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rated:
Let me start off by saying that it is INCREDIBLY crucial to my employment that I not receive many moving violations. With that said, I've found myself in a few situations that I need help with.  I drive about 30,000 miles per year between work and personal reasons, and I really don't speed. These have all occurred in Ohio.

Scenario 1: This happened about a year and a half ago. Essentially, I was given a speeding citation. When I went to court with every intention of fighting it, the prosecutor made me a deal. He had looked at my record, and said it had been 4-5 years since I had a violation. He said I could plea down to a charge that had no points, or moving violation. I made sure to ask about the moving violation, since that was important to me. He reiterated that it was not. Lo and behold, it was a moving violation. I wrote a letter to the mayor a while back, who told me to get in contact with the judge. 

Scenario 2: Last week I was driving home on a single-lane rural road that had a 55 mph speed limit, and was behind a slow-moving transit for some time. I had the dotted lines in the road, so I waited for a moment to pass him. When I had the opportunity, I saw in the distance there was a car coming. The car wasn't too close where there wasn't safe clearance, but obviously, I don't want to be in the oncoming lane for long. So I accelerated about 20 mph over the limit to pass him. Sure enough, behind the oncoming car, was a police cruiser driving. Apparently his radar was on to clock in oncoming drivers. He saw my speed and pulled me over. Personally, I thought it was legal to exceed the speed to pass on a single-lane road.

Scenario 3: Very recently I was driving through an industrial area that had a speed trap. It went from 45 to 35, and there was a cop waiting there to nail everyone who didn't decelerate to 35 fast enough. He got me going 48. I watched him nail someone after me.

Like I said previously, it is crucial that I get rid of all, or any of these. What should I do? Obviously, I am not paying any waivers. Should I lawyer up? Should I pray on the cops not showing up? Should I plea for driving school? The money is not of concern to me, but I would like to try to keep it as reasonable as possible. I am prepared for anything. Some expert help would mean the world to me, thank you.

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Most Recent Posts
no exceptions to speeding laws when passing?

here's an exception in WY

ZOOOOOOOM!

tazibot (Nov. 22, 2016 @ 10:03p) |

Apparently the law enforcement and legislature in Wyoming feel the same as I do (despite limiting to 10mph over).  Law e... (more)

Dus10 (Nov. 22, 2016 @ 10:29p) |

what's funny is somebody who likes your message is already cautious.  the whole "if you speed, you'll die" propaganda re... (more)

tazibot (Nov. 22, 2016 @ 11:03p) |

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rated:
1 is gone. No points should mean that you aren't impacted by the tickets.

If it is really this INCREDIBLY crucial to mitigate the effects of these tickets, hire an attorney. He will plea them down to a nonmoving violation or its equivalent.

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1 should be gone. Did you get anything in writing when you pled to the charge?
2 is dependent on state law. I don't see anything about Ohio allowing you to exceed the speed limit to pass a vehicle. As far as I know most states state that posted limit is posted limit, regardless of if you're passing or not.
3 is the same. Speed traps are revenue cash cows, and as long as you were in the 35 zone when clocked (if it's a laser the cop usually puts the distance on the notes), then speeding is speeding.

As alamo said, attorney is recommended for 2 and 3, and maybe even one if it was in fact reduced to a non-moving violation and the court didn't fix it.

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Invest in a top of line radar detector. Deduct from taxes as business expense.

Use waze whenever driving.

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Ohio sucks in this regard, really, really, badly.

Don't trust that the cop cited you as what you did being a valid violation... many cops don't know the rules of the road beyond very common things, either. Get an attorney. Just because it isn't something explicitly written doesn't mean it isn't valid. They are allowing passing to occur based on the road markings... as long as you are passing because you are behind someone going slowly, you can pass... so, you need to do so safely, speeding a little bit to do that seems reasonable to the average person, I would imagine. See if an attorney thinks you have a case.

Radar detectors don't often work and cops are onto Waze and remove themselves, lately.

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Another vote for hiring a lawyer.

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Buy a radar detector

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Dus10 said:   
Radar detectors don't often work and cops are onto Waze and remove themselves, lately.

You don't need something to work 100% of time for it to be useful. The only times my radar detector didn't work was when I didn't plug it in or it was lidar

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I find the subtle speed warning on my GPS useful. It's also not 100% reliable, but I've been impressed with its accuracy. This might be an option you already have to help avoid future tickets.

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mwarrior said:   1 should be gone. Did you get anything in writing when you pled to the charge?
2 is dependent on state law. I don't see anything about Ohio allowing you to exceed the speed limit to pass a vehicle. As far as I know most states state that posted limit is posted limit, regardless of if you're passing or not.
3 is the same. Speed traps are revenue cash cows, and as long as you were in the 35 zone when clocked (if it's a laser the cop usually puts the distance on the notes), then speeding is speeding.

As alamo said, attorney is recommended for 2 and 3, and maybe even one if it was in fact reduced to a non-moving violation and the court didn't fix it.

  
I did not get anything in writing about the plea.
rufflesinc said:   Invest in a top of line radar detector. Deduct from taxes as business expense.

Use waze whenever driving.

  
I'm not allowed to use that in my work vehicle. Although, I could get a GPS that tells me the limit, which would help.

 

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I know someone who got a lead-foot, he ALWAYS use a lawyer. Good guy, but there's something about Indian and their BWMs that makes them ass**** on the road.

To sum up:

- Use a lawyer
- Get a GPS with speed warning.

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With all these moving violations you've been caught making, maybe it's time you switched jobs.

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mikejensen said:   With all these moving violations you've been caught making, maybe it's time you switched jobs.
  OP has three moving violations in about 1.5 years; that is 45k miles of driving. Moreover, taken at face value, OP's #2 seems dubious to me; speeding while passing on a two-lane highway?
While any moving violation is to be avoided, it is not excessive enough to consider a different line of work.

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mikejensen said:   With all these moving violations you've been caught making, maybe it's time you switched jobs.
  I can't stay I didn't expect a response along these lines.

I get it. I too get irritated at the type of person I've become here "help, I did a bunch of dumb stuff, now I want to escape the consequences". Maybe I did mess up a few times. Although, I think there is more than enough here to suggest that some of it needs challenged. #3 may be the toughest. Yea there is a few here but 3 years of MVR is not equal for all. 10,000 miles and 90,000 miles are not equal comparisons. 

Also I forgot to ask everyone. What is the average price range I should expect to pay a lawyer?

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InFlamed said:   
Also I forgot to ask everyone. What is the average price range I should expect to pay a lawyer?

  I'm in a high cost of living area.  I was told ~$400 per "incident". 

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Can you sign up for group legal plan through work or some other affiliation?

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InFlamed said:   Personally, I thought it was legal to exceed the speed to pass on a single-lane road.Really ??!!

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InFlamed said:   It went from 45 to 35, and there was a cop waiting there to nail everyone who didn't decelerate to 35 fast enough. He got me going 48.Or the cop was waiting to nail everyone who didn't decelerate at all ?

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Ticket 1 - Why are all the details omitted? I'm assuming you did something bad. Go back and talk to the prosecutor
Ticket 2 - If you have to go 20 MPH over the speed limit to "safely" pass on a one lane highway, then it is not safe to pass
Ticket 3 - That's 37% over the speed limit... sounds like you need to pay more attention

Some states will write off tickets as a non moving violation if you pay a higher fine. I would call the court first and ask them if this is a possibility. If that doesn't work then it's time to lawyer up... they may be able to plea bargain. Hopefully you can work out a deal... Fighting a ticket in court could end up costing a lot... let's say $600-$2000.

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OT. As someone already said, OH cops sucks. I had a classmate got two tickets by highway patrol within two hours. The cash starpped small towns are hungry as hell for whatever cash they can legally snatch.
Make sure to get a top if the line radar detector which I am surprised that you have not invested in. I am not sure how Waze stack up in a rural area like you said.
Edit- I see your post that says you cant use a radar detector. How hard they enforce that rule? Specially when you are driving out of nowhere.

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ZenNUTS said:   I know someone who got a lead-foot, he ALWAYS use a lawyer. Good guy, but there's something about Indian and their BWMs that makes them ass**** on the road.

To sum up:

- Use a lawyer
- Get a GPS with speed warning.

Anyone with an Audi or BMW drives like ah0le....no point of picking on Indians.

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brettdoyle said:   Fighting a ticket in court could end up costing a lot... let's say $600-$2000.
  If you use a lawyer  yes. But when I requested three sets of hearings, I didn't have to pay any extra. You force the officer and prosecutor to show up and they have nothing to hang over you at that point.

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brettdoyle said:   Ticket 1 - Why are all the details omitted? I'm assuming you did something bad. Go back and talk to the prosecutor
Ticket 2 - If you have to go 20 MPH over the speed limit to "safely" pass on a one lane highway, then it is not safe to pass
Ticket 3 - That's 37% over the speed limit... sounds like you need to pay more attention

 

  Just another way of the govt taxing us hard working citizens

rated:
1) I would fight this one for sure. I wonder how many other people this prosecutor has screwed over with his promises.

2) There are some states that allow you to increase your speed for passing in this instance. I don't know about Ohio though.

3) In many states, a decrease of the speed limit more than 5 mph requires a sign posted stating as much.

In any event, for someone who "really doesn't speed" and it's "=12.8pxINCREDIBLY crucial to my employment that I not receive many moving violations", you certainly get pulled over a lot.
Whatever you are doing, you should stop doing it immediately.

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DonnieDuck said:   In any event, for someone who "really doesn't speed" and it's "=12.8pxINCREDIBLY crucial to my employment that I not receive many moving violations", you certainly get pulled over a lot.
Whatever you are doing, you should stop doing it immediately.

  op drives 30k+ miles/yr.  of 3 tickets he mentioned, only 1 seemed legit (1st one).  he was 3 miles over in one situation, until he hit a speed trap.  in another instance, he was speeding while passing.

compared to me, op is a senior citizen.  in a city, I'm 15-25+ over during normal driving.  when I'm on a freeway (and traffic is light), my speedometer spends much time at 100+.

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fwuser12 said:   
OP's #2 seems dubious to me; speeding while passing on a two-lane highway?

    Speeding to pass is one thing.  Speeding @20 MPH over to pass because there is an oncoming vehicle and you don't want to wait for the next opportunity is another.  Had OP just been doing 5-10 over, the officer may not have nailed them, or a court might be more amenable to a deal.  20 over might cause issues.

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I sympathize but don't see anything in this thread where the forum will be able to help you. Don't drive so fast. The speed limit signs are not recommendations to consider, they are limits. Consider using cruise control on the highway at no more than five miles per hour over the limit. Buy a good radar and laser detector. Any roads with limits under 55 then only drive the posted limit and no more

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Glacierwolf said:   
fwuser12 said:   
OP's #2 seems dubious to me; speeding while passing on a two-lane highway?

    Speeding to pass is one thing.  Speeding @20 MPH over to pass because there is an oncoming vehicle and you don't want to wait for the next opportunity is another.  Had OP just been doing 5-10 over, the officer may not have nailed them, or a court might be more amenable to a deal.  20 over might cause issues.

  You left out the "taken at face value" part of my post.
Regarding the oncoming vehicle, OP said: "The car wasn't too close where there wasn't safe clearance".

Once it is safe to pass and you decide to, the prudent thing is to spend the least amount of time on the oncoming lane. 15-20 mph over to pass a vehicle under that circumstance is not excessive. 5-10 mph over will take for ever to pass a vehicle.

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I think some folks are getting a little too precious here about driving. People speed. It is normal. Get over it. Studies have been done that show that speeding does not contribute to safety issues outside of pedestrian areas; the safety issues are always something else... impairment from substance or distraction.

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fwuser12 said:   Once it is safe to pass and you decide to, the prudent thing is to spend the least amount of time on the oncoming lane. 15-20 mph over to pass a vehicle under that circumstance is not excessive.Getting a ticket for driving 15-20 mph over the maximum speed limit does not seem dubious.

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Dus10 said:   I think some folks are getting a little too precious here about driving. People speed. It is normal. Get over it. Studies have been done that show that speeding does not contribute to safety issues outside of pedestrian areas; the safety issues are always something else... impairment from substance or distraction.
 
You think that having a head on collision at 100 MPH is no different than one at 55 MPH?   

Its not the accident and bad driving that kills people its the speed that kills people.

Speed itself isn't going to hurt you.    Its speed + everything else.    But you can pretty much say that about anything else.      We could all drive around drunk or blind if the cars were limited to 3 MPH and had great bumpers.      So drunk driving isn't bad because we should all just drive bumper cars.


 

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xoneinax said:   
fwuser12 said:   Once it is safe to pass and you decide to, the prudent thing is to spend the least amount of time on the oncoming lane. 15-20 mph over to pass a vehicle under that circumstance is not excessive.
Getting a ticket for driving 15-20 mph over the maximum speed limit does not seem dubious.

  
Yeah.   20MPH over sounds excessive.    OP had to speed up because of oncoming traffic (including the cop that ticketed him).       Honestly I think he is probably lucky the cop didn't hit him with something worse like negligent or reckless driving.    The cop was in the oncoming traffic that OP could have hit due to the badly executed pass.


 

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If you see oncoming traffic do not try to pass!

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xoneinax said:   
fwuser12 said:   Once it is safe to pass and you decide to, the prudent thing is to spend the least amount of time on the oncoming lane. 15-20 mph over to pass a vehicle under that circumstance is not excessive.
Getting a ticket for driving 15-20 mph over the maximum speed limit does not seem dubious.

  I re-read the OP. He passed a slow moving transit on a 55 mph limit stretch. Nominally 15-20 over the speed of vehicle you are passing (on a two lane highway) is not unusual. Indeed, you dont want to be lingering in the oncoming lane by going just 5-10 over the other vehicle.

But OP said "about 20 mph over the limit to pass him"; if OP went 75 and the other vehicle was going say 45; that could be excessive (OP didnt mention the speed of the transit vehicle). Initially I took the 20 mph over as meaning over the (slow) transit vehicle (not over the limit).

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WesleyB said:   If you see oncoming traffic do not try to pass!
  There are stretches of highway where you can see oncoming vehicles 2-3 miles ahead. Just because you can see oncoming traffic doesnt necessarily mean you cannot safely pass. Just like you cannot necessarily safely pass if you cannot see oncoming traffic.

rated:
Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you get caught. I was recently on a rural state highway (called farm-to-market roads in Texas) which had a 75mph limit. This was down near the Gulf where it is flat. This road had one lane in each direction with a small shoulder. A truck hauling two trailers of something flammable was only doing about 70mph. So I passed when I saw an opening. I got up to about 90mph as we topped a bridge and then I saw the state trooper on shoulder on the other side of the bridge. I was able to pull over in front of the truck and brake down to about 80mph. The trooper didn't seem to care. I still had that stomach up in my chest feeling.

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fwuser12 said:   
Glacierwolf said:   
fwuser12 said:   
OP's #2 seems dubious to me; speeding while passing on a two-lane highway?

    Speeding to pass is one thing.  Speeding @20 MPH over to pass because there is an oncoming vehicle and you don't want to wait for the next opportunity is another.  Had OP just been doing 5-10 over, the officer may not have nailed them, or a court might be more amenable to a deal.  20 over might cause issues.

  You left out the "taken at face value" part of my post.
Regarding the oncoming vehicle, OP said: "The car wasn't too close where there wasn't safe clearance".

Once it is safe to pass and you decide to, the prudent thing is to spend the least amount of time on the oncoming lane. 15-20 mph over to pass a vehicle under that circumstance is not excessive. 5-10 mph over will take for ever to pass a vehicle.


10 mph is 14.67 feet per second.
A sensible 2007 Crown Victoria is 202", or 16.83 feet in length.
Allowing one car length of buffer behind and in front of the car being passed, it would take an eternal 3.442 seconds to cover the passing distance.


  

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jerosen said:   
xoneinax said:   
fwuser12 said:   Once it is safe to pass and you decide to, the prudent thing is to spend the least amount of time on the oncoming lane. 15-20 mph over to pass a vehicle under that circumstance is not excessive.
Getting a ticket for driving 15-20 mph over the maximum speed limit does not seem dubious.

  
Yeah.   20MPH over sounds excessive.    OP had to speed up because of oncoming traffic (including the cop that ticketed him).       Honestly I think he is probably lucky the cop didn't hit him with something worse like negligent or reckless driving.    The cop was in the oncoming traffic that OP could have hit due to the badly executed pass.


 

  20mph sounds pretty darned normal for trying to pass someone and get out of the way... I would say if you didn't go at least 20 mph over, you are being less safe by hanging out in the other lane too long.

rated:
jerosen said:   
Dus10 said:   I think some folks are getting a little too precious here about driving. People speed. It is normal. Get over it. Studies have been done that show that speeding does not contribute to safety issues outside of pedestrian areas; the safety issues are always something else... impairment from substance or distraction.
 
You think that having a head on collision at 100 MPH is no different than one at 55 MPH?   

Its not the accident and bad driving that kills people its the speed that kills people.

Speed itself isn't going to hurt you.    Its speed + everything else.    But you can pretty much say that about anything else.      We could all drive around drunk or blind if the cars were limited to 3 MPH and had great bumpers.      So drunk driving isn't bad because we should all just drive bumper cars.


 

  You are missing the point... speeding is highly unlikely to have caused the accident.  Your discussion about bumper calls is silly, because if we drove around like that... it wouldn't be useful.

Skipping 19 Messages...
rated:
dcwilbur said:   

I live on a road much like the OP described, a rural two-lane road where speed limits range from 25 to 55 over a ten mile stretch with a mixture of passing and no-passing zones.  I could drive on this straight, level road at speeds of 70 or 80 mph.  However, under NO circumstances would that constitute safe operation of a motor vehicle, passing or not.  Along this stretch of road, you will encounter numerous driveways, a school, a park, a horse path that crosses the road, a bicycle path, abundant wildlife (mostly deer) and any number of other issues.  


I think too many people drive based on how comfortable they are operating their own vehicle without any regard for other factors that dictate the speed limit in that area.  For example, you could easily go 60 mph as you pass my house (in a 35 mph zone).  Even if I see you approaching from a half mile away, I can easily pull on to the roadway and accelerate to the speed limit safely.  However, if you are traveling nearly twice the speed limit, you will be on top of me in no time and create an unsafe condition.  Now throw an oncoming vehicle executing a passing maneuver at that same excessive speed, or a deer running across the road, and you have a real mess on your hands.  I can tell you from experience that this scenario is all too common.  I have been a witness to several fatal and near fatal accidents that have played out just like I describe.

Slow down.  Driving on rural roads is a completely different ballgame from driving on interstate highways.

  what's funny is somebody who likes your message is already cautious.  the whole "if you speed, you'll die" propaganda resonates with a cautious driver.

but that does nothing to change a spirited driver's behavior.  he's willing to take risks you're telling him not to take.  yea, maybe 1 out of 10,000 speeders takes an early dirt nap.  but he assumes that 1 person will be somebody else.  and he assumes that 1 person will be doing something stupid (like driving while fatigued, distracted or intoxicated).  

what you should say is this.  don't speed.  but, if you do, stay alert, attentive and sober.  he'll buy that.

you might also encourage him to take driving courses to improve his accident-avoidance skills.  that's reasonable.

lastly, you should  encourage him to spend  time driving/speeding through desolate areas.  that experience is likely to improve his reaction time to sudden changes in rural road conditions.  I'd rather pull out in front of a speeder who's dealt with that situation on 100+ occasions than a speeder who's experiencing it for his first time.



 

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