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rated:
Hello,

I am currently evaluating a couple different job options and would like some advice from my fellow FWs.

Option A - Current position
W2
39/hr; designated as an FT employee, however, hours are not guaranteed and are based on the census of patients.  Some weeks I receive full-time work, others I only receive 3-4 hours per day, have averaged 6 hours per day over last 5 months
PTO ~ 2 weeks; 5 paid holidays per yr
Employer paid STD 500 per week after 15 days; 65k life insurance, Half medical premium; High-deductible Plan 216 per month for med, dental, and vision
Licensure and CEU reimbursement 500/yr
401k match 10% match after 1 yr service

Option B
W-2
Salary $59,937 for 186 days contract (school position)
10 Sick days per year
No PTO; several breaks throughout year, winter, fall, Spring, and summer breaks
Employer Paid Life Insurance 60k
State retirement - 11% taken out each check, employer matches day one, and vested following 10 years of service 
Student loan forgiveness after 10 years ~50k in student loans 
Employer Paid half medical - 439 per month for medical, dental, vision; High deductible plan, employer provides 1600 HSA contribution 
No STD, LTD, or licensure/CEU reimbursement 

Option C
1099 
63/hr; 180-day contract 8 hours per day 
All expenses OOP - Medical, Dental, Vision - 1200/month for family; High deductible plan
LTD 40/month
Life Insurance 300k - 17 per month
Licensure/CEU ~300 every two years

With all options, I also provide in-home services nd work every other weekend for additional income of ~10k per year.  Any thoughts or opinions, constructive of otherwise, would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

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rated:
Would you expect to be in this job 10 years? What state is it? The pension for option B may be worth quite a bit if you're there long term.

Option A doesn't look as good as either B or C.

I think I'd likely go with B if you're planning long term or C otherwise.

rated:
Thanks for the reply Jerosen. That is the dilemma I am facing right now. I honestly don't know if I could commit to the position for 10 years at this point, but I could see it as a possibility based on the retirement and student loan benefits which would add ~6k per year in benefits if I were to stay for the full ten years. I am in AZ.

rated:
What do A or B have that can knockout C's much higher pay?

A is out, due to unpredictable hours and no lucrative offsets.

B might trump C, if you knew now that you'd put in a decade for both pension vesting and loan forgiveness. Pessimistically, I'd assume that those 2 benefits are offered, since many people don't actually do the 10 years. This allows gov't to offer much lower pay now AND avoid giving you nice benefits later. It might also trap you in a sunk-cost fallacy. Something much better might come along in 60 months. But you might stay put, not wanting to have "wasted" those 5 years.

I'd go with C. Unfortunately, I can't predict what my life will look like in 3 years, let alone 10.

rated:
Never pick a job because of the pension. No guarantee you will be at the job long enough to be vested.

rated:
If family is healthy go for option C as seems better even w OOP costs 

rated:
yacovoy said:   What do A or B have that can knockout C's much higher pay?

A is out, due to unpredictable hours and no lucrative offsets.

B might trump C, if you knew now that you'd put in a decade for both pension vesting and loan forgiveness. Pessimistically, I'd assume that those 2 benefits are offered, since many people don't actually do the 10 years. This allows gov't to offer much lower pay now AND avoid giving you nice benefits later. It might also trap you in a sunk-cost fallacy. Something much better might come along in 60 months. But you might stay put, not wanting to have "wasted" those 5 years.

I'd go with C. Unfortunately, I can't predict what my life will look like in 3 years, let alone 10.

  
C is 1099, so it isn't worth as much as it seems.  By the time you get double taxed and pay for insurance its worth a lot less.   That is, BTW, what we call a 1000 hour contract from the sound of it.  (40 hours and 25 weeks)  If you think it will automatically be extended it is still hard to beat.    I would value it at $50/hr due to taxes and lack of benefits.  How extreme are the OOP expenses?  Last gig I had sounded good until I found out (the hard way) how much rents were in Charlotte.  It certainly beats your existing job, as long as you think it will keep being renewed.

One question about B though, is that  REALLY an annual 60K for 189 days of work out of 365 on W2 (you mention contract as well)?  If so you will have a lot of other time to make additional money.  Who needs PTO/Vacation when you get 176 days off?    If you think you can do a good job of hustling for work in summer/Spring it is do-able.   The ten year vesting period isn't as bad as it seems - that is just for the employer match.

Really I think it comes down to B vs C -- and your views on quality of life.  C is more money and NO time off.  (trust me, that is how it REALLY works -- unless you have external factors you won't ever want to take "unpaid" vacation)  B is less money and TONs of time off.   Compensation really seems about the same charted against the hours worked once you add benefits.

---
BTW, your current job works out to around the same as the state job once you adjust it for 6 hours a day average on an annual basis.  The time off is just in larger blocks.

 

rated:
Is everything else equal?

If these are in different cities the cost of living matters. Employer stability could be a factor too.

rated:
RedWolfe01 said:   
yacovoy said:   What do A or B have that can knockout C's much higher pay?

A is out, due to unpredictable hours and no lucrative offsets.

B might trump C, if you knew now that you'd put in a decade for both pension vesting and loan forgiveness. Pessimistically, I'd assume that those 2 benefits are offered, since many people don't actually do the 10 years. This allows gov't to offer much lower pay now AND avoid giving you nice benefits later. It might also trap you in a sunk-cost fallacy. Something much better might come along in 60 months. But you might stay put, not wanting to have "wasted" those 5 years.

I'd go with C. Unfortunately, I can't predict what my life will look like in 3 years, let alone 10.

  
C is 1099, so it isn't worth as much as it seems.  By the time you get double taxed and pay for insurance its worth a lot less.   That is, BTW, what we call a 1000 hour contract from the sound of it.  (40 hours and 25 weeks)  If you think it will automatically be extended it is still hard to beat.    I would value it at $50/hr due to taxes and lack of benefits.  How extreme are the OOP expenses?  Last gig I had sounded good until I found out (the hard way) how much rents were in Charlotte.  It certainly beats your existing job, as long as you think it will keep being renewed.

One question about B though, is that  REALLY an annual 60K for 189 days of work out of 365 on W2 (you mention contract as well)?  If so you will have a lot of other time to make additional money.  Who needs PTO/Vacation when you get 176 days off?    If you think you can do a good job of hustling for work in summer/Spring it is do-able.   The ten year vesting period isn't as bad as it seems - that is just for the employer match.

Really I think it comes down to B vs C -- and your views on quality of life.  C is more money and NO time off.  (trust me, that is how it REALLY works -- unless you have external factors you won't ever want to take "unpaid" vacation)  B is less money and TONs of time off.   Compensation really seems about the same charted against the hours worked once you add benefits.

---
BTW, your current job works out to around the same as the state job once you adjust it for 6 hours a day average on an annual basis.  The time off is just in larger blocks.

 

  
Thanks for the reply! I should have clarified that Option C is also for a school district, I would just not be an employee of the district but on contract for the school year, so I would have the same time off as option B.  Districts have a hard time filling position for all schools d/t the lower salary they offer and thus in my area they will always need to pursue contract companies at some point.  

rated:
jerosen said:   Is everything else equal?

If these are in different cities the cost of living matters. Employer stability could be a factor too.

 
 Thanks for the reply!  All else is equal.  Position A is 50 minutes from my home and B and C are about 20 minutes away.

rated:
airelpaso3 said:   
RedWolfe01 said:   
yacovoy said:   What do A or B have that can knockout C's much higher pay?

A is out, due to unpredictable hours and no lucrative offsets.

B might trump C, if you knew now that you'd put in a decade for both pension vesting and loan forgiveness. Pessimistically, I'd assume that those 2 benefits are offered, since many people don't actually do the 10 years. This allows gov't to offer much lower pay now AND avoid giving you nice benefits later. It might also trap you in a sunk-cost fallacy. Something much better might come along in 60 months. But you might stay put, not wanting to have "wasted" those 5 years.

I'd go with C. Unfortunately, I can't predict what my life will look like in 3 years, let alone 10.

  
C is 1099, so it isn't worth as much as it seems.  By the time you get double taxed and pay for insurance its worth a lot less.   That is, BTW, what we call a 1000 hour contract from the sound of it.  (40 hours and 25 weeks)  If you think it will automatically be extended it is still hard to beat.    I would value it at $50/hr due to taxes and lack of benefits.  How extreme are the OOP expenses?  Last gig I had sounded good until I found out (the hard way) how much rents were in Charlotte.  It certainly beats your existing job, as long as you think it will keep being renewed.

One question about B though, is that  REALLY an annual 60K for 189 days of work out of 365 on W2 (you mention contract as well)?  If so you will have a lot of other time to make additional money.  Who needs PTO/Vacation when you get 176 days off?    If you think you can do a good job of hustling for work in summer/Spring it is do-able.   The ten year vesting period isn't as bad as it seems - that is just for the employer match.

Really I think it comes down to B vs C -- and your views on quality of life.  C is more money and NO time off.  (trust me, that is how it REALLY works -- unless you have external factors you won't ever want to take "unpaid" vacation)  B is less money and TONs of time off.   Compensation really seems about the same charted against the hours worked once you add benefits.

---
BTW, your current job works out to around the same as the state job once you adjust it for 6 hours a day average on an annual basis.  The time off is just in larger blocks.

 

  
Thanks for the reply! I should have clarified that Option C is also for a school district, I would just not be an employee of the district but on contract for the school year, so I would have the same time off as option B.  Districts have a hard time filling position for all schools d/t the lower salary they offer and thus in my area they will always need to pursue contract companies at some point.  

  
Ah, that does change the math then.  It is essentially the same money, you realize?  189 days, assuming 8 hour days at $50/hr (after taxes) is a bit over $75k which is pretty close to a $60K when you add the state benefits.  If you think you will be staying long enough to vest then the B job is a no brainer.  Normally when someone says 180 day contract it is a 1000 hours and you renew at 5.5-6 months.  (so 2000 hours in JUST SHORT of a year -- after which you usually cannot stay as a 1099 for the same job and employer)  They assume you will take up to 2 weeks of unpaid time off per contract.  You mean 180 working days in a year which is 1440 hours versus a standard work year of 2080.  189 is 1512.

B is worth 10600 ($750/mo less x 12 months plus 1600) more just due to the HSA and health premium difference, which puts it over $70K. 

I don't think there is enough difference to matter either way -- even assuming you manage to Vest it is only another $6600 or so per year plus compounding.  That puts it a few thousand over instead of a few thousand under -- not even counting other benefits that are likely there.

The 1099 is only a one year option, you could take it and see how you like it -- the next year you would probably have to take a permanent job anyhow due to IRS regulations.  

rated:
Do you really want to be a school nurse (option B, I presume)?

Over the long term your clinical skills and ability to transition to other positions may be compromised by taking such a job. Having said this, if it's your passion, then go for it!

Job security will be much better in option B than in either A or C.  Also, you can work in the summertime to supplement your income if needed.

rated:
phisher4 said:   Do you really want to be a school nurse (option B, I presume)?

Over the long term your clinical skills and ability to transition to other positions may be compromised by taking such a job. Having said this, if it's your passion, then go for it!

Job security will be much better in option B than in either A or C.  Also, you can work in the summertime to supplement your income if needed.

  

OP did not say they are a nurse.    Could be a therapist where many jobs are in the schools.

rated:
jerosen said:   
phisher4 said:   Do you really want to be a school nurse (option B, I presume)?

Over the long term your clinical skills and ability to transition to other positions may be compromised by taking such a job. Having said this, if it's your passion, then go for it!

Job security will be much better in option B than in either A or C.  Also, you can work in the summertime to supplement your income if needed.

  

OP did not say they are a nurse.    Could be a therapist where many jobs are in the schools.

Yup, I agree -- therapist, nurse, counselor, psychologist, fighter pilot, or ninja.  Any of these are possible.

But in all sincerity, I do understand why OP wants to remain somewhat vague.  

I love seeing these questions/answers.  The FWF community is an amazing one!

rated:
If you create a pass thru LLC corp and with 1099 in business name not in your name, you can safely use the business to write off lot of things.
Then you could use lesser parts to go via Payroll and take rest as Dividends/Profits.
This will allow you to have more NET income with respect to various taxes, especially the double payroll taxation, you will have otherwise.

You can also use SEP IRA and employ your children if any to further reduce tax burden.
 

rated:
phisher4 said:   Do you really want to be a school nurse (option B, I presume)?

Over the long term your clinical skills and ability to transition to other positions may be compromised by taking such a job. Having said this, if it's your passion, then go for it!

Job security will be much better in option B than in either A or C.  Also, you can work in the summertime to supplement your income if needed.

  
B and C are the same job, essentially.  Just different terms of employment.

rated:
Thanks for all the replies everyone! I am leaning towards option C at the moment. I already have an LLC set up through a prior position that forced all employees to switch to 1099s. My wife has previously worked as a 1099 as well so we are pretty well versed in deductions available to ICs. Thanks again for all the input!

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