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This needs more green. it's one thing not to have the ability to succeed in college, its certainty quite another to have... (more)

rufflesinc (Nov. 04, 2016 @ 8:08a) |

I'd say many if not most of humanity's accomplishments are achieved through not just ingenuity, but also perseverance. I... (more)

subieaggie (Nov. 04, 2016 @ 10:46p) |

They take a small loss on each transaction, but they make up for it on volume.

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"Morrie Low, a 27-year-old Seattle cocktail server. . working off card balances he built up during college"

What we need is more free college so cocktail servers everywhere dont have to rack up credit card debt. Maybe we should propose a free cc plan during the next election cycle to ensure this doesnt happen to our youth.

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yahoooooooo!

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What people say and what they actually do might be different.

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It's like the early 2000's all over again.  I fell like 0% no fee balance transfers will be coming up next, oh and if the Fed would work with us and raise interest rates a couple of points.

As Zaos said.  Chase/Citi/etc that are offering these nice sign up bonuses are banking that a number of those "responsible" new card holders that pay things off are not as responsible as they might think.

How much you want to bet our 27 year old cocktail server heading to Germany with his girlfriend on Chase's dime is going to spend a LOT more then that signup bonus Chase is giving him.  60 days later, that bill from the trip to Germany comes due, he isn't going to pay it all off with his cocktail tips.  He'll "justify" carrying the balance because the signup bonus was sooooo good, which is exactly what Chase is hoping will happen.

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rechtien said:   "Morrie Low, a 27-year-old Seattle cocktail server. . working off card balances he built up during college"

What we need is more free college so cocktail servers everywhere dont have to rack up credit card debt. Maybe we should propose a free cc plan during the next election cycle to ensure this doesnt happen to our youth.

  sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill. people majoring in absolute nonsense and the govt lending them whatever money they want to do so is why tuition has gotten so high.

and even without student loans most people are terrible and irresponsible with money. there's a reason sub optimal advice like Ramsey's is still good for most people.

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rechtien said:   
What we need is more free college so cocktail servers everywhere dont have to rack up credit card debt. Maybe we should propose a free cc plan during the next election cycle to ensure this doesnt happen to our youth.

  You assume the cocktail server went to college with becoming a cocktail server in mind

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bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

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plastrd said:   
bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

  You look at expected future income and compare it to cost of the degree. Like an investment return. 

If someone thinks a comm degree is critical then they can set up a non-profit and award scholarships to comm degree majors

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rufflesinc said:   
plastrd said:   
bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

  You look at expected future income and compare it to cost of the degree. Like an investment return. 

If someone thinks a comm degree is critical then they can set up a non-profit and award scholarships to comm degree majors

  They did - http://www.communications-major.com/communications-scholarships/

Some people with this degree - http://www.communicationstudies.com/29-famous-people-you-never-k...

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They've worn out their engraver making all these CSR cards. My card that just came in today looks crappy around the engraving. I want a refund of my $450! </fake rage>

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plastrd said:   
bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

  
The market decides. If someone wants to get some liberal arts degree don't expect someone to pay for it. Certain fields of study and certain trades pay well- those are the ones people should be going into if they want a free ride.

There's nothing wrong with studying what interests you- on your own dime . I wouldn''t expect someone to pay for me to study the history of baseball for example which is just as worthless (as far as what kind of job you can get) as many degrees people are getting now.

As far as the topic at hand- the banks have all the numbers and we don't. While I'm glad they havent banned me and people like me from from signup bonuses I don't understand why they haven't. 
 

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svap said:   
rufflesinc said:   
plastrd said:   
bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

  You look at expected future income and compare it to cost of the degree. Like an investment return. 

If someone thinks a comm degree is critical then they can set up a non-profit and award scholarships to comm degree majors

  They did - http://www.communications-major.com/communications-scholarships/ 

Some people with this degree - http://www.communicationstudies.com/29-famous-people-you-never-k...

  Great and those people either became rich and famous having nothing to do with their degree or basically won the lottery with high paying tv and radio jobs. If people want to chase that pipe dream let them pay for it.I didn't even read through the whole list but it's funny they have a president on there from 200 years ago as though it has any relevance to today's job market and a female soccer player who is only famous for taking off her shirt and running around the field.

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rufflesinc said:   
plastrd said:   
bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

  You look at expected future income and compare it to cost of the degree. Like an investment return. 

If someone thinks a comm degree is critical then they can set up a non-profit and award scholarships to comm degree majors

  Money isn't the most important thing to many people.

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That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.

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BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
plastrd said:   
bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

  You look at expected future income and compare it to cost of the degree. Like an investment return. 

If someone thinks a comm degree is critical then they can set up a non-profit and award scholarships to comm degree majors

  Money isn't the most important thing to many people.

  but .. capitalism

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bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
  A country full of STEM degree holders wouldn't be the utopia that you think.

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BostonOne said:   
bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
  A country full of STEM degree holders wouldn't be the utopia that you think.

  That's not really just a matter of preference choice.  Intelligence limits the pool of possible people for some majors.

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rechtien said:   "Morrie Low, a 27-year-old Seattle cocktail server. . After working off card balances he built up during college"
  Context makes a difference, no?
rechtien said:   What we need is more free college so cocktail servers everywhere dont have to rack up credit card debt. Maybe we should propose a free cc plan during the next election cycle to ensure this doesnt happen to our youth.
 Morrie is now going to Europe on Chase's dime. He must have learned something useful somewhere. Maybe it was that GE Economics class.

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BostonOne said:   
bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
  A country full of STEM degree holders wouldn't be the utopia that you think.

  Korea is the case in point: http://qz.com/805909/after-20-years-of-studying-and-exams-even-s...

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Bend3r said:   
BostonOne said:   
bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
  A country full of STEM degree holders wouldn't be the utopia that you think.

  That's not really just a matter of preference choice.  Intelligence limits the pool of possible people for some majors.

  "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" -Karl Marx
Korea is the case in point: http://qz.com/805909/after-20-years-of-studying-and-exams-even-s...
Yet SV is exactly the opposite ... Sky high salaries because employers can't find enough qualified people 

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The banks are still giving away free money they don't have? I wonder how that will turn out...

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bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
Like procreating, going to church, and homeowning?

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rufflesinc said:   
Bend3r said:   
BostonOne said:   
bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
  A country full of STEM degree holders wouldn't be the utopia that you think.

  That's not really just a matter of preference choice.  Intelligence limits the pool of possible people for some majors.

  "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" -Karl Marx
Korea is the case in point: http://qz.com/805909/after-20-years-of-studying-and-exams-even-s...
Yet SV is exactly the opposite ... Sky high salaries because employers can't find enough qualified people 

  *Because nearly every employer wants to hire the best coders -- who are multiples better than average coders. This drives up the average wages and cost of living, which drives up average wages and the cost of living, etc.

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BrianGa said:   
bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
Like procreating, going to church, and homeowning?

  then the govt should subsidize some jobs for these degree holders.  what benefit is there for them to end up working as baristas?

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BrianGa said:   
bxlefty23 said:   That's fine- then use your own dime to fund what you like. Tax payers shoudn't finance other people's hobbies.
Like procreating, going to church, and homeowning?

  
i'd be 100 pct on board with getting rid of religious tax breaks,interest deductions and selfishly would love if it I paid the same in taxes having no kids as someone with my income who has kids.

Sorry spending 20-50 k a year to have someone study what they like with no actual benefit to society is absurd especially in 2016 when you can learn anything you want dirt cheap.

Also the mentality of "we already spend money on a lot of dumb things so let's spend even more on more dumb things" makes no sense.

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bxlefty23 said:   rechtien said:   "Morrie Low, a 27-year-old Seattle cocktail server. . working off card balances he built up during college"

What we need is more free college so cocktail servers everywhere dont have to rack up credit card debt. Maybe we should propose a free cc plan during the next election cycle to ensure this doesnt happen to our youth.

  sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill. people majoring in absolute nonsense and the govt lending them whatever money they want to do so is why tuition has gotten so high.
.



Government loans have reasonable annual caps and are not unlimited.

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I am amazed we actually got 1-2 replies to the content of the main post before things completely devolved.

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beatme said:   I am amazed we actually got 1-2 replies to the content of the main post before things completely devolved.
 

  Just like the entire FWF, which used to provide actual useful information and now has become a circlejerk and echo chamber for self-appointed personal finance geniuses.

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beatme said:   I am amazed we actually got 1-2 replies to the content of the main post before things completely devolved.
  
I don't think you are on FW if you have $450 to throw around.

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the $450 annual fee is an investment in the sign up bonus and other perks...well worth it if you know how to use credit cards and their bonuses.

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BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
plastrd said:   
bxlefty23 said:   
sure if people are actually majoring in worthwhile things or going to trade schools and learning a real skill.


Who gets to decide what the worthwhile things are? I mean if it's me making the decision it's going to be limited to STEM and various skilled labor trades but I'm sure we can find someone who thinks a communications degree is critical to society.

  You look at expected future income and compare it to cost of the degree. Like an investment return. 

If someone thinks a comm degree is critical then they can set up a non-profit and award scholarships to comm degree majors

  Money isn't the most important thing to many people.

  Until their kid needs to go to a doctor...

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millervtranger said:   the $450 annual fee is an investment in the sign up bonus and other perks...well worth it if you know how to use credit cards and their bonuses.
  Definitely. It's no longer true that you should just avoid annual fees as some kind of mantra- like was common in the financial press a while ago. There is almost always some kind of hidden value if you're paying attention. For instance, almost all of the Amex cards end up giving you good value just from the Amex offers alone.

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I have my problems with the Ed system but I always come back to parents. If parents would actually look at report cards/SAT/ACT scores and acknowledge their kid isn't some genius who is a late bloomer and "needs a challenge" it would make a difference. If parents would actually guide their children to trades like electrical or plumbing some of these worthless degrees would not exist.

But it won't happen. If a high school junior came home and told their parents the guidance counselor said he should be an auto body repairman the parents would be calling the Principal threatening a lawsuit.

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saladdin said:   If a high school junior came home and told their parents the guidance counselor said he should be an auto body repairman the parents would be calling the Principal threatening a lawsuit.
  What criteria do you suggest a counselor use to make the determination of what the ceiling of a 16 year old is?

Please , FWF, raise your hand if you think your 16 year old kid should not goto college and be a auto body worker or electrician or plumber

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millervtranger said:   the $450 annual fee is an investment in the sign up bonus and other perks...well worth it if you know how to use credit cards and their bonuses.
  exactly. i almost always cancel cards after the first year that have an AF but some are worth paying bc the bonuses far exceed the fees.

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rufflesinc said:   
saladdin said:   If a high school junior came home and told their parents the guidance counselor said he should be an auto body repairman the parents would be calling the Principal threatening a lawsuit.
  What criteria do you suggest a counselor use to make the determination of what the ceiling of a 16 year old is?

Please , FWF, raise your hand if you think your 16 year old kid should not goto college and be a auto body worker or electrician or plumber

  
My brother was never academically inclined but since he was a little kid was always great at fixing things. For whatever reason his brain just works that way and he can look at broken cars, electronics etc and knows how they're supposed to work and how to fix them. Fortunately we grew up in NY where there are actually high schools with trade programs. My dad also realized what his strengths are and long story short his hs got him certification to be an airline mechanic at no cost (normally would cost a ton of money) and now he makes damb good money as an airline mechanic and always has some kind of size gig fixing other people's stuff. Him going to college would have been a waste of time- just like me trying to fix cars or planes would be since I'd likely cut some fingers off.On the other hand my aunt is book smart and would always study harder than anyone so she has degrees in worthless nonsense (and had close to a 4.0 gpa) but has no common sense or useful skills people are willing to pay for.And yet she was the one trying to tell my dad that he was wrong for not pushing my brother to go to college.

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millervtranger said:   the $450 annual fee is an investment in the sign up bonus and other perks...well worth it if you know how to use credit cards and their bonuses.

Looks like a really good card. I'll probably pick it up next year after my 12 months of 3% cash back ends with Discover.

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bxlefty23 said:   rufflesinc said:   
saladdin said:   If a high school junior came home and told their parents the guidance counselor said he should be an auto body repairman the parents would be calling the Principal threatening a lawsuit.
  What criteria do you suggest a counselor use to make the determination of what the ceiling of a 16 year old is?

Please , FWF, raise your hand if you think your 16 year old kid should not goto college and be a auto body worker or electrician or plumber

  
My brother was never academically inclined but since he was a little kid was always great at fixing things. For whatever reason his brain just works that way and he can look at broken cars, electronics etc and knows how they're supposed to work and how to fix them. Fortunately we grew up in NY where there are actually high schools with trade programs. My dad also realized what his strengths are and long story short his hs got him certification to be an airline mechanic at no cost (normally would cost a ton of money) and now he makes damb good money as an airline mechanic and always has some kind of size gig fixing other people's stuff. Him going to college would have been a waste of time- just like me trying to fix cars or planes would be since I'd likely cut some fingers off.On the other hand my aunt is book smart and would always study harder than anyone so she has degrees in worthless nonsense (and had close to a 4.0 gpa) but has no common sense or useful skills people are willing to pay for.And yet she was the one trying to tell my dad that he was wrong for not pushing my brother to go to college.



Trade programs were greatly neglected over the last generation, and young adults are paying the price for that now. I think we will see a trend back towards the trades in coming years, as it becomes clear that many aren't best suited to wasting time and resources on college (and college prep HS).

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