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rated:
These are now between 0.03% and 0.06%: LINK
This is in addition to their $4.95 stock trades.

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Through the miracle of stepped-up basis, some families may never realize the gain either.

stanolshefski (Mar. 08, 2017 @ 1:55p) |

. However, I don't know what the IRS does about these cases. 

This got me to thinking. Imagine that you have a large taxa... (more)

samko (Mar. 09, 2017 @ 8:02p) |

You make a good argument for keeping the estate tax or for doing away with the stepped-up basis.

samko (Mar. 09, 2017 @ 8:04p) |

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rated:
Ask yourself if you trust a for-profit company to lose money for the next X decades. That's the problem here in comparison to Vanguard. It may not be a big deal in a retirement account because you will only be out of the market for about a week for a rollover, but you will have to pay capital gains taxes to move from Schwab to somewhere else in a cash account.

Also, Vanguard STILL may be cheaper due to the way securities lending income is counted. Vanguard shares 100% of the income to shareholders (which is not reflected in the expense ratio) -- I'm willing to bet that Schwab does not.

ETA
The prospectus doesn't mention any fee waivers nor does it mention how securities lending income is shared -- other than mentioning that it can reduce the gap between fund performance and the actual index.

rated:
As you said, it would probably be a stupid move to sell an index fund like Vanguard, outside a retirement account, then move it to a Schwab index fund. I've owned the Schwab S&P 500 Fund (SWPPX) for a long time. It is my best performing mutual fund. One of these days there will come a time to sell and have to pay all those unrealized capital gains. The tax man will eventually get his bite.

One advantage is the minimum initial investment for these funds ($1, after meeting any whatever minimums to open a brokerage account).  Good for someone to get started with.

rated:
Give it a little time, I'd bet Fidelity will match those prices.

rated:
stanolshefski said:   Ask yourself if you trust a for-profit company to lose money for the next X decades. That's the problem here in comparison to Vanguard. It may not be a big deal in a retirement account because you will only be out of the market for about a week for a rollover, but you will have to pay capital gains taxes to move from Schwab to somewhere else in a cash account.

Also, Vanguard STILL may be cheaper due to the way securities lending income is counted. Vanguard shares 100% of the income to shareholders (which is not reflected in the expense ratio) -- I'm willing to bet that Schwab does not.

ETA
The prospectus doesn't mention any fee waivers nor does it mention how securities lending income is shared -- other than mentioning that it can reduce the gap between fund performance and the actual index.

No need to get defensive, Schwab vs Vanguard. I think most people here on FWF would agree that Schwab, Vanguard, and Fidelity are all pretty equal, that a new investor would be fine picking any one of the three.

I'm with Fidelity myself, because I went with them 20 yrs ago. They were much easier to deal with than Vanguard and provided a much more complete solution to managing all my cash and investments. But as you say, the cost to move to Schwab or Vanguard now would be prohibitive.

rated:
AverageGuy09 said:   Give it a little time, I'd bet Fidelity will match those prices.
  I dont see how Schwab or Fedeluty can offer these prices without losing money. Vanguard operates as a non-profit, typically pays less than competitors, operates no brick-and-motor locations, and charges more for the least profitable customers.

Either this is a loss leader, or securities leading income that Schwab makes and that they don't share is enough to make these funds profitable 

rated:
stanolshefski said:   
 
  I dont see how Schwab or Fedeluty can offer these prices without losing money. 

  Here's your answer
How is Charles Schwab Investment Management able to offer its index mutual funds and ETFs to clients at such low expense levels?

We are able to offer these products at competitive expenses because of our scale and by improving efficiency through our operations.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   stanolshefski said:   
 
  I dont see how Schwab or Fedeluty can offer these prices without losing money. 

  Here's your answer
How is Charles Schwab Investment Management able to offer its index mutual funds and ETFs to clients at such low expense levels?

We are able to offer these products at competitive expenses because of our scale and by improving efficiency through our operations.

Vanguard has a largest scale, pays less and they are essentially non-profit.

rated:
stanolshefski said:   AverageGuy09 said:   Give it a little time, I'd bet Fidelity will match those prices.
  I dont see how Schwab or Fedeluty can offer these prices without losing money. Vanguard operates as a non-profit, typically pays less than competitors, operates no brick-and-motor locations, and charges more for the least profitable customers.

Either this is a loss leader, or securities leading income that Schwab makes and that they don't share is enough to make these funds profitable 


It's probably a loss leader. Next lowest is the TSP plan, where their fee for index funds is 0.038%. Schwab's costs of business is higher than that. There might be a handful of Schwab customers with only these index funds and no other business, but the rest also have other products.

rated:
stanolshefski said:     I dont see how Schwab or Fedeluty can offer these prices without losing money. Vanguard operates as a non-profit, typically pays less than competitors, operates no brick-and-motor locations, and charges more for the least profitable customers.
 

  And the fact that Vanguard seems to be have some tax loophole (or just is underpaying their taxes a lot by having a very confusing corporate structure) also really advantages them vs more traditional for-profit brokers like Schwab or Fidelity.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Does-SEC-brie...

rated:
Schwab, Vanguard and Fidelity all have what they call "personal advisory services", "wealth management services", etc.  They typically charge 0.25% - 0.9% annually (usually in addition to the funds' expense ratio), although Fidelity's can go higher in some cases.  Not as much as the old Merrill Lynch full-service fee model, but far more than the bargain-basement ETF and index mutual fund expense ratios being discussed here.

Each company typically makes heavy use of it's own ETFs and low-cost index funds in these programs.  I doubt most of their customers use these, but enough may to enable the low-expense funds themselves to be a loss leader.

rated:
burgerwars said:   
stanolshefski said:   
AverageGuy09 said:   Give it a little time, I'd bet Fidelity will match those prices.
  I dont see how Schwab or Fedeluty can offer these prices without losing money. Vanguard operates as a non-profit, typically pays less than competitors, operates no brick-and-motor locations, and charges more for the least profitable customers.

Either this is a loss leader, or securities leading income that Schwab makes and that they don't share is enough to make these funds profitable 


It's probably a loss leader. Next lowest is the TSP plan, where their fee for index funds is 0.038%. Schwab's costs of business is higher than that. There might be a handful of Schwab customers with only these index funds and no other business, but the rest also have other products.

  At least I know how the TSP gets their expense ratios down -- by utilizing invested employer contributions and, I believe, loan interest. 

rated:
The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

BTW: It's approx 0.05% lower than Vanguard fees (for now). Ask yourself how much difference that really makes for your portfolio.

I don't trust these companies much, after I got burned by TDWaterhouse. They added a back end load to a mutual fund AFTER I had bought it (it was advertised as "no load" when I bought it). It was only $50, but they could have made it $500 and I would have had no recourse but to grit my teeth and pay.
Never again. I moved my money to Vanguard, where they seem to be more honest.

rated:
The % sign is in error.

rated:
It's great news that there are several big players competing aggressively on costs. I rolled all of our retirement accounts up into Vanguard a few years ago - one was a former employer's 401k with Fidelity. Their rep asked about the transfer and made a mild pitch to keep my money, pointing out that Fidelity had lower fees. The big thought in my mind at the time was where the hell were those funds the last 5 years instead of the crap in my 401k. But I'm also skeptical about how fees will evolve with the relatively new competitors in that market. I've only been with Vanguard a few years, with I think 6 total different funds. But several times a year, we get notices that fees are dropping. So I am confident that Vanguard continues to work for my interests, and don't see temptation yet to investigate these alternatives.

rated:
Just like grocery stores have loss leaders, so can investment companies. Schwab could raise fees, but there is so much competition in the ETF space to switch if needed.

Between all of these big firms, they all do a good job which is driven both by culture and competition.

My read is the robo investing tools are the threat, so making these investment vehicles cheap can help keep the investments.

Rasheed

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

rated:
rasheedb said:   Just like grocery stores have loss leaders, so can investment companies. Schwab could raise fees, but there is so much competition in the ETF space to switch if needed.

Between all of these big firms, they all do a good job which is driven both by culture and competition.

My read is the robo investing tools are the threat, so making these investment vehicles cheap can help keep the investments.

Rasheed

  Sounds great until you have a whole bunch of unrealized capital gains in a taxable account.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund
 

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund

  Agree.  Unless the accounts are inside a regular IRA or 401(k) the capital gains will show on form 1099-B (I think that's the form).
 

rated:
burgerwars said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund

  Agree.  Unless the accounts are inside a regular IRA or 401(k) the capital gains will show on form 1099-B (I think that's the form).

  Is this problem common knowledge?

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
burgerwars said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund

  Agree.  Unless the accounts are inside a regular IRA or 401(k) the capital gains will show on form 1099-B (I think that's the form).

  Is this problem common knowledge?

  Yes. Anyone who owns any mutual funds or stocks would know this. It's truly Taxes 101. 
You thought you could sell a Schwab fund, buy a Vanguard fund, and not pay tax on capital gains??

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
burgerwars said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund

  Agree.  Unless the accounts are inside a regular IRA or 401(k) the capital gains will show on form 1099-B (I think that's the form).

  Is this problem common knowledge?

  Yes. Anyone who owns any mutual funds or stocks would know this. It's truly Taxes 101. 
You thought you could sell a Schwab fund, buy a Vanguard fund, and not pay tax on capital gains??

  i guess the govt only has a wash-sale rule when it benefits them

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
burgerwars said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund

  Agree.  Unless the accounts are inside a regular IRA or 401(k) the capital gains will show on form 1099-B (I think that's the form).

  Is this problem common knowledge?

  Yes. Anyone who owns any mutual funds or stocks would know this. It's truly Taxes 101. 
You thought you could sell a Schwab fund, buy a Vanguard fund, and not pay tax on capital gains??

  i guess the govt only has a wash-sale rule when it benefits them


----------------------
Wash rule:What is the 'Wash-Sale Rule'An Internal Revenue Service (IRS) rule that prohibits a taxpayer from claiming a loss on the sale or trade of a security in a wash sale. The rule defines a wash sale as one that occurs when an individual sells or trades a security at a loss, and within 30 days before or after this sale, buys a “substantially identical” stock or security, or acquires a contract or option to do so. A wash sale also results if an individual sells a security, and the spouse or a company controlled by the individual buys a substantially equivalent security.
-------------------------

If you unloaded your index fund at a loss (I would assume in a market panic) and bought something identical within thirty days, you probably couldn't itemize that loss.  One should be consulting an investment advisor if they're prone to doing that.  Options may go by different rules, but I'm not any expert. 

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
burgerwars said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund

  Agree.  Unless the accounts are inside a regular IRA or 401(k) the capital gains will show on form 1099-B (I think that's the form).

  Is this problem common knowledge?

  Yes. Anyone who owns any mutual funds or stocks would know this. It's truly Taxes 101. 
You thought you could sell a Schwab fund, buy a Vanguard fund, and not pay tax on capital gains??

  i guess the govt only has a wash-sale rule when it benefits them

  Wash sales are for selling/buying IDENTICAL funds. In almost all cases, the EXACT SAME fund. That means the same fund symbol, from the same company.
Not for buying/selling different funds.
BTW: the wash sale rule simply prevents people from gaming the system and selling funds to harvest capital losses. That sort of thing exacerbates bear markets.

rated:
 
----------------------
Wash rule:What is the 'Wash-Sale Rule'An Internal Revenue Service (IRS) rule that prohibits a taxpayer from claiming a loss on the sale or trade of a security in a wash sale. The rule defines a wash sale as one that occurs when an individual sells or trades a security at a loss, and within 30 days before or after this sale, buys a “substantially identical” stock or security, or acquires a contract or option to do so. A wash sale also results if an individual sells a security, and the spouse or a company controlled by the individual buys a substantially equivalent security.
-------------------------

If you unloaded your index fund at a loss (I would assume in a market panic) and bought something identical within thirty days, you probably couldn't itemize that loss.  One should be consulting an investment advisor if they're prone to doing that.  Options may go by different rules, but I'm not any expert. 

  Actually, yes you could. You could sell a Schwab S&P index fund and buya Vanguard S&P index fund, and harvest the capital losses. That violates the spirit of the law, but I haven't heard of the IRS coming after anyone for that.

Here's a good description of why this seems to be OK:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/the-wash-sale-problem-when-tax-loss-harvesting-almost-substantially-identical-mutual-funds-and-etfs/

There are many ways to play this game perfectly safely. For example, sell Ford stock, buy GM stock. Sell IBM, buy Dell. Sell an S&P 500 fund, buy a Vanguard 500 Index fund.

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
burgerwars said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   The real problem is that there's no guarantee that the rates will stay this low. Once Schwab has enough customers, they can just hike the rates.
In a bull market like this, nobody will leave since they would immediately have to pay massive capital gains.

 

  Schwab knows this and this is their play then? There is not a way to avoid cap gains if just switching?

  No. If you "switch" to a different fund, you will have to sell your old fund. That triggers the capital gains.
You can't switch funds any more than you can switch stocks. The only exception is if the two funds are basically identical. example: switching from regular to Admiral version of a Vanguard fund

  Agree.  Unless the accounts are inside a regular IRA or 401(k) the capital gains will show on form 1099-B (I think that's the form).

  Is this problem common knowledge?

  Yes. Anyone who owns any mutual funds or stocks would know this. It's truly Taxes 101. 
You thought you could sell a Schwab fund, buy a Vanguard fund, and not pay tax on capital gains??

  i guess the govt only has a wash-sale rule when it benefits them

  Wash sales are for selling/buying IDENTICAL funds. In almost all cases, the EXACT SAME fund. That means the same fund symbol, from the same company.
Not for buying/selling different funds.
BTW: the wash sale rule simply prevents people from gaming the system and selling funds to harvest capital losses. That sort of thing exacerbates bear markets.

  Technically it's not "identical," it's "substantially similar." Although, the IRS doesn't provide a lot of guidance on what would be substantially similar.

For example:

  • One could argue that the voting and non-voting Alphabet (Google) stock could be substantially similar because they are share classes of the same stock that have same ownership rights -- and one could also argue that they're not because one has voting rights and the other doesn't
  • One could argue that two index mutual funds tracking the same index are substantially similar because they have nearly identical holdings -- and one could argue that they're not because they have different expense ratios, methods of dealing with index changes and rules for sharing securities lending
  • One could argue that the Admiral class of Vanguard mutual funds is substantially similar to the ETF class because they are the exact same fund with the exact same expense ratio -- and one could argue that they're not because Admiral shares can be exchanged for ETF shares and ETF shares can be exchanged for creation units 



 

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
 
There are many ways to play this game perfectly safely. For example, sell Ford stock, buy GM stock. Sell IBM, buy Dell. Sell an S&P 500 fund, buy a Vanguard 500 Index fund.

  So if I understand this correctly, the "game" is if you've lost on A , you sell A, quickly buy B (where A~B) and get to deduct the losses of A from other gains in your portfolio. Does anyone here do this regularly?
BTW: the wash sale rule simply prevents people from gaming the system and selling funds to harvest capital losses. That sort of thing exacerbates bear markets.
seems like there's a giant loophole

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
 
There are many ways to play this game perfectly safely. For example, sell Ford stock, buy GM stock. Sell IBM, buy Dell. Sell an S&P 500 fund, buy a Vanguard 500 Index fund.

  So if I understand this correctly, the "game" is if you've lost on A , you sell A, quickly buy B (where A~B) and get to deduct the losses of A from other gains in your portfolio. Does anyone here do this regularly?
BTW: the wash sale rule simply prevents people from gaming the system and selling funds to harvest capital losses. That sort of thing exacerbates bear markets.
seems like there's a giant loophole

  During the Great Recession, yes.
Now? Unless you're very good at losing money in a bull market, there's not a lot of losses to harvest.
BTW: This doesn't get rid of your tax obligations. It just means you can use your losses now instead of later, if that happens to help your tax situation.

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
 
There are many ways to play this game perfectly safely. For example, sell Ford stock, buy GM stock. Sell IBM, buy Dell. Sell an S&P 500 fund, buy a Vanguard 500 Index fund.

  So if I understand this correctly, the "game" is if you've lost on A , you sell A, quickly buy B (where A~B) and get to deduct the losses of A from other gains in your portfolio. Does anyone here do this regularly?
BTW: the wash sale rule simply prevents people from gaming the system and selling funds to harvest capital losses. That sort of thing exacerbates bear markets.
seems like there's a giant loophole

  During the Great Recession, yes.
Now? Unless you're very good at losing money in a bull market, there's not a lot of losses to harvest.
BTW: This doesn't get rid of your tax obligations. It just means you can use your losses now instead of later, if that happens to help your tax situation.

  Through the miracle of stepped-up basis, some families may never realize the gain either.

rated:
canoeguy1 said:   
 
----------------------
Wash rule:What is the 'Wash-Sale Rule'An Internal Revenue Service (IRS) rule that prohibits a taxpayer from claiming a loss on the sale or trade of a security in a wash sale. The rule defines a wash sale as one that occurs when an individual sells or trades a security at a loss, and within 30 days before or after this sale, buys a “substantially identical” stock or security, or acquires a contract or option to do so. A wash sale also results if an individual sells a security, and the spouse or a company controlled by the individual buys a substantially equivalent security.
-------------------------

If you unloaded your index fund at a loss (I would assume in a market panic) and bought something identical within thirty days, you probably couldn't itemize that loss.  One should be consulting an investment advisor if they're prone to doing that.  Options may go by different rules, but I'm not any expert. 

  Actually, yes you could. You could sell a Schwab S&P index fund and buya Vanguard S&P index fund, and harvest the capital losses. That violates the spirit of the law, but I haven't heard of the IRS coming after anyone for that.

Here's a good description of why this seems to be OK:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/the-wash-sale-problem-when-tax-loss-harvesting-almost-substantially-identical-mutual-funds-and-etfs/ 

There are many ways to play this game perfectly safely. For example, sell Ford stock, buy GM stock. Sell IBM, buy Dell. Sell an S&P 500 fund, buy a Vanguard 500 Index fund.

  Your Ford/GM example is apt, but I'm not so sure about the S&P 500 example. From the site you mentioned:
arguably swapping from index funds like SPY to IVV are almost certainly a wash sale abuse (or at least, a transaction that should trigger the wash sale rules),
. However, I don't know what the IRS does about these cases. 

This got me to thinking. Imagine that you have a large taxable account (>$1 million). Instead of buying the S&P 500, you would be better off buying securities that mimic the index. If, for example, you have GM and it declines in value more than the index as a whole, you could sell it in exchange for Ford. This would get you some tax losses while at the same time mimicking the index. The reason for the large balance is to be able to buy the underlying securities in an appropriate ratio. I suppose it could be done with less. Also, I believe this is how some of those robo-advisers work. One of those companies told me that they would buy about 100 different securities with my holdings and re-balance occasionally. 

rated:
stanolshefski said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
canoeguy1 said:   
 
There are many ways to play this game perfectly safely. For example, sell Ford stock, buy GM stock. Sell IBM, buy Dell. Sell an S&P 500 fund, buy a Vanguard 500 Index fund.

  So if I understand this correctly, the "game" is if you've lost on A , you sell A, quickly buy B (where A~B) and get to deduct the losses of A from other gains in your portfolio. Does anyone here do this regularly?
BTW: the wash sale rule simply prevents people from gaming the system and selling funds to harvest capital losses. That sort of thing exacerbates bear markets.
seems like there's a giant loophole

  During the Great Recession, yes.
Now? Unless you're very good at losing money in a bull market, there's not a lot of losses to harvest.
BTW: This doesn't get rid of your tax obligations. It just means you can use your losses now instead of later, if that happens to help your tax situation.

  Through the miracle of stepped-up basis, some families may never realize the gain either.

  You make a good argument for keeping the estate tax or for doing away with the stepped-up basis.

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