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Vesting RSUs and starting new job

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My brother currently works for a job and has about 40k worth of rsus that will vest on March 31st.  He got a job offer that wants him to start on April 3rd but since he has been at the company 10+ years, wants to at least give them the courtesy of 2 week notice but also wants his shares to vest since they vested over 4 years, it would vest that day. 

Does he take his chances that they won't walk him out that day?  If they do, since he gave 2 weeks notice, I assume most likely they will pay him out the 2 weeks but when will his end date technically be?

Has anyone run into this scenario?
 

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Good choice!

caproperty (Mar. 31, 2017 @ 12:05p) |

Very smart for him to take our advice (or did he decide that all on his own)

forbin4040 (Mar. 31, 2017 @ 2:13p) |

So did he get the walkout on the 3rd?

hairybeast (Apr. 10, 2017 @ 1:11p) |

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If he values the $40,000, he'd better not give any kind of notice to his current employer until 4/1/2017. His current company can easily say "Goodbye, no RSU's for you."

The company he's going to work for should understand his situation and be fine with delaying his start date.

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Don't give notice until the vesting is complete.

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I would not give notice until after the stocks vest. Don't risk it.

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If it were me, I would not give notice until my shares hit my brokerage account. Often times it can be up to 45 days after vesting.

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BigTR said:   If he values the $40,000, he'd better not give any kind of notice to his current employer until 4/1/2017. His current company can easily say "Goodbye, no RSU's for you."

The company he's going to work for should understand his situation and be fine with delaying his start date.

  Yeah, can't he just contact the new employer and ask them to push it back a couple weeks? That seems like the simplest solution.

Is this a public company or in the process of going public?

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Usually takes 24 hours for RSU vests to hit your brokerage account. On vest day, most companies sell to cover and then you see them the next day.

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Both companies are public just the new one doesn't have that ability to match the rsus or give a cash bonus for walking away from his previous job shares which is common.

Has 40k vesting 3/31 but also still has another 20k vesting in 2018 and 2019 combined depending on stock price. So still walking away from some just a good chunk to give up for a 2 week swing.

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I've never personally heard of a company firing you for giving notice. Its hard for me to imagine doing that: employee gives notice and then immediately after the company terminates employee to prevent RSUs from vesting? That would be inviting a wrongful termination lawsuit... and it would look really bad because they did all this in response to the employee trying to do the right thing by the employer.

I'm sure some employers do this, but I'm also sure it's a minority. The other option is if he has PTO, the PTO may carry him through the vesting period, or he could wait two weeks to give notice.... or he could simply ask to start the new job on April 15th.

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hpmax said:   I've never personally heard of a company firing you for giving notice. Its hard for me to imagine doing that: employee gives notice and then immediately after the company terminates employee to prevent RSUs from vesting? That would be inviting a wrongful termination lawsuit... and it would look really bad because they did all this in response to the employee trying to do the right thing by the employer.

I'm sure some employers do this, but I'm also sure it's a minority. The other option is if he has PTO, the PTO may carry him through the vesting period, or he could wait two weeks to give notice.... or he could simply ask to start the new job on April 15th.

  

Maybe I'm cynical but I think you've got too much faith in corporate America.    

Also PTO isn't necessarily something you're legally owed.   Maybe you live in a state where it is legally required to be paid out, but thats not a given.
Besides I think if OP had PTO to use he'd do the obvious and burn out the PTO and not be asking.

 

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I have been told before that I wasrequired to burn PTO in order to remove liabilities off the company's balance sheet. I was under the impression that PTO was considered deferred compensation and it is legally owed to you. When my company laid me off, my official termination date was actually modified by the PTO they paid out to me, and I think it may have been modified by the severance they gave me as well.

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STFU until he has the cash. How is that even a question?!

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hpmax said:   I've never personally heard of a company firing you for giving notice. Its hard for me to imagine doing that: employee gives notice and then immediately after the company terminates employee to prevent RSUs from vesting? That would be inviting a wrongful termination lawsuit... and it would look really bad because they did all this in response to the employee trying to do the right thing by the employer.

I'm sure some employers do this, but I'm also sure it's a minority. The other option is if he has PTO, the PTO may carry him through the vesting period, or he could wait two weeks to give notice.... or he could simply ask to start the new job on April 15th.

  Well some employers do walk you out the same day if you are going to a competitor, etc.  The question is if they did that, do they count that as your last day or since they pay you out 2 weeks would it be at the end of two weeks.

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Luniz97 said:   
hpmax said:   I've never personally heard of a company firing you for giving notice. Its hard for me to imagine doing that: employee gives notice and then immediately after the company terminates employee to prevent RSUs from vesting? That would be inviting a wrongful termination lawsuit... and it would look really bad because they did all this in response to the employee trying to do the right thing by the employer.

I'm sure some employers do this, but I'm also sure it's a minority. The other option is if he has PTO, the PTO may carry him through the vesting period, or he could wait two weeks to give notice.... or he could simply ask to start the new job on April 15th.

  Well some employers do walk you out the same day if you are going to a competitor, etc.  The question is if they did that, do they count that as your last day or since they pay you out 2 weeks would it be at the end of two weeks.

  If the employer is smart and wants to avoid any issues, they will pay you through the end of your notice period and walk you out on notice day. 

 

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There is a 90% chance they will walk him out to Prevent the vesting.
Unfortunately this is a dick move, but put the notice on 3/31. (Because 4/1 is a Sat)  
Since he worked on 3/31 that should vest him.

Another way is schedule a vacation on 4/3-4/10 and then quit remotely.  That's another d-move but it secures his vesting.

What your brother will find out is that after he puts in the notice, he's of no value to the company whatsoever corporately. He might be valuable to friends and other coworkers, but to the big corporate machine, he's nothing.

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Echo what other have said before. For 40k, simply take no chances. Wait till the vesting period is over. Perhaps a extra couple days just to be sure and checking to see if the shares have transferred. You can then offer the best you can; e.g., work with new employer if the start date can be pushed out, maybe offer to help out current employer few hours a week off-hours (perhaps weekend) to ease the transition etc.

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Some people are saying to delay start date? There is always a possibility that they could retract his offer right?

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Luniz97 said:   Some people are saying to delay start date? There is always a possibility that they could retract his offer right?
There is also the possibility your brother quits his job, tries to start the new one and they tell him the job's no longer available.

Nothing is guaranteed in life, but you can easily limit exposure to risk by taking proper precautions. Best thing to do IMO is to ask for a delay in start date. If they say yes, great, everything will work out. If they say no, then keep your Mouth shut until fully vested, then leave.
 

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Do not, under any circumstances, give notice until after the vesting date. The company can walk him out and he loses $40k. Why risk even the slightest chance of that? Ask the new company if you can start a bit later. If not possible, then I guess the old company doesn't get notice. Offer to be available for questions or whatever after the quit date.

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Luniz97 said:   Some people are saying to delay start date? There is always a possibility that they could retract his offer right?
  
In my experience on the hiring side at big companies for several years, this rarely happens. By the time the company has extended the offer they've usually sunk north of $10-20k in terms of recruiting costs and employee time to get to this stage. If it's a matter of delaying the start date by a few weeks, I'd hardly see that as a deal breaker.

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caproperty said:   
Luniz97 said:   Some people are saying to delay start date? There is always a possibility that they could retract his offer right?
  
In my experience on the hiring side at big companies for several years, this rarely happens. By the time the company has extended the offer they've usually sunk north of $10-20k in terms of recruiting costs and employee time to get to this stage. If it's a matter of delaying the start date by a few weeks, I'd hardly see that as a deal breaker.

  Exactly. And if you ask nicely (as opposed "informing" that you cannot start until say two weeks later), the worst they may say is e.g., "No, we really need you to start on xx date; we have a critical need for an ongoing project ..."

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Luniz97 said:   Some people are saying to delay start date? There is always a possibility that they could retract his offer right?
  If he's in a position to be getting RSUs from a public company, that would seem to me to be crazy. Having to draw up new papers, get the alternative hire on board with everything, get board approval, etc. would likely push them much farther beyond their preferred new hire start date than just letting your brother start a couple weeks later.

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Why delay the start date? We are mostly saying just to not give 2 weeks. 1 day or 0 day notice.

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forbin4040 said:   Why delay the start date? We are mostly saying just to not give 2 weeks. 1 day or 0 day notice.
  
Why didn't you give us notice?
I was vesting, and I don't trust corporations to behave honorably towards exiting former employees.
You are wise.

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As explained above, I see two options, both of which include not giving notice until the options vest.

1) Dont Give notice at all. You could offer to allow them to call you and ask questions about anything that need info on. This might help smooth over the transition, but I would be write this company off as a future employer.

2) Talk to your recruiter and explain your situation. It seems that they know a little bit about the vesting schedule since they said they were not able to match it. Just ask them without being forceful if they are willing to move back your start date by 2 weeks. Let them know you never want to leave an employer high and dry, but also want to make sure you vest your 40k.

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Let the new company know you will give 2 weeks notice after background check and drug tests are complete. This will buy you some time.

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HumDoHamaraDo said:   Let the new company know you will give 2 weeks notice after background check and drug tests are complete. This will buy you some time.
  
If a prospective employee told me that, I would defiantly think they were worried about failing the drug test, or having something shady in their history.  I would think about how they might view this before you use this option.

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I was in a similar boat, but I knew I was going to leave a corporation 3 years before my final vesting day (it was a lot more than $40K). I kept my Mouth shut, did my time, got my money, then quit the following week. They don't call them Golden Handcuffs for no reason. Do not trust employers, they are not your friend.

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daw4888 said:   HumDoHamaraDo said:   Let the new company know you will give 2 weeks notice after background check and drug tests are complete. This will buy you some time.
  
If a prospective employee told me that, I would defiantly think they were worried about failing the drug test, or having something shady in their history.  I would think about how they might view this before you use this option.


Not only that, it's just stupid to make up this lie. Just ask for the two week delay and if they say no, don't give 2 weeks at the other employer.

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BigTR said:   If he values the $40,000, he'd better not give any kind of notice to his current employer until 4/1/2017. His current company can easily say "Goodbye, no RSU's for you."

The company he's going to work for should understand his situation and be fine with delaying his start date.

The vesting conditions can be a bit vague in the agreements as to what happens if you've given notice before you vest, but vest before final date and some employers are petty, some are strict to the letter of the law.  I would not give notice until I was fully vested with no ambiguity.  Its too much money to leave on the table over a week or 2.  I've seen my company give people the vested amount when the term date is on the vesting date, however generally there was a longer notice period and a transition period that I'm sure was negotiated.  
 

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I'll bet someone in the corporation gets a bonus based on how many of the promised RSUs don't get doled out. Bob from HR's bonus depends on how low he can keep the salary bill.

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He would rather not burn the bridge, if he gets escorted out that day that's fine. He believes they will counter to try to get him to stay but even then he just wants to move to something new.

Should he try calling the brokerage house to find out how his rsus vest, like does it have to work the full last day, etc?

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Well hopefully you can post soon on how it went.
I WANT to hope that his company is different, but I've seen too many cases where the company doesn't care about the person, just their assets.

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forbin4040 said:   Well hopefully you can post soon on how it went.
I WANT to hope that his company is different, but I've seen too many cases where the company doesn't care about the person, just their assets.

  In this kind of case or in general?

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General, personal experience as well as examples here on FW.

When it's time to leave, no matter how loyal, how much of an asset, they walked me out. (Sometimes paid 2 weeks but most of the time not)

On the other side as an employer, one of my employee's put in his two weeks, I scheduled him light work (Mostly because others can take up his job) and the guy 'job abandoned' after 5 days (And now the staff had to do the light work as well as his real work). So I can see from the employer side that I had an 'asset' who decided to screw his current job over. (Not even telling us he left, just one day he stopped showing up, and blocking contacts)

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I sort of tend to side with the employer on this. They aren't evil for not letting the stock vest. Look, the purpose of the vesting schedule is to keep you at the company. If you're leaving, there's no incentive for them to let it vest. Just like you're not willing to give up the $40K to be "nice" to them and give them the two weeks notice (if that means you lose your $40K), they aren't willing to give you the $40K just to be nice to you. I would imagine, at most companies, you can leave and still keep a good relationship, possibly even to boomerang back. Just like you don't want to burn bridges with them, they don't want to burn bridges with you, but $40K is $40K.

As far as walking you out when you give your two weeks, if you're going to a competitor I'd imagine that'd be pretty standard (although I have no experience with this, personally or otherwise), even if it's your best friend that runs the company.

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marginoferror said:   I sort of tend to side with the employer on this. They aren't evil for not letting the stock vest. Look, the purpose of the vesting schedule is to keep you at the company. If you're leaving, there's no incentive for them to let it vest. Just like you're not willing to give up the $40K to be "nice" to them and give them the two weeks notice (if that means you lose your $40K), they aren't willing to give you the $40K just to be nice to you. I would imagine, at most companies, you can leave and still keep a good relationship, possibly even to boomerang back. Just like you don't want to burn bridges with them, they don't want to burn bridges with you, but $40K is $40K.

As far as walking you out when you give your two weeks, if you're going to a competitor I'd imagine that'd be pretty standard (although I have no experience with this, personally or otherwise), even if it's your best friend that runs the company.

  Very good points. I do understand both sides of the fence.  However 2 weeks away from the best date, that would be rsus that he earned.

he is going to a competitor but he knows he's the only one who can do this job currently.  Not that it's specialized but they never cross trained anyone he said. So he thinks they will want 2 weeks for help.

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Make sure they don't have a non compete (If in CA, noncompetes don't apply)

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Yes in California

Skipping 8 Messages...
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So did he get the walkout on the 3rd?

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