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CNN: http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/15/pf/taxes/trump-tax-plan/index.ht...

A few quotes:

There are some top-line similarities between the House GOP plan and Trump's. Among them, a bigger standard deduction, only three income tax brackets and generally lower income tax rates for individuals and businesses. And in the latest iteration of Trump's tax plan, he already raised the income tax rates he originally proposed (10%, 20%, 25%) to conform to those in the House plan (12%, 25%, 33%). 

One example of the "hard stuff" is which tax breaks to keep and which ones to kill. One reason why the House plan is much less expensive than Trump's is that it eliminates all but two deductions -- those for mortgage interest and charitable contributions, Pomerleau notes. Trump's plan, by contrast, caps the value of itemized deductions at $100,000 for singles or $200,000 for joint filers, a more costly proposal.

There's also likely to be some negotiations over the tax rates for small businesses and partnerships. Trump wants to lower the business tax rate to 15% from 35% for corporations and 39.6% for sole proprietorships and partnerships. But the House plan would cut the business tax rate to 25%, 10 percentage points higher than Trump.

There are a couple of areas where there's likely to be resounding agreement between Trump and the House. Getting rid of all taxes associated with Obamacare, which they plan to repeal, and killing off the estate tax, long a GOP priority.

 

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Most Recent Posts
you are losing personal exemptions as well (4050 for yourself and for each dependent). so may not be that much of a gain... (more)

averwind (Nov. 17, 2016 @ 1:39p) |

You can do that every other year.  That's the whole idea of bunching.  If I can take over $20k and move it out of one ye... (more)

supersnoop00 (Nov. 17, 2016 @ 1:49p) |

I did look.  "Provide tax relief to working families from the rising costs they face" says very little.  All the specific... (more)

Lugs (Nov. 17, 2016 @ 9:45p) |

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Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

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It's all hot air until it happens. Trump's campaign version favors corporations and big business at the expense of small business especially the "Mom and Pops".

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The rules are only as good as their enforcement. What are they going to do with the IRS?

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rufflesinc said:   The rules are only as good as their enforcement. What are they going to do with the IRS?
  IRS budget will be cut, that part I'm sure about.

/someone slap me so I can wake up.

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Rubl said:   ... he has felt them in the wind ...
  At first glance I thought this was a typo, but maybe not...

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SangioveseW said:   CNN: http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/15/pf/taxes/trump-tax-plan/index.ht...

A few quotes:

There are some top-line similarities between the House GOP plan and Trump's. Among them, a bigger standard deduction, only three income tax brackets and generally lower income tax rates for individuals and businesses. And in the latest iteration of Trump's tax plan, he already raised the income tax rates he originally proposed (10%, 20%, 25%) to conform to those in the House plan (12%, 25%, 33%). 

One example of the "hard stuff" is which tax breaks to keep and which ones to kill. One reason why the House plan is much less expensive than Trump's is that it eliminates all but two deductions -- those for mortgage interest and charitable contributions, Pomerleau notes. Trump's plan, by contrast, caps the value of itemized deductions at $100,000 for singles or $200,000 for joint filers, a more costly proposal.

There's also likely to be some negotiations over the tax rates for small businesses and partnerships. Trump wants to lower the business tax rate to 15% from 35% for corporations and 39.6% for sole proprietorships and partnerships. But the House plan would cut the business tax rate to 25%, 10 percentage points higher than Trump.

There are a couple of areas where there's likely to be resounding agreement between Trump and the House. Getting rid of all taxes associated with Obamacare, which they plan to repeal, and killing off the estate tax, long a GOP priority.

 


Very little of this will actually happen. The corp tax reform seems most likely.

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beatme said:   
Rubl said:   ... he has felt them in the wind ...
  At first glance I thought this was a typo, but maybe not...

  LMAO.  It's a typo, says my non-subconscious part of the brain.

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Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.
 I'm not his constituency, but I don't think that there's all that much doubt that individual tax cuts are coming, and are very likely to become retroactive (retroactive because they won't be passed until several months into 2017) to January 1, 2017. Trump and the House R's seem to be in agreement on the tax brackets, so the biggest disagreement is about the itemized deductions.

To me, the disagreement about the itemized deductions isn't as significant as it seems on the surface. Trump's proposal would cap itemized deductions at $100K/single or $200K/joint filers, but would leave the AMT in place. The House R's would remove most itemized deductions, except for mortgage and charitable giving deductions, but also get rid of the AMT. For those in the AMT territory, the difference between the two is fairly limited, as the AMT disallows most other deductions anyway. For people whose incomes are lower than the AMT territory and who are not itemizing, they would benefit under either proposal from a larger standard deduction.

Hence, to me, the House R's proposal appears to primarily disadvantage (vis a vis the Trump proposal) those whose incomes exceed the AMT territory.

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It's WAY early to figure out which promises Trump won't honor but make no mistake.  Most of the promises will not be delivered on at all or will be a fraction of the original proposal.  Since I'm a moderate, I'm pretty happy about that.  I honestly didn't vote for him but I'm liking a lot of what I'm seeing so far.

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I doubt it's a coincidence that the House plan would eliminate the deduction for state income tax, something which primarily benefits upper earners in blue states.

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well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.

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cestmoi123 said:   I doubt it's a coincidence that the House plan would eliminate the deduction for state income tax, something which primarily benefits upper earners in blue states.
 Don't be so cynical. The House plan would also eliminate the property tax deduction, and Texas, with its gigantic property taxes, is about as Republican as it gets. The overall plan is to streamline and simplify the tax code by eliminating most tax deductions, while reducing the overall tax liability by lowering the marginal tax rates.

Eliminating most tax deductions has been recommended by numerous bipartisan tax task forces over the years. For instance, the elimination of the deduction for state and local taxes was previously recommended (https://www.cbo.gov/budget-options/2013/44799 ) by the Joint Committee on Taxation back in '13.
averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house... 

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kriskos4 said:   Most of the promises will not be delivered on at all or will be a fraction of the original proposal. 
 

  You can say that of almost any politician.

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fwuser12 said:   
kriskos4 said:   Most of the promises will not be delivered on at all or will be a fraction of the original proposal. 
  You can say that of almost any politician.

  Obama beat his opponent's promise on unemployment

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fwuser12 said:   
kriskos4 said:   Most of the promises will not be delivered on at all or will be a fraction of the original proposal. 
  You can say that of almost any politician.

  
Trump's no politician...he was very bombastic and repeated his key promises on a daily basis.  And he's got a sympathetic Congress, really no excuse he can't deliver on every promise except tearing up NAFTA and scrapping Iran deal...nearly impossible to do.  But he won't because he's pragmatic and will hopefully do things that matter.  

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averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house...

  Trump's version is different with $30k standard deduction for married joint filers. Still Real estate tax + state income tax deduction can easily beat that deduction for some states. With those 2 gone highly unlikely anyone will itemize for mortgage interest deduction. So all in all if your real estate tax + state/local taxes + mortgage interest + personal exemptions is above $30k you will feel the burn. Who knows may be he will go back to $50k standard deduction like he said before September.

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averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.

Any elimination of itemized deductions will be paired with raising the standard deduction greatly.

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House plan also increase the Child Tax credit from 1000 to 1500 so a sap like me who has a bunch of kids would probably come out ahead. Especially if you are several years into your mortgage and the interest deduction no longer provides the punch that it did in early years of financing... just take the larger standard deduction.

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averwind said:   
 
averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house...

  Trump's version is different with $30k standard deduction for married joint filers. Still Real estate tax + state income tax deduction can easily beat that deduction for some states. With those 2 gone highly unlikely anyone will itemize for mortgage interest deduction. So all in all if your real estate tax + state/local taxes + mortgage interest + personal exemptions is above $30k you will feel the burn. Who knows may be he will go back to $50k standard deduction like he said before September.

  
I think $30k is hard to touch to everyone but the elite class.  You have to buy a $1.5m+ house and then some other thing to get there.

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lotusgardener said:   
averwind said:   
 
averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house...

  Trump's version is different with $30k standard deduction for married joint filers. Still Real estate tax + state income tax deduction can easily beat that deduction for some states. With those 2 gone highly unlikely anyone will itemize for mortgage interest deduction. So all in all if your real estate tax + state/local taxes + mortgage interest + personal exemptions is above $30k you will feel the burn. Who knows may be he will go back to $50k standard deduction like he said before September.

  
I think $30k is hard to touch to everyone but the elite class.  You have to buy a $1.5m+ house and then some other thing to get there.

  but that depends if the house is in CA or TX ...

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Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

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I want to pay the same tax rate that Trump has had for the last several years. In fact I will even settle for the 13.9% that Romney paid.

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lotusgardener said:   
averwind said:   
 
averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house...

  Trump's version is different with $30k standard deduction for married joint filers. Still Real estate tax + state income tax deduction can easily beat that deduction for some states. With those 2 gone highly unlikely anyone will itemize for mortgage interest deduction. So all in all if your real estate tax + state/local taxes + mortgage interest + personal exemptions is above $30k you will feel the burn. Who knows may be he will go back to $50k standard deduction like he said before September.

  
I think $30k is hard to touch to everyone but the elite class.  You have to buy a $1.5m+ house and then some other thing to get there.

  
Its $30k versus the current $12k.   So thats $18k difference.    If your state income tax and property tax is $18k or more then you're coming out behind.

In OR we have no sales tax and our income tax and property taxes are higher.    I'm around $15k combined for income and property tax.  I'm not at that 18k level but getting very close.   Income is under $150k and the house is now worth around 600k

Is that "elite"?   
 

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My itemized deduction for 2015 was $33k. Nothing fancy, a bit less than a $500k home in TX.

I would lose some money under Trump's plan and a lot more under Ryan's. The tax rate cut better make up for it.

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Since my kids go to a private school, I think may have to consider the school tax portion of my property tax as a "charitable contribution"

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We need the Flat/Fair tax!!

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Xnarg1 said:   Since my kids go to a private school, I think may have to consider the school tax portion of my property tax as a "charitable contribution"
  i don't think it works that way

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lotusgardener said:   
averwind said:   
 
averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house...

  Trump's version is different with $30k standard deduction for married joint filers. Still Real estate tax + state income tax deduction can easily beat that deduction for some states. With those 2 gone highly unlikely anyone will itemize for mortgage interest deduction. So all in all if your real estate tax + state/local taxes + mortgage interest + personal exemptions is above $30k you will feel the burn. Who knows may be he will go back to $50k standard deduction like he said before September.

  
I think $30k is hard to touch to everyone but the elite class.  You have to buy a $1.5m+ house and then some other thing to get there.

  
$30k isn't THAT hard to touch.  Have a $750k mortgage at 4%, and you're there.  Make $200k/year, live in a blue state, could easily have $12-15k in income taxes.  

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bopc1996 said:   I want to pay the same tax rate that Trump has had for the last several years. In fact I will even settle for the 13.9% that Romney paid.
  If you want to pay the Romney effective rate do exactly what he did to achieve that - donate most of your income to charity. 

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Lugs said:   
Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

  Then you didn't look.  They all went to the middle /lower class (less than $250K in income, Upper classes paid more)
 

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Lugs said:   
Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

  I talked to half the people at my company (a tech company) and no one could recite to me one single specific policy position of either candidate. 99% of the people do not vote on policy. 

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jerosen said:   
lotusgardener said:   
averwind said:   
 
averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house...

  Trump's version is different with $30k standard deduction for married joint filers. Still Real estate tax + state income tax deduction can easily beat that deduction for some states. With those 2 gone highly unlikely anyone will itemize for mortgage interest deduction. So all in all if your real estate tax + state/local taxes + mortgage interest + personal exemptions is above $30k you will feel the burn. Who knows may be he will go back to $50k standard deduction like he said before September.

  
I think $30k is hard to touch to everyone but the elite class.  You have to buy a $1.5m+ house and then some other thing to get there.

  
Its $30k versus the current $12k.   So thats $18k difference.    If your state income tax and property tax is $18k or more then you're coming out behind.

In OR we have no sales tax and our income tax and property taxes are higher.    I'm around $15k combined for income and property tax.  I'm not at that 18k level but getting very close.   Income is under $150k and the house is now worth around 600k

Is that "elite"?   

  I know how you calculated $18K, but I don't see how it's relevant since you wouldn't pay income taxes on that first $30K in income.

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ellory said:   
Lugs said:   
Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

  Then you didn't look.  They all went to the middle /lower class (less than $250K in income, Upper classes paid more)

  and that's the problem with his voters - they didn't verify anything.

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user1337 said:   
Lugs said:   
Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

  I talked to half the people at my company (a tech company) and no one could recite to me one single specific policy position of either candidate. 99% of the people do not vote on policy. 

  build the wall. bring back manufacturing jobs. 

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user1337 said:   
bopc1996 said:   I want to pay the same tax rate that Trump has had for the last several years. In fact I will even settle for the 13.9% that Romney paid.
  If you want to pay the Romney effective rate do exactly what he did to achieve that - donate most of your income to charity. 

  carry interest

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rufflesinc said:   
user1337 said:   
Lugs said:   
Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

  I talked to half the people at my company (a tech company) and no one could recite to me one single specific policy position of either candidate. 99% of the people do not vote on policy. 

  build the wall. bring back manufacturing jobs. 

  I'm from a midwestern family who has been in the midwest for a few generations.  I can't believe these idiots believe manufacturing jobs are coming back.  The world has changed.

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stanolshefski said:   
jerosen said:   
lotusgardener said:   
averwind said:   
 
averwind said:   well if he is eliminating state income tax deduction and home tax deductions I may as well start considering to look for a job in an income taxless state... That is given he does not increase standard deduction to $30k of course.
Under the House plan, the standard deduction would increase from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.

Here's a link to the details and analysis of the House tax plan: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-2016-house...

  Trump's version is different with $30k standard deduction for married joint filers. Still Real estate tax + state income tax deduction can easily beat that deduction for some states. With those 2 gone highly unlikely anyone will itemize for mortgage interest deduction. So all in all if your real estate tax + state/local taxes + mortgage interest + personal exemptions is above $30k you will feel the burn. Who knows may be he will go back to $50k standard deduction like he said before September.

  
I think $30k is hard to touch to everyone but the elite class.  You have to buy a $1.5m+ house and then some other thing to get there.

  
Its $30k versus the current $12k.   So thats $18k difference.    If your state income tax and property tax is $18k or more then you're coming out behind.

In OR we have no sales tax and our income tax and property taxes are higher.    I'm around $15k combined for income and property tax.  I'm not at that 18k level but getting very close.   Income is under $150k and the house is now worth around 600k

Is that "elite"?   

  I know how you calculated $18K, but I don't see how it's relevant since you wouldn't pay income taxes on that first $30K in income.

  
My reply was relevant to the guy I replied to who was saying 30k is "hard to touch" outside the elite class.

Going from a $12k standard deduction to a $30k standard deduction is relevant if you also lose deductions you can itemize that would put you over 30k.

For example:

Today the standard deduction is 12k and someone can itemize 14k of mortgage interest, 10k of state taxes and 10k of property taxes for 34k of itemized deductions.
If they then change to a 30k standard deduction and get rid of deductions for state and property tax then you've got the choice of 30k standard or 14k itemized.   
This person goes from 34k of deductions to 30k of deductions.

Yes you can still deduct 30k but you can no longer deduct the 34k you were deducting.

I don't think there are a lot of people in that situation but its not a given that the changes are a net gain for everyone.   
 

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Xnarg1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
user1337 said:   
Lugs said:   
Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

  I talked to half the people at my company (a tech company) and no one could recite to me one single specific policy position of either candidate. 99% of the people do not vote on policy. 

  build the wall. bring back manufacturing jobs. 

  I'm from a midwestern family who has been in the midwest for a few generations.  I can't believe these idiots believe manufacturing jobs are coming back.  The world has changed.

  in kind of a sick, apocalyptic way, donald trump is uniquely positioned to make them come back.

Skipping 16 Messages...
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ellory said:   
Lugs said:   
Rubl said:   Sadly, his constituency won't even recognize that he has felt them in the wind with this tax proposal.

What percentage of his constituency would you estimate actually believe that the tax cuts would end up being that yuge?  I'd guess that most people believe we'll see SOME kind of tax cuts, but don't expect them to be to that extent.  I didn't see ANY tax cuts even proposed on Clinton's end for any income level.

  Then you didn't look.  They all went to the middle /lower class (less than $250K in income, Upper classes paid more)

  
I did look.  "Provide tax relief to working families from the rising costs they face" says very little.  All the specifics are in the barrage of policies promising to increase taxes for the upper class.  Is this what you were referring to as far as a promise of tax cuts?

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