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So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.

My question is will filing a hail damage claim on my current home cause higher rates for me on my next home? Thanks for your help.

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hmm is that policy/state dependent. I'm sure we've had a hailstorm here in PHX within the past 2 years. And we might hav... (more)

needhelpplease (Feb. 09, 2017 @ 9:56p) |

Terrible idea. When selling the house, homeowner has to disclose any known issues. OP definitely knows the roof has dama... (more)

Shandril (Feb. 21, 2017 @ 10:56a) |

This is going to be sketchy. If it was a home inspector or an insurance adjuster that said there was a hail damage it ma... (more)

Veeekay (Feb. 22, 2017 @ 5:23a) |

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Depends on your insurance company. Usually no.

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was there a particular event that caused the damage you would be claiming?   

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Yes. We had a hail storm about 5 months ago.

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hvburns said:   Yes. We had a hail storm about 5 months ago.
  5 months ago is quite a while ago...is that normal to make a claim that late? surprised no storm chasers knocked on your door.

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forbin4040 said:   Depends on your insurance company. Usually no.
  Amica told me that legally (don't know if this varies by state? or if it's really true...) they can't consider wind/hail damage in the individual rate, it's spread equally across the pool of all insured in the area.   Unlike claims with the other part of HO insurance.
I thus went with a lower Wind/Hail deductible than the normal policy (1%/2% if I remember correctly), as the roof was just replaced three days before my offer to purchase was made.  I would expect there to be wind or hail damage in the future before the years-rating on the roof material based on location.

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I was told by both roofers that you could file a claim within 2 years of a storm. Honestly, it didn't cross my mind to have someone look at if after the storm because I hadn't considered the possibility of filing a cla on my roof.

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I didn't think we had damage from the little (most were nickel size but some were quarter) hail storm we had in the Spring. So I didn't contact my insurance, then both neighbors were getting new roofs. Called and agent told me to have a roofer come out and look before we send an adjuster because if the adjuster is sent then it will still count as a claim or something even if there is no damage. She also said that the hail/wind event had to be categorized as a total loss event (or something like that) for it to not raise my rates or go against my rating. She told me the dates of the most recent storms and said use the closest one that you think the damage happened when you call the claims number.

The adjuster found a lot more damage than just the roof too, stain on my deck, window screens, paint chips on siding, dented garage doors and of course the roof. I think it was about 6 months after the storm by the time I contacted the insurance to file the claim.

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Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.

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atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.

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Bend3r said:   (don't know if this varies by state? or if it's really true...)
 

  
From experience I can verify that it is true (though I'm not sure if it's law or simply custom). This is because natural disaster risks are priced into the premium by region, they don't vary by person.

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doveroftke said:   
Bend3r said:   (don't know if this varies by state? or if it's really true...)
  
From experience I can verify that it is true (though I'm not sure if it's law or simply custom). This is because natural disaster risks are priced into the premium by region, they don't vary by person.

  
As they rightly shouldn't. Unlike choosing your car model, car color, how many accidents you caused, etc... These are not choices in life. You can't prevent or choose if hail damages your roof or not.

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hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.

My question is will filing a hail damage claim on my current home cause higher rates for me on my next home? Thanks for your help.



It should have no impact upon your rates for your new home. If it does, switch insurers.

I have had two hail damaged roofs replaced (same storm, different properties), both paid for by insurance . Never noticed an issue with future rates.

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sharpie130 said:   atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.



Not to mention....helps the sale considerably to advertise a brand new roof.

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sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.

1) Yes.
2) Some buyers, in order to get a better deal sometimes will waive the inspection.
3) Most inspectors don't bother to climb on roofs so unless it's visibly significantly deteriorated, they will just make a boilerplate remark such as, roof appears sound but of unknown age, reccomend evaluation by roofer. 
4) Better for seller to give money off sale price if buyer notices it needs a roof since hidden problems could increase repair costs significantly once the old roof is torn off.

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atikovi said:   sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.

1) Yes.
2) Some buyers, in order to get a better deal sometimes will waive the inspection.
3) Most inspectors don't bother to climb on roofs so unless it's visibly significantly deteriorated, they will just make a boilerplate remark such as, roof appears sound but of unknown age, reccomend evaluation by roofer. 
4) Better for seller to give money off sale price if buyer notices it needs a roof since hidden problems could increase repair costs significantly once the old roof is torn off.


I've bought/sold/been party to about 30 home sales. I can't recall one where the inspector didn't get on the roof.

Just had one in Dec where inspector found hail damage, ended up getting $5k off purchase price.

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If I remember the last time I used an inspector, it's a liability thing for them to not get on a roof. If they step on and damage a shingle, the seller can sue them if it causes a leak the next rain.

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atikovi said:   
sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.

1) Yes.
2) Some buyers, in order to get a better deal sometimes will waive the inspection.
3) Most inspectors don't bother to climb on roofs so unless it's visibly significantly deteriorated, they will just make a boilerplate remark such as, roof appears sound but of unknown age, reccomend evaluation by roofer. 
4) Better for seller to give money off sale price if buyer notices it needs a roof since hidden problems could increase repair costs significantly once the old roof is torn off.

  I am an investor and a real estate agent and that is wrong on so many levels. waive inspection? unless it is an investment, I have never seen that before. if the inspector doesn't get on the roof....the wrong inspector was hired. Unless it is a critical weather/safety issue, inspectors will go on the roof.  This is in Illinois.

If the shingle is damaged just by stepping on it, the roof is about to go or the shingle is junk. 

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Also I believe the sellers disclosure would require OP to disclose it as they are aware of the damage and the need to get a new roof.

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Wow there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. If your inspector won't or doesn't get on the roof, fire him immediately and get a new one. Insurance claims (in my state) follow the house, not the insured. So if you are selling the house, don't worry about the claim, it won't follow you anyways. I would never, ever buy a house without getting the roof inspected and replaced (or price lowered by equal amount). Unless the house is a foreclosure or in really bad shape, the roof problems WILL be a part of the negotiations, so you might as well take care of it now and advertise it with a new roof.

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sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   
sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.

1) Yes.
2) Some buyers, in order to get a better deal sometimes will waive the inspection.
3) Most inspectors don't bother to climb on roofs so unless it's visibly significantly deteriorated, they will just make a boilerplate remark such as, roof appears sound but of unknown age, reccomend evaluation by roofer. 
4) Better for seller to give money off sale price if buyer notices it needs a roof since hidden problems could increase repair costs significantly once the old roof is torn off.

  I have never seen that before. if the inspector doesn't get on the roof....the wrong inspector was hired. 

http://www.mcgarryandmadsen.com/inspection/Blog/Entries/2014/7/2...
"The Standards of Practice of the home inspector association we belong to, InterNACHI (International Association of Certified Home Inspectors), do not require that the inspector actually walk on the roof. “The inspector shall inspect from ground level or the eaves” is the way it is stated. Also, the standards note that “the inspector is not required to walk on any roof surface.” Other associations, such as ASHI (American Society of Home Inspectors) and NAHI (National Association of Home Inspectors), have essentially the same standard."

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justignoredem said:   
doveroftke said:   
Bend3r said:   (don't know if this varies by state? or if it's really true...)
  
From experience I can verify that it is true (though I'm not sure if it's law or simply custom). This is because natural disaster risks are priced into the premium by region, they don't vary by person.

  
As they rightly shouldn't. Unlike choosing your car model, car color, how many accidents you caused, etc... These are not choices in life. You can't prevent or choose if hail damages your roof or not.

  Insurance premium increases are not intended to punish policyholders for anything. Instead, they are designed to reflect increased actuarial risks, as in many cases the occurrence of certain types of claims makes the policyholders more likely to file additional insurance claims.

Hence, the reason that this is going to vary widely. Some insurance companies in some states do not surcharge for weather related roof claims, as their overall premiums already factor in the likelihood of those types of claims in the area. Other companies, however, look at it differently. Certain houses are just more susceptible to roof damage, as certain roof pitches, for instance, make hail damage more likely, but is not something that is reflected in up front individual underwriting.

By the way, if you're replacing your roof and are getting price quotes, ask for a price quote on a class 4 roof, which is going to be hail resistant. Many/most insurance companies provide additional discounts for class 4 roofs and, depending on the size of the discount, the upgrade may quickly pay for itself, not to mention that it greatly reduces the likelihood of having to make another hail claim and to pay the deductible, end up with another CLUE claim, etc... Other types of roofs, such as metal roofs, also tend to qualify for discounts, but with metal roofs the insurance carrier may ask you to sign a cosmetic damage waiver. This is done because hail may create visible but purely cosmetic damage in metal roofs.

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hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your roof is already old, some insurance companies won't pay for all the cost, after the deductible to replace it. If it's already a 20 year old roof and the normal life of a roof in your area is 25 years, your roof only has 20% of it's life left before the hail damage. You may only get a check for $10,500-$5,000 deductable x 20% or about $1000.

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atikovi said:   
sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.

1) Yes.
2) Some buyers, in order to get a better deal sometimes will waive the inspection.
3) Most inspectors don't bother to climb on roofs so unless it's visibly significantly deteriorated, they will just make a boilerplate remark such as, roof appears sound but of unknown age, reccomend evaluation by roofer. 
4) Better for seller to give money off sale price if buyer notices it needs a roof since hidden problems could increase repair costs significantly once the old roof is torn off.
 

  Presumably it's in bad shape, since he was getting it done before selling.  The roofer gave him the idea of letting his insurance pay to get the house ready for sale, by calling it hail damage instead of routine maintenance.  OP is only concerned if the claim will affect him going forward, since he will no longer own the house. 

I'm not sure how discounting the sale price is better than having the insurance pay for a new roof?

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atikovi said:   hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your roof is already old, some insurance companies won't pay for all the cost, after the deductible to replace it. If it's already a 20 year old roof and the normal life of a roof in your area is 25 years, your roof only has 20% of it's life left before the hail damage. You may only get a check for $10,500-$5,000 deductable x 20% or about $1000.


This is incorrect. Assuming you have a replacment value coverage.

If you just wanted a check....yes they will calculate depreciation when they cut you a check, and deduct it. If you actually get the work done and roof replaced, they will pay for all of it (minus deductible).

I have had two done....both were roofs that were 20+ years old. I only paid deductible. (Allstate and State Farm). Almost all home owners have replacement value coverage.

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atikovi said:   
hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your roof is already old, some insurance companies won't pay for all the cost, after the deductible to replace it. If it's already a 20 year old roof and the normal life of a roof in your area is 25 years, your roof only has 20% of it's life left before the hail damage. You may only get a check for $10,500-$5,000 deductable x 20% or about $1000.

  More like 20% of $10k, or a $2,000 loss, which would be below your $5k deductible and result in no payment.

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atikovi said:   
hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your roof is already old, some insurance companies won't pay for all the cost, after the deductible to replace it. If it's already a 20 year old roof and the normal life of a roof in your area is 25 years, your roof only has 20% of it's life left before the hail damage. You may only get a check for $10,500-$5,000 deductable x 20% or about $1000.

This depends on the type of policy that you have. It is true that some insurance companies in certain states have started covering asphalt roofs of a certain age at ACV (actual cash value) instead of their replacement cost. This is something that people need to explore at the time that they're purchasing their policies and at each renewal. Personally, for instance, I refuse to even obtain quotes from insurance carriers that engage in these tactics, as, at least in my state, there are still quite a few companies that won't do this.

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rascott said:   
atikovi said:   
hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your roof is already old, some insurance companies won't pay for all the cost, after the deductible to replace it. If it's already a 20 year old roof and the normal life of a roof in your area is 25 years, your roof only has 20% of it's life left before the hail damage. You may only get a check for $10,500-$5,000 deductable x 20% or about $1000.


This is incorrect. Assuming you have a replacment value coverage.

If you just wanted a check....yes they will calculate depreciation when they cut you a check, and deduct it. If you actually get the work done and roof replaced, they will pay for all of it (minus deductible).

I have had two done....both were roofs that were 20+ years old. I only paid deductible. (Allstate and State Farm).

  I just got a new policy with Esurance and they had a guy look at the roof to estimate it's age, and it's referenced in the policy as to what percent they pay depending on the age of the roof if it has to be repaired or replaced.

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I have had two done....both were roofs that were 20+ years old. I only paid deductible. (Allstate and State Farm). Almost all home owners have replacement value coverage.
  We (along with half of our county) got our 20+ roof replaced after a huge hail storm 5 years ago.  We found a roofer who agreed to do it for the replacement amount from the insurance only saving us the $500 deductible.   Within a year or two of the event, a lot of the insurers switched their policies to cover ACV and raise rates for the whole area across the board.  I found that our when I was trying to see if I was being ripped off by my insurer after our large rate increase.  Even if they did raise my rate specifically because the roof, I would have gladly paid $90-110 more a year for insurance to cover the $6,000 they paid for the roof (yes, ignoring the fact I paid about $4,000 in premiums up to that point).  

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1) You should be looking at your insurance policy as to deadlines for making a claim, not relying on word of roofer.
2) Make claim, assuming you can, pocket the $5k post deductible.
3) Sell house (disclose damage honestly if asked or required by statute), and if buyer makes an issue of it, offer them $5k-$10k discount.
4) Wash your hands of it.

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hairybeast said:   I have had two done....both were roofs that were 20+ years old. I only paid deductible. (Allstate and State Farm). Almost all home owners have replacement value coverage.
  We (along with half of our county) got our 20+ roof replaced after a huge hail storm 5 years ago.  We found a roofer who agreed to do it for the replacement amount from the insurance only saving us the $500 deductible.   Within a year or two of the event, a lot of the insurers switched their policies to cover ACV and raise rates for the whole area across the board.  I found that our when I was trying to see if I was being ripped off by my insurer after our large rate increase.  Even if they did raise my rate specifically because the roof, I would have gladly paid $90-110 more a year for insurance to cover the $6,000 they paid for the roof (yes, ignoring the fact I paid about $4,000 in premiums up to that point).  

So they submitted a false higher bill to your insurance and you committed insurance fraud? Or did your insurance just cut you that check without being sent an estimate from the roofer or was aware of the actual amount paid (not fraud)?

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Evilmagus said:   1) 2) Make claim, assuming you can, pocket the $5k post deductible.
Even if you have replacement cost coverage on the roof, many/most insurance companies out there only cut you a check for ACV and then, when you provide evidence that you've replaced the roof, cut you another check for the difference between replacement cost and ACV. If the OP's insurance company follows the same procedure (it'll say this in the policy), the ACV is likely to be below his deductible, so he'd end up with a claim on his CLUE report and no payout.
rascott said:   
atikovi said:   
hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your roof is already old, some insurance companies won't pay for all the cost, after the deductible to replace it. If it's already a 20 year old roof and the normal life of a roof in your area is 25 years, your roof only has 20% of it's life left before the hail damage. You may only get a check for $10,500-$5,000 deductable x 20% or about $1000.


This is incorrect. Assuming you have a replacment value coverage.

If you just wanted a check....yes they will calculate depreciation when they cut you a check, and deduct it. If you actually get the work done and roof replaced, they will pay for all of it (minus deductible).

I have had two done....both were roofs that were 20+ years old. I only paid deductible. (Allstate and State Farm). Almost all home owners have replacement value coverage.

You're both correct. In a lot of states, particularly those where roof damage claims are common, more and more companies are starting to issue replacement cost coverage policies with ACV only coverage on the roof (particularly if the roof is older than X number of years). So, it just depends on the particulars of each policy, but this is always one of the questions that I ask when I obtain HO quotes.

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Is that the house I was looking to buy?
You better put the right color on it. And I want 40 year shingles!

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atikovi said:   
sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   
sharpie130 said:   
atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
  ehhh. home inspection would notice unless it is winter and they can't get up there or covered in snow.

1) Yes.
2) Some buyers, in order to get a better deal sometimes will waive the inspection.
3) Most inspectors don't bother to climb on roofs so unless it's visibly significantly deteriorated, they will just make a boilerplate remark such as, roof appears sound but of unknown age, reccomend evaluation by roofer. 
4) Better for seller to give money off sale price if buyer notices it needs a roof since hidden problems could increase repair costs significantly once the old roof is torn off.

  I have never seen that before. if the inspector doesn't get on the roof....the wrong inspector was hired. 

http://www.mcgarryandmadsen.com/inspection/Blog/Entries/2014/7/2... 
"The Standards of Practice of the home inspector association we belong to, InterNACHI (International Association of Certified Home Inspectors), do not require that the inspector actually walk on the roof. “The inspector shall inspect from ground level or the eaves” is the way it is stated. Also, the standards note that “the inspector is not required to walk on any roof surface.” Other associations, such as ASHI (American Society of Home Inspectors) and NAHI (National Association of Home Inspectors), have essentially the same standard."

  InterNACHI requires the bare minimum in order to get more membership fees from inspectors.  If your inspector won't get on the roof, get another inspector.  More important for 2+ story homes since the roof is visible from the ground for one story homes.

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atikovi said:   
hvburns said:   So it's time to get a new roof on my house, and I'm about to try to sell my home. I called a couple of reputable roofers for quotes. Both suggested I file a homeowners insurance claim due to significant hail damage. I have a high deductible ($5,000) and I have never filed a claim before. The cheaper of the two quotes is $10,500.
Another thing to keep in mind is if your roof is already old, some insurance companies won't pay for all the cost, after the deductible to replace it. If it's already a 20 year old roof and the normal life of a roof in your area is 25 years, your roof only has 20% of it's life left before the hail damage. You may only get a check for $10,500-$5,000 deductable x 20% or about $1000.

  That's why you need replacement cost riders throughout the policy.

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Buyers inspector found hail damage causing the first offer to fall through. Made an insurance claim for hail damage, replaced with dimensional shingles which made the house look better than ever resulting in another offer and sale. No impact on next homes insurance.

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Bend3r said:   
 
So they submitted a false higher bill to your insurance and you committed insurance fraud? Or did your insurance just cut you that check without being sent an estimate from the roofer (not fraud)?

I think everything was based on the amount decided by the adjuster along with the preferred network roofer.  From what I recall, we were given about half to start the work and got the other half once we sent in proof of completion (documentation by roofer) and proof of payment (our cancelled check for the actual amount of the work).  The reimbursement check had to be signed by our lender, the roofer, and us before it could be cashed.  I don't remember submitting any invoices or anything like that.  Hope I didn't commit fraud, thought I was just shopping for a good deal. 

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hvburns said:   I was told by both roofers that you could file a claim within 2 years of a storm.
  
hmm is that policy/state dependent. I'm sure we've had a hailstorm here in PHX within the past 2 years. And we might have a leak..

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atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
Terrible idea. When selling the house, homeowner has to disclose any known issues. OP definitely knows the roof has damage so OP could be liable for it, even if found after the sale. Plus roof is a big part of most home inspections, so if there's real damage, inspector will find it easily. OP having not disclosed it, buyers may wonder what other things were not disclosed and either affect their offers or make them back out of the sale altogether. Even if it doesn't affect their offers, it'll be something on their list of remedies so OP will have to have it repaired. Might as well get insurance to pay for at least part of it.

We had hail damage about 10 years ago, about 6 months after purchasing a house and insurer did not raise our rate for it. I guess it makes sense that having a hail damage claim is not really anything an individual homeowner can do about.

Skipping 1 Messages...
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Tiggerlgh said:   Also I believe the sellers disclosure would require OP to disclose it as they are aware of the damage and the need to get a new roof.
Shandril said:   
atikovi said:   Why not just sell the house as is and discount the price a little? Unless it's visually deteriorated, most buyers won't notice.
Terrible idea. When selling the house, homeowner has to disclose any known issues. OP definitely knows the roof has damage so OP could be liable for it, even if found after the sale. Plus roof is a big part of most home inspections, so if there's real damage, inspector will find it easily. OP having not disclosed it, buyers may wonder what other things were not disclosed and either affect their offers or make them back out of the sale altogether. Even if it doesn't affect their offers, it'll be something on their list of remedies so OP will have to have it repaired. Might as well get insurance to pay for at least part of it.

We had hail damage about 10 years ago, about 6 months after purchasing a house and insurer did not raise our rate for it. I guess it makes sense that having a hail damage claim is not really anything an individual homeowner can do about.

  
This is going to be sketchy. If it was a home inspector or an insurance adjuster that said there was a hail damage it may warrant disclosure. But a roofer saying it, why would the OP do that. Is the roofer an expert or certified to make that statement? How is that any different than his neighbor/buyer's agent telling him that he sees hail damage. In that case would OP disclose it in the seller's disclosure as a damaged roof?

There had been situations where the roofer claimed that there was hail damage and the insurance adjuster had not agreed with the roofer.

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