Can I win this chargeback dispute, previously dismissed? or legal actions?

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Bought a Tv from best_buy. Returned it unopened. A new employee, i'm assuming, said he had to open it to verify contents..blah blah. Thought nothing of it.
Takes everything out of box, sets it up, turns it on, puts it back in the box. Complete novice, pulling tv out of box by pinching the screen. 
Anyway, he comes back to return counter and checks the receipt which has been on the counter the whole time. Looks at it and says sorry it's 2 days past the 14 day return period. Now by that point i'm just starting to get irritated because he expects me to take the tv back and is making remarks like you can try to sell it on craigslist or keep it; its a good tv...
I ask him to get a manager or supervisor, and he uses his headset to in my opinion pretend to call and ask if they can make an exception, of course its a no.
I start telling him i'm not taking it back. I said I will contact my credit card company and refuse to take the tv with me. I leave with nothing.

Upon his return to the counter, when he checked the receipt and started giving me trouble and the smart remarks. I did secretly start to record all of this via my 4k video smart phone as evidence of opened tv and refusal ect. For what ever reason in the moment knowing it was recording and getting no where, I figured it would benefit as well to show I left with nothing, knowing I would be contacting credit card company and from past experiences figured I could just resolve the issue easiest via that method. Guess not. Anyway I submit all this info to master card, capital one in my dispute. Video evidence provided on disc as well. Capital One said my dispute was closed because it does not qualify under any chargeback codes(reasons).

Talking with capital one supervisor, they said nothing they can do and "sounds like a legal matter", and try contacting corporate.


After reviewing this sites related post and master cards chargeback policies, ive found these possible eligible codes to chargeback:
4835 Card Not Valid or Expired (*my card is not signed, loophole?)
"Mastercard, for instance, dictates that a transaction can’t be processed unless the card is signed." "Card is not valid if not signed."

4849 Questionable Merchant Activity (?)
4855 Nonreceipt of Merchandise (have no merchandise or funds returned)

Anyone have advice, should I continue with "second presentment" of dispute with credit card and which code(s) would yield best results?
Alternative methods? Contact corporate? BBB? BestBuyForums? Go the Youtube/forum/Yelp/Review/BadPress Method as last resort? Small Claims?

Appreciate it, and this furthers my reason to not shop at best buy, and possible switch back to VISA vs MC bc I have won every dispute ever filed with VISA and have lost 2/2 with MC(both filed this year and in same month, no previous dispute history past 3 yrs with MC).

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It would be funny if someone actually said that.

ZenNUTS (Dec. 22, 2016 @ 1:50p) |

What's funny is nobody actually had to.

DTASFAB (Dec. 22, 2016 @ 2:25p) |

Kinda like how the fines never out way the crimes? and almost never incur a jail sentence?
Banks & Pharmaceutical compani... (more)

omegagamingkingdom (Dec. 22, 2016 @ 4:37p) |

Bought a Tv from best_buy. Returned it unopened. A new employee, i'm assuming, said he had to open it to verify contents..blah blah. Thought nothing of it.
Takes everything out of box, sets it up, turns it on, puts it back in the box. Complete novice, pulling tv out of box by pinching the screen. 
Anyway, he comes back to return counter and checks the receipt which has been on the counter the whole time. Looks at it and says sorry it's 2 days past the 14 day return period. Now by that point i'm just starting to get irritated because he expects me to take the tv back and is making remarks like you can try to sell it on craigslist or keep it; its a good tv...
I ask him to get a manager or supervisor, and he uses his headset to in my opinion pretend to call and ask if they can make an exception, of course its a no.
I start telling him i'm not taking it back. I said I will contact my credit card company and refuse to take the tv with me. I leave with nothing.

I did secretly record all of this via my 4k video smart phone as evidence and to show I leave with nothing. I submit all this info to master card, capital one in my dispute. Video evidence provided on disc as well. Capital One said my dispute is closed because it does not qualify under any chargeback codes(reasons).

Talking with capital one supervisor, they said nothing they can do and "sounds like a legal matter", and try contacting corporate.


After reviewing this sites related post and master cards chargeback policies, ive found these possible eligible codes to chargeback:
4835 Card Not Valid or Expired (*my card is not signed, loophole?)
4849 Questionable Merchant Activity (?)
4855 Nonreceipt of Merchandise (have no merchandise or funds returned)

Anyone have advice, should I continue with "second presentment" of dispute with credit card and which code(s) would yield best results?
Alternative methods? Contact corporate? BBB? BestBuyForums? Go the Youtube/forum/Yelp/Review/BadPress Method as last resort? Small Claims?

Appreciate it, and this furthers my reason to not shop at best buy, and possible switch back to VISA vs MC bc I have won every dispute ever filed with VISA and have lost 2/2 with MC(both filed this year and in same month, no previous dispute history past 3 yrs with MC).
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Preemptive...
WorstBuy said:
omegagamingkingdom said:   
WorstBuy said:
omegagamingkingdom said:   I would like my TV back.
What TV?

The one I left here yesterday.

Don't know what you're talking about.
 

You should abandon your dispute and try to get your TV back. Or look at the funds spent as the cost of learning how not to do a CC chargeback.

Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card... Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

I don't see how you can win a chargeback in this situation. You should tell them ahead that your tv is already passed the return period even before you drag that tv into the store.

MrKlick said:   Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges  Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

  I don't know of any state where it's illegal to record someone in public... can you please provide a source for this claim?

to OP, you don't really have any recourse.  Best Buy laid out the terms for you, as crappy as those terms might be.  My takeaway here would be not to shop at Best Buy anymore.  You can try escalating to Best Buy corporate, but blaming the store or Cap1 or Mastercard won't really get you anywhere because you're the one that's trying to bend the rules of the program.

defjukie said:   
MrKlick said:   Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges  Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

  I don't know of any state where it's illegal to record someone in public... can you please provide a source for this claim?

to OP, you don't really have any recourse.  Best Buy laid out the terms for you, as crappy as those terms might be.  My takeaway here would be not to shop at Best Buy anymore.  You can try escalating to Best Buy corporate, but blaming the store or Cap1 or Mastercard won't really get you anywhere because you're the one that's trying to bend the rules of the program.

  I don't think inside a Best Buy is considered "public" for open recording and the illegal part is he said he secretly recorded.  Several states require parties to be notified that they are being recorded.  List here about halfway down the in the "When must you get permission from everyone involved before recording?" section : http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conver... 
 

4855 Nonreceipt of Merchandise (have no merchandise or funds returned)

Great idea! I'll give every product I don't want to a homeless person and then chargeback because "well, I don't have the merchandise".

Give me a break! You should have used your credit card return feature instead of getting upset that the store wouldn't take it back outside of their return policy.
 

You sound like a big baby.

I don't know how it was received by your card issuing bank, but to me the secretly recorded 4k video of the entire episode suggests you were aware you didn't follow their return policies and were expecting difficulty. You let the BB employee open up your TV and test it out.

I've sworn off BB too (and this time, I mean it), but this doesn't sound like they are the problem. If you are unhappy with how your bank handled this, that's what you'd want to switch - no more Chase or Capital One or whatever. Visa and MC aren't really involved. But I can't see how any of them could have sided with you except in error.

Quick Question OP: What date did you purchase your TV?
Best buy has extended return period that starts from November 1st for holidays so pretty much any merchandise you purchase can be returned till January 15th.

omegagamingkingdom said:   I leave with nothing.

 

And that was where you made your mistake.  

Please do not click disagree with OP. This will result with fewer people reading this thread.

This is an important lesson to all of us about what not to do in similar situations.

OP I feel your frustration. The only thing you can ask now is to get your TV back and kindly ask BB manager to issue you a courtesy refund. That refund should be in the amount of difference between craigslist/eBay price for an new item unopened box and new item open box. I'd think this would be arround 5-10% of eBay/craigslist price (not BB)

Next thread... Best Buy lost my TV

cuant said:   OP I feel your frustration. The only thing you can ask now is to get your TV back and kindly ask BB manager to issue you a courtesy refund. That refund should be in the amount of difference between craigslist/eBay price for an new item unopened box and new item open box. I'd think this would be arround 5-10% of eBay/craigslist price (not BB)
 

  The return associate could have handled it better; perhaps he assumed it was within the return deadline and wanted to make sure the TV is still in working condition. However, there is nothing that indicates OP was unaware of the fact that it was later than the return deadline. I dont see how Bb owes him a refund. OP is at best owed the open box TV that he "abandoned" at the counter (if it is still there).

OP doesn't deserve a full refund, but he absolutely deserves compensation of some sort. Whether he'll get it or how he could get it is beyond me. Most likely he'd have to sue BB in small claims court, and I think he'd have a decent case in front of a judge.

The idiot employee opened a perfectly good factory sealed box under the pretense that he was doing it as a required part of the return process. He pinched the screen and potentially damaged the television, and even if nothing was damaged, he dramatically reduced the secondary market resale value of the Boxed item because it was no longer factory sealed.

Then he rejected the return for reasons having nothing to do with anything wrong he found inside the box he had opened. Whether it was immense and sheer incompetence or malicious bad faith, BB should bear some responsibility for what they've done. Opening the box and checking the contents should be the very last part of the return process just prior to issuing the customer a refund.

I'm so sick of these big box stores ripping people off that ironically, the only one I'll occasionally still shop at is the biggest, baddest, most evil one of all, WalMart.  At least there I know I'm walking into a jungle. The others pretend to cater to upscale clientele when in fact they're just as sleazy as WM or even worse.  This makes WM look a little more honest about who and what they are, and I appreciate that.

It's sounds like you're  intentionally asking for problems and a lot of drama. You need to know the rules before you play the game. Now you might minus a new TV in addition.
 

Next time use a credit card with "Return Protection" & save the charge-back as a last resort for other more important issues than changing your mind on a tv... and you never should have allowed them to open the box.

Depending on the price of the TV, Return Protection is probably not an option.

I thought that "Return Protection" covers up to a certain amount per transaction. If the TV was over $500, it's probably not an option and depending on his card, the protection may be lower. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Definitely legal action. Sue yourself for being stupid.

hairybeast said:   
defjukie said:   
MrKlick said:   Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges  Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

  I don't know of any state where it's illegal to record someone in public... can you please provide a source for this claim?

to OP, you don't really have any recourse.  Best Buy laid out the terms for you, as crappy as those terms might be.  My takeaway here would be not to shop at Best Buy anymore.  You can try escalating to Best Buy corporate, but blaming the store or Cap1 or Mastercard won't really get you anywhere because you're the one that's trying to bend the rules of the program.

  I don't think inside a Best Buy is considered "public" for open recording and the illegal part is he said he secretly recorded.  Several states require parties to be notified that they are being recorded.  List here about halfway down the in the "When must you get permission from everyone involved before recording?" section : http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conver... 

  You're right, Best Buy would not be considered "public" as it is a private business.  The link you provided deals mostly with phones calls and audio recordings; however, the way I understand it the laws are much more relaxed when it comes to video recordings.  AFAIK, you are allowed to secretly video someone unless in a place where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy (public bathroom, etc.), which Best Buy most definitely does not fall into.  I don't know of any states that have more restrictions in place.

Probably worth the filing fees. I doubt they'll even bother to show up over a $500 TV set. Assuming you want to spend the time on it and miss at least a day of work over it. 

Send them a letter asking them to preserve the surveillance tapes from that day. CMRR.


 

But you really should follow up with the store manager before escalating to chargebacks and litigation. Storming off without the tv or a refund didn't really help. I'm assuming you're closer to 20 than 50.

You claim the employee seemed "new", you should have asked to speak to the manager directly. They may or may not have helped you in this situation. If they took it back, fine... if not, the normal person would have left with the TV and learned to read the return policy beforehand.

See if your card does have a return protection, different from low price protection.
With return protection, you can file a claim with the cc for items that the store refuse to accept as a return.

scottvm said:   See if your card does have a return protection, different from low price protection.
With return protection, you can file a claim with the cc for items that the store refuse to accept as a return.

  How does that work when OP no longer has the item?

Typical new member 1 post and out. Maybe people should have to have a few posts before they can create a new topic.
Of course it is click bait

Guys the little sticker on the front door at best buy that says you're under video/audio surveillance is their notice that everyone in the store should expect to be recorded at all times except perhaps the bathroom. It doesn't just apply to the customers.

juliox said:   Guys the little sticker on the front door at best buy that says you're under video/audio surveillance is their notice that everyone in the store should expect to be recorded at all times except perhaps the bathroom. It doesn't just apply to the customers.
  Yeah, go with that.   I've worked for several govt. agencies doing surveillance work, and the "legal" advice given every time this issue comes up is laughable.  The laws are vastly different from state to state, and sometimes even within different areas of the same state.    In many places, a notice by one party doesn't mean consent by all parties.  In other places it does.   A sticker on the door definitely doesn't trump any applicable laws.  

MrKlick said:   Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges  Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

  How do you see filing as a billing error being successful or even qualifying for this issue? Can you explain your thoughts?
fwuser12 said:   
cuant said:   OP I feel your frustration. The only thing you can ask now is to get your TV back and kindly ask BB manager to issue you a courtesy refund. That refund should be in the amount of difference between craigslist/eBay price for an new item unopened box and new item open box. I'd think this would be arround 5-10% of eBay /craigslist price (not BB)
  The return associate could have handled it better; perhaps he assumed it was within the return deadline and wanted to make sure the TV is still in working condition. However, there is nothing that indicates OP was unaware of the fact that it was later than the return deadline. I dont see how Bb owes him a refund. OP is at best owed the open box TV that he "abandoned" at the counter (if it is still there).

  Agreed. I also assumed it was within the return period.
DTASFAB said:   OP doesn't deserve a full refund, but he absolutely deserves compensation of some sort. Whether he'll get it or how he could get it is beyond me. Most likely he'd have to sue BB in small claims court, and I think he'd have a decent case in front of a judge.

The idiot employee opened a perfectly good factory sealed box under the pretense that he was doing it as a required part of the return process. He pinched the screen and potentially damaged the television, and even if nothing was damaged, he dramatically reduced the secondary market resale value of the Boxed item because it was no longer factory sealed.

Then he rejected the return for reasons having nothing to do with anything wrong he found inside the box he had opened. Whether it was immense and sheer incompetence or malicious bad faith, BB should bear some responsibility for what they've done. Opening the box and checking the contents should be the very last part of the return process just prior to issuing the customer a refund.

I'm so sick of these big box stores ripping people off that ironically, the only one I'll occasionally still shop at is the biggest, baddest, most evil one of all, WalMart.  At least there I know I'm walking into a jungle. The others pretend to cater to upscale clientele when in fact they're just as sleazy as WM or even worse.  This makes WM look a little more honest about who and what they are, and I appreciate that.

​I may have not handled it perfectly, as one can only act on previous experience and knowledge. "
...idiot employee opened a perfectly good factory sealed box..." 
Somehow people most who replied ignorantly seem to miss certain key points.  
" He pinched the screen and potentially damaged the television.." 
Agreed. 
  
LOOPHOLE said:   Next time use a credit card with "Return Protection" & save the charge-back as a last resort for other more important issues than changing your mind on a tv... and you never should have allowed them to open the box.
   Not aware of any? or ever heard of this with any credit card.

defjukie said:   
 You're right, Best Buy would not be considered "public" as it is a private business.  The link you provided deals mostly with phones calls and audio recordings; however, the way I understand it the laws are much more relaxed when it comes to video recordings.  AFAIK, you are allowed to secretly video someone unless in a place where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy (public bathroom, etc.), which Best Buy most definitely does not fall into.  I don't know of any states that have more restrictions in place.

It is legal in my state to even record phone calls without consent. (In most instances. merchants, company reps, ect as long as the other party agrees to talk to you by answering the phone, and you are not wiretapping).
Even video without sound in your home(Except where anyone expects privacy, Bathrooms). Although courts tend to not care especially when it's being used as evidence.
Video in public or private business's (Except where anyone expects privacy, Bathrooms).
cuant said:   Please do not click disagree with OP. This will result with fewer people reading this thread.

This is an important lesson to all of us about what not to do in similar situations.

OP I feel your frustration. 

 
Seriously. I could care less, but definitely a good learning opportunity in several aspects.
This is the whole reason I found this site and used it previously and for this post.

I was heated in the moment and it was a $400 out the door 40" 4k Tv. Not gonna break my bank and I expected my credit card to cover me as I have never had any issues before. Unfortunately this case was different in regards to what the credit company could legally do via charge-backs. Checking a receipt is the first thing an employee will do at any store(other stores..).

Damaging my goods which I brought into their store under the bases of being able to return it. Never the less they expected me to take it back? Is that any different than a BB employee coming up and smashing my phone? Easily a winnable court course if I really have to go that route. Worth my time? 99.9% of any issue is if you have a winnable chance. Even if your only "reward" is to serve up some justice. It's those who lie down and do nothing and continue to let especially these big corps walk all over us, teaches them to keep doing it with no repercussions or liability. Some of you may think my actions were rash. Maybe, but defiantly the victim in the situation.
Honestly as DTASFAB;19733342 stated, which I quoted above, I am also sick of the big box stores, all the hassles and much more. Sick of all the disrespect and issues now a days with every aspect of money, our economy, inflation, monopolies, bills bills bills, overcharging, shit breaking immediately or right after warranty period, price gouging and so on and on...

For all those who supplied positive responses, advice or insight, thanks.



No one said anything about other charge-back options possibly being valid or a way out of my issue.
"Not Valid Without Signature" can be found on Visa and MasterCard credit cards.



omegagamingkingdom said:   
MrKlick said:   Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges  Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

  How do you see filing as a billing error being successful or even qualifying for this issue? Can you explain your thoughts?
 

  
All chargebacks are handled as "billing errors". Writing a letter instead of calling is solid advice for all chargebacks.

doveroftke said:   
omegagamingkingdom said:   
MrKlick said:   Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges  Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

  How do you see filing as a billing error being successful or even qualifying for this issue? Can you explain your thoughts?

  
All chargebacks are handled as "billing errors". Writing a letter instead of calling is solid advice for all chargebacks.

  
Solid advice? I'm aware in future to file that way, but I dont know what you or the previously quoter is getting at.

omegagamingkingdom said:   Bought a Tv from best_buy. Returned it unopened. A new employee, i'm assuming, said he had to open it to verify contents..blah blah. Thought nothing of it.
I returned an unopened TV at BestBuy today. They did not open the box.

Powza said:   
omegagamingkingdom said:   Bought a Tv from best_buy. Returned it unopened. A new employee, i'm assuming, said he had to open it to verify contents..blah blah. Thought nothing of it.
I returned an unopened TV at BestBuy today. They did not open the box.

  
It probably wasn't past return period, and you definitely didn't have the employee I had.
but you already knew that.

so you wasted your time dragging a tv back to best buy that you knew was past the return period and didn't bother to tell them until after letting them open the box?
well done.

bxlefty23 said:   so you wasted your time dragging a tv back to best buy that you knew was past the return period and didn't bother to tell them until after letting them open the box?
well done.

  
What makes you think that?  I only started recording after he decided to refuse return, when he came back to the counter and checked the receipt.
Suppose I should edit that.

There, updated.

Can I ask why the unopened TV was returned in the first place?

Was this an ad hoc "price rewind" type of situation? Black Friday -> eBay scheme gone wrong? Or...?

irate_retro said:   Can I ask why the unopened TV was returned in the first place?

Was this an ad hoc "price rewind" type of situation? Black Friday -> eBay scheme gone wrong? Or...?

  
I bought a Samsung same size and category on Amazon, but was told there would be a delay due to restocking after purchasing and need a 4k tv by my birthday for film show. I waited some time. Than went to bb instead of WalMart(damit), for my 2nd choice(backup plan), and literally the next day Amazon told me it was in stock and on way, and would arrive by time I needed it, so I did not need the vizio. Things got busy and wasnt thinking/recalling BB was the only place in the country(that I know of) with a very limited and sneaky 14/15 day return policy. Receipt actually says for me to go online to figure out my actual return period...

omegagamingkingdom said:   
doveroftke said:   
omegagamingkingdom said:   
MrKlick said:   Two observations:

1. Depending on your state it may be a crime to record someone--even in public.   This can be a tricky area and caution is an excellent idea.

2.Forget whatever Cap1 told you on the 'phone and initiate the billing error procedure mandated by the Fair Credit Billing Act by sending written notice to the special billing error address on your statement.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0219-disputing-credit-card-charges  Also forget the billing error codes as that is not your problem right now.

  How do you see filing as a billing error being successful or even qualifying for this issue? Can you explain your thoughts?

  
All chargebacks are handled as "billing errors". Writing a letter instead of calling is solid advice for all chargebacks.

  
Solid advice? I'm aware in future to file that way, but I dont know what you or the previously quoter is getting at.

  
It's just general chargeback advice for the future.

Skipping 4 Messages...
DTASFAB said:   I remember when I bought my big plasma in 2009, I ordered from Costco instead of BB in part because at the time, BB wasn't accepting returns on any televisions larger than 27 inches.

Funny how when individuals steal, they're thieves, but when businesses steal, they're never wrong.

  
Kinda like how the fines never out way the crimes? and almost never incur a jail sentence?
Banks & Pharmaceutical companies come to my mind as greatest offenders.

Costco is a great place for certain things. I prefer to get my TV's from costco/sams club, but have no issue with Amazon as prime member as of yet.



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