Bitcoin US$1,000

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Bitcoin broke $1,000 today but currently is a bit below that.

I've been buying some, bit by bit, for years. I admit I don't understand all bitcoin, but a lot of things I use I don't understand.

Any opinions on where it heads from here? I've read some outrageous predictions, but much of that are people with giant egos who want their names quoted.

To "celebrate" this milestone, I just used my bitcoin debit card at McDonald's for breakfast. My Egg McMuffin meal set me back 0.0067 bitcoins.

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I predict it will hit $2017 in 2017.

burgerwars said:   
To "celebrate" this milestone, I just used my bitcoin debit card at McDonald's for breakfast. My Egg McMuffin meal set me back 0.0067 bitcoins.


You spent $67 on a McDonald's meal?!

wpgabriel said:   burgerwars said:   
To "celebrate" this milestone, I just used my bitcoin debit card at McDonald's for breakfast. My Egg McMuffin meal set me back 0.0067 bitcoins.


You spent $67 on a McDonald's meal?!

That would be $6.70.

supersnoop00 said:   
wpgabriel said:   
burgerwars said:   
To "celebrate" this milestone, I just used my bitcoin debit card at McDonald's for breakfast. My Egg McMuffin meal set me back 0.0067 bitcoins.


You spent $67 on a McDonald's meal?!

That would be $6.70.

  Hey, he's ballin.  The OP probably supersized it and upgraded the coffee to OJ!

McDonald's was $6.63. No OJ upgrade.

Wait until the new administration get its hands into things, and Egg McMuffin meals may cost $67.

i had 1000 bitcoins i bought for $10 - sold for $30 - but then it went to $1000 a btc in 2013 now it's back. fml.

churningisdead said:   i had 1000 bitcoins i bought for $10 - sold for $30 - but then it went to $1000 a btc in 2013 now it's back. fml.
  You were a millionaire!

burgerwars said:   Bitcoin broke $1,000 today but currently is a bit below that.

I've been buying some, bit by bit, for years. I admit I don't understand all bitcoin, but a lot of things I use I don't understand.

Any opinions on where it heads from here? I've read some outrageous predictions, but much of that are people with giant egos who want their names quoted.

To "celebrate" this milestone, I just used my bitcoin debit card at McDonald's for breakfast. My Egg McMuffin meal set me back 0.0067 bitcoins.

  
Won't you now have to include this in your tax filings as a capital gain (or loss depending on how you obtained your bitcoins and/or at what price) per the IRS stance on bitcoin & other e-currencies?

bigbard27 said:   
burgerwars said:   Bitcoin broke $1,000 today but currently is a bit below that.

I've been buying some, bit by bit, for years. I admit I don't understand all bitcoin, but a lot of things I use I don't understand.

Any opinions on where it heads from here? I've read some outrageous predictions, but much of that are people with giant egos who want their names quoted.

To "celebrate" this milestone, I just used my bitcoin debit card at McDonald's for breakfast. My Egg McMuffin meal set me back 0.0067 bitcoins.

  
Won't you now have to include this in your tax filings as a capital gain (or loss depending on how you obtained your bitcoins and/or at what price) per the IRS stance on bitcoin & other e-currencies?

  
I think so.  Tax-wise, it will be easier to exchange larger amounts into USD and spend cash for day to day stuff.

At least I won't have to worry about capital gains on the McD meal until next year.

The IRS looks at it as a capital gain, but would they really worry about small (McDonald's value meal size) capital gains? There's been some news about Coinbase on this issue.

All this does get me wondering. If all your bitcoins are in offline wallets (using Blockchain.info and creating paper wallets) stuff is quite hidden. Just don't lose your keys or you've lost your bitcoins.

Duplicate deleted.

burgerwars said:   At least I won't have to worry about capital gains on the McD meal until next year.

The IRS looks at it as a capital gain, but would they really worry about small (McDonald's value meal size) capital gains? There's been some news about Coinbase on this issue.

All this does get me wondering. If all your bitcoins are in offline wallets (using Blockchain.info) stuff is quite hidden. Just don't lose your keys or you've lost your bitcoins.

  
Not to change the prediction theme too much but... If a person was to try to be sneaky the best option would be to buy and sell their BTC from meetups using a service like localbitcoins.com. Whether your btc is in coinbase, a phone app or offline in cold storage; there will always be a trail of addresses the btc went through to get to your address and blockchain search engines are sure to get better. 

The current IRS ruling on Bitcoin and other virtual currencies has them treated as property. IRS Virtual Currency Guidance.

"Virtual currency is treated as property for U.S. federal tax purposes. General tax principles that apply to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.
Wages paid to employees using virtual currency are taxable to the employee, must be reported by an employer on a Form W-2, and are subject to federal income tax withholding and payroll taxes.
Payments using virtual currency made to independent contractors and other service providers are taxable and self-employment tax rules generally apply. Normally, payers must issue Form 1099.
The character of gain or loss from the sale or exchange of virtual currency depends on whether the virtual currency is a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
A payment made using virtual currency is subject to information reporting to the same extent as any other payment made in property."

churningisdead said:   i had 1000 bitcoins i bought for $10 - sold for $30 - but then it went to $1000 a btc in 2013 now it's back. fml.
  
I would probably be clinically depressed if this happened to me.

CowbellMaster said:   
churningisdead said:   i had 1000 bitcoins i bought for $10 - sold for $30 - but then it went to $1000 a btc in 2013 now it's back. fml.
  
I would probably be clinically depressed if this happened to me.

  
not as bad as the guy that paid 10,000 bitcoins for a pizza in 2010 (to his credit it was those early transactions that made the whole thing more legit).

I also had bitcoins I bought and mined when it first crossed $1 (and sold around $100).  I can't justify getting back in at $1000.

Just saw online that now nearly all major companies now accept bitcoins as payment.

parkdanil said:   The current IRS ruling on Bitcoin and other virtual currencies has them treated as property...


 

  
Seriously, I don't think folks using virtual currencies really care one way or another as to what the IRS thinks.

Bitcoin is controlled overwhelming by one guy in China, with one major competitor based in Iceland- it is not a good long-term investment.

Edit- two operations in China

https://www.wired.com/2016/02/the-schism-over-bitcoin-is-how-bit...


 

bopc1996 said:   Just saw online that now nearly all major companies now accept bitcoins as payment.

Do you have a link to that article? In my, non-scientific buying of stuff, it's rare to find a place that takes bitcoin. Of course, a way around that, is use a debit card such as the Shift Visa offered by Coinbase. To the merchant, it's just like any other debit/credit card they take.  Bitcoin has been used more of a tool to store wealth, rather than as something to go shopping at the mall with. It's mainly being hoarded.

I've been a sceptic about bitcoin, but realize that my opinion isn't the final answer.  I just read on Marketwatch, that about 98% of recent bitcoin volume is coming from China, for a number of reasons.  My concern is all that concentration from one country and the possibility that China may step in and do something.

I do continue to buy bitcoin, an itty-bit at a time even with all its issues, but at $1,000 it's hard to justify for someone to pile in right now.   Then there's Ethereum.  It's been advertised as bitcoin, but better.  It might be, but the value of ether hasn't gone anywhere as bitcoin keeps creeping higher.  You can't fight the trend.  But I'm inclined to buy ether instead of bitcoin right now. I don't have a crystal ball on this subject, so I might as well diversify.





  

If Bitcoin was actually made into a physical coin, counterfeited Bitcoins will be sold on Alibaba for pennies. Be wary of trusting a system that is controlled in China.

CowbellMaster said:   churningisdead said:   i had 1000 bitcoins i bought for $10 - sold for $30 - but then it went to $1000 a btc in 2013 now it's back. fml.
  
I would probably be clinically depressed if this happened to me.


I bought AAPL at $30 and sold for $60 after a split. I was happy at the time too

Why does no one make these threads when bitcoin goes down by 30% or 40%? Bitcoin isn't an investment, its a pure speculation play. Would you double down after winning on roulette in Vegas? Then keep holding. But don't be surprised if you lose a lot of money doing this. I know we have a small and vocal contingent of bitcoin evangelists on FWF, but the truth is no one knows what the outcome will be here. Bitcoin could go down -99% in value and stay that way indefinitely. Or it could gain +100% tomorrow. Despite what anyone says, it is impossible to accurately assess how likely either of those outcomes are. Do you feel lucky? Then gamble, but be prepared to lose.

Americans still can't figure out to insert a chip & pin credit card. Mass numbers of people are never going to be using bitcoin for actual payment transactions, and thinking otherwise is pure bitcoin pumper fantasy.

I think it's well assumed bitcoin won't become the next dollar, euro, Swiss franc, etc. It's not going to replace regular currencies at Starbucks. It's something else.

I'm not a bitcoin evangelist, but I know not to just ignore it. The value of something is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Apple or Facebook stock can end up being worth nothing, if nobody wants to buy it. The stock market, buying gold, saving your money in a mattress, or whatever, is a gamble. That's life.

I think someone who bought bitcoin at $1, and woke-up this morning seeing it's worth $1,000, is feeling pretty smart.  He/she didn't let the opinion of others stop them.

Bitcoin is not an investment, it's a speculation. In fact, you should sell when people are making thread like this.

supersnoop00 said:   
wpgabriel said:   
burgerwars said:   
To "celebrate" this milestone, I just used my bitcoin debit card at McDonald's for breakfast. My Egg McMuffin meal set me back 0.0067 bitcoins.


You spent $67 on a McDonald's meal?!

That would be $6.70.

His comment was from a month in the future, when the bitcoin price hits $10,000.

burgerwars said:   I think it's well assumed bitcoin won't become the next dollar, euro, Swiss franc, etc. It's not going to replace regular currencies at Starbucks. It's something else.

I'm not a bitcoin evangelist, but I know not to just ignore it. The value of something is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Apple or Facebook stock can end up being worth nothing, if nobody wants to buy it. The stock market, buying gold, saving your money in a mattress, or whatever, is a gamble. That's life.

I think someone who bought bitcoin at $1, and woke-up this morning seeing it's worth $1,000, is feeling pretty smart.  He/she didn't let the opinion of others stop them.

  
If you really believe this then you don't understand what investing is. People buy stock in Apple, Facebook, whatever because those companies make something. People invest with them because their cash has potential productive value. Investing in bitcoin is a lot like investing in gold - neither actually do anything. They are at best a store of value, but that value fluctuates wildly based on market forces beyond anyone's ability to predict. Thus you are just speculating - hoping if you put $1.00 in that there are enough other greater fools who will also put some money in, thus raising the value of your $1.00 speculation to $2.00. That works great until you run out of greater fools. When will that be? Who knows. Lets hope you aren't holding the bag when it happens (but you probably will be given your posts on this). 

You confuse luck with intelligence....and eventually you will pay for that when bitcoin inevitably drops and you wish you had sold at $1,000. Your logic reminds me a lot of all the people buying gold at $1,500 proclaiming it would be going to $5,000 in just a few years.

magika said:   
burgerwars said:   I think it's well assumed bitcoin won't become the next dollar, euro, Swiss franc, etc. It's not going to replace regular currencies at Starbucks. It's something else.

I'm not a bitcoin evangelist, but I know not to just ignore it. The value of something is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Apple or Facebook stock can end up being worth nothing, if nobody wants to buy it. The stock market, buying gold, saving your money in a mattress, or whatever, is a gamble. That's life.

I think someone who bought bitcoin at $1, and woke-up this morning seeing it's worth $1,000, is feeling pretty smart.  He/she didn't let the opinion of others stop them.

  
If you really believe this then you don't understand what investing is. People buy stock in Apple, Facebook, whatever because those companies make something. People invest with them because their cash has potential productive value. Investing in bitcoin is a lot like investing in gold - neither actually do anything. They are at best a store of value, but that value fluctuates wildly based on market forces beyond anyone's ability to predict. Thus you are just speculating - hoping if you put $1.00 in that there are enough other greater fools who will also put some money in, thus raising the value of your $1.00 speculation to $2.00. That works great until you run out of greater fools. When will that be? Who knows. Lets hope you aren't holding the bag when it happens (but you probably will be given your posts on this). 

You confuse luck with intelligence....and eventually you will pay for that when bitcoin inevitably drops and you wish you had sold at $1,000. Your logic reminds me a lot of all the people buying gold at $1,500 proclaiming it would be going to $5,000 in just a few years.

  
Do you believe Bitcoin has no utility?

cyiwin said:   
magika said:   
burgerwars said:   I think it's well assumed bitcoin won't become the next dollar, euro, Swiss franc, etc. It's not going to replace regular currencies at Starbucks. It's something else.

I'm not a bitcoin evangelist, but I know not to just ignore it. The value of something is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Apple or Facebook stock can end up being worth nothing, if nobody wants to buy it. The stock market, buying gold, saving your money in a mattress, or whatever, is a gamble. That's life.

I think someone who bought bitcoin at $1, and woke-up this morning seeing it's worth $1,000, is feeling pretty smart.  He/she didn't let the opinion of others stop them.

  
If you really believe this then you don't understand what investing is. People buy stock in Apple, Facebook, whatever because those companies make something. People invest with them because their cash has potential productive value. Investing in bitcoin is a lot like investing in gold - neither actually do anything. They are at best a store of value, but that value fluctuates wildly based on market forces beyond anyone's ability to predict. Thus you are just speculating - hoping if you put $1.00 in that there are enough other greater fools who will also put some money in, thus raising the value of your $1.00 speculation to $2.00. That works great until you run out of greater fools. When will that be? Who knows. Lets hope you aren't holding the bag when it happens (but you probably will be given your posts on this). 

You confuse luck with intelligence....and eventually you will pay for that when bitcoin inevitably drops and you wish you had sold at $1,000. Your logic reminds me a lot of all the people buying gold at $1,500 proclaiming it would be going to $5,000 in just a few years.

  
Do you believe Bitcoin has no utility?

  Far less utility than a dollar bill, unless you're into laundering drug money or trying to evade taxes. Do you hoard dollar bills?

Well then... Enjoy your insults, I'll enjoy my profits.

burgerwars said:   I think it's well assumed bitcoin won't become the next dollar, euro, Swiss franc, etc. It's not going to replace regular currencies at Starbucks. It's something else.

I'm not a bitcoin evangelist, but I know not to just ignore it. The value of something is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Apple or Facebook stock can end up being worth nothing, if nobody wants to buy it. The stock market, buying gold, saving your money in a mattress, or whatever, is a gamble. That's life.

I think someone who bought bitcoin at $1, and woke-up this morning seeing it's worth $1,000, is feeling pretty smart.  He/she didn't let the opinion of others stop them.

  The stock market is a gamble, but it's one that USUALLY pays off since the companies are creating something of actual value, and making a profit. If you invest in an S&P index fund, you can expect to make several percent a year, based on historical returns over the last hundred years.
That's very different from gambing in Vegas, where you can expect to lose money! This is what pays for all the fancy buildings in Vegas!
It's also very different from speculating in currencies, where you can expect to lose only a little bit of money (the conversion fees). Currencies don't create value. Neither does Bitcoin. So you expect breakeven.

Anyone who think's they're "smart" because their gamble paid off beyond the expected value is actually quite dumb. It's simply the nature of gambling that you sometimes make more of a return than the expected value, and sometimes less.
Would you really feel "smart" if you won $1000 in Vegas after betting $10 in Roulette? It's not your brain that brought in the money. It was pure chance. Same with Bitcoin.

If Bitcoin drops in value, should the person feel "dumb"?

cyiwin said:   Well then... Enjoy your insults, I'll enjoy my profits.
 Have fun.
I'll enjoy my profits from the stock market, where I can EXPECT, on average, to make money over the long run.
WIth Bitcoin, that expectation is zero, since it creates nothing of value (unless criminal activity can be deemed "valuable"). It's pure luck if you win or lose with Bitcoin.

I'm not going to argue about the value of bitcoin (I didn't invent it) but it's been around for something like seven years. That's a long time for a Ponzi scheme. As far as bitcoin having any real value, there is value in the Blockchain technology (and stuff associated with it).

Anyway, there are risks everywhere. There's risks crossing the street, but I do it. With bitcoin, there's plenty of risk, but I follow the trend. The trend may be wrong, but the trend can be your friend.

burgerwars said:   I'm not going to argue about the value of bitcoin (I didn't invent it) but it's been around for something like seven years. That's a long time for a Ponzi scheme. As far as bitcoin having any real value, there is value in the Blockchain technology (and stuff associated with it).

Anyway, there are risks everywhere. There's risks crossing the street, but I do it. With bitcoin, there's plenty of risk, but I follow the trend. The trend may be wrong, but the trend can be your friend.

  So you think Bitcoin brings better returns than the stock market? Even small cap stocks?
Why not invest the money in risky stocks instead? They bring plenty of return, on average.
What makes Bitcoin a better investment?

burgerwars said:   Any opinions on where it heads from here?
  
burgerwars said:   I'm not going to argue about the value of bitcoin
  
So then you aren't actually soliciting opinions on the value of bitcoin? Because any discussion that has suggested it may not always head up...you just dismiss. Are only bitcoin pumpers/believers welcome? Yet another classic "FWF, tell me what I want to hear" thread in the making?

I am not an expert in this area at all. This is a crazy run (seeing my tiny left over $15 increases to be 2x+ in few months). Some mentioned the flood-in money from Asia to hedge the currency exchange rate impact under various countries' foreign exchange regulations vs. $USD. And, I found more blockchain-like currency plays in virtualization of real physical assets (e.g., gold with some bitcoin like players) - this might be more reasonable. It might be also harder, for a sovereignty, to control this kind of fast valuation movement. Probably, after north Euro (Denmark, Sweden, Norway) cashless experiments, people might know better on this digital money era. Digital currency system is always under the hacking risks (few instances happened to bitcoin players already).

burgerwars said:   I think it's well assumed bitcoin won't become the next dollar, euro, Swiss franc, etc. It's not going to replace regular currencies at Starbucks. It's something else.

I'm not a bitcoin evangelist, but I know not to just ignore it. The value of something is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Apple or Facebook stock can end up being worth nothing, if nobody wants to buy it. The stock market, buying gold, saving your money in a mattress, or whatever, is a gamble. That's life.

I think someone who bought bitcoin at $1, and woke-up this morning seeing it's worth $1,000, is feeling pretty smart.  He/she didn't let the opinion of others stop them.

  
I think of Bitcoin as more of a prototype, proof of concept, crypto currency.  It is paving the way for a world currency that may not be easily manipulated by a less than majority group of players, but it isn't immune to manipulation. 

What probably gave bitcoin the most streed cred is the way the FBI handled the Silk Road seizures.  I don't remember where they are in the process, but the FBI took great care to get control of the wallet and not lose it.  They were going through the courts to liquidate the bitcoin and convert it to USD. 

I'm no pumper of bitcoin if you read my past thought on it, however, there are things going for it that makes it have staying power.

- It has became the default "currency" for certain transaction, including ransom-ware and other questionable activity.
- Bitcoin is the only crypto currency that is easily converted worldwide. This allows people to transfer $ out of some countries (eg, China) that places limits on asset transfer.
- Adoption from main-stream vendors, including Newegg.

For those reasons, I don't believe you can compare bitcoin to other speculation bubble like say, Beanie-Babies because it does serve a need.

magika said:   
burgerwars said:   I think it's well assumed bitcoin won't become the next dollar, euro, Swiss franc, etc. It's not going to replace regular currencies at Starbucks. It's something else.

I'm not a bitcoin evangelist, but I know not to just ignore it. The value of something is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. Apple or Facebook stock can end up being worth nothing, if nobody wants to buy it. The stock market, buying gold, saving your money in a mattress, or whatever, is a gamble. That's life.

I think someone who bought bitcoin at $1, and woke-up this morning seeing it's worth $1,000, is feeling pretty smart.  He/she didn't let the opinion of others stop them.

  
If you really believe this then you don't understand what investing is. People buy stock in Apple, Facebook, whatever because those companies make something. People invest with them because their cash has potential productive value. Investing in bitcoin is a lot like investing in gold - neither actually do anything. They are at best a store of value, but that value fluctuates wildly based on market forces beyond anyone's ability to predict. Thus you are just speculating - hoping if you put $1.00 in that there are enough other greater fools who will also put some money in, thus raising the value of your $1.00 speculation to $2.00. That works great until you run out of greater fools. When will that be? Who knows. Lets hope you aren't holding the bag when it happens (but you probably will be given your posts on this). 

You confuse luck with intelligence....and eventually you will pay for that when bitcoin inevitably drops and you wish you had sold at $1,000. Your logic reminds me a lot of all the people buying gold at $1,500 proclaiming it would be going to $5,000 in just a few years.

  what does facebook MAKE ? What does GOOGLE MAKE ???

Skipping 49 Messages...
China can just threaten to jail anyone who transfers bitcoin just like they tightly control yuan currency exchange. I would bet they do this in the next 18 months as currency outflows pose a risk to their economy.

That's not the main problem with bitcoin though... the lack of intrinsic value and rampant speculation is the big problem. The high volatility of the currency can cause fluctuations of 20% in a day which makes it impossible to do any real financial transactions. Imagine trying to buy a house in bitcoin.



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