• filter:

Chargeback Issue with Discover For Cruise T&C - Need some Help

  • Text Only
  • Search this Topic »
Voting History
rated:
Could use some wisdom from the FWF gods 

Wife and I are having a baby shortly, and we were looking to do one last freedom vacation before baby arrives.

January 2017:

  • Booked a cruise through a 3rd party cruise agency-ish website for a Royal Caribbean cruise. Emphasis on not booking directly with the Cruise-line.
  • Instantly charged my credit card, 1 charge for the travel agency fee, 1 charge for Royal Caribbean cruise itself.
  • I received an email confirming my booking, along with a link to read and agree to the terms and conditions - these are essentially Royal Caribbeans T&C. I decided to wait and read it next week before blindly accepting.
  • After reading the terms/conditions about a week later, I realized that there is language stating that anyone that is 25 weeks pregnant will not be allowed. This wasn't in anyway presented to me when I originally booked the cruise through the 3rd party. By my calculations SO would be approx. 28+ weeks pregnant.
  • I never clicked Accept to the terms and conditions
  • Called the 3rd Party Travel Agency, told them I never clicked on the accept button for terms and conditions and wished to cancel. They wouldn't budge - and basically said booking it makes you agree... which is hialrious, because the terms and conditions weren't sent/viewable until booking it.
  • Most they (Royal Caribbean) would offer is to give me a refund for all but $500, and that would be held to be used within a year. Goodluck being able to take a cruise within the first year of having a baby. I declined and said I would go through my credit card.
  • I put in a dispute with my credit card (Discover), explaining the situation as well as uploading the booking email that states to read and agree to the terms and conditions - as well as a copy of the T&C with the "I agree" button that I did not click.
  • Dispute went in, didn't seem like there was going to be an issue - CSR was understanding of the situation. Credit card was quickly refunded, and it said the dispute was marked as "Complete" about a week later. I thought this was the end of it.


March 2017:

  • Fast forward to today, I see a charge on my credit card for the original cruise, insinuating the chargeback was denied. I never received any notice, and didn't look like they wanted to even give me any recourse to keep it open or anything
  • I called Discover dispute line, basically sounded like Royal Caribbean sent them a copy of the T&C from the sounds of it... Insinuating that I in any way agreed to it.
  • CSR with Discover basically says "Well, I don't know if you clicked the Agree button or not" - and also insisted that if they charged the card, then I must have agreed to it. Which is a load of BS, because they charged my card immediately after it was booked with the agency.


At this point, there is no shot at us being able to go on this cruise - including by their own rules stating SO must be less than 25 weeks pregnant. I'm a little lost in this and am wondering what my best options would be. It doesn't seem like Discover cares to believe me even though I sent them proof that T&C were sent after the fact (not BEFORE booking), and that they weren't agreed to. I told the rep I can send you a copy of T&C stating that you owe me $2000 for talking to me, that doesn't mean you agreed to them. Her rhetoric and responses though were just dismissive and doubting with replies like "I've booked a cruise before, they don't charge your card unless you agree".  At this point since Discover doesn't want to defend their customer I'm almost willing to just not pay the charge and settle it elsewhere. I have no problem fighting off credit vultures as they try to prove things.


Any help, tips, or next steps are appreciated  
 

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
The last cruise I went on, two different travel agents wanted me to pay a fee before I decided to book direct with NCL. ... (more)

diffeldoof (Mar. 13, 2017 @ 1:56a) |

OP is posting today in another thread, but hasn't come back here to update his thread.

NoMoneyInMyWallet (Mar. 13, 2017 @ 2:16p) |

Provide an update to your thread ... don't hit and run.

NoMoneyInMyWallet (Mar. 17, 2017 @ 3:49p) |

Staff Summary
Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

rated:
show up for the cruise, tell them your wife is 28 weeks pregnant, let them turn you away, ask for refund for denial of service.

rated:
which cruise agency-ish site did you use?
some of them have pretty clear links for pregnancy (https://www.cruisecheap.com/cruise-lines/royal-caribbean-cruises...

rated:
imbatman said:   which cruise agency-ish site did you use?
some of them have pretty clear links for pregnancy (https://www.cruisecheap.com/cruise-lines/royal-caribbean-cruises-pregnancy-policy.html)

  
http://mr.cruisesonly.com/

Basically a Marriott version of CruiseOnly.. They may have it digged in their site somewhere, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere when booking.

rated:
You created far too much noise within your chargeback - you booked a cruise, once provided the terms found that they would not be able to provide the service you purchased, and immediately requested a refund.  Period.  Yes, a week later counts as "immediately", you're the one who explained it into looking like you didn't bother to read anything and are now just looking for an excuse to cancel.

what did Discover say when you complained about having been notified the dispute had been finalized?  Surely you asked them this, before starting to bicker over mostly petty he-said-she-said details?

rated:
Glitch99 said:   You created far too much noise within your chargeback - you booked a cruise, once provided the terms found that they would not be able to provide the service you purchased, and immediately requested a refund.  Period.  Yes, a week later counts as "immediately", you're the one who explained it into looking like you didn't bother to read anything and are now just looking for an excuse to cancel.

what did Discover say when you complained about having been notified the dispute had been finalized?  Surely you asked them this, before starting to bicker over mostly petty he-said-she-said details?

  
Not understanding your post? "Explained it into looking like you didn't bother to read anything"? I did read everything....  And I brought the issue forward rather quickly for a cruise thats booked months in advance, within 1 week of booking the cruise would seem acceptable since they sent a large document of terms/conditions that I needed to read.

Sorry, I'm open to criticism, but I'm definitely not understanding your post 

rated:
justignoredem said:   At this point, there is no shot at us being able to go on this cruise - including by their own rules stating SO must be less than 25 weeks pregnant. 
 

25 weeks or 28 weeks, is there such a visible difference in 3 weeks? Do they have personnel at the loading gate checking every womans belly? And wouldn't it be mighty awkward if they asked a woman if she was pregnant and she was just fat? Just go and enjoy yourself, have her wear loose clothing when boarding. If they ask anything, just say you're not exactly sure how far along she is, maybe 20 or 22 weeks.

rated:
justignoredem said:   
Glitch99 said:   You created far too much noise within your chargeback - you booked a cruise, once provided the terms found that they would not be able to provide the service you purchased, and immediately requested a refund.  Period.  Yes, a week later counts as "immediately", you're the one who explained it into looking like you didn't bother to read anything and are now just looking for an excuse to cancel.

what did Discover say when you complained about having been notified the dispute had been finalized?  Surely you asked them this, before starting to bicker over mostly petty he-said-she-said details?

  
Not understanding your post? "Explained it into looking like you didn't bother to read anything"? I did read everything....  And I brought the issue forward rather quickly for a cruise thats booked months in advance, within 1 week of booking the cruise would seem acceptable since they sent a large document of terms/conditions that I needed to read.

Sorry, I'm open to criticism, but I'm definitely not understanding your post 

  You added too much noise in over-explaining, instead of keeping it as concise and to the point as possible.  You bought a cruise, the cruise line cannot deliver the cruise in accordance with their terms.  Nothing else matters.  By laying it all out, you gave them many different irrelevant details to latch onto instead of staying focused on the issue.

rated:
Discover is notorious for being the worst for disputes. I would mail in a dispute to the address listed on your statement (Discover, PO Box 30421, Salt Lake City, UT 84130-0421). When you dispute via phone, you miss out on some of your legal rights. see https://www.discover.com/billingrights/ (PDF). I would make the dispute short and say that the cruise line is refusing service based on terms and conditions that were presented to you AFTER purchase.

I would hurry because you only have 60 days after the statement date to dispute charges.  Your phone dispute might not be considered a dispute under the Fair Credit Billing Act.

rated:
Something seems very weird about this whole setup.  Why would the agency be charging you a fee?  For a cruise, the travel agent gets a commission from the cruise line.  I've booked 14 cruises, some through the cruise line and some through an agent, and every time I've gone through an agent, the agent pays me for booking through them.  So I don't understand this "agent fee" thing at all.

I'm guessing that this is a last-minute cruise?  Because before final payment (typically 60 days out from the cruise), your money is 100% refundable, in every case I'm aware of (including Royal Caribbean).  But within the final payment period, the lines show no mercy, no refunds for any reason.

It is typical for the agent to take your card info and the charge will actually be done by Royal Caribbean.  The agent is supposed to get you to agree to the cruise line's T&C's before they put through the charge.  When they present your card info to Royal, they are asserting that you have already agreed to the T&C's, so in this case, it seems they effectively they lied to Royal.  It seems to me the real culprit here is the agent.

I think your best bet is to go back to Royal and explain that the agent did not provide you the T&C's before booking and did not have your agreement to the T&C's.  Put it plainly that the agent lied to Royal in asserting that you had accepted the T&C's.  

Good luck.

Chris.

rated:
How are they to determine # of weeks pregnant (hint: they can't)... this it to protect them if something happens to the pregnancy while on the cruise as there are not proper medical facilities

rated:
BPANZER1 said:   How are they to determine # of weeks pregnant (hint: they can't)... this it to protect them if something happens to the pregnancy while on the cruise as there are not proper medical facilities
  
No, it is to protect the passenger as well. What if she is forced to give birth while on the ship? 25 weeks isn't an arbitrary number. It is the earliest someone can deliver with the baby surviving assuming there are proper medical facilities. 

rated:
Just go on the cruise, saying she is 23 weeks pregnant. The cruise line doesn't want any chance that she would deliver while on board.  Otherwise, they don't care how many weeks pregnant she is.

rated:
Your focus should be to get your priorities straight. Who chooses to get locked on a boat with no access to medical care while over 25 weeks pregnant? Baffled

rated:
atikovi said:   
justignoredem said:   At this point, there is no shot at us being able to go on this cruise - including by their own rules stating SO must be less than 25 weeks pregnant. 
25 weeks or 28 weeks, is there such a visible difference in 3 weeks? Do they have personnel at the loading gate checking every womans belly? And wouldn't it be mighty awkward if they asked a woman if she was pregnant and she was just fat? Just go and enjoy yourself, have her wear loose clothing when boarding. If they ask anything, just say you're not exactly sure how far along she is, maybe 20 or 22 weeks.

  
this is the correct answer.

But as someone else pointed out, why you'd WANT to be on a cruise ship that far along in a pregnancy (even 20-25 weeks) is beyond me.

rated:
defjukie said:   
atikovi said:   
justignoredem said:   At this point, there is no shot at us being able to go on this cruise - including by their own rules stating SO must be less than 25 weeks pregnant. 
25 weeks or 28 weeks, is there such a visible difference in 3 weeks? Do they have personnel at the loading gate checking every womans belly? And wouldn't it be mighty awkward if they asked a woman if she was pregnant and she was just fat? Just go and enjoy yourself, have her wear loose clothing when boarding. If they ask anything, just say you're not exactly sure how far along she is, maybe 20 or 22 weeks.

  
this is the correct answer.

But as someone else pointed out, why you'd WANT to be on a cruise ship that far along in a pregnancy (even 20-25 weeks) is beyond me.

  But of course. Just ask your doctor. If no complications are expected he'll probably say go. My math tells me 24 weeks are 6 months. A normal human takes 9 months to be delivered. Plenty of leeway. And besides, most ships have fully equipped medical facilities.

rated:
justignoredem said:   
imbatman said:   which cruise agency-ish site did you use?
some of them have pretty clear links for pregnancy (https://www.cruisecheap.com/cruise-lines/royal-caribbean-cruises-pregnancy-policy.html)

http://mr.cruisesonly.com/ 

Basically a Marriott version of CruiseOnly.. They may have it digged in their site somewhere, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere when booking.

It was staring you in the face! (assuming they didn't add it after you booked)

Better luck next time.

ETA:  At the bottom of the same page.

Special requirements

If you or a guest is pregnant or traveling with an infant child, or if there is a need to communicate a request for special meals, medical conditions or physical challenges, we ask that you please call 800-596-0452. Cruise Experts are available 24 Hours a Day, 7 Days a Week. We will do everything we can to meet your needs and answer all of your questions.
  

rated:
Well I just booked a cruise- used a travel agent- Princess cruise lines. I never signed or clicked on anything- it was all done over the phone. I got an email with my receipt and my tickets. At the bottom of one email it says 'important notice: upon booking the cruise each passenger explicitly agrees to the terms of the passage contract...". So I also find this interesting- I can book an expensive involved cruise over the phone- realistically all the agent knew was my age, names, and credit card number. And from that I get an email telling me that I've essentially already agreed to the terms of the contract? Sounds like wishful princess cruise lines legal logic to me. IANAL- but how can I agree to a contract I never saw and never signed? I see your angle- I'd consider going back to the cruise line and explain the situation to them. They might be able to erase the charges. Discover will 'fight' for you but if it's a large company they have less leverage to 'fight' for you.

rated:
Final page of booking.

rated:
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   Final page of booking.
  thank you for doing that so I don't have to.
OP agreed to the T&C prior to finalizing the booking.

rated:
Wow... dude.. wow..

Just 2 months back someone at work got a call from pregnant wife complaining about feeling contraction. Yup, right, he thought probably nothing since it's more than6 weeks away so he went home.. and texted later that baby is born. A bit small but healthy. Another guy at work only found about a genetic incompatibility after the first baby born, they got lucky but the baby could've died in the womb.

to a cruise ship with so much people and germs... U R nuts.

rated:
justignoredem said:   
Dispute went in, didn't seem like there was going to be an issue - CSR was understanding of the situation. Credit card was quickly refunded, and it said the dispute was marked as "Complete" about a week later. I thought this was the end of it.

The credit card company issues you a "courtesy credit" while they investigate your dispute. After the investigation is "complete", the credit card company usually sides with the merchant unless you used AMEX.  

rated:
justignoredem said:   Wife and I are having a baby shortly, and we were looking to do one last freedom vacation before baby arrives.

By my calculations SO would be approx. 28+ weeks pregnant.

Does your wife know about your SO?  
  

rated:
justignoredem said:   

  • Most they (Royal Caribbean) would offer is to give me a refund for all but $500, and that would be held to be used within a year. Goodluck being able to take a cruise within the first year of having a baby. I declined and said I would go through my credit card.


Take the refund and the credit.  There's no reason you can't take a cruise with a toddler - it will be just what you need!  You can probably stretch that one year out to longer by using it to put down a deposit on a future cruise.  You probably don't actually have to take the cruise within the year.
 

rated:
dcwilbur said:   Take the refund and the credit.  There's no reason you can't take a cruise with a toddler - it will be just what you need!  You can probably stretch that one year out to longer by using it to put down a deposit on a future cruise.  You probably don't actually have to take the cruise within the year.No, leave the toddler with the grandparents and vacation as a couple - that will be just what you need!  

rated:
atikovi said:   
justignoredem said:   At this point, there is no shot at us being able to go on this cruise - including by their own rules stating SO must be less than 25 weeks pregnant. 
25 weeks or 28 weeks, is there such a visible difference in 3 weeks? Do they have personnel at the loading gate checking every womans belly? And wouldn't it be mighty awkward if they asked a woman if she was pregnant and she was just fat? Just go and enjoy yourself, have her wear loose clothing when boarding. If they ask anything, just say you're not exactly sure how far along she is, maybe 20 or 22 weeks.

  Exactly-what are they going to do when she shows up to board?  Demand she have a sonogram on the spot to determine how far along she is?  Much ado about nothing.  Should have just gone on the cruise.

rated:
ZenNUTS said:   to a cruise ship with so much people and germs... U R nuts.
  You got to expose the kid to that or he'll never develop immunity. The earlier the better, and in the womb probably the best.

rated:
Since you never agreed to the T&C they charged your credit card without authorization, therefore this is a fraudulent charge. Call discover tell them this is fraudulent charge and you did not authorize the charge.  They will credit you account. 

BTW: When people gave you the advice about lying about how far along your wife is.  That will not work. The Royal Caribbean's requirement. is:
A physician's Fit to Travel note stating that the mother is in good health, not a high risk pregnancy, and not entering the 24th week, is required. This document, in addition to Royal Caribbean's Pregnancy Waiver should be faxed to Royal Caribbean Special Needs Department at 954-628-9622. Guests should also carry a copy of the waiver with them to travel.

If you decide not do the chargeback you could also contact Royal Caribbean and see if they will switch the date for the cruise, to sometime that is better for you.

 

rated:
atikovi said:   
ZenNUTS said:   to a cruise ship with so much people and germs... U R nuts.
  You got to expose the kid to that or he'll never develop immunity. The earlier the better, and in the womb probably the best.

 Thank God you are not a doctor!

rated:
I'm not a doctor but I'll have a look.

rated:
If her water breaks be sure it is out of the room. You don't want to have to pay for a deep room cleaning fee. Seriously, I suspect they may not want a pregnant women on board as they won't sell as much alcohol - that is where cruise lines make much of their profit.

rated:
lonestarguy said:   If her water breaks be sure it is out of the room. You don't want to have to pay for a deep room cleaning fee. Seriously, I suspect they may not want a pregnant women on board as they won't sell as much alcohol - that is where cruise lines make much of their profit.
  I thought on most of these cruises the food and drink is included in the price?

rated:
atikovi said:   
lonestarguy said:   If her water breaks be sure it is out of the room. You don't want to have to pay for a deep room cleaning fee. Seriously, I suspect they may not want a pregnant women on board as they won't sell as much alcohol - that is where cruise lines make much of their profit.
  I thought on most of these cruises the food and drink is included in the price?

  Most food yes but not drinks unless you get a premium package.  Drinks are extra

rated:
belowcost said:   Since you never agreed to the T&C they charged your credit card without authorization, therefore this is a fraudulent charge. Call discover tell them this is fraudulent charge and you did not authorize the charge.  They will credit you account. https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1557620?showmessage=198...

Hint: Yes, he did agree to the T&Cs.

rated:
atikovi said:   
ZenNUTS said:   to a cruise ship with so much people and germs... U R nuts.
  You got to expose the kid to that or he'll never develop immunity. The earlier the better, and in the womb probably the best.

  
You are both wrong, ROTFL...  

rated:
Lets assume OP lies about how many weeks. Then complications happen during the cruise or overseas port. Let's assume insurance was purchased. Try to file for insurance benefits and gets denied once insurance company figures out OP should have never been on board.

rated:
you got the T&C AFTER the fact. the booking agent was probably supposed to read the T&C to you over the phone and get a recorded "yes." so why not sure booking agent in small claims?

rated:
take the cruise. nothing like a hot preggo in a bikini on the lido deck.

rated:
I know of a few cases where the doctors calculation was off by 2 weeks or more.

Skipping 27 Messages...
rated:
justignoredem said:   Any help, tips, or next steps are appreciated  Provide an update to your thread ... don't hit and run.
  

  • Quick Reply:  Have something quick to contribute? Just reply below and you're done! hide Quick Reply
     
    Click here for full-featured reply.


Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

While FatWallet makes every effort to post correct information, offers are subject to change without notice.
Some exclusions may apply based upon merchant policies.
© 1999-2017