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Washington just increased its minimum wage to $13.50, will be phased in by 2020 (from $9.xx now)
Oregon had already increased its minimum wage to $14.75 by 2022 (in Portland metro area).

In both states, servers/waitstaff make full minimum wage, in addition to tips. edit for clarity: these states do not permit the lower federal tippable minimum wage.

Now my question.

Assume it is 2022 and the new minimum wage is fully in effect. What percent tip will you add to your restaurant bill, and why?

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Keep in mind that as wages go up, someone has to pay for this. At first it will be the establishment owner, who then wi... (more)

kaaria (Nov. 25, 2016 @ 10:56a) |

Have you read this thread at all? 20% has never been "the standard." The standard is 15%.

scripta (Nov. 28, 2016 @ 12:46p) |

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Whatever I feel like. I don't change my tipping habits based on what state I am in.

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buck fiddy

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Isn't there a different minimum wage for gratuity-centric jobs?

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jaytrader said:   Isn't there a different minimum wage for gratuity-centric jobs?
  only federally. the states can set it higher, as they did here

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rufflesinc said:   
jaytrader said:   Isn't there a different minimum wage for gratuity-centric jobs?
  only federally. the states can set it higher, as they did here

  Right, but my point is that just because a state has a higher minimum wage than the FMW, doesn't mean that the service worker min wage is equivalent. 

ETA: https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

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rufflesinc said:   
jaytrader said:   Isn't there a different minimum wage for gratuity-centric jobs?
  only federally. the states can set it higher, as they did here

To be clear, the federal minimum tippable wage is much lower than the standard minimum wage. Off the top of my head, I recall it is $2.70. In my state (WA), it will soon be $13.50.

 

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No idea, but that guy's wife will probably still tip too much.

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forbin4040 said:   Whatever I feel like. I don't change my tipping habits based on what state I am in.Do you also not change your tipping habits based on what country you are in?

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You should understand that people who might get tipped are not getting paid minimum salary.
Their tips are calculated towards their salary.
For example, I used to deliver food 12 years ago. The minimum salary was $5.15/hr.
I was paid $3/hr, and another $2.15 was written as I was getting paid in tips.

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yuriym said:   You should understand that people who might get tipped are not getting paid minimum salary.
Their tips are calculated towards their salary.
For example, I used to deliver food 12 years ago. The minimum salary was $5.15/hr.
I was paid $3/hr, and another $2.15 was written as I was getting paid in tips.

 That's not how it works in every state. 

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It won't change. People will still tip ~20% normal.

I'm in OR. Our minimum wage here in OR is already $9.75 and servers already get 100% of that plus 100% of any tips and the norm is to tip 20%.
Not much different in WA or CA really.

Nobody tips less because of the minimum wage law differences. 20% is standard nationally.

I'll continue to tip 20% as expected.

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I tip based on the quality of service I receive not based on the place or state I'm in.

​exception is that I travel a lot and there are a lot of places I go who have minimum socially acceptable tip rates.

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yuriym said:   You should understand that people who might get tipped are not getting paid minimum salary.
Their tips are calculated towards their salary.
For example, I used to deliver food 12 years ago. The minimum salary was $5.15/hr.
I was paid $3/hr, and another $2.15 was written as I was getting paid in tips.

  
In Oregon that isn't the case. The minimum wage is the minimum wage with no separate tipped minimum wage and no ability to assume or count tips as part of that wage. My roommate for a number of years managed a restaurant in downtown Portland and after tips it was not uncommon for his servers to make more per hour than him because they'd often be making more than minimum wage and getting $10-20 an hour in tips and he worked 60+ hours a week as a salaried employee. I still tip regularly but have no problem being on the lower end of things (+/- 10%) rather than the 15% or even 20% that might be common someplace with a high cost of living and a low separate tipped minimum wage.

The west coast happens to be the top three in minimum wage with no separate tipped minimum wage and a high minimum wage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States

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psychtobe said:   Assume it is 2022 and the new minimum wage is fully in effect. What percent tip will you add to your restaurant bill, and why?I think the fact that in 2022 minimum wage will be higher than in 2016 is completely irrelevant. It's still minimum wage, which just tries to keep up with inflation. I doubt that anyone's opinion on tipping would or should be swayed by the slow minimum wage increases.

Only the fact that in many states tipped employees make full minimum wage before tips should be a factor in one's tipping decision. I can sympathize with workers in the states where tipped minimum wage is less than full minimum wage, but it's a problem that feeds itself -- tipped wage only exists because tipping is a social norm in this country. I think tipping is stupid (but I still participate because of social norms).

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jaytrader said:   
rufflesinc said:   
jaytrader said:   Isn't there a different minimum wage for gratuity-centric jobs?
  only federally. the states can set it higher, as they did here

  Right, but my point is that just because a state has a higher minimum wage than the FMW, doesn't mean that the service worker min wage is equivalent. 

ETA: https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm


Your ETA link shows the specifics.   So I assume you answered your question with that link.
  
7 states require the same minimum wage for tipped employees as everyone else.   

Its up to each state to decide if their minimum wage law has an exception for people who get tips and if so how much it is.    7 states require full minimum, 20+ states have a different defined minimum above the federal $2.13    The rest of the states that only pay the 2.13 minimum are in the minority.

 

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jerosen said:   It won't change. People will still tip ~20% normal.

I'm in OR. Our minimum wage here in OR is already $9.75 and servers already get 100% of that plus 100% of any tips and the norm is to tip 20%.
Not much different in WA or CA really.

Nobody tips less because of the minimum wage law differences. 20% is standard nationally.

I'll continue to tip 20% as expected.
You can do whatever you want, obv, but who told you that 20% is the norm? Why does the norm keep creeping up? It used to be and I suspect it still is 15% (with a 10%-20% range guidance). Even restaurants that include the tip for parties of 6 or more use 18%.

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scripta said:   
psychtobe said:   Assume it is 2022 and the new minimum wage is fully in effect. What percent tip will you add to your restaurant bill, and why?
I think the fact that in 2022 minimum wage will be higher than in 2016 is completely irrelevant. It's still minimum wage, which just tries to keep up with inflation. I doubt that anyone's opinion on tipping would or should be swayed by the slow minimum wage increases.

Only the fact that in many states tipped employees make full minimum wage before tips should be a factor in one's tipping decision. I can sympathize with workers in the states where tipped minimum wage is less than full minimum wage, but it's a problem that feeds itself -- tipped wage only exists because tipping is a social norm in this country. I think tipping is stupid (but I still participate because of social norms).

  I am giving red because that is not what the OR and WA minimum wage increases purport to do. Without getting into the politics, the minimum wage increase was clearly advertised as a 'living wage'. Yes, there will be some inflation between now and 2020 but not enough to justify a 45% increase in the minimum wage. Note that WA's minimum wage is already inflation-adjusted due to Initiative 688 and it has risen from $4.90 when I-688 was passed in 1998 to $9.47 today. Now in 3.5 years it will rise from $9.47 to $13.50.

In other words, advocates for this wage increase have claimed this is a living wage. A living wage does not need 20% tips added on, in my opinion. In fact, the implication (to me) of a living wage is that no tip is necessary at all. However, I am soliciting opinions as I have not decided on my own personal course of action in 2020. Right now, my thought is to decrease my tips from around 17-18% to around 10%, consistent with some European countries. But I am still mulling it over.

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scripta said:   
psychtobe said:   Assume it is 2022 and the new minimum wage is fully in effect. What percent tip will you add to your restaurant bill, and why?
I think the fact that in 2022 minimum wage will be higher than in 2016 is completely irrelevant. It's still minimum wage, which just tries to keep up with inflation. I doubt that anyone's opinion on tipping would or should be swayed by the slow minimum wage increases.

Only the fact that in many states tipped employees make full minimum wage before tips should be a factor in one's tipping decision. I can sympathize with workers in the states where tipped minimum wage is less than full minimum wage, but it's a problem that feeds itself -- tipped wage only exists because tipping is a social norm in this country. I think tipping is stupid (but I still participate because of social norms).

  In Oregon, it's going to be a 10% increase each year.

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If it's indeed a "living wage" and it's adjusted for inflation, then I agree with you. Some of the states and local minimum wage proposals I've read in the past were not inflation-adjusted, so I don't know all the details.

I'd also be inclined to decrease my tips in "living wage" areas to 5%-10%. I think we need to make a list of those.

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Once these crazy minimum wage laws go into effect we'll soon see a lot more automation. I imagine patrons will be placing their order using a tablet... I recently went to a restaurant in Manhattan with this setup.

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brettdoyle said:   Once these crazy minimum wage laws go into effect we'll soon see a lot more automation. I imagine patrons will be placing their order using a tablet... I recently went to a restaurant in Manhattan with this setup.
  if a state can pass higher min wage, then they can pass tax credits and higher income brackets

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I would give them 10% if I was in their woods. I already give the take out girl and the European waiters 10% when I visit them.

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jerosen said:   It won't change. People will still tip ~20% normal.

I'm in OR. Our minimum wage here in OR is already $9.75 and servers already get 100% of that plus 100% of any tips and the norm is to tip 20%.
Not much different in WA or CA really.

Nobody tips less because of the minimum wage law differences. 20% is standard nationally.

I'll continue to tip 20% as expected.

  When did 15% become 20%?

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jerosen said:   It won't change. People will still tip ~20% normal.

I'm in OR. Our minimum wage here in OR is already $9.75 and servers already get 100% of that plus 100% of any tips and the norm is to tip 20%.
Not much different in WA or CA really.

Nobody tips less because of the minimum wage law differences. 20% is standard nationally.

I'll continue to tip 20% as expected.

  Not sure where you got your 20% from for CA but the last article I read says that 18% is the norm in Los Angeles. That is also the rate nationally as well. You also have no sales tax on restaurant meals in OR so that may factor into your decision.

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Can't forget to change the count on the sign.
 

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The food is great in Portland but the average level of service is indifferent. Especially when compared with France or Japan, the service is an abominable mess. No way I'm tipping 18% on a living wage for that. Now if the service miraculously reaches world class standards, that will be a different story.

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stanolshefski said:   
scripta said:   
psychtobe said:   Assume it is 2022 and the new minimum wage is fully in effect. What percent tip will you add to your restaurant bill, and why?
I think the fact that in 2022 minimum wage will be higher than in 2016 is completely irrelevant. It's still minimum wage, which just tries to keep up with inflation. I doubt that anyone's opinion on tipping would or should be swayed by the slow minimum wage increases.

Only the fact that in many states tipped employees make full minimum wage before tips should be a factor in one's tipping decision. I can sympathize with workers in the states where tipped minimum wage is less than full minimum wage, but it's a problem that feeds itself -- tipped wage only exists because tipping is a social norm in this country. I think tipping is stupid (but I still participate because of social norms).

  In Oregon, it's going to be a 10% increase each year.

  
No.

Portland metro rates are : 

2016  = $9.75
2017 = $11.25
2018 = $12
2019 - $12.50
2020 = $13.25
2021 = $14
2022 = $14.75

and then adjusted along with inflation after 2022.

We'll get about 15% hike for 2017 and then 4-6% jumps for 2018-2022.

10% annual hikes would give us  $19/hr in 2022.   
 

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I guess I should have said 20% for good service.

15-20% is the norm.

Average tip is 18% according to a poll :
http://nrn.com/blog/average-us-diner-tips-18-percent-study-indic...

I"m almost always tipping 20% as I guess I'm pretty lenient on what I consider good service or maybe I"m just lucky (and/or choosy in where I eat in the first place).

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We should stage a national no tipping month and watch restaurant owners scramble to retain help. Perhaps when the smoke clears we'll have a service-included system. The current system is blatantly unfair for both the customers and the servers, with all kinds of hidden racist and sexist biases. 

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scripta said:   
forbin4040 said:   Whatever I feel like. I don't change my tipping habits based on what state I am in.
Do you also not change your tipping habits based on what country you are in?

  This is a loaded and potentially relevant question. Oregon and California are looking to leave the US

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travel, and the only ones who truly suffer are the workers. As long as minimum wage is enforced, I would only tip of service was above and beyond. 

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tennis8363 said:   
scripta said:   
forbin4040 said:   Whatever I feel like. I don't change my tipping habits based on what state I am in.
Do you also not change your tipping habits based on what country you are in?

  This is a loaded and potentially relevant question. Oregon and California are looking to leave the US

  Of course they are. That way Jon Stewart, et al, do not look like hypocrites for saying they will leave the country if Trump is elected. Maybe New York needs to secede as well for Rev Al Sharpton to keep his promise.

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What do people in Seattle do where min wage is $15? I went to a restaurant there and they didn't permit tipping. Instead, they added 20% post tax to every bill which I thought was ridiculous.

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jerosen said:   Can't forget to change the count on the sign.
  They have a sign here about the number of days without someone mentioning Crown Vic?

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Uhh... well i used to work in the service industry and I ALWAYS tip at least 47%. Anyone who doesn't tip at least 47% is Hitler.

And baristas and bartenders - I always tip at least $17 per drink...

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atikovi said:   
jerosen said:   Can't forget to change the count on the sign.
  They have a sign here about the number of days without someone mentioning Crown Vic?

  
The Crown Vic sign is in hours.
 

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TravelerMSY said:   We should stage a national no tipping month and watch restaurant owners scramble to retain help. Perhaps when the smoke clears we'll have a service-included system. The current system is blatantly unfair for both the customers and the servers, with all kinds of hidden racist and sexist biases. Nah, a month isn't long enough. We need a national no tipping campaign to spread the truth and change social norms.

Skipping 105 Messages...
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kaaria said:   Keep in mind that as wages go up, someone has to pay for this. At first it will be the establishment owner, who then will pass on the added costs by increasing prices. So now, you are in essence, paying twice for the minimum wage increase. First by the increased prices of the menu, and then the standard 15% or 20% that you normally tip as you are tipping on higher check.

I have already decreased my tipping from standard 20% to 15%.
Have you read this thread at all? 20% has never been "the standard." The standard is 15%.

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