a above the line moving deduction. We moved back from another state after 1 yr. (so I had one in 2014 also)
Will get it this week so they'll still have some "volume"   Do they really have a low volume period since people are filing old returns/ amendments all the time right?

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SinbadS said:   Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified.My tax software recommends certified. It's only $3.30 extra.

I will probably never e-file, because I've never trusted the IRS systems that are connected to the internet. My skepticism predates and is only reinforced by their recent problem (although mailed returns are affected just the same).

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scripta said:   
SinbadS said:   Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified.
My tax software recommends certified. It's only $3.30 extra.

I will probably never e-file, because I've never trusted the IRS systems that are connected to the internet. My skepticism predates and is only reinforced by their recent problem (although mailed returns are affected just the same).

  Your tax information makes it to internet accessible systems no matter what you do.  As your above link points out as well.

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There are two penalties. Failure to pay and failure to file. Not paying on time results in your paying interest at .5%/month starting from April 15. Failure to file seems to have a 60 day window even with an extension. So I don't think a day or two will actually matter. But it is possible for your return to get lost in the mail and you'd never know the IRS didn't have it unless you sent it via traceable means.
IRS said: If you file your return more than 60 days after the due date or extended due date, the minimum penalty for late filing is the smaller of $135 or 100 percent of the unpaid tax. Penalty for late payment. The failure-to-pay penalty is generally 0.5 percent per month of your unpaid taxes

 

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TravelerMSY said:   There are two penalties. Failure to pay and failure to file. Not paying on time results in your paying interest at .5%/month starting from April 15. Failure to file seems to have a 60 day window even with an extension. So I don't think a day or two will actually matter. But it is possible for your return to get lost in the mail and you'd never know the IRS didn't have it unless you sent it via traceable means.
IRS said: If you file your return more than 60 days after the due date or extended due date, the minimum penalty for late filing is the smaller of $135 or 100 percent of the unpaid tax. Penalty for late payment. The failure-to-pay penalty is generally 0.5 percent per month of your unpaid taxes

  
So the REAL deadline is December 15th? (let the Fed's keep my $20 refund!) 

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Failure to file still would not apply to someone with a refund. You owe the SMALLER of $135 or 100 percent of the unpaid tax. The unpaid tax would be $0, so the penalty would be nothing as well.

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Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

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vipercon said:    In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.
you'd have a misdemeanor or felony conviction. i guess if the IRS wanted, they could go after you for failing to file a tax return even though you didn't owe anything

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SinbadS said:   Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified. Last year when I sent my tax return by regular mail paying with a credit card my receipt showed an item/package was sent to the IRS address with the date. Isn't this enough for a proof?
  
OP FYI You can use stamps.com to print out a stamp printed today for free (trial)...
Just did that just in case.
Interesting there's no PO BOX? ??
Department of the Treasury
| Internal Revenue Service
| Fresno, CA 93888-0002
 

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needhelpplease said:   
SinbadS said:   Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified. Last year when I sent my tax return by regular mail paying with a credit card my receipt showed an item/package was sent to the IRS address with the date. Isn't this enough for a proof?
  
OP FYI You can use stamps.com to print out a stamp printed today for free (trial)...
Just did that just in case.
Interesting there's no PO BOX? ??
Department of the Treasury
| Internal Revenue Service
| Fresno, CA 93888-0002

  The 9-digit zip code identifies the destination as IRS. Not all 5-digit zip codes represent post offices with PO Boxes ...

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scripta said:   
SinbadS said:   Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified.
My tax software recommends certified. It's only $3.30 extra.

I will probably never e-file, because I've never trusted the IRS systems that are connected to the internet. My skepticism predates and is only reinforced by their recent problem (although mailed returns are affected just the same).

  
But you trust the ones that manually enter the information into their system?

 

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rsuaver said:   
scripta said:   
SinbadS said:   Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified.
My tax software recommends certified. It's only $3.30 extra.

I will probably never e-file, because I've never trusted the IRS systems that are connected to the internet. My skepticism predates and is only reinforced by their recent problem (although mailed returns are affected just the same).

  
But you trust the ones that manually enter the information into their system?

 

  pretty sure its done by ocr

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rufflesinc said:   
vipercon said:    In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.
you'd have a misdemeanor or felony conviction. i guess if the IRS wanted, they could go after you for failing to file a tax return even though you didn't owe anything

 
@ruffles -- Your guessing misinforms everyone.

For a late-filed return, where there is no tax due (i.e., already paid by withholding or ES payments, or simply zero taxable income), there is NO PENALTY. Code section 6651(a)(1).

P.S.  In order for the $205 minimum penalty to apply, there still has to be tax due.  See Internal Revenue Manual, 8.17.7.3.1.

rated:
tuphat said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vipercon said:    In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.
you'd have a misdemeanor or felony conviction. i guess if the IRS wanted, they could go after you for failing to file a tax return even though you didn't owe anything

 
@ruffles -- Your guessing misinforms everyone.

For a late-filed return, where there is no tax due (i.e., already paid by withholding or ES payments, or simply zero taxable income), there is NO PENALTY. Code section 6651(a)(1).

P.S.  In order for the $205 minimum penalty to apply, there still has to be tax due.  See Internal Revenue Manual, 8.17.7.3.1.

  where does it say that
=10pt(a)=10ptAddition to the tax=10ptIn case of failure—=10pt(1)to file any return required under authority of subchapter A of chapter 61 (other than part III thereof), subchapter A of chapter 51 (relating to distilled spirits, wines, and beer), or of subchapter A of chapter 52 (relating to tobacco, cigars, cigarettes, and cigarette papers and tubes), or of subchapter A of chapter 53 (relating to machine guns and certain other firearms), on the date prescribed therefor (determined with regard to any extension of time for filing), unless it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect, there shall be added to the amount required to be shown as tax on such return 5 percent of the amount of such tax if the failure is for not more than 1 month, with an additional 5 percent for each additional month or fraction thereof during which such failure continues, not exceeding 25 percent in the aggregate; 

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I use regular mail under the theory that if I owe, they cash the check in about 12 days.

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vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

The business can't make something illegal that is otherwise legal. The law just allows the business require the person to leave if they are violating the "No Guns" policy. If the person doesn't comply, he isn't guilty of breaking a law relating to carrying of firearms, he's guilty of trespassing or disturbing the peace.

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meade18 said:   
vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

The business can't make something illegal that is otherwise legal. The law just allows the business require the person to leave if they are violating the "No Guns" policy. If the person doesn't comply, he isn't guilty of breaking a law relating to carrying of firearms, he's guilty of trespassing or disturbing the peace.

  If there is a law against it, then yes, he's guilty of carry concealed blahblahb busienss blah blah

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
meade18 said:   
vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

The business can't make something illegal that is otherwise legal. The law just allows the business require the person to leave if they are violating the "No Guns" policy. If the person doesn't comply, he isn't guilty of breaking a law relating to carrying of firearms, he's guilty of trespassing or disturbing the peace.

  If there is a law against it, then yes, he's guilty of carry concealed blahblahb busienss blah blah

  Have you been drinking?

rated:
BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
meade18 said:   
vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

The business can't make something illegal that is otherwise legal. The law just allows the business require the person to leave if they are violating the "No Guns" policy. If the person doesn't comply, he isn't guilty of breaking a law relating to carrying of firearms, he's guilty of trespassing or disturbing the peace.

  If there is a law against it, then yes, he's guilty of carry concealed blahblahb busienss blah blah

  Have you been drinking?

  Here is the original post
 In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  
I have no idea what the actual law is. I simply assume the poster is correct. Simply because the law doesn't proscribe a penalty, doesn't preclude you from being convicted of breaking it.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
tuphat said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vipercon said:    In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.
you'd have a misdemeanor or felony conviction. i guess if the IRS wanted, they could go after you for failing to file a tax return even though you didn't owe anything

 
@ruffles -- Your guessing misinforms everyone.

For a late-filed return, where there is no tax due (i.e., already paid by withholding or ES payments, or simply zero taxable income), there is NO PENALTY. Code section 6651(a)(1).

P.S.  In order for the $205 minimum penalty to apply, there still has to be tax due.  See Internal Revenue Manual, 8.17.7.3.1.

  where does it say that
=10pt(a)=10ptAddition to the tax=10ptIn case of failure—=10pt(1)to file any return required under authority of subchapter A of chapter 61 (other than part III thereof), subchapter A of chapter 51 (relating to distilled spirits, wines, and beer), or of subchapter A of chapter 52 (relating to tobacco, cigars, cigarettes, and cigarette papers and tubes), or of subchapter A of chapter 53 (relating to machine guns and certain other firearms), on the date prescribed therefor (determined with regard to any extension of time for filing), unless it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect, there shall be added to the amount required to be shown as tax on such return 5 percent of the amount of such tax if the failure is for not more than 1 month, with an additional 5 percent for each additional month or fraction thereof during which such failure continues, not exceeding 25 percent in the aggregate; 

  You must not be able to read.  The statute says the penalty is based on the amount of tax due.  No tax due = no penalty.  I also provided you a cite to the IRM, which confirms this.  https://www.irs.gov/irm/part8/irm_08-017-007.html#d0e244

rated:
meade18 said:   vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

The business can't make something illegal that is otherwise legal. The law just allows the business require the person to leave if they are violating the "No Guns" policy. If the person doesn't comply, he isn't guilty of breaking a law relating to carrying of firearms, he's guilty of trespassing or disturbing the peace.

In some states it is a crime. Texas is one.

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You can lose your CCW permit for breaking the rules. Plus criminal penalties depending on which one.

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rufflesinc said:   
BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
meade18 said:   
vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

The business can't make something illegal that is otherwise legal. The law just allows the business require the person to leave if they are violating the "No Guns" policy. If the person doesn't comply, he isn't guilty of breaking a law relating to carrying of firearms, he's guilty of trespassing or disturbing the peace.

  If there is a law against it, then yes, he's guilty of carry concealed blahblahb busienss blah blah

  Have you been drinking?

  Here is the original post
 In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  
I have no idea what the actual law is. I simply assume the poster is correct. Simply because the law doesn't proscribe a penalty, doesn't preclude you from being convicted of breaking it.

Why assume he is correct and not me?
If you have no idea, then I have a novel suggestion for you... DON'T REPLY.

rated:
meade18 said:   rufflesinc said:   
BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
meade18 said:   
vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

The business can't make something illegal that is otherwise legal. The law just allows the business require the person to leave if they are violating the "No Guns" policy. If the person doesn't comply, he isn't guilty of breaking a law relating to carrying of firearms, he's guilty of trespassing or disturbing the peace.

  If there is a law against it, then yes, he's guilty of carry concealed blahblahb busienss blah blah

  Have you been drinking?

  Here is the original post
 In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  
I have no idea what the actual law is. I simply assume the poster is correct. Simply because the law doesn't proscribe a penalty, doesn't preclude you from being convicted of breaking it.

Why assume he is correct and not me?
If you have no idea, then I have a novel suggestion for you... DON'T REPLY.

I don't assume he is correct because I think he is correct. I assume he is correct.

rated:
tuphat said:   rufflesinc said:   
tuphat said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vipercon said:    In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.
you'd have a misdemeanor or felony conviction. i guess if the IRS wanted, they could go after you for failing to file a tax return even though you didn't owe anything

 
@ruffles -- Your guessing misinforms everyone.

For a late-filed return, where there is no tax due (i.e., already paid by withholding or ES payments, or simply zero taxable income), there is NO PENALTY. Code section 6651(a)(1).

P.S.  In order for the $205 minimum penalty to apply, there still has to be tax due.  See Internal Revenue Manual, 8.17.7.3.1.

  where does it say that
=10pt(a)=10ptAddition to the tax=10ptIn case of failure—=10pt(1)to file any return required under authority of subchapter A of chapter 61 (other than part III thereof), subchapter A of chapter 51 (relating to distilled spirits, wines, and beer), or of subchapter A of chapter 52 (relating to tobacco, cigars, cigarettes, and cigarette papers and tubes), or of subchapter A of chapter 53 (relating to machine guns and certain other firearms), on the date prescribed therefor (determined with regard to any extension of time for filing), unless it is shown that such failure is due to reasonable cause and not due to willful neglect, there shall be added to the amount required to be shown as tax on such return 5 percent of the amount of such tax if the failure is for not more than 1 month, with an additional 5 percent for each additional month or fraction thereof during which such failure continues, not exceeding 25 percent in the aggregate; 

  You must not be able to read.  The statute says the penalty is based on the amount of tax due.  No tax due = no penalty.  I also provided you a cite to the IRM, which confirms this.  https://www.irs.gov/irm/part8/irm_08-017-007.html#d0e244

where does it say you are nothe breaking the law by not filing then?

rated:
This is your brain on ruffin...

rated:
vipercon said:   Grace periods and lack of penalties do not change the "real deadline". Basically, get it in as soon as you can and maybe try for a little sooner next year.

Edit: Maybe not the best example but its hard to think of laws without penalties attached to them... In Kentucky it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon (with permit) in to a private business that posts a sign against it.   However there is no penalty attached to the statute.  The lack of civil and criminal penalties does not change the violation.

Have you actually read the statute? I just did (KRS § 237.110 (17))

It specifically says that: Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in the statute by a license holder is not a criminal act, but may subject the person to denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer, disciplinary measures by the employer.

So yes, it does prescribe what the repercussions are (and are not).

rated:
needhelpplease said:   
SinbadS said:   Is it a good idea to send tax returns by regular first-class mail or certified. Last year when I sent my tax return by regular mail paying with a credit card my receipt showed an item/package was sent to the IRS address with the date. Isn't this enough for a proof?
  
OP FYI You can use stamps.com to print out a stamp printed today for free (trial)...
Just did that just in case.
Interesting there's no PO BOX? ??
Department of the Treasury
| Internal Revenue Service
| Fresno, CA 93888-0002

  
There is no PO Box, which would be a huge hassle for the IRS and the Post Office.  The USPS mail truck delivers the mail directly to the IRS facility. 

Skipping 5 Messages...
rated:
Not to beat this subject to death, but:  see article linked below.  Among other things, it points out that a STATE tax return acknowledged as timely filed by the state tax authority is pretty strong evidence that a federal tax return was also timely filed, even if IRS says it wasn't.  Might not persuade IRS, but would be pretty persuasive to a judge.  Warning:  works the other way, too.

http://procedurallytaxing.com/proving-you-filed-a-return/

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