IBM plans to hire 25,000 in "new collar" jobs that won't require an advanced degree

Archived From: Finance
  • Text Only
Voting History
rated:
MSN reports that IBM plans to hire 25,000 workers for "new collar" jobs that won't require an advance degree in technology but instead will require skills than can be learned in a modified high school education.

Corrected Link to MSN article:  http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/ibm-plans-to-hire-25000-workers/vi-AAlyBVV 

Also discussed here at USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2016/12/13/we-need-fill-new-collar-jobs-employers-demand-ibms-rometty/95382248/ 

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
Sadly yes.    

example : http://www.businessinsider.com/ibm-added-and-lost-70000-people-2... 

""Even with adding 70,000 pe... (more)

jerosen (Dec. 28, 2016 @ 2:30p) |

Absolutely. And absolutely this is not unique to IBM. I SMH at those that throw their arms in the air and are indifferen... (more)

SummerSoFar (Dec. 28, 2016 @ 2:49p) |

I don't think anyone here is really totally "ok with it" as you put it

Its more a sad admission of the reality.

I don't kn... (more)

jerosen (Dec. 28, 2016 @ 3:17p) |

Staff Summary
  • Also categorized in:
Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

Hopefully it is true. This will help people like me looking for jobs.

pay?

I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.

SummerSoFar said:   I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.

I'd assume that any smart 20-somethings without a college degree would take almost any job other than flipping burgers.

Back in the 70's and 80's working at IBM was like winning the lottery.

SummerSoFar said:   I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.
  
I've never worked at IBM, but I have flipped burgers for a living. 

If given the chance, I think I'll take IBM.

Good. On a side note. governments need to do more to promote vocational programs/schools rather than trying to push everyone towards college. Not everyone may want to go to college, their degree won't be useful coming from a community college, or the degree has no market value.

There are plenty of good paying jobs such as plumbers, mechanics, electricians, etc. that are very attainable if high school kids are guided in the right direction (and governments sponsor training/vocational programs at the same level they do for college) towards these types of jobs as viable career options, rather than the unknowns/less success associated with some colleges/degrees.

IBM was one of the companies who wanted to interview me recently, for a deployment job (FTE) based in NY state. Job sounded fine, although more IT than my background. I would have happily taken an IBM job, but I had a contract offer in NC. (the idea of a permanent relo to NY including selling my Condo was a factor too)

There is a lot of work for Telecom engineers in Dallas, which is why I keep my base there. NY, not so much.

It was an odd week -- had recruiters for Apple, IBM, and a US job being shopped by a Canadian contracting agency all on the go at the same time as the contract I ended up on. I am mostly Field and Support Technician who doesn't get a lot of blue chips calling. I generally work for vendors or cellular carriers.

slappycakes said:   
SummerSoFar said:   I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.
  
I've never worked at IBM, but I have flipped burgers for a living. 

If given the chance, I think I'll take IBM.

  
Follow up with me after you have taken that job. You may change your tune after-all.

Edit: Seems nobody wants to acknowledge that IBM alone has announced such as plan. Come back and red me when much more desirable tech companies follow suit. Until then, I defend my argument.

SummerSoFar said:   
slappycakes said:   
SummerSoFar said:   I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.
  
I've never worked at IBM, but I have flipped burgers for a living. 

If given the chance, I think I'll take IBM.

  
Follow up with me after you have taken that job. You may change your tune after-all.

Edit: Seems nobody wants to acknowledge that IBM alone has announced such as plan. Come back and red me when much more desirable tech companies follow suit. Until then, I defend my argument.

  

Using the 1000's of reviews on Glassdoor as a referene, it does seem IBM employees are less happy than other major firms I've checked with the exception of Oracle

IBM has 3.4 stars out of 5.
Amazon has a reputation of being tough  is at 3.5
Boeing 3.6
Nike
4.0
Exxon 3.8
3M 3.7
Facebook 4.5
Oracle 3.4

etc

But with any big company you can have huge variation in employee satisfaction in different divisions, function, regions or management chain.

 

SummerSoFar said:   Edit: Seems nobody wants to acknowledge that IBM alone has announced such as plan. Come back and red me when much more desirable tech companies follow suit. Until then, I defend my argument.
  

What, huh?

Yes the plan is from IBM as indicated in the thread title.    Was someone denied this?

You said you don't want to work at IBM.    OK.    Don't.


 

What's the point of this "announcement"? Weird that it got all kind of press with hardly any detail on what all these new-hires are supposed to do or how much they are going to be paid.

bighitter said:   MSN reports that IBM plans to hire 25,000 workers for "new collar" jobs that won't require an advance degree in technology but instead will require skills than can be learned in a modified high school education.

Corrected Link to MSN article:  http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/ibm-plans-to-hire-25000-workers/vi-AAlyBVV 

Also discussed here at USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/columnist/2016/12/13/we-need-fill-new-collar-jobs-employers-demand-ibms-rometty/95382248/

  thats the problem with IBM....it hires in thousands and many a times it has fired in thousands.....I'm sure they will simply cut serious number of jobs in some verticals where they don't see much future and in-lieu grow the numbers from this new vertical

SummerSoFar said:   I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.

If I was offered a choice between two jobs: Flipping burgers at Burger King or some sort of technician job at IBM, I would pick the technician job, even though my name is "Burgerwars." Even if IBM closed down, the training and work experience on your resume would look 1000000% better than burger flipping skills.

I've never flipped burgers but have slinged tacos at Taco Bell. The pay was poverty wages, but they did let me eat the food for free (if you think that is a benefit). I'm now in the IT field. While it's not a perfect world, it's a good field. As for the pay, it will take a whole lot of burger flippers to equal it.

IBM has had declining sales for 17 consecutive quarters. I am surprised the Board hasn't kicked the CEO to the curb yet, the company is a ghost of what it once was. I worked for them from 1984 to 2009, and left to pursue a medical career where I am much happier. I still have lots of contacts in the company, and they all tell me morale is in the dumps; nobody knows if s/he will be included in the next layoff. Old-timers at IBM will remember the yearly "Opinion Survey", given to employees. Well, that survey was discontinued in the late 1990s because the answers about the company were so bad they couldn't be published. In the 1970s and 1980s, IBM always figured in Forbes' Top-10 "most admired companies". I don't it has made that list in the last 10-15 years.

Facebook group of current and former IBMers - good reading if you want to take the pulse of the company.
https://www.facebook.com/alliancemember/

Basically this looks like a cost cutting measure presented as an altruistic education initiative.

"won't require an advance degree in technology" = cheaper

So, what's wrong with all the people that graduate now with a 2 year degree from community colleges or IT schools? Perhaps, IBM doesn't know that they already exist.

IBM is a train wreck - their scheme during the Palmisano years was to cut costs to the bare bone though layoffs and selling legacy businesses while keeping sales and innovation stagnant.

Watson is a great example of this. They have this great innovative product that gets awesome press after beating Ken Jennings at Jeopardy. What does IBM do with it to monetize it? Next to nothing. Watson had a huge head start over rival AI programs at Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, etc. AI is currently developing as the next hot thing in tech after cloud computing. IBM should be #1 in AI right now. And yet, somehow, their advantage isn't paying off. I'll tell you why - the penny pinchers in finance refused to invest in this business and put that team at a significant disadvantage. One of their top execs in Watson left the company NINE MONTHS after being hired because this situation was so untenable.

IBM is now in serious trouble - you're seeing very large clients of theirs like the CIA flee to cloud solutions offered by Amazon. Their hardware business is on life support. They've sold almost all of their legacy businesses and have nobody left to lay off. Their culture, once something IBM was very proud of, is poisonous. They may very well plan to hire 25,000 workers, but the company will be lucky to be around in 10 years.

sullim4 couldn't have put it any better......

I stand corrected. Maybe Trumpkins will want to work for IBM.

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/19/ibm-employees-launch-petitio...

sullim4 said:   IBM is a train wreck - their scheme during the Palmisano years was to cut costs to the bare bone though layoffs and selling legacy businesses while keeping sales and innovation stagnant.

Watson is a great example of this. They have this great innovative product that gets awesome press after beating Ken Jennings at Jeopardy. What does IBM do with it to monetize it? Next to nothing. Watson had a huge head start over rival AI programs at Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, etc. AI is currently developing as the next hot thing in tech after cloud computing. IBM should be #1 in AI right now. And yet, somehow, their advantage isn't paying off. I'll tell you why - the penny pinchers in finance refused to invest in this business and put that team at a significant disadvantage. One of their top execs in Watson left the company NINE MONTHS after being hired because this situation was so untenable.

IBM is now in serious trouble - you're seeing very large clients of theirs like the CIA flee to cloud solutions offered by Amazon. Their hardware business is on life support. They've sold almost all of their legacy businesses and have nobody left to lay off. Their culture, once something IBM was very proud of, is poisonous. They may very well plan to hire 25,000 workers, but the company will be lucky to be around in 10 years.


Sounds a lot like xerox in the late 60s early 70s.

SummerSoFar said:   I stand corrected. Maybe Trumpkins will want to work for IBM.

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/19/ibm-employees-launch-petition-protesting-cooperation-with-donald-trump/

  
I doubt any of them read that particular far left publication.   

Chargum85 said:   I'd assume that any smart 20-somethings without a college degree would take almost any job other than flipping burgers.

Back in the 70's and 80's working at IBM was like winning the lottery.

  Having worked there right out of college as my first "real job" I can say that I'm glad I did - I learned a lot in a place where screwing up/making a mistake was tolerated (because even if you screwed up but were trying, you were still doing better than the people that were just on what we called "working retirement"), and also learned a lot about how companies should not be ran/managers should not manage/etc.  

To this day whenever I go on a job interview and the interviewer also did a "stint" at IBM, as we get to that line on the resume we typically lock eyes as they try to search out whether you put it on your resume to show how great it was that you worked at IBM, or how great it was that you don't work there anymore, and based on it being the latter with me usually form an instant bond of shared painful experience that helps throughout the rest of the discussion.

This went a lot more negative that I intended it - while I'm glad I don't work there anymore, I truly do feel I received at least as much value from working there as my first job as would have been possible, and it's also quite easy for talented and smart individuals to notice each other within the larger team and form lasting networks of people that ended up better places.  

SpeedingLunatic said:   
sullim4 said:   IBM is a train wreck - their scheme during the Palmisano years was to cut costs to the bare bone though layoffs and selling legacy businesses while keeping sales and innovation stagnant.

Watson is a great example of this. They have this great innovative product that gets awesome press after beating Ken Jennings at Jeopardy. What does IBM do with it to monetize it? Next to nothing. Watson had a huge head start over rival AI programs at Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, etc. AI is currently developing as the next hot thing in tech after cloud computing. IBM should be #1 in AI right now. And yet, somehow, their advantage isn't paying off. I'll tell you why - the penny pinchers in finance refused to invest in this business and put that team at a significant disadvantage. One of their top execs in Watson left the company NINE MONTHS after being hired because this situation was so untenable.

IBM is now in serious trouble - you're seeing very large clients of theirs like the CIA flee to cloud solutions offered by Amazon.  Their hardware business is on life support. They've sold almost all of their legacy businesses and have nobody left to lay off. Their culture, once something IBM was very proud of, is poisonous. They may very well plan to hire 25,000 workers, but the company will be lucky to be around in 10 years.


Sounds a lot like xerox in the late 60s early 70s.

  

Huh?  Xerox was in its heyday during that time-frame, making billions in profits and was very innovative.  Maybe the turn of the century, but not the 60s-70s.

Fun read:  https://www.amazon.com/My-Years-Xerox-Billions-Nobody/dp/0532171... a book that one of my profs suggested we read when in grad school.

 

SummerSoFar said:   I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.
  
OK, I've never flipped burgers.  But I have pushed a broom and waited customers in a retail setting six days a week.  I've also had two IBM job offers, separated by a number of years and at different facilities, each time to work for them in a professional capacity.  I would rather work for IBM than push a broom, etc..

That said, I politely declined both of IBM's offers, but only because I had better offers each time.     

SummerSoFar said:   
slappycakes said:   
SummerSoFar said:   I would rather flip burgers. NOBODY wants to work for IBM. Nobody.
  
I've never worked at IBM, but I have flipped burgers for a living. 

If given the chance, I think I'll take IBM.

  
Follow up with me after you have taken that job. You may change your tune after-all.

Edit: Seems nobody wants to acknowledge that IBM alone has announced such as plan. Come back and red me when much more desirable tech companies follow suit. Until then, I defend my argument.

  What argument?

investnoob said:     What argument?

I'm still looking for someone to confess that they want to work for IBM. 

The consensus is clear in this thread and everywhere else; IBM is a POS organization. This one is personal, as I have plenty of co-worker friends who have been used and abused by evil-corp. So I guess let them have all the trump supporters they want. Keep piling on the red all you want, doesn't phase me anymore.

SummerSoFar said:   
investnoob said:     What argument?

I'm still looking for someone to confess that they want to work for IBM. 

The consensus is clear in this thread and everywhere else; IBM is a POS organization. This one is personal, as I have plenty of co-worker friends who have been used and abused by evil-corp. So I guess let them have all the trump supporters they want. Keep piling on the red all you want, doesn't phase me anymore.

  
There are VERY few jobs that count as "want to work for" anywhere.  Given a decent salary offer that doesn't require me to relocate?  I would take IBM in a NY minute.  The "old guard" companies still have good benefits, versus contracting.

Once relocation and location come into play, yeah that is a factor to weigh against other offers.  Last time I was in the intro level of discussion for a job in NY (not big on NY) when an offer came in for a long contract.  I took the long contract versus waiting to see how far IBM was interested.  I fit the contract role better than I did IBM's "implementation" role.

Mickie3 said:   
SpeedingLunatic said:   
sullim4 said:   IBM is a train wreck - their scheme during the Palmisano years was to cut costs to the bare bone though layoffs and selling legacy businesses while keeping sales and innovation stagnant.

Watson is a great example of this. They have this great innovative product that gets awesome press after beating Ken Jennings at Jeopardy. What does IBM do with it to monetize it? Next to nothing. Watson had a huge head start over rival AI programs at Google, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, etc. AI is currently developing as the next hot thing in tech after cloud computing. IBM should be #1 in AI right now. And yet, somehow, their advantage isn't paying off. I'll tell you why - the penny pinchers in finance refused to invest in this business and put that team at a significant disadvantage. One of their top execs in Watson left the company NINE MONTHS after being hired because this situation was so untenable.

IBM is now in serious trouble - you're seeing very large clients of theirs like the CIA flee to cloud solutions offered by Amazon.  Their hardware business is on life support. They've sold almost all of their legacy businesses and have nobody left to lay off. Their culture, once something IBM was very proud of, is poisonous. They may very well plan to hire 25,000 workers, but the company will be lucky to be around in 10 years.


Sounds a lot like xerox in the late 60s early 70s.

  

Huh?  Xerox was in its heyday during that time-frame, making billions in profits and was very innovative.  Maybe the turn of the century, but not the 60s-70s.

Fun read:  https://www.amazon.com/My-Years-Xerox-Billions-Nobody/dp/0532171292  a book that one of my profs suggested we read when in grad school.

 

  

Sorry, had my decades wrong.  70s-80s.   https://www.amazon.com/Dealers-Lightning-Xerox-PARC-Computer/dp/...

I've worked at IBM for over 21 years and just got notice that I will be laid off in April. It seems they want to fire people that know what they are doing that have college degrees and replace us with new employees with only high school diploma. Also be aware that it's not 25k NEW jobs, but 25k over 4 years. Well over half are just for people that leave and need to be replaced so the total new jobs created isn't too high.

The benefits at IBM have really gone down. My Dad is retired IBM so I've been around IBM my entire life. For example, they only match your 401k on Dec 15 so if you leave before that you lose the match for the entire year. Also, used to get up to 6 months pay if getting laid off and worked 20+ years. Now you only get 4 weeks pay.

And don't forget that the jobs in NY are mostly in Westchester County, not in NYC. IBM is now doing agile so everyone must be colocated (do have other sites besides NY).

And it's a no brainer to pick IBM over flipping burgers.

robstrash said:   ...
And it's a no brainer to pick IBM over flipping burgers.

  
You were just s#it canned, your loyalty means nothing, and yet you still defend them. Unbelievable.

No wonder this country is in the shape it is and we are about to have a intellectual retard as president.

SummerSoFar said:   
robstrash said:   ...
And it's a no brainer to pick IBM over flipping burgers.

  
You were just s#it canned, your loyalty means nothing, and yet you still defend them. Unbelievable.

No wonder this country is in the shape it is and we are about to have a intellectual retard as president.

  

He didn't really defend IBM.  He just said he'd prefer it to flipping burgers.    You've set up this stupid straw argument that  you either make minimum wage or you love IBM.

I'd rather get kicked in the groin than stabbed in the eye, but that don't mean I like a kick in the groin.


edit:
p.s. no I'm not defending IBM either.  I don't really know anything about them personally.
 

SummerSoFar said:   You were just s#it canned, your loyalty means nothing, ...
  

Loyalty?

What decade and country do you live in?

 

jerosen said:   
SummerSoFar said:   You were just s#it canned, your loyalty means nothing, ...
  

Loyalty?

What decade and country do you live in?

 

 
The wrong one clearly.

Just... stop.

You are making Trumpies rational by comparison and that's not a good thing.

robstrash said:   I've worked at IBM for over 21 years and just got notice that I will be laid off in April. It seems they want to fire people that know what they are doing that have college degrees and replace us with new employees with only high school diploma. Also be aware that it's not 25k NEW jobs, but 25k over 4 years. Well over half are just for people that leave and need to be replaced so the total new jobs created isn't too high.

The benefits at IBM have really gone down. My Dad is retired IBM so I've been around IBM my entire life. For example, they only match your 401k on Dec 15 so if you leave before that you lose the match for the entire year. Also, used to get up to 6 months pay if getting laid off and worked 20+ years. Now you only get 4 weeks pay.

And don't forget that the jobs in NY are mostly in Westchester County, not in NYC. IBM is now doing agile so everyone must be colocated (do have other sites besides NY).

And it's a no brainer to pick IBM over flipping burgers.

 
Every company's benefits suck compared to 20 years ago.  My dad got a far better retirement/pension as a security guard than I would have as an advanced technician if my first permanent job had been, well, permanent.  Not only do they suck, but they do their best to shaft people out of claiming what is left.

Severance pay is still a week a year at most companies, even now.  Sorta surprised they are only doing one month -- that isn't enough to prevent people they DON'T want leaving to leave if they get a halfway decent offer.  But yeah, Ericsson did the same sort of layoff- claimed they were moving into services and out of products so let go all of the high level engineers in the US and hired a few interns and lower engineers here and a whole LOT of them in India doing the first line support.  (which is a fairly advanced role in a live telecom network)  

A lot of engineers in the 45-55 year range got booted.  The older ones were still on the 70s style retirement/pension/medical packages, if they could "buy them out" they out they were bought at a fraction of what it would cost them if you actually retired.  Since it was a European company those were VERY good benefit plans.  It didn't take US managers more than a decade to gut those down to worse than most old guard US companies and now all you get is a 401K with a decent match.  (they don't care about match, its calculated into their salary and if you DON'T take it then its free money to the company)  

After the third "permanent" job ended up being not-so I gave up on the idea of it.  Only reason I am considering going back into perm is that the medical insurance costs are getting ridiculous as a contractor.  The military introduced me to the layoff when a job restructure made my job 300% overstrength, and E5s were even worse -- ergo no re-enlistment and I didn't have enough time to retain AND get a promotion before the clock ran out.  They have made it MUCH less strict, then it was 8 years to make E5 and now I could go 11 at that point.  

---
First thing I thought when I read that headline was that IBM decided they could get lower technical workers much cheaper -- with benefits you could get 2 for what a degreed certified engineer makes.  I saw the same thing in reverse at Tokyo Electron -- they realized what they were paying for ex-military and tech school degrees as travelling engineers they could just hire starter engineers right out of UT which was down the road.  (Salary was Meh, but it was 100% paid travel on projects - with per diem it wasn't bad)  Of course there is a huge difference in the outlook of the two types -- the college guys are looking for a promotion and better opportunities so you have to KEEP hiring new ones.  Technicians are quite happy installing as long as you promote in-grade regularly.  (they were bad about that part)

Then 9/11 happened during the turmoil and two related things happened together -- half the group got axed and the other half (all the college guys, obviously) decided they were glad to have ANY job and settled down.  Irony of ironies was they ended up being even busier because the European team was gutted and the US team started supporting both the US and EU.  Since they had a habit of hard negative reviewing anyone they released (all of a sudden half the team all get significantly lower reviews and a pink slip..  hmm, not suspicious...) none of us were willing to go back to work for them.  I did get an offer via a contracting agency, but it was to an office (midstate NY again, not far from Westchester, actually) where I did not want to work for their management.

ZenNUTS said:   Just... stop.

You are making Trumpies rational by comparison and that's not a good thing.


Is the entire American labor pool under some form of employment-related Stockholm syndrome? I think I need to go publish a paper...

SummerSoFar said:   
ZenNUTS said:   Just... stop.

You are making Trumpies rational by comparison and that's not a good thing.


Is the entire American labor pool under some form of employment-related Stockholm syndrome? I think I need to go publish a paper...

  
It is us and them.

Unfortunately, some of them are us, and some of us are them.

---

The disconnect of the stock market where profit or perish means cutting every expense -- even when the expense is to the individual cost of the employee whose retirements drive a lot of the same stock market.  So on one hand you are like "no don't lay me off" while cheering that the stuff in your portfolio made a killing even though THEY had a layoff last month.

SummerSoFar said:   Is the entire American labor pool under some form of employment-related Stockholm syndrome? I think I need to go publish a paper...

I think your grudge against IBM boils down to 2 points
1) companies retract their previous promises (pension, etc)
2) companies replace existing, arguably better labor with cheaper ones.

Neither of these practices is unique to IBM, and, as seen by this election, is far more prevalent in the manufacturing sector. While many consider these companies "evil", they're just following the "good" business practice of minimizing cost. I don't agree some of these practices, but I understand why they do it.
---
As a software developer, the only company I WANT to work for is Google (and that's more for bragging rights, since I don't actually know the company's culture). Having said that, I'd still pick IBM over flipping burgers. McD's could lay me off any day of the week as much as IBM could. The only "upside" of working for McD's over IBM is the latter might give me a false sense of security.
---
Assuming IBM doesn't lay people off to open up the 25,000 positions (which I highly doubt), I'd be happy to see more would-be burger flippers making a living wage.

Skipping 4 Messages...
SummerSoFar said:   
beyond827 said:   
SummerSoFar said:   Is the entire American labor pool under some form of employment-related Stockholm syndrome? I think I need to go publish a paper...

I think your grudge against IBM boils down to 2 points
1) companies retract their previous promises (pension, etc)
2) companies replace existing, arguably better labor with cheaper ones.

 

  
Absolutely. And absolutely this is not unique to IBM. I SMH at those that throw their arms in the air and are indifferent enough to be okay with it. And they wonder why their jobs are eternally insecure, just like their IRAs and 401ks. I am not arguing that workers rights are the answer, but I'm also not sure what is (although I do know that a cabinet of ex-CEOs and bankers is NOT it).

RedWolfe nailed it on the head, us and them. And the us'es just put them'es in power. 

  

I don't think anyone here is really totally "ok with it" as you put it

Its more a sad admission of the reality.

I don't know what the fix is for it either. 

But I do know that resigning yourself to making $7.25 at McD isn't a real solution.

 



Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

While FatWallet makes every effort to post correct information, offers are subject to change without notice.
Some exclusions may apply based upon merchant policies.
© 1999-2017