Tenant not letting me show the house to prospective tenants

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Tenant not letting me show the house to prospective tenants   It is in the contract they signed. They replied via email that due to safety of their children they can't allow that. What are my options?   Can I not do the showing and keep 100% of security deposit?
they are not answering my calls or email. I am losing time. They have given the 30 day notice. 

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RedWolfe01 (Jan. 04, 2017 @ 8:07a) |

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What state? There may be state specific rules.

"safety of their children" ... hmm thats odd. ARe they leaving minor children alone?

Are you able to schedule a time when the adults are home to show it or a time when the whole family is away to show it?

Its feasible their reason is BS and the house is a mess and they don't want to to see/know until they're gone.

You've got bigger problems than losing a few weeks of rent.

jerosen said:   What state? There may be state specific rules.

"safety of their children" ... hmm thats odd. ARe they leaving minor children alone?

Are you able to schedule a time when the adults are home to show it or a time when the whole family is away to show it?

Its feasible their reason is BS and the house is a mess and they don't want to to see/know until they're gone.

  Arizona.  

swandown said:   You've got bigger problems than losing a few weeks of rent.
  They have never been late. Good credit. Let see if they pay this time on Jan 1st. 

Does your lease have language about showing the house?

Schedule a "maintenance" visit for some fabricated reason. Furnace inspection, change smoke detectors, radon test, anything. Just you alone, no potential tenants. Just to get inside and see the condition of the place. See what excuse they provide then.

I always cite FL state statute saying I have to give 12 hour notice before entering for any reason. I tell them regardless of if they are home I will be coming in.


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33-1343. Access
A. The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises, make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations or improvements, supply necessary or agreed services or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagees, tenants, workmen or contractors.
B. If the tenant notifies the landlord of a service request or a request for maintenance as prescribed in section 33-1341, paragraph 8, the notice from the tenant constitutes permission from the tenant for the landlord to enter the dwelling unit pursuant to subsection D of this section for the sole purpose of acting on the service or maintenance request and the tenant waives receipt of any separate or additional access notice that may be required pursuant to subsection D of this section.
C. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit without consent of the tenant in case of emergency.
D. The landlord shall not abuse the right to access or use it to harass the tenant. Except in case of emergency or if it is impracticable to do so, the landlord shall give the tenant at least two days' notice of the landlord's intent to enter and enter only at reasonable times.
E. The landlord has no other right of access except by court order and as permitted by sections 33-1369 and 33-1370, or if the tenant has abandoned or surrendered the premises.

pietromoon said:   Read on

33-1343. Access
A. The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises, make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations or improvements, supply necessary or agreed services or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagees, tenants, workmen or contractors.
B. If the tenant notifies the landlord of a service request or a request for maintenance as prescribed in section 33-1341, paragraph 8, the notice from the tenant constitutes permission from the tenant for the landlord to enter the dwelling unit pursuant to subsection D of this section for the sole purpose of acting on the service or maintenance request and the tenant waives receipt of any separate or additional access notice that may be required pursuant to subsection D of this section.
C. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit without consent of the tenant in case of emergency.
D. The landlord shall not abuse the right to access or use it to harass the tenant. Except in case of emergency or if it is impracticable to do so, the landlord shall give the tenant at least two days' notice of the landlord's intent to enter and enter only at reasonable times.
E. The landlord has no other right of access except by court order and as permitted by sections 33-1369 and 33-1370, or if the tenant has abandoned or surrendered the premises.

  Thanks for posting this. Now, if the tenant violates this by not allowing me, what are my options?  

They're in default. But are you really going to evict them them when they've already given their notice?
 

irate_retro said:   Schedule a "maintenance" visit for some fabricated reason. Furnace inspection, change smoke detectors, radon test, anything. Just you alone, no potential tenants. Just to get inside and see the condition of the place. See what excuse they provide then.
  This. Sooner rather than later.

TravelerMSY said:   They're in default. But are you really going to evict them them when they've already given their notice?
  Well. If they have good credit, they would not want eviction on their record. Just thinking about sending a letter via certified mail.  I will have to be careful with my language, not to sound threatening but help my cause. At least I know that by not granting me access they can be evicted. 

king0fSpades said:   pietromoon said:   Read on

33-1343. Access
A. The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises, make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations or improvements, supply necessary or agreed services or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagees, tenants, workmen or contractors.
B. If the tenant notifies the landlord of a service request or a request for maintenance as prescribed in section 33-1341, paragraph 8, the notice from the tenant constitutes permission from the tenant for the landlord to enter the dwelling unit pursuant to subsection D of this section for the sole purpose of acting on the service or maintenance request and the tenant waives receipt of any separate or additional access notice that may be required pursuant to subsection D of this section.
C. The landlord may enter the dwelling unit without consent of the tenant in case of emergency.
D. The landlord shall not abuse the right to access or use it to harass the tenant. Except in case of emergency or if it is impracticable to do so, the landlord shall give the tenant at least two days' notice of the landlord's intent to enter and enter only at reasonable times.
E. The landlord has no other right of access except by court order and as permitted by sections 33-1369 and 33-1370, or if the tenant has abandoned or surrendered the premises.

  Thanks for posting this. Now, if the tenant violates this by not allowing me, what are my options?  


Eviction.

They are leaving anyway, no? I'd just nitpick the crud out of their security deposit for being such a PITA.

TravelerMSY said:   
irate_retro said:   Schedule a "maintenance" visit for some fabricated reason. Furnace inspection, change smoke detectors, radon test, anything. Just you alone, no potential tenants. Just to get inside and see the condition of the place. See what excuse they provide then.
  This. Sooner rather than later.

  They have never ever been late. Rent is due Jan 1st. First thing I want to do it collect the rent. Now if they don't pay that, then I will do the inspection visit. 

If you ask me, that statute is poorly written. It says "The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises".  Putting aside what might be "reasonable" and not...  Later on it says the landlord must give two days notice of the intent to enter.  If consent from the tenant is required, as the first sentence seems to imply, then why the 2 days notice?  These seem to be in conflict.

OP, when is the last time you've been in the place?  You seem to be awfully concerned about one month of rent.  I'd be more worried about $10-20k in repairs.

Cooking meth for sure.

Geez, I've had worse tenant than one that doesn't allow showing of the house. Leave them alone, they'll be out in 30 days and you have all the time you need to show it afterward.

TonyVH said:   Geez, I've had worse tenant than one that doesn't allow showing of the house. Leave them alone, they'll be out in 30 days and you have all the time you need to show it afterward.
  See, good tenants don't rent the house right away.  They have to give notice to their previous landlord. It means I will be out of rent for 2 months

Again, can I keep their security deposit to cover my losses? I am assuming they are not getting anything anyway as I expect the damages will be more than the month's rent. 

I used to have 24hours notice in my lease. I took it out. NC has no statues specifically governing this.

If they do no give you access, then they are preventing you from leasing it. I would charge rent for every day it delays getting a new tenant, beyond when they move out.

I doubt your claim will pass muster in any small claims court.

So you have the law firmly on your side if you call them up and say "I'll be bringing a prospective tenant 48 hours from now" and then you do it?

king0fSpades said:   Tenant not letting me show the house to prospective tenants   It is in the contract they signed. They replied via email that due to safety of their children they can't allow that. What are my options?   Can I not do the showing and keep 100% of security deposit?
they are not answering my calls or email. I am losing time. They have given the 30 day notice. 

 If they aren't answering YOUR calls or emails I suppose you could act like you never got THEIR email and show it anyway with reasonable notice. Or why not at least list it now and say you can't show it until the 1st? Might lose a few days rent but would save much drama.

jerosen said:   "safety of their children" ... hmm thats odd. ARe they leaving minor children alone?
  Yea, call CPS on them. They won't trash the place then. 

king0fSpades said:   
TonyVH said:   Geez, I've had worse tenant than one that doesn't allow showing of the house. Leave them alone, they'll be out in 30 days and you have all the time you need to show it afterward.
  See, good tenants don't rent the house right away.  They have to give notice to their previous landlord. It means I will be out of rent for 2 months

Again, can I keep their security deposit to cover my losses? I am assuming they are not getting anything anyway as I expect the damages will be more than the month's rent. 

  
What itemized damages are you claiming done to the property that will be paid out of the security deposit? Are you providing the tenant with the itemized list?  Remember you can't list your own time, so it is better to use contractors.   If you can't do that, you better know your state's law intimately or risk a significant loss in court, up to 3x the amount you are claiming, plus the tenant's reasonable attorney fees (before court and during court), plus the court costs, depending on state.

alamo11 said:   I always cite FL state statute saying I have to give 12 hour notice before entering for any reason. I tell them regardless of if they are home I will be coming in.
  I could imagine, especially in FL, that is a good way to get shot. Maybe boyfriend, spouse, roommate didn't get the notice.

You can not keep the security deposit to cover loss of rent due to unfilled vacancy AFTER the tenant left (since they're giving proper 30 day notice). So no you can't keep the deposit to cover lost rent in that situation.

You can keep the deposit to pay for damages or unpaid rent generally and thats it.

Have you talked to the tenant to try and work out a day/time when they are ok with you showing the place?

Do you have a key?

taxmantoo said:   So you have the law firmly on your side if you call them up and say "I'll be bringing a prospective tenant 48 hours from now" and then you do it?

This
Just show up, knock on the door, open the door, and walk in and announce loudly "landlord here showing the apartment". With proper advanced notice of course.

Unless they've changed the locks or something it doesn't seem like there is much they can do or that they have any say in the matter.

Get your Jan 1 rent first.

Why are you showing it? You said "rent is due Jan 1st". DO NOT change the locks until they are out.

Thanks for all the posts. Let see if they are pay the Jan rent on 1st. Then I can give a 48 hours notice.

atikovi said:   
alamo11 said:   I always cite FL state statute saying I have to give 12 hour notice before entering for any reason. I tell them regardless of if they are home I will be coming in.
  I could imagine, especially in FL, that is a good way to get shot. Maybe boyfriend, spouse, roommate didn't get the notice.

  Funny you say this. I had a tenant (she was a cop trying to conceal her unauthorized pitbulls) tell me she was going to "stand her ground" if I walked into the house. I forwarded that email to several high-ranking people in her department.. Then I knit picked her for every dime of the security deposit.   

atikovi said:   
jerosen said:   "safety of their children" ... hmm thats odd. ARe they leaving minor children alone?
  Yea, call CPS on them. They won't trash the place then. 

  This. If a tenant is being negligent or otherwise doing something that *may* endanger the children call the police. 

Per the phrasing "shall not unreasonably withhold consent" it sounds like it is up to the tenant to GIVE that consent and you likely have the burden to prove its reasonable. It didn't say "you can enter without consent." So it isn't as permissive as it sounds.

I suspect that the tenants are in their last bit so are not worried about anything you can do. How much rent do they owe you to the end of their 30 day notice? Once they pay that pro-rate you don't have any leverage on them at all.

You are likely SOL, if you run tenants through anyway then they will badmouth you. Just suck it up, having a 30 day "no rent" period between tenants is normal -- one reason no landlord likes short leases.

Edit to add:  payback is a #####, they will likely give you as a LL reference.  Just tell the truth...

Back in the 80's my parents owned a couple of very modest small single family homes that they rented out.  I remember very clearly, there was one that the tenants never wanted to have us come by.  They always paid on time.  Last month, they paid, then when we went in to clean: entire garage full of garbage, to the ceiling.  Every single wall covered with human feces, like painted on.  Some on the ceiling too.  $250 security deposit didn't exactly cover that.  I think my parents just sold the house "As is". 

RedWolfe01 said:   Per the phrasing "shall not unreasonably withhold consent" it sounds like it is up to the tenant to GIVE that consent and you likely have the burden to prove its reasonable. It didn't say "you can enter without consent." So it isn't as permissive as it sounds.

I suspect that the tenants are in their last bit so are not worried about anything you can do. How much rent do they owe you to the end of their 30 day notice? Once they pay that pro-rate you don't have any leverage on them at all.

You are likely SOL, if you run tenants through anyway then they will badmouth you. Just suck it up, having a 30 day "no rent" period between tenants is normal -- one reason no landlord likes short leases.

Edit to add:  payback is a #####, they will likely give you as a LL reference.  Just tell the truth...

  If I was on a jury, I would consider withholding like they are doing unreasonable. But that being said you are probably SOL because any thing you can legally do is going to take 30 days.

bluegreenturtle said:   Back in the 80's my parents owned a couple of very modest small single family homes that they rented out.  I remember very clearly, there was one that the tenants never wanted to have us come by.  They always paid on time.  Last month, they paid, then when we went in to clean: entire garage full of garbage, to the ceiling.  Every single wall covered with human feces, like painted on.  Some on the ceiling too.  $250 security deposit didn't exactly cover that.  I think my parents just sold the house "As is". 
  My parents had similar similar rental experience where we cleaned the house with rakes and shovels.. All the rooms were covered with dirty clothes that looked like they were only worn once, washer and dryer must not have worked. The joys of being a landlord. My first house I rented out for 6 years to the same family, was getting ready to sell and went to give notice and they had moved out a couple days before. A couple broken windows, bullet hole in the bathroom floor and dirty. A week of painting and replacing carpet the house sold quickly. I kept the security deposit and had them settle for an additional $600 when we went to court for the excessive damages and unpaid water bill that was $500. 

Hire someone to show up with a big check and helium balloons and ring the doorbell. When they open the door to collect their millions, bam!

tightpapa said:   
RedWolfe01 said:   Per the phrasing "shall not unreasonably withhold consent" it sounds like it is up to the tenant to GIVE that consent and you likely have the burden to prove its reasonable. It didn't say "you can enter without consent." So it isn't as permissive as it sounds.

I suspect that the tenants are in their last bit so are not worried about anything you can do. How much rent do they owe you to the end of their 30 day notice? Once they pay that pro-rate you don't have any leverage on them at all.

You are likely SOL, if you run tenants through anyway then they will badmouth you. Just suck it up, having a 30 day "no rent" period between tenants is normal -- one reason no landlord likes short leases.

Edit to add:  payback is a #####, they will likely give you as a LL reference.  Just tell the truth...

  If I was on a jury, I would consider withholding like they are doing unreasonable. But that being said you are probably SOL because any thing you can legally do is going to take 30 days.

  
Yeah, that was why I said SOL.  Burden of proof is on the LL and they will be in the wind LONG before you can get a hearing.   

To be fair, regardless of what it SAYS I am not happy when folks decide to inspect/visit/whatever either.  My HOA does a fire inspection every year and if I am not home then they don't get to do mine.  I changed my locks and have not given them a new key and do not plan to.  My NEIGHBOR has a key (and I have access to her unit too) but not the association.  If its REALLY important they can hire a locksmith which did happen once 6 years or so back for a leak.   

RedWolfe01 said:   My HOA does a fire inspection every year and if I am not home then they don't get to do mine.  
 

  Never heard of that. What if you open the door and tell them no?

Skipping 29 Messages...
henry33 said:   
RedWolfe01 said:    
Most locksmiths won't get destructive unless the person who owns the property is there to approve.  I was amazed how easy most locks are to drill out if you know how.  20 seconds and you can defeat most deadbolts.

LOL, sawzall?  Yeah, right.  That is a little bit TOO destructive unless its a special case where the bolt is exposed.  (actually done THAT one before too)


I've seen it done before. I guess it works if there's enough of a gap where you can slide the blade between the crack in the door to get to the deadbolt. Inside the deadbolt, it was hollow, surprised to see that, I guess it was a cheap deadbolt. It didn't damage the door just cut the deadbolt off.
  

  
Yeah, like I said, the deadbolt was exposed -- I have done it before on a storage area which had an exposed deadbolt.  After that I installed a shield to prevent anyone else from doing what I did.  It still does paint, door and jamb damage.

Nobody with any sense has an exposed bolt on a external primary access door.  That is why doors always swing IN to an apartment/house instead of out.



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