Can you talk me out of buying this former rental van?

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I've been here for a while so I know there are some FWF members believe that one should never buy a former rental vehicle because the vehicle may have been abused by who knows what and the rental company may not have taken care of it properly (service wise) when it was in their fleet so I get that.  I was under the impression that they'd at least change the oil the regular intervals which is the most important thing for new vehicles anyway.

Came across a 2015 Sienna LE with 34k miles for about $19k listing price.  Clean car fax and it's sitting on the dealer's lot for the last 4 months.  KBB values around $21k-22k and I haven't come across 2015 Sienna's with <50k miles for under $20k on any of the car search websites or CL.   Are there reasons why I should not consider buying this?  The dealer said in the email that they're willing to talk because the end of the month is approaching (heard this millions of times).  Considering this is a mini van as opposed to a sports car, would it have been abused less? I know when I rent mini vans I just drive at normal speed because I have family with me.

What is consensus here?
 

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Because of the ass sweat?

atikovi (Jan. 30, 2017 @ 2:01p) |

Its pretty much the same thing, and the dealer specifically called it a Documentation fee.

RedWolfe01 (Jan. 31, 2017 @ 4:48a) |

It could be a great deal, or it could be a van in rough shape, its tough to tell from pictures.

For me, a Sienna LE is no... (more)

Chrisk327 (Jan. 31, 2017 @ 9:48a) |

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you like poopie diapers? People rent vans and change dirty diapers in there. It's a shitmobile!

Is it CP? I think it has 2k of warranty left?

Buy buy buy

...I rented a car today and drove it like it was stolen? Is that not good enough?

Tell you this much, when a business traveler gets a minivan rental instead of a decent sedan he's not extra nice to it

ach1199 said:   I've been here for a while so I know there are some FWF members believe that one should never buy a former rental vehicle because the vehicle may have been abused by who knows what and the rental company may not have taken care of it properly (service wise) when it was in their fleet so I get that.  I was under the impression that they'd at least change the oil the regular intervals which is the most important thing for new vehicles anyway.

Came across a 2015 Sienna LE with 34k miles for about $19k listing price.  Clean car fax and it's sitting on the dealer's lot for the last 4 months.  KBB values around $21k-22k and I haven't come across 2015 Sienna's with <50k miles for under $20k on any of the car search websites or CL.   Are there reasons why I should not consider buying this?  The dealer said in the email that they're willing to talk because the end of the month is approaching (heard this millions of times).  Considering this is a mini van as opposed to a sports car, would it have been abused less? I know when I rent mini vans I just drive at normal speed because I have family with me.

What is consensus here?
 

Sure I can convince you.  Don't do it.  Why? Because you can spend a few grand more and get one from CarMax that's been reconditioned and will be in better condition if you absolutely must have a Sienna.  They're reliable, but so are most minivans in that class.   They're basic FWD appliances and there's not much to go wrong unless you're talking older V6 Hondas. 

If you just want a van as a consumable family mover that you and your kids plan on trashing for the next decade, there are better options than a Sienna.  You can buy a Dodge Caravan for less money with the 3.6L. 

What do you plan on doing with the van?

This would be a cash deal. I currently have a 2001 Sienna that bought in 2005 and has 175k miles on it so I know they're reliable. Regardless of buying from a PP or a dealer, I'm planning to have a through detail job done on my own dime anyway.

This would be wifey's car as she's currently drives a Sienna and comfortable driving it.

Has anyone here ever bought a previous rental car and had problems with it?

My father bought a rental car many years ago and it was a perfectly good car that served us well for many years. It showed no signs of neglect or abuse.

I have bought 2 cars, 1 minivan, and 1 full size van that were all rentals over the past 12 years. All were great vehicles. I still run 2 of them. Saved me tons of money. The Sienna is a reliable workhorse. Go for it.

ach1199 said:   This would be a cash deal. I currently have a 2001 Sienna that bought in 2005 and has 175k miles on it so I know they're reliable. Regardless of buying from a PP or a dealer, I'm planning to have a through detail job done on my own dime anyway.

This would be wifey's car as she's currently drives a Sienna and comfortable driving it.

  
That changes things a bit.  Sounds like this van will be a daily driver that will eventually be driven into the ground.  I still say a CarMax Sienna would be a better buy if you have one in your area, thus avoiding the transfer fee.  If not, buy the $19k Sienna LE. 

We are currently driving a rental mini-van with no problems. I wouldn't be concerned it was a rental.

RailroadTrack said:   ach1199 said:   This would be a cash deal. I currently have a 2001 Sienna that bought in 2005 and has 175k miles on it so I know they're reliable. Regardless of buying from a PP or a dealer, I'm planning to have a through detail job done on my own dime anyway.

This would be wifey's car as she's currently drives a Sienna and comfortable driving it.

  
That changes things a bit.  Sounds like this van will be a daily driver that will eventually be driven into the ground.  I still say a CarMax Sienna would be a better buy if you have one in your area, thus avoiding the transfer fee.  If not, buy the $19k Sienna LE. 


This is from a regular but non-Toyota dealer about 5 hr drive from me so I would take a drive there and check it out first. If I like it and does not let the family emotionally attached to it at the first sight, would and offer of $18k appropriate?

ach1199 said:   
RailroadTrack said:   
ach1199 said:   This would be a cash deal. I currently have a 2001 Sienna that bought in 2005 and has 175k miles on it so I know they're reliable. Regardless of buying from a PP or a dealer, I'm planning to have a through detail job done on my own dime anyway.

This would be wifey's car as she's currently drives a Sienna and comfortable driving it.

  
That changes things a bit.  Sounds like this van will be a daily driver that will eventually be driven into the ground.  I still say a CarMax Sienna would be a better buy if you have one in your area, thus avoiding the transfer fee.  If not, buy the $19k Sienna LE. 


This is from a regular but non-Toyota dealer about 5 hr drive from me so I would take a drive there and check it out first. If I like it and does not let the family emotionally attached to it at the first sight, would and offer of $18k appropriate?
 


$18k is a great price and if you can get them to bite, that'd be worth the 5 hour drive.

I say go for it. Any used car can be abused but most minivan are driven by families for long trips. I really wouldn't worry about it anymore than any other used car.

jerosen said:   Has anyone here ever bought a previous rental car and had problems with it?

My father bought a rental car many years ago and it was a perfectly good car that served us well for many years. It showed no signs of neglect or abuse.

  
No, my current SUV is a former rental.  No issues 5 years later.
 

RailroadTrack said:   
ach1199 said:   
RailroadTrack said:   
ach1199 said:   This would be a cash deal. I currently have a 2001 Sienna that bought in 2005 and has 175k miles on it so I know they're reliable. Regardless of buying from a PP or a dealer, I'm planning to have a through detail job done on my own dime anyway.

This would be wifey's car as she's currently drives a Sienna and comfortable driving it.

  
That changes things a bit.  Sounds like this van will be a daily driver that will eventually be driven into the ground.  I still say a CarMax Sienna would be a better buy if you have one in your area, thus avoiding the transfer fee.  If not, buy the $19k Sienna LE. 


This is from a regular but non-Toyota dealer about 5 hr drive from me so I would take a drive there and check it out first. If I like it and does not let the family emotionally attached to it at the first sight, would and offer of $18k appropriate?


$18k is a great price and if you can get them to bite, that'd be worth the 5 hour drive.

  

Negotiate the price before you drive 5 hours though, not after you spend gas+time to get there, that would be incredibly stupid

juliox said:   
RailroadTrack said:   
ach1199 said:   
RailroadTrack said:   
ach1199 said:   This would be a cash deal. I currently have a 2001 Sienna that bought in 2005 and has 175k miles on it so I know they're reliable. Regardless of buying from a PP or a dealer, I'm planning to have a through detail job done on my own dime anyway.

This would be wifey's car as she's currently drives a Sienna and comfortable driving it.

  
That changes things a bit.  Sounds like this van will be a daily driver that will eventually be driven into the ground.  I still say a CarMax Sienna would be a better buy if you have one in your area, thus avoiding the transfer fee.  If not, buy the $19k Sienna LE. 


This is from a regular but non-Toyota dealer about 5 hr drive from me so I would take a drive there and check it out first. If I like it and does not let the family emotionally attached to it at the first sight, would and offer of $18k appropriate?


$18k is a great price and if you can get them to bite, that'd be worth the 5 hour drive.

  

Negotiate the price before you drive 5 hours though, not after you spend gas+time to get there, that would be incredibly stupid

That should be an implied task, but is worth mentioning.  He could drive 5 hours and the car not even be there so yes, he should definitely call first

I'm thinking differently. The thing that rings with me & it's really loud. Is this has sat on the lot for 4 months. I wouldn't bring the family to see it. I'd have a couple cashiers checks with me to incrementally up my offer. Then I'd call the contact at the dealership & say (lie) I'm going to be close a couple hours away doing whatever. I want to drop by.

I don't know if the 19k is otd or not. Turn the price discussion in otd prices so there's no last minute adding machine mumbo jumbo. Tell them you have A cashiers check. It's made out to the dealership, so let them hold on to it. It makes it harder for them to say no. KNOW your bottom line price (BLP). Be prepared to sit & wait. They want that car OFF the lot. Your check should be 1-2.5k off BLP. Bring a book or whatever to fill your time & not look anxious. They say no, talk to the top guy. Tell them you'll give them time to think about it. Say you can comfortably drive your current car for a couple more years. Say maybe they need to call the dealership owner. Sit down & read. After an ~hour ask them again. Arrive early enough in the day so they can check on your check. The next increment & time wait is up to you. When you've hit your max walk.

Just check Vin# is same on all doors. Otherwise we know the discount is for accident.
Did u check enterprise car sales? they do carry mini-vans.

I always felt the rental vehicles are well maintained. Their business depends on it.

zapjb said:   I'm thinking differently. The thing that rings with me & it's really loud. Is this has sat on the lot for 4 months. I wouldn't bring the family to see it. I'd have a couple cashiers checks with me to incrementally up my offer. Then I'd call the contact at the dealership & say (lie) I'm going to be close a couple hours away doing whatever. I want to drop by.

I don't know if the 19k is otd or not. Turn the price discussion in otd prices so there's no last minute adding machine mumbo jumbo. Tell them you have A cashiers check. It's made out to the dealership, so let them hold on to it. It makes it harder for them to say no. KNOW your bottom line price (BLP). Be prepared to sit & wait. They want that car OFF the lot. Your check should be 1-2.5k off BLP. Bring a book or whatever to fill your time & not look anxious. They say no, talk to the top guy. Tell them you'll give them time to think about it. Say you can comfortably drive your current car for a couple more years. Say maybe they need to call the dealership owner. Sit down & read. After an ~hour ask them again. Arrive early enough in the day so they can check on your check. The next increment & time wait is up to you. When you've hit your max walk.


Yes, so great idea on couple of cashier's check made out to them. The dealer is about an hour or so away from a family member's house anyway and I am planning to stay at their house overnight so my family won't be tired and anxious to get back home. The $19k is the listed price plus the usual tax, title, plates, registration etc. I asked them how much is their doc fee is but waiting for a response on that. I'd be OK as long as it's $300-$400 range. Will try to bring it down too if I can.

javaman2003 said:   Just check Vin# is same on all doors. Otherwise we know the discount is for accident.
Did u check enterprise car sales? they do carry mini-vans.

I always felt the rental vehicles are well maintained. Their business depends on it.


Enterprise has a few 2016 Sienna's LE in Orlando area for low $20's.

It might be concerning it's a former rental but not on the rental company's lot. Most of the major rental companies have their own used car operations. Did somebody else already buy it off the rental company lot and learn it was built on an Indian burial ground?

Also check recall status for the VIN and whether the recalls are parts supportable.

My old office overlooked the perimeter road on a tech campus large enough to have an onsite Hertz office. The perimeter road was long and private property. The Hertz delivery drivers would hit obscene speed on that road. Did I mention the brutal speed bumps? They just hammered over them. As did I in the Hertz cars when I used them. If you're going fast enough you barely notice the speed bumps, but it must be hell on the suspension/control arms/suspension mountings.

Read PJ O'Rourke's How to Drive Fast on Drugs While Getting Your Wing-Wang Squeezed and Not Spill Your Drink.

I wouldn't buy an ex-rental.

IMBoring25 said:   It might be concerning it's a former rental but not on the rental company's lot. Most of the major rental companies have their own used car operations. Did somebody else already buy it off the rental company lot and learn it was built on an Indian burial ground?

Also check recall status for the VIN and whether the recalls are parts supportable.


Apparently this dealer bought it directly from the rental co according to the history I saw so I'm going to find how and why it ended up in this dealer's lot? What's this "Indian burial ground' reference is about?

It was basically obligatory in '80s horror movies for haunted houses to have "been built on Indian burial grounds." It was a colorful way to say things keep going wrong with it/it's a lemon...

javaman2003 said:   Just check Vin# is same on all doors. Otherwise we know the discount is for accident.
Did u check enterprise car sales? they do carry mini-vans.

I always felt the rental vehicles are well maintained. Their business depends on it.

  Their fleets are usually fairly new vehicles that haven't reached key maintenance milestones.

wait a few days most car dealers mark down their cars around the first of the month, but that can vary by dealer. Don't know how much vans go down but it used to be most cars go down about 30% per year or little under 3% per month but the Sienna is probably about 2% per month. How would you like to own a business that your assets drop 2-3% each month.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/how-fast-does-my-new-car-lose...

Just think of all the bang bus episodes they did in the van.

Last car I rented had an extra.... A crack pipe in the console. Who cleaned it anyway. It was an Escape, not a van.

tightpapa said:   wait a few days most car dealers mark down their cars around the first of the month, but that can vary by dealer. Don't know how much vans go down but it used to be most cars go down about 30% per year or little under 3% per month but the Sienna is probably about 2% per month. How would you like to own a business that your assets drop 2-3% each month.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/how-fast-does-my-new-car-lose...


I always thought that the dealers were eager to close the sale in the last days of the month so that they can get a credit for that month?

Truth is they're always eager to close the sale. They'll tell you they need to sell by the end of he month and then if that passes tell you the 1st is when new incentives come out....

ach1199 said:   
 

This is from a regular but non-Toyota dealer about 5 hr drive from me so I would take a drive there and check it out first. If I like it and does not let the family emotionally attached to it at the first sight, would and offer of $18k appropriate?

  What da?  5 hour drive to buy a Minivan?  A non toyota dealer?  This sounds like a scam dealer who will either bait and switch you or show you a car with obvious damage that has been fixed and since you came '5 hours' you will buy it anyhow.

ach1199 said:   
tightpapa said:   wait a few days most car dealers mark down their cars around the first of the month, but that can vary by dealer. Don't know how much vans go down but it used to be most cars go down about 30% per year or little under 3% per month but the Sienna is probably about 2% per month. How would you like to own a business that your assets drop 2-3% each month.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/how-fast-does-my-new-car-lose-value-infographic.html


I always thought that the dealers were eager to close the sale in the last days of the month so that they can get a credit for that month?

 A new Kelly blue book is printed each month (with lower prices) - most dealers set this in effect the first of the month. Some dealers I have worked with wait a few days after the first of the month but most change prices right on the first of the month.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelley_Blue_Book
One of my first life experiences after I learned this was: ---- close to the end of the month I found a Mustang I had to have, they had it priced in line with the KBB but I knew in less than a week the price would go down about 3% - so after some discussion I offered them next months price but they would not budge and I walked. Didn't end up buying anything, but just for curiosity -  I called the first of the month and new price was slightly lower than what I offered them.
Tools (such as KBB) have changed over the years but when I bought a car 2 years ago the principal and process was the same

forbin4040 said:   ach1199 said:   
 

This is from a regular but non-Toyota dealer about 5 hr drive from me so I would take a drive there and check it out first. If I like it and does not let the family emotionally attached to it at the first sight, would and offer of $18k appropriate?

  What da?  5 hour drive to buy a Minivan?  A non toyota dealer?  This sounds like a scam dealer who will either bait and switch you or show you a car with obvious damage that has been fixed and since you came '5 hours' you will buy it anyhow.


They'd only know that I drove 5 hrs if I tell them that first. I have a relative about an hour away from the dealership that I'm planning to overnight with anyway. This is a large GM dealer, not a ma and pa shop so don't expect any Hanky Panky about salvage/rebuilt title but I would like to know how that rental van ended up in their lot with only the one previous owner (rental co) on the Carfax.

My last two cars have been from Enterprise, absolutely no problems with either of them. They maintain their cars well and usually turn them over after 30k miles & come with the balance of their warranty. Prices are on the low end of KBB wholesale price so they do not negotiate. What you see is what you pay. Check them out & compare comparable cars to get the best deal for you.

ate Posted: Jan/27/2017 9:33 PM
Posted By: speedracer714
Rank: Cranky Member"Just think of all the bang bus episodes they did in the van."

I'm always hoping to meet the stars of these episodes.....perhaps I'd recognize their......faces/or even their smells???

ach1199 said:   
forbin4040 said:   
ach1199 said:   
 

This is from a regular but non-Toyota dealer about 5 hr drive from me so I would take a drive there and check it out first. If I like it and does not let the family emotionally attached to it at the first sight, would and offer of $18k appropriate?

  What da?  5 hour drive to buy a Minivan?  A non toyota dealer?  This sounds like a scam dealer who will either bait and switch you or show you a car with obvious damage that has been fixed and since you came '5 hours' you will buy it anyhow.


They'd only know that I drove 5 hrs if I tell them that first. I have a relative about an hour away from the dealership that I'm planning to overnight with anyway. This is a large GM dealer, not a ma and pa shop so don't expect any Hanky Panky about salvage/rebuilt title but I would like to know how that rental van ended up in their lot with only the one previous owner (rental co) on the Carfax.

  I don't know if you are aware of this but rental car companies VERY often fix their cars in house.. Meaning that Karfox and OttoSheck won't know about it.. And you might not at first too. But, I promise it's only a matter of time before you become aware.

Have you ever done a J-turn in a Sienna? If not, rent one and practice a few dozen times.

Have you ever went off-roading in a Sienna? If not, rent one and and try it.

Have you ever ramped over a 30 foot wide gorge in a Sienna. If not, rent one and do it.

Now, after having fun doing all that, never think about buying a former rental Sienna again.

Skipping 13 Messages...
It could be a great deal, or it could be a van in rough shape, its tough to tell from pictures.

For me, a Sienna LE is not special, there should be plenty of them around and a lot with rental history, go negotiate one of those that doesn't involve 10 hrs round trip.

I wanted to buy a former rental Sienna LE at one point. This was back in 2012 when we were minivan shopping and I saw a few 2011 Sienna LEs on a Toyota dealer lot. Definitely former rentals, the no smoking stickers were still in them. I would ve bought it too, except my wife really wanted the Odyssey, so we got an Odyssey. Couldn't find a good used one of those in the new body style at a reasonable price, so we bought a discounted new one. However, there were a bunch of the Sienna LEs around as they were in rental fleets, the honda's werent.

I wouldn't be too discouraged buying a rental, but check it out yourself. They can have much harder lives, or be just fine. I'd probably be less worried about the mechanics than buying a Mustang GT from a rental agency, however expecting more wear and tear on the interior due to kids and non caring adults.

I also disagree with the comment that the dodge caravan is just as good.  I've known multiple people with them that had many issues.  Nevermind the actual reliability studies and resale value.  



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