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rated:
Folks, I just read the following report, and it seems Wall Street is back to pre-2007 life. MBAs from top schools are receiving ridiculous amount of compensation: $365,000, $317,000, $290,000 etc. with bonus. They were making $100,000, $65,000, $90,000 respectively pre-MBA. Reported in poet and quant's site (the most popular MBA news site) last Friday (10/21/2016):

http://poetsandquants.com/2016/10/21/new-data-mba-will-make-rich...

I have to tell you, the MOST unproductive, entitled, rude and arrogant, good for nothing, unethical, money hungry people I meet in my career are the newly minted MBAs from the top schools. These guys have zero ability to produce anything, have zero management skill, zero business skills, zero ability in any getting anything done (just ask them to make few copies 1-sided to 2-sided, 1-slanted-staple, in the machine at the corner during an interview (after showing them twice how to do it), and you will see what I am talking about), but they think they know everything better than anyone around, and they deserve to take the leadership role and make changes. Top schools just tell them that they are the leader of the future in exchange of staggeringly high tuition. I am surprised to see that these guys are back again. My understanding was that 2007-09 crisis wiped out the MBA culture. Clearly I was wrong!
 

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Anyone can live paycheck to paycheck if they spend their entire paycheck and don't save anything. That doesn't really... (more)

jerosen (Oct. 25, 2016 @ 5:37p) |

well, let's put it this way. if you made $20k and lived in manhattan, you'd live paycheck to paycheck no matter how frug... (more)

rufflesinc (Oct. 25, 2016 @ 7:32p) |

I would imagine the homeless make more than $20k/year living in Manhattan...

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rated:
But clearly not as "unproductive, entitled, rude and arrogant, good for nothing, unethical, money hungry people" as many CEO's who make even more.

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hmm ASU just made their FT MBA free....

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but .. but .. free market capitalism!!!!!!!

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Banking activities can be categorized among Arbitrage, Speculation and Hedging.

Out of these three:
1. Pure Arbitrage is GOOD! It increases liquidity in the market and creates an efficient marketplace.
2. Pure hedging is GOOD! Often, this is done for the client with risk in a certain area in the market and the bank is a pass-through entity.

3. Speculation on the other hand, is nothing but negative for the stability of the markets. The shorter term the speculation - usually it is more harmful. It should only belong to hedge funds and your pension should be prohibited from investing in them!! Private capital can do whatever they want with their money.

Without #1 and #2 - modern capitalistic system would simply not exist!

Difficulty is that it is often impossible to separate #3 from #1 and #2. In the well known JPM episode a few years ago - the loss could be categorized either as poor hedging (cost of doing business) or speculation (NOT acceptable in a bank). To know which - you would need to get inside the head of the trader! This is an extreme example. Many times it is possible to differentiate simply by looking at the pattern of trading.

In theory, therefore, you can simply align the incentives for the banks to do the first two as much as possible, while discouraging the third. The tools you can use for this is crude - hence in practice they will always leave the opportunity of speculation creeping in.

However, railing against banking as a whole is likely against the interests of your own 401k/pension/whatever.

As for the salaries - some positions in banking will always have to pay high because they require very high degree of quantitative capabilities. Much like why Actuaries get paid $150k+ - extremely unusual for a 100% back-office work with almost zero interpersonal skills required!! How high - is obviously debatable. In fact - the pay-scale should be one of the levers that is used to encourage hedging and arbitrage and discourage speculation!

Blind regulation won't do us any good!! You need surgical ones that encourages capitalism - but discourages speculation and crony capitalism. Occupy wall street type railing against the banks have zero chance of ever being adopted, but scarier is if they are ever adopted then the "solution" they will produce will be way worse than anything that exists today!!

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I'm seeing a lot of telltale signs on Internet forums that another bubble is about to pop--people over-investing in real estate, high bank and CC bonuses/BT, and stories like this.

Hopefully it doesn't happen.

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I don't know how much moving other people's money around can make people billionaires but look at the people who attend the Bilderberg group. Almost all are (((international bankers))).

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"The data is self-reported on the TransparentMBA platform and includes hundreds of recently graduated MBAs."

Self-reporting on the internet... no chance of sample bias at all...

Move along folks, MBAs are still a scam unless you can get into a top 5 school.

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Yeah, but how many positions like that are there and how many "top grads from top schools" are applying for them?  A few of the top percenters?  The rest of the top percenters have the attitude and still end up working an E Jones branch in a suburb somewhere...  Generally those are the kids of parents who have already "made" it and are using "connections."  The old saying "them what has, gets" is an old saying for a reason.  It takes one level of connection just to get INTO those programs, and then another to get the interviews.
 
 

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Is this a newsflash? Very hard to get jobs at top-tier banks pay well?

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only 12 people have base salaries over 200k:
http://poetsandquants.com/2016/02/08/highest-lowest-paid-mbas-of...

TransparentMBA says the median total compensation (salary, bonus + stock) is $220k

Not much to get outraged about.

OP's opinions that these people are all bumbling arrogant entitled idiots who can't run a copy machine makes me think he has an ax to grind here.

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Why does it matter if an MBA graduate can run a copy machine?

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ChinaRider said:   Why does it matter if an MBA graduate can run a copy machine?
  
Yeah.   And why would their employer pay them $400k a year and then waste that employees time by asking them to make copies when you're paying them  >$100/hr to do so?

 

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jerosen said:   
ChinaRider said:   Why does it matter if an MBA graduate can run a copy machine?
  
Yeah.   And why would their employer pay them $400k a year and then waste that employees time by asking them to make copies when you're paying them  >$100/hr to do so?

 

  well, unless they are prepared for wait for urgent copies, faxes etc, they would have to not only hire people who's job is just to copy fax etc, but also make sure there's no queue 

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Reminds me of the joke about the new guy in the office who mistook the shredder for the copy/scan machine

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jerosen said:   
ChinaRider said:   Why does it matter if an MBA graduate can run a copy machine?
  
Yeah.   And why would their employer pay them $400k a year and then waste that employees time by asking them to make copies when you're paying them  >$100/hr to do so?

 

  
Yeah... watch Undercover Boss. Almost all the CEOs say they can't do the basic tasks of the co. Makes me think leading by example is BS

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jerosen said:   only 12 people have base salaries over 200k:
http://poetsandquants.com/2016/02/08/highest-lowest-paid-mbas-of... 

TransparentMBA says the median total compensation (salary, bonus + stock) is $220k

Not much to get outraged about.

OP's opinions that these people are all bumbling arrogant entitled idiots who can't run a copy machine makes me think he has an ax to grind here.

  And they are often working 60+ hr weeks.  

People often miss that...compared to a 40 hr week job they have a built in 50% "overtime" bonus.  If you were to offer me two jobs, one at $150K (40 hr workweek) or $220K (60 hr workweek) I would choose the first every time, work life balance and all that

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Cue Richmeister the copy machine guy. I think OP should be paid way more, since he know how to handle the copy machine. Not only that, he is able to spot talents better then the guy running the place. Promote him to CEO, I say.

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Believe it or not, the investment banks make money and are not paying high compensation just to get people on the Internet outraged. If they pay someone 300K, you can bet that person is making them far more than that.

And if the employee brings in all that money, the banks are not very concerned about their abilities with a copy machine.

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I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.

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do ya (1,015.67kB)
Disclaimer
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

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bandyopa said:   Folks, I just read the following report, and it seems Wall Street is back to pre-2007 life. MBAs from top schools are receiving ridiculous amount of compensation: $365,000, $317,000, $290,000 etc. with bonus. They were making $100,000, $65,000, $90,000 respectively pre-MBA. Reported in poet and quant's site (the most popular MBA news site) last Friday (10/21/2016):

http://poetsandquants.com/2016/10/21/new-data-mba-will-make-rich...

I have to tell you, the MOST unproductive, entitled, rude and arrogant, good for nothing, unethical, money hungry people I meet in my career are the newly minted MBAs from the top schools. These guys have zero ability to produce anything, have zero management skill, zero business skills, zero ability in any getting anything done (just ask them to make few copies 1-sided to 2-sided, 1-slanted-staple, in the machine at the corner during an interview (after showing them twice how to do it), and you will see what I am talking about), but they think they know everything better than anyone around, and they deserve to take the leadership role and make changes. Top schools just tell them that they are the leader of the future in exchange of staggeringly high tuition. I am surprised to see that these guys are back again. My understanding was that 2007-09 crisis wiped out the MBA culture. Clearly I was wrong!
 


And why do you care? Why should we care?

The competition to get into these schools is fierce. The competition to get IB gigs is even more fierce.


You sound jealous.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

  I'm guessing you never lived in New York.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

  Maybe for you. For some in 1990 it was not much - http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/26/business/quick-who-d-have-trou...
 

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wilked said:   
jerosen said:   only 12 people have base salaries over 200k:
http://poetsandquants.com/2016/02/08/highest-lowest-paid-mbas-of... 

TransparentMBA says the median total compensation (salary, bonus + stock) is $220k

Not much to get outraged about.

OP's opinions that these people are all bumbling arrogant entitled idiots who can't run a copy machine makes me think he has an ax to grind here.

  And they are often working 60+ hr weeks.  

People often miss that...compared to a 40 hr week job they have a built in 50% "overtime" bonus.  If you were to offer me two jobs, one at $150K (40 hr workweek) or $220K (60 hr workweek) I would choose the first every time, work life balance and all that

  
Yeah, the trick is that they never TELL you its a 60 hour week and salary.  They tell you its "usually" 40, and that you can even work some from home or take days off when its slow.  Then you get there and the guy that left was super organized and COULD manage it - while you are new and far less efficient.  Then you get asked to work (rotational or "on call") on some weekends...  things get busy on a project and suddenly you are scheduled to work EVERY Saturday.

Maybe in some fantasyland of 9-4 offices they will say 40 and mean it...  otherwise unless you KNOW someone at the company you never know going in how the work really is as a salaried employee.  Get this...  recruiters LIE, or make up things in the absence of facts.  Even when the work is light enough that you COULD take a few days off your boss will want you in the  office punching clock so that HIS boss doesn't reduce headcount.  A lot depends on where you fall into the power structure - as a salary technical its usually "mandatory appearance" every week PLUS surges.  Occasionally we would get "comp days" but not for just working a weekend -- it had to be a special case where it was "offered" as an incentive or an apology.   

To be fair, a LOT depends on your management type, if its an Asian led company (particularly India) then Salary is more like minimum of 40.  Project based workloads surge, particularly at the end of a month or quarter -- just PLAN on 50 hours those weeks.

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BostonOne said:   rufflesinc said:   
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

  I'm guessing you never lived in New York.

nyc median income is 50k. you want a few more violins?

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svap said:   rufflesinc said:   
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

  Maybe for you. For some in 1990 it was not much - http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/26/business/quick-who-d-have-trou...
 

Well played

rated:
One more caveat that doesn't get mentioned in the salary survey. Most of the guys/gals getting 250k+ offers have already worked in Investment Banks as Analyst for 2yrs. So these folks already have Wall Street experience. If someone from Main Street gets an MBA Finance from Wharton and hopes to land these high pay jobs will be surprised. These Main Street folks will get offers at Mid to lower end of the Wall Street range.

Of course everybody will sync up in 2yrs, if they all are gainfully employed.

rated:
bandyopa said:   Folks, I just read the following report, and it seems Wall Street is back to pre-2007 life. MBAs from top schools are receiving ridiculous amount of compensation: $365,000, $317,000, $290,000 etc. with bonus. They were making $100,000, $65,000, $90,000 respectively pre-MBA. Reported in poet and quant's site (the most popular MBA news site) last Friday (10/21/2016):

http://poetsandquants.com/2016/10/21/new-data-mba-will-make-rich... 

I have to tell you, the MOST unproductive, entitled, rude and arrogant, good for nothing, unethical, money hungry people I meet in my career are the newly minted MBAs from the top schools. These guys have zero ability to produce anything, have zero management skill, zero business skills, zero ability in any getting anything done (just ask them to make few copies 1-sided to 2-sided, 1-slanted-staple, in the machine at the corner during an interview (after showing them twice how to do it), and you will see what I am talking about), but they think they know everything better than anyone around, and they deserve to take the leadership role and make changes. Top schools just tell them that they are the leader of the future in exchange of staggeringly high tuition. I am surprised to see that these guys are back again. My understanding was that 2007-09 crisis wiped out the MBA culture. Clearly I was wrong!


Only the foolish goto Wall St for the quick bucks--it's the sort of work that you can only be successful at it if you love it and it takes a good decade to really hit the seven figures.  I have classmates who are there now & they earn seven figures.  They probably never needed to learn how to run a copier because that is some lower level clerical task where if they can't find the clerk they have a middle-manager like you.

The fact that you think those clerical skills are so important sets off the troll-dar.  Apply to a bunch of top schools & didn't get in?  Better luck next year.  
 

rated:
wilked said:     And they are often working 60+ hr weeks.  

People often miss that...compared to a 40 hr week job they have a built in 50% "overtime" bonus.  If you were to offer me two jobs, one at $150K (40 hr workweek) or $220K (60 hr workweek) I would choose the first every time, work life balance and all that

  
this x 1000!

i actually had to make a very similar decision recently.  tech company vs a finance-related company.  as soon as one of the people i was speaking with told me the regular hours are 8-6 - with no regular telecommuting to boot - i noped out real hard

we're not the only ones, either.  their recruiter reached out to me again over a month later sounding very desperate, asking for referrals, saying money was no object.  other people obviously feel the same way re: quality of life, and at least for me, at least a partial remote work schedule is absolutely mandatory

but hey, more power to the guys that want to spend crazy long work weeks and bring in the big $$$.  i think some people actually enjoy it

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60 hours sounds like a VERY light week for IB.

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rufflesinc said:   
BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

  I'm guessing you never lived in New York.

nyc median income is 50k. you want a few more violins?

  
You have obviously never lived there then, when someone says "NYC" they generally mean "Manhattan"  -- your statistic conflates what the official meaning is and what people MEAN when they say a job is in NYC.  If you work in the Bronx then you don't say "NYC" you say you work in the Bronx.  Same with all the boroughs -- find that same figure WITHOUT all the low cost area wages dragging the median down and just give it for MANHATTAN.  (nobody single who makes 200K+ is going to live in Jersey, or Queens, or anywhere else)  

Try this one, its by area:  http://www.refinery29.com/nyc-median-income  also there is this one about middle class leve (not fully aggreeing with it, but its a good reference : http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/realestate/what-is-middle-clas...

rated:
RedWolfe01 said:   rufflesinc said:   
BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

  I'm guessing you never lived in New York.

nyc median income is 50k. you want a few more violins?

  
You have obviously never lived there then, when someone says "NYC" they generally mean "Manhattan"  -- your statistic conflates what the official meaning is and what people MEAN when they say a job is in NYC.  If you work in the Bronx then you don't say "NYC" you say you work in the Bronx.  Same with all the boroughs -- find that same figure WITHOUT all the low cost area wages dragging the median down and just give it for MANHATTAN.  (nobody single who makes 200K+ is going to live in Jersey, or Queens, or anywhere else)  

Try this one, its by area:  http://www.refinery29.com/nyc-median-income  also there is this one about middle class leve (not fully aggreeing with it, but its a good reference : http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/realestate/what-is-middle-clas...
so 100k. which is a third of 300k.

enjoy the violins?

rated:
Can one of you please explain to me the purpose of this thread. Is it just for the OP to express his opinion that some MBA's make too much money?

Should I start a new thread saying that plumbers are overpaid?

rated:
SangioveseW said:   
Should I start a new thread saying that plumbers are overpaid?

  what is salary of overpaid plumber?

rated:
The worthless ones costs $100/h but they do have to work in worst of the places. Seriously, enlighten me, WTH the IB folks does with 60hr/week? Was it stupid meetings or spreadsheet crunching? or is it something else?

rated:
delhel said:   The worthless ones costs $100/h but they do have to work in worst of the places. Seriously, enlighten me, WTH the IB folks does with 60hr/week? Was it stupid meetings or spreadsheet crunching? or is it something else?
  Probably meetings with dancing girls and reading posts like yours with $1,000/bottle of wine.

rated:
I got the impression it wasn't so much that they had 60 hours of work for investment banking to do but rather that the timing was unpredictable. Like having to stay late frequently to redo spreadsheets and slide decks. Or travel time to client meetings on top of a busy week. But these were reports from a first-year associate.

Or if you were in sales/trading, you have a full week plus nightly obligations to entertain the clients your desk covered. I don't imagine the markets gonna open late just because you had a big night out.

I do wonder if a few rare ones manage to keep a cheap lifestyle along the way and amass their f you number relatively early. Keep a modest apartment and avoid starting a family?  I can't imagine making that kind of money working those hours and accepting a 1 hour commute to the outer boroughs though, 

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
RedWolfe01 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
BostonOne said:   
rufflesinc said:   
TravelerMSY said:   I'll bet a lot of them are probably living paycheck to paycheck. Keep in mind they're not paying 300k in Dallas. Its NYC.
  i got 5 of the world's tiniest violins playing saddest songs in surround.  300k is a lot even for NYC

  I'm guessing you never lived in New York.

nyc median income is 50k. you want a few more violins?

  
You have obviously never lived there then, when someone says "NYC" they generally mean "Manhattan"  -- your statistic conflates what the official meaning is and what people MEAN when they say a job is in NYC.  If you work in the Bronx then you don't say "NYC" you say you work in the Bronx.  Same with all the boroughs -- find that same figure WITHOUT all the low cost area wages dragging the median down and just give it for MANHATTAN.  (nobody single who makes 200K+ is going to live in Jersey, or Queens, or anywhere else)  

Try this one, its by area:  http://www.refinery29.com/nyc-median-income  also there is this one about middle class leve (not fully aggreeing with it, but its a good reference : http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/realestate/what-is-middle-clas...

so 100k. which is a third of 300k.

enjoy the violins?

  
Let me double the basis for YOUR cost of living and see if you still say "enjoy the violins" -- 3 times lower-middle class salary versus 6 times is a lot of difference.      

I understand that its not NEARLY as bad as it used to be with things like Amazon Pantry and a few new supermarkets.  The two heavy expenses in Manhattan are housing and food -- and a car is a luxury.  Generally you had to drive out to the boroughs if you wanted to go to a supermarket or big box store -- and to do that you needed a car or to hire a service.  Most "grocery stores" in the city are small and expensive.   

Heck, my friends there scheduled a one-day car rental once a month to do shopping runs -- it was far cheaper than owning a car, plus paying parking, plus insurance.  My company just paid for taxis and van service there, we didn't get our usual rental car at all.

Skipping 5 Messages...
rated:
rufflesinc said:   
jerosen said:   Anyone can live paycheck to paycheck if they spend their entire paycheck and don't save anything. That doesn't really tell us much.
  well, let's put it this way. if you made $20k and lived in manhattan, you'd live paycheck to paycheck no matter how frugal. what is the cutoff where you can start saving ?

  I would imagine the homeless make more than $20k/year living in Manhattan...

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