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rated:
I have been looking at getting a new loan for a new car with a lower interest rate.  I don't want to refinance with the car I have because, well I hate the car...and I can't because I'm upside down.  I have noticed on a lot of credit apps/pre quals that they don't ask about trades in or removing the existing loan. 

1) Is there a lender that includes this in part of their application, short of going to a dealer and telling them?
2) Any specific lenders that work with "good" credit, somewhere between 600-650.  I have tried Capital One and Lending Tree, both of which can't pre qual me.

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
Until you know how the hole was dug, you cant know what will cause him to keep digging deeper.

Glitch99 (Jun. 15, 2017 @ 5:54p) |

Make double payments for ~6 months or so to get trade value = to loan value then reassess. Hopefully you get scores clos... (more)

motsuka (Jun. 15, 2017 @ 9:38p) |

Why do you hate the car? Is there something wrong with it, or do you just hate it because it represents a financial alba... (more)

meade18 (Jun. 19, 2017 @ 8:28a) |

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rated:
600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.

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Is it too early in the week for a troll post?

rated:
Look for places that say if you have a job you will be approved for a loan. They'll be happy to take your car as trade and sell you a new car, putting you even further upside down.

You'll get what you want. At a price.

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forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.


How would I be deeper in debt if I get a used car that's less $$, plus my trade, plus money down.

rated:
It'll be helpful if we knew what car you currently have, and what you're considering to purchase. What is the car for? Pleasure? Work? Simply transportation? How long is your commute?

If you have bad credit, the obvious suggestion is to purchase a used car in cash that you would be okay with until your credit is better.

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tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.


How would I be deeper in debt if I get a used car that's less $$, plus my trade, plus money down.

  You could be deeper in debt relative to the asset you own.  

Say you have a car that's worth (resale value) $15k, but you owe $18k on it.  So, you're $3k upside down.

You go to a dealer and buy a car for $12k.  You trade in your existing car (getting $13k for it, since you won't get full resale value), and put $1k down.  So, your debt ($18k) goes up to $30k because of the car purchase, but then comes down to $16k because of the money down and trade-in.  Now, you owe $16k on a car that's worth $12k, so you're $4k upside down.  

 

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tillosguy said:   forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.


How would I be deeper in debt if I get a used car that's less $$, plus my trade, plus money down.


Math.

Lets say you have $10k car, $12k loan. You're down $2k

You trade that car in for $9k, buy a car worth $5k for $6k because dealers have to make a living too. You also owe the state $500 in assorted fees and taxes.

So let's total it up. $3k negative equity rollover, $6k for car, $500 for taxes. Your loan is $9500. You have a $5k car. Your down $4500

Poof.

Oh and I went easy on the numbers. Most dealers will not give you this good of a deal unless you know what you're doing and fight with them.

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forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.

  I wouldn't say it's bad credit. I'd say that with some work, one can be in that 650-700 area rather quickly. "Bad" credit is under the 600-ish mark. Back when I was around 18-19, I had about a 650ish score due to utilization, simply because I had a single $5k card and I would have about $2k report monthly. Once I started getting more cards, thereby increasing my overall limit, that $2k reporting every month started to have less and less of an impact, and thus my score went up. 

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scrouds said:   
tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.


How would I be deeper in debt if I get a used car that's less $$, plus my trade, plus money down.


Math.

Lets say you have $10k car, $12k loan. You're down $2k

You trade that car in for $9k, buy a car worth $5k for $6k because dealers have to make a living too. You also owe the state $500 in assorted fees and taxes.

So let's total it up. $3k negative equity rollover, $6k for car, $500 for taxes. Your loan is $9500. You have a $5k car. Your down $4500

Poof.

Oh and I went easy on the numbers. Most dealers will not give you this good of a deal unless you know what you're doing and fight with them.

  And most banks won't give you a near 200% LTV loan on a $5k car.

rated:
jaytrader said:   
forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.

  I wouldn't say it's bad credit. I'd say that with some work, one can be in that 650-700 area rather quickly.
 

  It depends on why it's in the 600-650 range to begin with.

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cestmoi123 said:   
tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.


How would I be deeper in debt if I get a used car that's less $$, plus my trade, plus money down.

  You could be deeper in debt relative to the asset you own.  

Say you have a car that's worth (resale value) $15k, but you owe $18k on it.  So, you're $3k upside down.

You go to a dealer and buy a car for $12k.  You trade in your existing car (getting $13k for it, since you won't get full resale value), and put $1k down.  So, your debt ($18k) goes up to $30k because of the car purchase, but then comes down to $16k because of the money down and trade-in.  Now, you owe $16k on a car that's worth $12k, so you're $4k upside down.  

 

  Dont forget that to start with, in addition to being $3k upside down, he also has $1k cash in the bank.

I do see his point, in that example he starts $17k in debt ($18k loan plus $1k cash), and ends up $16k in debt ($16k loan plus $0 cash).  He may be sacrificing $3k worth of car to retire that $1k debt, but he is in fact left with less debt. 

Whether this would be a good idea depends purely on why the first car is worth more than the second car.  If it's a $15k car because of "bling", and the $12k second car is actually newer with a longer remaining lifespan, then it might be worth making the trade.  If a car is a transportation device owned purely for the utility, $3k worth of bells and whistles really isnt worth $3k to you so the loss is negligible.

rated:
tillosguy said:   I have been looking at getting a new loan for a new car with a lower interest rate.  I don't want to refinance with the car I have because, well I hate the car...and I can't because I'm upside down.  I have noticed on a lot of credit apps/pre quals that they don't ask about trades in or removing the existing loan. 

1) Is there a lender that includes this in part of their application, short of going to a dealer and telling them?
2) Any specific lenders that work with "good" credit, somewhere between 600-650.  I have tried Capital One and Lending Tree, both of which can't pre qual me.

  
Did... Did you just come into a finance forum and ask the question "How can I dig myself deeper and deeper into debt, poverty, and overall dissatisfying life"?  

Wow, that's... that's a record. 

rated:
tillosguy said:   forbin4040 said:   600-650 isn't 'good credit' it's bad credit.

Just because you 'hate' a car doesn't mean you need to get deeper in debt over it.
How would I be deeper in debt if I get a used car that's less $$, plus my trade, plus money down.
"I have been looking at getting a new loan for a new car"
  

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tillosguy said:   ....2) ....I have tried Capital One and Lending Tree, both of which can't pre qual me.
 

  Asked & answered. Close this. Next.

rated:
Here's my existing situation:

Current Vehicle: $12,500- Owe
Trade In: $8,000 (Written Offer)
Money Down: $1,500

"New" Vehicle
Price: $12,200
KBB Value: $8,000-9,500

Obviously the smartest decision is to keep my current vehicle and just pay it down. But interest is killing me.

rated:
tillosguy said:   Here's my existing situation:

Current Vehicle: $12,500- Owe
Trade In: $8,000 (Written Offer)
Money Down: $1,500

"New" Vehicle
Price: $12,200
KBB Value: $8,000-9,500

Obviously the smartest decision is to keep my current vehicle and just pay it down. But interest is killing me.

  
Uhhhh and getting the "New" Vehicle isn't going to have interest payments? Seriously, the questions you're asking sound like the equivalent of "How can I shoot myself in the foot in order to maximize pain?"

rated:
tillosguy said:   Here's my existing situation:

Current Vehicle: $12,500- Owe
Trade In: $8,000 (Written Offer)
Money Down: $1,500

"New" Vehicle
Price: $12,200
KBB Value: $8,000-9,500

Obviously the smartest decision is to keep my current vehicle and just pay it down. But interest is killing me.

  Thank you for adding detail... it's very helpful.

Regardless, most of the advice on this board will be:
1. Sell the car private party for $9,000.
2. Pay off the loan. You'll need another $2,000 for that.
3. Buy a Crown Vic for $2,000 free and clear.
4. Save $12,200 if you want to buy the other car.

rated:
tillosguy said:   Here's my existing situation:

Current Vehicle: $12,500- Owe
Trade In: $8,000 (Written Offer)
Money Down: $1,500

"New" Vehicle
Price: $12,200
KBB Value: $8,000-9,500

Obviously the smartest decision is to keep my current vehicle and just pay it down. But interest is killing me.

  Interest on a $15,200 debt is going to "kill" you even more than the interest on your current $12,500 debt.  

rated:
Glitch99 said:   
tillosguy said:   Here's my existing situation:

Current Vehicle: $12,500- Owe
Trade In: $8,000 (Written Offer)
Money Down: $1,500

"New" Vehicle
Price: $12,200
KBB Value: $8,000-9,500

Obviously the smartest decision is to keep my current vehicle and just pay it down. But interest is killing me.

  Interest on a $15,200 debt is going to "kill" you even more than the interest on your current $12,500 debt.  

  But OP will 'like' his car for a few months...then start looking for ways to get rid of it too.

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Have you tried the private market to sell your car? What about Carmax? Might want to shop around for the best offer on your vehicle.

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RussellJohnson said:   Have you tried the private market to sell your car? What about Carmax? Might want to shop around for the best offer on your vehicle.

Yes private sale has come to mind but no one is gonna buy a car with no title in hand and I still owe.

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forbin4040 said:   Glitch99 said:   
tillosguy said:   Here's my existing situation:

Current Vehicle: $12,500- Owe
Trade In: $8,000 (Written Offer)
Money Down: $1,500

"New" Vehicle
Price: $12,200
KBB Value: $8,000-9,500

Obviously the smartest decision is to keep my current vehicle and just pay it down. But interest is killing me.

  Interest on a $15,200 debt is going to "kill" you even more than the interest on your current $12,500 debt.  

  But OP will 'like' his car for a few months...then start looking for ways to get rid of it too.


I see by the short time I've been in here people love to personally attack. Also can you show me where I said I has the car a few months?

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tillosguy said:   I don't want to refinance with the car I have because, well I hate the car...What brand/model of car and why do you hate it?
  

rated:
tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   
Glitch99 said:   
tillosguy said:   Here's my existing situation:

Current Vehicle: $12,500- Owe
Trade In: $8,000 (Written Offer)
Money Down: $1,500

"New" Vehicle
Price: $12,200
KBB Value: $8,000-9,500

Obviously the smartest decision is to keep my current vehicle and just pay it down. But interest is killing me.

  Interest on a $15,200 debt is going to "kill" you even more than the interest on your current $12,500 debt.  

  But OP will 'like' his car for a few months...then start looking for ways to get rid of it too.


I see by the short time I've been in here people love to personally attack. Also can you show me where I said I has the car a few months?

People here at Fatwallet do not sugarcoat their opinions, but not telling you what you want to hear is not a personal attack.  In your short time here, you havent seen the literal hundreds of others exactly like you, that never fail to end up admitting details exactly like what you are being called out for.  Sure there are other possible reasons, but when you are over $4k underwater on a $8k vehicle, the most likely reason is that it's a relatively recent purchase and/or you tolled significant negative equity into that loan too.  So you can either run off pouting about not getting blind encouragement, or you can continue to engage in conversation and discussion about your situation to find out your best course of action.

rated:
tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   
 
  But OP will 'like' his car for a few months...then start looking for ways to get rid of it too.


I see by the short time I've been in here people love to personally attack. Also can you show me where I said I has the car a few months?

  That's not a personal attack.
You said 'I want to sell a car I hate'.  I have had cars I hate, and I paid a pretty price to unload them when they were perfectly good cars but my mind was making up reasons to sell them (oh the window doesn't go down, oh the radio shorted out, etc)

Selling a car because you hate it isn't a proper reason.  It's an emotional one.
So once you get your next car, you will probably 'hate' it too after a few months.  

Never sell your car over emotions.
Never get deeper in debt for a lesser car

I never 'personally attacked you'  I said that you will probably hate your next car in a few months.
Calling you names, that's an attack, I was stating my opinion of what your situation will be soon.

rated:
forbin4040 said:   
tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   
 
  But OP will 'like' his car for a few months...then start looking for ways to get rid of it too.


I see by the short time I've been in here people love to personally attack. Also can you show me where I said I has the car a few months?

  That's not a personal attack.
You said 'I want to sell a car I hate'.  I have had cars I hate, and I paid a pretty price to unload them when they were perfectly good cars but my mind was making up reasons to sell them (oh the window doesn't go down, oh the radio shorted out, etc)

Selling a car because you hate it isn't a proper reason.  It's an emotional one.
So once you get your next car, you will probably 'hate' it too after a few months.  

Never sell your car over emotions.
Never get deeper in debt for a lesser car

I never 'personally attacked you'  I said that you will probably hate your next car in a few months.
Calling you names, that's an attack, I was stating my opinion of what your situation will be soon.

  Since you can tell the future, and all that. I don't think you personally attacked OP, but what does your opinion of where they may or may not be in a few months matter with regard to the discussion at hand?

A lot of people say, as Glitch rightfully said, they don't sugarcoat their opinions here. However, the fact that sometimes opinions come out of the woodwork for no apparent reason other than the subconscious FWF bandwagoning is pretty discouraging. OP wants help, is providing details, etc. They didn't ask for your judgemental attitude about what their future holds. You don't know the OP (I assume) and are lacing into them because you think they'll go buy a car and hate it after a few months. Step back and ask yourself, what good does that do here? If anything, it puts OPs like this on the defense--as clearly demonstrated. Your opinion of the matter at hand will be written off because OP thinks you personally attacked them.

On the flip side, I do realize that OP could be what we've seen before. Not saying they're not, or couldn't be. But we don't know if they will or not, and thus we should save our judgement if we expect respect and appreciation of our advice. 
 

rated:
Well JT, instead of rebutting me, can you give OP some kind of constructive response to his valid question and help him?

rated:
jaytrader said:   
forbin4040 said:   
tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   
 
  But OP will 'like' his car for a few months...then start looking for ways to get rid of it too.


I see by the short time I've been in here people love to personally attack. Also can you show me where I said I has the car a few months?

  That's not a personal attack.
You said 'I want to sell a car I hate'.  I have had cars I hate, and I paid a pretty price to unload them when they were perfectly good cars but my mind was making up reasons to sell them (oh the window doesn't go down, oh the radio shorted out, etc)

Selling a car because you hate it isn't a proper reason.  It's an emotional one.
So once you get your next car, you will probably 'hate' it too after a few months.  

Never sell your car over emotions.
Never get deeper in debt for a lesser car

I never 'personally attacked you'  I said that you will probably hate your next car in a few months.
Calling you names, that's an attack, I was stating my opinion of what your situation will be soon.

  Since you can tell the future, and all that. I don't think you personally attacked OP, but what does your opinion of where they may or may not be in a few months matter with regard to the discussion at hand?

A lot of people say, as Glitch rightfully said, they don't sugarcoat their opinions here. However, the fact that sometimes opinions come out of the woodwork for no apparent reason other than the subconscious FWF bandwagoning is pretty discouraging. OP wants help, is providing details, etc. They didn't ask for your judgemental attitude about what their future holds. You don't know the OP (I assume) and are lacing into them because you think they'll go buy a car and hate it after a few months. Step back and ask yourself, what good does that do here? If anything, it puts OPs like this on the defense--as clearly demonstrated. Your opinion of the matter at hand will be written off because OP thinks you personally attacked them.

On the flip side, I do realize that OP could be what we've seen before. Not saying they're not, or couldn't be. But we don't know if they will or not, and thus we should save our judgement if we expect respect and appreciation of our advice. 

  There's no judgement, it's a reasonable conclusion.  With a loan balance 50% higher than the value of the car, he either already made the same knee-jerk decision when acquiring the current car, or it's well short of the timeframe he expected to keep it when initially making the purchase.  Unless OP explains how he got into this situation, or at least acknowledges past mistakes he's learned from, there's no reason to think this won't happen again.

rated:
I was about $10k upside down on a vehicle because I moved and put about double the annual "normal" mileage on it, then the transmission busted and needed to be repaired. I didn't see the point in repairing it, so I made a deal where I put $5k down and rolled the other $5k into the new loan on a newer vehicle. Sometimes "life happens" and it's not always someone's fault that they're in the position they're in. But again, what does it matter? I don't see the point in demanding (or implying a demand) that OP explains their situation. Why not take the inputs as given, instead of jumping to conclusions? Maybe the situation they're in now wasn't a mistake, but simply due to some unforeseen circumstance. But again, it doesn't matter how OP got here, all that matters is they're here, with a problem, and are asking for help. They aren't asking for you to judge them and tell them they're going to do the same stupid thing again, if that was even the case.

I guess some people take it upon themselves to be behavioral specialists, like some take it upon themselves to patrol the highway in their 1999 Honda Civic because "people drive too fast." Full disclosure: I don't care what OP does or doesn't do, did or didn't do, or how they behave or spend their money. It's their money, and if they can't do simple math (with regard to rolling negative equity over into a new loan), then that's on them. All we can do is help show them the way. As they say, you can lead a horse to water...

rated:
forbin4040 said:   Well JT, instead of rebutting me, can you give OP some kind of constructive response to his valid question and help him?
  OP answered himself, when he said CapOne and LendingTree declined (with regard to a new loan with a lower rate). That post, I greened.

I also mentioned upthread that a 200% LTV is going to be hard to get a loan for, in response to someone else's example. 

Also, not sure why you're being so argumentative. I am not trying to pick a fight with you over the internet (lol), I'm just trying to help keep things in perspective. In all honesty, OP's proposed situation isn't really all that bad. They're basically trading a car for another car, with a very similar loan amount, hoping to get a lower interest rate. Really, the net result is a lower interest rate. A side benefit is that OP gets out of a car they hate and into something they don't.

rated:
Where did he say he was going to get a better interest rate? He just says the interest is killing him.
He makes no mention of his old interest rate, his new interest rate.

His current car is 4k underwater, he wants a loan on a different car that starts 4k underwater, that means he needs an 8k personal loan just to get the next car. (Your 200% LTV you mentioned). No one is going to give a good interest rate on 200% LTV. If you really know lenders that give good interest rate on 650 credit and 200% LTV, please share.

But 'hate' is where I have 'issues', emotions make people do wrong things and I'm hoping that pointing this out will help OP make a good decision. If OP says it's in the shop every 6 months (like a used Range Rover) or someone keeps trying to steal the car because it's a classic Mustang, ok then I will agree with 'hate'.

rated:
tillosguy said:   I have been looking at getting a new loan for a new car with a lower interest rate. 
  forbin, it's in the OP. I'm not saying OP will be successful, but that was the intent.

rated:
ok line 1 of my last post is wrong. (Wonder how I missed that).

Well going 200% LTV and get a lower rate? I don't see how that's possible short of he boosting that credit score back to 800.

rated:
forbin4040 said:   
tillosguy said:   
forbin4040 said:   
 
  But OP will 'like' his car for a few months...then start looking for ways to get rid of it too.


I see by the short time I've been in here people love to personally attack. Also can you show me where I said I has the car a few months?

  That's not a personal attack.
You said 'I want to sell a car I hate'.  I have had cars I hate, and I paid a pretty price to unload them when they were perfectly good cars but my mind was making up reasons to sell them (oh the window doesn't go down, oh the radio shorted out, etc)

Selling a car because you hate it isn't a proper reason.  It's an emotional one.
So once you get your next car, you will probably 'hate' it too after a few months.  

Never sell your car over emotions.
Never get deeper in debt for a lesser car

I never 'personally attacked you'  I said that you will probably hate your next car in a few months.
Calling you names, that's an attack, I was stating my opinion of what your situation will be soon.

  Getting rid of a car because one hates it may be a emotional reason, but still a valid one.  If that wasn't the case you should tell the millions of other people who trade in or buy other vehicles to keep what they have. Each persons reasons will be different then yours, and its really situational.  They could "hate" the car for a million reasons, does that always make it unjustified to look for something else? 

rated:
Just to get a little more clarity on my position, I have had my car now for about a year and a half. I have made payments on time every month since then which has greatly helped my credit. I actually have paid more then the monthly amount to get it paid off quicker. My interest is double digits, and is quite embarrassing. Although I would assume my interest would remain double digits with a new loan as well. I realize my best option is to just keep paying it down. My credit has steadily gone up, sadly it was worse.

I guess where I am lost is the lenders see my credit has improved, I have been steadily making payments on my car, as well as other debts, I want about the same loan for a lower interest(and likely a lower payment) but don't qualify but a year and a half ago I did qualify.

rated:
Just keep doing what you're doing. You're on the right track.

Get your score up some more, and check again for better refinance rates. As long as you otherwise stay in age and mileage brackets, you can get a better rate with the likes of cap1 or Santander.

While driving a car you hate is a pain remember it's helping you dig yourself out of debt and bad credit.

If you still can't shake wanting a new car, total up all your remaining payments. Then go to a dealer and get a monthly payment and time period. Total that up and subtract your existing payments. You'll see that replacing your car will cost you immensely. Like $10k-20k extra.

If you think it's still worth it, nobody will stop you. I personally couldn't stomach that anymore. I've made my mistakes, and am trying to dig out and avoid future ones myself.

rated:
Dup

rated:
tillosguy said:   
I guess where I am lost is the lenders see my credit has improved, I have been steadily making payments on my car, as well as other debts, I want about the same loan for a lower interest(and likely a lower payment) but don't qualify but a year and a half ago I did qualify.
 

  You "dont qualify" because your collateral has deteriorated.  It doesnt matter how good your credit becomes, you will not get a secured loan for 50% more than the value of the asset securing it.

Please explain how you got so far underwater in just 18 months, when you've been paying extra towards the loan?  Did you overpay when purchasing it?  Or has it depreciated abnormally fast for whatever reason?

Skipping 6 Messages...
rated:
Why do you hate the car? Is there something wrong with it, or do you just hate it because it represents a financial albatross around your neck?

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