Suspicious organic product and potential to sue and make money

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So I am in WalMart the other day and I saw this rice in a 2lbs bag. It says organic brown rice.
Next to it, same brand same size same texture same color exact identical same product but says brown rice (not organic)

Organic is 1.50/lbs non organic is like $1.00/lb

It gets better, I emailed the company who sells them. I asked where this rice is grown. They said Missisipi and Tennesse

Everyone knows these 2 states are known to use pesticides big time and their non organic products contain heavy metals that is why it is not recommended for pregnant women and kids

If I send their product to a local lab, and if it turns out it contains heavy metals, can I sue and make money? Or this is a false hope?

$1.50/lbs for certified organic brown rice is extremely cheap when you compare with other organic products out there

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fleetwoodmac said:   
If I send their product to a local lab, and if it turns out it contains heavy metals, can I sue and make money? Or this is a false hope?

 

 You can sue anyone for anything you want.  Whether or not you can make money depends...what are your damages?  Have you actually bought & consumed the product, or are you just being opportunistic?

If they mislabeled, it could be consumer fraud. If you have no personal injury, then it's likely that your damages would be $1 (the difference in price). But if you are in a state the permits attorney fees for consumer fraud claims, your lawyer would love you!

raringvt said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
If I send their product to a local lab, and if it turns out it contains heavy metals, can I sue and make money? Or this is a false hope?

 

 You can sue anyone for anything you want.  Whether or not you can make money depends...what are your damages?  Have you actually bought & consumed the product, or are you just being opportunistic?

  I bought the product organic and non organic. Same brand. There is no difference in looks in texture in taste

If the lab results show heavy metals in the organic product, what are my chances on making money on this?

Dude, you are on drug.

Organic doesn't mean what you think it means.

I wouldn't pay $12/hour for you, just saying.

looks like you can look it up here:

https://organic.ams.usda.gov/Integrity/

Much free time? Just as a start, you cannot tell if a food is organic based off appearance. So throw away that thinking about "same size same texture same color." Actually, throw away all thinking about this subject, it's a waste of time.

solarUS said:   looks like you can look it up here:

https://organic.ams.usda.gov/Integrity/

  
Yes I found the company and it seems like they are certified as I expected

So the question is how much of heavy metals are allowed in organic rice?

fleetwoodmac said:   
solarUS said:   looks like you can look it up here:

https://organic.ams.usda.gov/Integrity/

  
Yes I found the company and it seems like they are certified as I expected

So the question is how much of heavy metals are allowed in organic rice?

  Depends if you want Taarna the Taarakian to show up.

That's now getting into 'how much of this and how much of that', if you want to start a class action, get it tested.  You can also ask one of those 'organic testing trolls' who just love suing people to test it for you.

Is this trolling Thursday?

- The "organic" label doesn't regulate heavy metal content.

- "Everyone knows these 2 states are known to use pesticides big time" WTF?

- Again, "organic" label doesn't regular amount of pesticide. "natural" pesticide is allowed.

ith regard to pesticides, it must also be noted that organic farming, while using methods to minimize pests and the need for pesticides, still uses organic, rather than synthetic, pesticides. For example a rotenone-pyrethrin mixture is commonly used. Such pesticides are not as well studied as synthetic pesticides, often require more applications, and may persist longer in the soil. In fact the use of “natural” pesticides is nothing more than an appeal to the naturalistic fallacy – there really is no evidence for superior safety, and they have not been adequately studied.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/is-organic-food-more-healthful/

fleetwoodmac said:   
solarUS said:   looks like you can look it up here:

https://organic.ams.usda.gov/Integrity/

  
Yes I found the company and it seems like they are certified as I expected

So the question is how much of heavy metals are allowed in organic rice?

Ask the FDA
https://www.registrarcorp.com/fda-food/labeling/regulation?gclid...
 

Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.

stanolshefski said:   Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.
  you know what that means right?

That means the lab test result will come with heavy metals in it. And I can sue them?

imbatman said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
solarUS said:   looks like you can look it up here:

https://organic.ams.usda.gov/Integrity/

  
Yes I found the company and it seems like they are certified as I expected

So the question is how much of heavy metals are allowed in organic rice?

Ask the FDA
https://www.registrarcorp.com/fda-food/labeling/regulation?gclid=CNaV4fn5_tICFYGFaQoddzMG-A

  This is for the company selling the product not consumers like me

ZenNUTS said:   Is this trolling Thursday?

- The "organic" label doesn't regulate heavy metal content.

 

  
What?

If this is true, it is crazy!!!  I am hoping that you are nor correct on this

Theres no real reason to suspect any kind of scam here.

There is not reason to think the rice should look different.

$1.5 for the organic versus $1 for regular is still a 50% premium just for being organic. Thats not a trivial mark up. It probably has a profit premium above actual cost. Walmar has huge buying power so they can trim down the mark up for organic versions. I often see ~25-100% mark up on Krogers organic store brand versus regular non-organic.

Yes even farmers in Mississippi and Tennessee can make organic crops.

Organic is mostly a scam anyway.

Its always possible that any organic food is fraudulently labeled, that would be a good criminal racket.

fleetwoodmac said:   
stanolshefski said:   Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.
  you know what that means right?

That means the lab test result will come with heavy metals in it. And I can sue them?

  

Why do you think organic vs non-organic has anything to do with heavy metals??

They don't normally sprinkle iron and lead on non-organic crops.

... or am I missing something here about pesticides and heavy metal residue??
 

Apparently there are heavy metals in the inorganic pesticides :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15091407

But I don't know more than what I found with a 5 second google search.

fleetwoodmac said:   
stanolshefski said:   Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.
  you know what that means right?

That means the lab test result will come with heavy metals in it. And I can sue them?

  First of all, what exactly does the label say? There's a difference between "100% organic" and "organic" for instance. Second, even if they are identical, how do you know they both aren't organic? Think the company wouldn't label differently and sell them for 2 different prices? Look at brown eggs and white eggs.

Third, are you sure this isn't a "marketing statement" as opposed to a statement of quality/ingredients? I'm not sure what the term of art is, but there was a famous situation of a company trademarking some phrase and they were allowed to use it on the product because it was a trademark and thus a marketing statement, not an indication of the quality. Again, can't precisely remember the details but I remember thinking that you can't really trust labels because of that. FTR also not sure if that's still the rule.

fleetwoodmac said:   
ZenNUTS said:   Is this trolling Thursday?

- The "organic" label doesn't regulate heavy metal content.

 

  
What?

If this is true, it is crazy!!!  I am hoping that you are nor correct on this

  Why would an "organic" label be indicative of less heavy metals? That would be like saying that it's crazy that your fat free ice cream has sugar in it. One has nothing to do with the other.

and this :

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/green_room/2008...

"Scientists have known since the 1920s that organic fertilizers used by farmers to supplement conventional systems—composted animal manure, rock phosphates, fish emulsions, guano, wood ashes, etc.—further contaminate topsoil with varying concentrations of heavy metals. Organic advocates, who rely exclusively on these fertilizers, remain well aware of the problem today, although they rarely publicize the point."

Unless you eat 5 pounds of this a day, what do you care? Don't government studies frequently have to feed test rats 100 times the normal daily intake of an item being tested to produce any incidence of disease?

marginoferror said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
stanolshefski said:   Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.
  you know what that means right?

That means the lab test result will come with heavy metals in it. And I can sue them?

  First of all, what exactly does the label say? There's a difference between "100% organic" and "organic" for instance. Second, even if they are identical, how do you know they both aren't organic? Think the company wouldn't label differently and sell them for 2 different prices? Look at brown eggs and white eggs.

Third, are you sure this isn't a "marketing statement" as opposed to a statement of quality/ingredients? I'm not sure what the term of art is, but there was a famous situation of a company trademarking some phrase and they were allowed to use it on the product because it was a trademark and thus a marketing statement, not an indication of the quality. Again, can't precisely remember the details but I remember thinking that you can't really trust labels because of that. FTR also not sure if that's still the rule.

  

If it is just rice then theres only 1 ingredient and its either organic or its not.      They cant label it organic if its not organic.

If it was a processed food with multiple ingredients then "organic" versus "100% organic" vs "made with organic xxxxx" is possible if its only partially organic ingredients.

You can't have "marketing statements" on food that say its "organic".    Its not OK to call food "organic" unless its certified.

https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/organic-labeling-stand...


If its not food then other rules apply.   e.g. "organic" clothing or make up or ball point pens  is kind of meaningless and unregulated AFAIK.

 

stanolshefski said:   Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.
  
Other than criminal rackets, do you have any evidence of this??

I agree organic is a likely Target for scams and it happens.    But I haven't seen any evidence that it happens in any wide spread manner.     (maybe we wouldn't know if it did unless someone like OP has food tested with a mind to play amateur USDA / FDA inspector)


eta:  actually I can't even think of why a criminal racket would benefit from selling organic as non-organic...    the opposite is of course more likely
 

If it's still profitable to sell organic and non-organic prices, and expensive or pointless to grow non-organic crops, then why not. They get some additional sales at lower profit. Intel used to do the same kind of thing with CPUs, maybe they still do. It would be extraordinarily expensive to have separate manufacturing for CPUs that vary only by clock speed. When they started this, it was often pretty easy to configure an inexpensive CPU to run at a higher than advertised speed. They were offering identical product at different price points.

I agree it does seem unlikely, but I can believe it happens. Considering a lawsuit about it seems a lot crazier to me.

SlimTim said:   If it's still profitable to sell organic and non-organic prices, and expensive or pointless to grow non-organic crops, then why not. They get some additional sales at lower profit. Intel used to do the same kind of thing with CPUs, maybe they still do. It would be extraordinarily expensive to have separate manufacturing for CPUs that vary only by clock speed. When they started this, it was often pretty easy to configure an inexpensive CPU to run at a higher than advertised speed. They were offering identical product at different price points.

I agree it does seem unlikely, but I can believe it happens. Considering a lawsuit about it seems a lot crazier to me.

  

I imagine its possible, especially if the normal production processes for organic vs non-organic for the crop in question are marginal.    

I just haven't heard of it going that way.    I thought that pretty much all food production was normally using non-organic methods and that the organic methods were considerably more expensive.   


MisterBeefhead said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
ZenNUTS said:   Is this trolling Thursday?

- The "organic" label doesn't regulate heavy metal content.

 

  
What?

If this is true, it is crazy!!!  I am hoping that you are nor correct on this

  Why would an "organic" label be indicative of less heavy metals? That would be like saying that it's crazy that your fat free ice cream has sugar in it. One has nothing to do with the other.

  You kidding right?

Can you imagine organic rice or apple or whatever with mercury, cadmium and all other heavy metals in it? Does that make sense to you?

jerosen said:   Apparently there are heavy metals in the inorganic pesticides :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15091407

But I don't know more than what I found with a 5 second google search.

  It is because the end product rice is NOT ORGANIC

So non organic rice will obviously have heavy metals in it

marginoferror said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
stanolshefski said:   Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.
  you know what that means right?

That means the lab test result will come with heavy metals in it. And I can sue them?

  First of all, what exactly does the label say? There's a difference between "100% organic" and "organic" for instance. Second, even if they are identical, how do you know they both aren't organic? Think the company wouldn't label differently and sell them for 2 different prices? Look at brown eggs and white eggs.

Third, are you sure this isn't a "marketing statement" as opposed to a statement of quality/ingredients? I'm not sure what the term of art is, but there was a famous situation of a company trademarking some phrase and they were allowed to use it on the product because it was a trademark and thus a marketing statement, not an indication of the quality. Again, can't precisely remember the details but I remember thinking that you can't really trust labels because of that. FTR also not sure if that's still the rule.

  One package has a USDA ORGANIC logo on it

the other one does not

The real question which I could not find the answer for, what is the threshold for organic rice to have heavy metals? Is that 0% or 10%? I am not able to find what is allowed in organic rice in terms of heavy metals by FDA

jerosen said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
stanolshefski said:   Organic is sort of a scam. In many products there's no difference at all, other than the organic version being much more expensive. As a matter of fact, sometimes the regular product is actually organic without a premium and there's an organic option that costs significantly more.
  you know what that means right?

That means the lab test result will come with heavy metals in it. And I can sue them?

  

Why do you think organic vs non-organic has anything to do with heavy metals??

They don't normally sprinkle iron and lead on non-organic crops.

... or am I missing something here about pesticides and heavy metal residue??

  Yes you are missing huge

Rice especially the ones from Mississipi and Tennesse known to have heavy metals in it. It is heavily fertilized that is synthetic fertilizer not organic

fleetwoodmac said:   
MisterBeefhead said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
ZenNUTS said:   Is this trolling Thursday?

- The "organic" label doesn't regulate heavy metal content.

 

  
What?

If this is true, it is crazy!!!  I am hoping that you are nor correct on this

  Why would an "organic" label be indicative of less heavy metals? That would be like saying that it's crazy that your fat free ice cream has sugar in it. One has nothing to do with the other.

  You kidding right?

Can you imagine organic rice or apple or whatever with mercury, cadmium and all other heavy metals in it? Does that make sense to you?

  

No they are not kidding.

Organic label has nothing to do with metal content.

FDA regulates heavy metal in general.   But theres no special rules about metal content for Organic label.

 


jerosen said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
MisterBeefhead said:   
fleetwoodmac said:   
ZenNUTS said:   Is this trolling Thursday?

- The "organic" label doesn't regulate heavy metal content.

 

  
What?

If this is true, it is crazy!!!  I am hoping that you are nor correct on this

  Why would an "organic" label be indicative of less heavy metals? That would be like saying that it's crazy that your fat free ice cream has sugar in it. One has nothing to do with the other.

  You kidding right?

Can you imagine organic rice or apple or whatever with mercury, cadmium and all other heavy metals in it? Does that make sense to you?

  

No they are not kidding.

Organic label has nothing to do with metal content.

FDA regulates heavy metal in general.   But theres no special rules about metal content for Organic label.

 

  I am sorry I do not believe this

What is the meaning of buying organic produce if it contains heavy metals? Something is wrong with your info

fleetwoodmac said:     Yes you are missing huge

Rice especially the ones from Mississipi and Tennesse known to have heavy metals in it. It is heavily fertilized that is synthetic fertilizer not organic

  You have a source of this fantasy of yours? 

On your 2nd assertion "It is heavily fertilized that is synthetic fertilizer not organic", assuming it's true then it should have less pollutant in there.  Do you have any idea why?  Do you know what is "organic" fertilizer?

fleetwoodmac said:   
 
  I am sorry I do not believe this

What is the meaning of buying organic produce if it contains heavy metals? Something is wrong with your info

  Can you spend 10 minutes just educate yourself?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_certification

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/is-organic-food-more-healthful/

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/organic-pesticides/

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/new-organic-farming...

Don't understand the obsession with heavy metals. I'd be more concerned with fat, sugar and calories.

pietromoon said:   Let us know the results

http://www.eurofinsus.com/food-testing/testing-services/food-aut...

  I called them and I am shocked

They only charge $100 for testing for top 4 heavy metals

mercury cadmium arsenic and something else

This is really cheap

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