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rated:
I'm not sure if I've ever posted on this forum before, but yours came up when I googled 'finance forum.' I posted this on other forums too, but I hope someone here can help.

---------

My post is very long. I have a TL;DR about 2/3 of the way down, and I hope there's enough information there.

I collect DAC and SSI. I was disabled as a child; I have neurological problems, but Iím primarily limited by musculoskeletal disabilities. I wonít go into detail about my disabilities or limitations Ė except to say that†my limitations are highly sporadic. I might be able to do a reasonable amount of work (assuming the work is conducive to my disabilities) for a couple of years, and then nearly completely unable to do any for over a year.†Or, I might be limited one month at a time, for a few months Ė each year; etc. Itís inconsistent. Working for someone else isnít an option Ė there are between one and three things Iím able to do, and I canít find an employer for those (one requires a degree I donít yet have.) Thus, I aim for self-employment Ė so I can work around the times I canít work.

Currently, after paying my bills and buying toilet paper, etc. (and my bills are limited Ė no data on cell phone service, no cable TV, no credit cards) I have about $150 to spare each month Ė and thatís before account for things like vehicle maintenance.†

My DAC gives me medicare and $613/mo. Thereís no asset (resource) limit with this, but thereís an income limit - $1,170/mo. It has a hard limit Ė if I receive $1,171 in a single month, I lose it entirely Ė including the medical benefits, for that month (or year, as Iíll explain later.)

My SSI gives me Medicaid (medigap) and dental/vision. It also gives me $143/mo, and has an asset (resource) limit of $2,000. After I earn $65 in one month, I begin to lose this. For each dollar I earn, they reduce my benefit by 50 cents (2:1). When my benefit becomes 0, I lose my Medicaid (medigap) coverage, meaning my dental and vision. I have MAWD, so Iíd still have medigap Ė but no coverage at all for dental or vision. In addition, SSA(?) stops paying my medicare premium ($134). There are two programs that can cover this Ė QMB and Slim B.

MAWD has an income limit of about $5,000, and an asset limit of $8,000. MAWD gives me Medicaid insurance, even my SSI (the $143) goes to 0. But, again Ė it would leave me without dental or vision coverage.†

QMB and SlimB pay my medicare premium if I lose my SSI check ($143). As far the benefits they provide, I believe theyíre essentially the same: they both pay my medicare premium. QMB has a stricter cut-off, so Iíll only speak about SlimB: It allows me to have Ö $1,200? income and about $7,600 in resources, and remain eligible. They count my DAC/SSI at 100%. Thus, my $613 check counts as $613 toward my income limit. After that, they count half of my earned income. So, I can earn about $1,200 and not lose this. However, after $1,170 it becomes irrelevant because Iíve already lost medicare: thereís no medicare premium to pay if I donít have medicare!

Section 8 gives me assistance with paying for my housing; they pay $342 of my $550 total. For every dollar I earn after about $80 (they donít exclude the first 80, they merely donít make any changes until I go beyond this), they take awayÖ 50%? of my assistance. So, I lose this entirely after I earn about $684. Also, after the first year (Iím half way there, now) they count my self-employment income the same way social security does Ė they average it based on the previous year.

LIEAP (Energy Assistance) assists me on average (they only assist in the cold months, but Iím averaging for all 12) with about $30. I donít know their income requirements, but I assume itís similar to that of food stamps (below.)

Food stamps Ė gives me $198/mo. And I use all of it Ė and Iím not fat and I donít eat expensive food. Iím 130lb, but I have an absurdly high ďmetabolismĒ (or whatever it is that causes the effect often attributed to it.) Ö Because Iím disabled, my assistance here is tapered. I can earn $300 without losing any of this, but then it begins to taper. After earning $1,000, Iím left with only $50/mo in assistance.

PELL Grant Ė Pays my tuition entirely. It tapers, too. I donít lose any of it until I earn around 14k/yr. I donít remember exactly how much it is, but this is the least stringent assistance to satisfy.
In all, I receive about $704 in non-cash assistance (medicare premium, sec.8, food stamps, energy assistance) and $753 in cash assistance (soc.sec), before accounting for my PELL grant Ė as this isnít used to support me. Thus, I receive about $1,457 in assistance Ė before attributing a value to my medicare, medicaid, vision or dental coverage.†

Social Security makes it difficult: Iím self-employed, so they will only go by estimated income for the full year Ė and they base this on the previous year. So, if in year 1 I earn an average of $1,171 (just $1 over the limit), I lose all soc.sec benefits and housing assistance in year 2 (this accounts for $1,095).†Iíd still have MAWD (which doesnít cover vision or dental). Now, again Ė my disabilities are sporadic. My hope is that I can learn to work with my body, or work around by body, and not become too severely limited for an extended period. However, I canít rely on this. Also note: the amount I earned in this example is $300 less than what I receive now - and I lost some of my medical coverage. Also note my asset limit: Social security doesnít count my income in the first year, so to keep my Medicaid coverage for the first year, I have to keep my assets below $2,000. If Iím below $2,000, I wasnít able to save up for the second year. Heck, even if I surrendered my Medicaid coverage Ė Iíd still have an $8,000 asset limit from MAWD and $7,600 from SlimB Ė this isnít enough to cover the tragedy that may befall me in the second year. (This isnít an unreasonable fear, Iíve gone over a year being very limited Ė this happened just 2 or 3 years ago.)

And then at this point, Iím also paying taxes Ė which I didnít add in my calculations! So, my $1,170 isnít really $1,170. In addition, my pell grant beings to lower. At this point, the loss in pell grant isnít significant Ė but as my income rises above this, it becomes so.

So, what if I earn less than 1,170? Well, if I earn Ė for example, $1,100 Ė I lose approximately (thereís no need to add this one precisely, it simply canít work.) $800 in benefits and my dental/vision. This leaves me with $450/mo (my previous $150, plus this $300), and a $2,000 asset limit. I canít pay for school this way, and I canít ensure my ability to continue work: my work requires a vehicle, and at some point in my life itís going to require more than $2,000 in assets to fix it.

TL;DR

If I do an LLC Ė my LLCís income is counted as my income. If I do a sole proprietorship Ė the same thing applies. If I do an S-Corp, Iím required to pay myself a normal wage for the field. If I do a C-Corp, my business income is supposedly protected. SSA, PCH, and even food stamps will be counting my self-employment income based on my tax return; if thereís nothing on the self-employment line, they count it as 0. C-Corps pay taxes on their income, and if I retract funds from it to pay myself Ė we (my business and I) end up paying tax twice. However, it would allow me the possibility for either A) I'm eventually reliably making enough $$ to not need assistance, and then I can pay myself and drop my assistance. B) The business has enough assets for me to simply sell it and pay for my doctorate degree.†

Iíve already spoken to dept. of social services, and to SSA Ė they both told me I can do this because the corpís income isnít my income. However, I donít trust them. Theyíve screwed up many times, and given me completely incorrect information which affected my benefits. So, my concerns:

Is C-corp counted as an asset? SSA told me itís not, since Iím the owner/quasi-"self-employed." (Remember my $2k asset limit.)

If I perform duties for this business but donít take any income for myself, am I still performing substantial gainful activity? (AKA ďThree TestsĒ) SSA told me no, that Iím able to volunteer all I want and I wonít be affected.

Do they really disregard this businessí income until I pay myself? SSA and Soc.Services said this is correct.


My other option is to take student loans and get a doctorate. However, as far as I can see Ė I canít apply for IBR (income-based repayment) until after Iíve taken the loan. Also, I canít be approved for IBR if Iím in default on the loan. So, this is what happens: I finish school, then I have to do a 2-year unpaid internship, but the loan provider wants me to start paying after Ö 6 months? Obviously with my income, I canít. I also canít be approved for IBR, because now Iím behind; I wasnít paying.

Iíve already considered PASS (Plan to Achieve Self Support), but this is no-go. My local benefits specialist told me that the cadre for my region hasnít approved even one of her clients. And sheís the only specialist in this area, so itís not as though she has a small sample size. Even if he wasnít difficult to deal with, it would still be a big question mark: I canít apply until shortly before I want to begin using the funds theyíd give me, which means I have to finish my undergrad (another 4 years.) Itís possible, of course Ė but itís not reasonable to spend another 4 years in school, full-time, for an unlikely possibility.†

I also considered doing a simple LLC and paying myself a little, and buying business equipment with the rest. That way, I have taxable income - it's not a hobby, and I'm increasing its assets. However, this won't work either - my taxes would be too high, because the nature of my business uses few, but expensive individual items. Thus, I can't deduct them as a business expenses - I can only depreciate them, making my taxes too high in the early years.

If these are a no-go, do I have any other options†Ė or am I simply screwed, will I forever be a leech to society?

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rated:
which state?

rated:
You could screw it up by violating a couple technicalties, but a C-Corp's income should not count as your income.† However, the value of the corporation would be part of your assets.

Do you have a trusted family member who could own the C-Corp, so it isnt your asset?† Federal taxes on a corporation are plenty reasonable until the income gets substantial.† And remember - any eventual pay to you will also be deducted by the Corp (no double taxation).† You can also manage the tax rate on any dividends paid out - due to your low personal income, there may be no tax on the dividend payout.† Of course, state taxes will vary.

Putting it in a trust might also be an option, but that's getting expensive to get set up and maintain, unless you know this will be a winning formula going forward.

rated:
I have no advice to say other than simply goodluck. You're living proof of what is wrong with our system - someone that wants to work and contribute to society that is limited by a glass ceiling affect that was thought to combat abuse. In reality, it has done the opposite. Kudos to you, most others aren't educated enough to wrap their head around going through all the scenarios of how to produce income without screwing yourself over and losing all your benefits at once. I hope the very best for you.

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justignoredem said:   I have no advice to say other than simply goodluck. You're living proof of what is wrong with our system - someone that wants to work and contribute to society that is limited by a glass ceiling affect that was thought to combat abuse. In reality, it has done the opposite. Kudos to you, most others aren't educated enough to wrap their head around going through all the scenarios of how to produce income without screwing yourself over and losing all your benefits at once. I hope the very best for you.
††
This^^^ is 100% true.

Unfortunately, in order for you to be successful and self sufficient, you actually have to change your attitude about the benefits you receive. I'm not saying you have a bad attitude. I'm just saying that you can't have the attitude of, "I want to try and keep my benefits as much as possible," and also be successful at becoming self sufficient. They just aren't compatible. You're going to spend too much time and energy limiting yourself so as not to lose benefits that you will truly limit your potential. The more you limit yourself, the less successful you will be.

You sound pretty darn smart. I'd wager you know more about about the systems you are a part of than the other 95% of participants. It's a shame that your limitations are as debilitating and sporadic as they are, cause it sounds like you want to work. I don't know if there is a market for blogs about the sort of thing you're attempting, but I suggest you start one and document your experiences. Good luck!

rated:
I found this document that seems to cover a lot of what you're looking at as far as self employment and SSI :

http://vcu-ntdc.org/resources/WIPA_OtherResources/SEandSSADisabi...


Specifically on page 29 :

Small Business Ownership and Resource Determinations for SSI Recipients

In many instances, owning a business with assets, property, equipment, or cash in business accounts wonít cause ineligibility for SSI or Medicaid, but it all depends on how the owner structures the business. Remember that individual SSI recipients may not have more than $2,000 in countable resources to stay eligible for benefits, while eligible couples have a combined resource limit of $3,000. However, for businesses structured as sole proprietorships or simple partnerships, Social Security specifically excludes assets held by the business as countable resources under a special provision called ďProperty Essential for Self-SupportĒ or PESS.
The PESS provision allows the exclusion of certain property held by SSI recipients during resource determinations, regardless of its value or rate of return. PESS exclusions apply to:
 Property used in a trade or business (effective May 1, 1990);
 Property that represents government authority to engage in an income-producing
activity;
 Property used by an individual as an employee for work (effective May 1, 1990); and
 Property required by an employer for work (before May 1, 1990).
The POMS citations describing application of PESS begin at the following URL:
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/517e83681a5eb8b28525688d0...
340a78525754c00073830


You might find other resources at that organization : https://vcu-ntdc.org/index.cfm

rated:
Many areas have organizations that are set up to help navigate this web, you might see if there are any near you.

Regardless, I can't be the only one happy that I don't have to deal with this

rated:
jrbrown1991 said:   
My other option is to take student loans and get a doctorate. However, as far as I can see Ė I canít apply for IBR (income-based repayment) until after Iíve taken the loan. Also, I canít be approved for IBR if Iím in default on the loan. So, this is what happens: I finish school, then I have to do a 2-year unpaid internship, but the loan provider wants me to start paying after Ö 6 months? Obviously with my income, I canít. I also canít be approved for IBR, because now Iím behind; I wasnít paying.


††

Generally with student loans you don't have to make any payments on the loan while you are enrolled in school. † So repayment and thus IBR aren't an issue until after your'e done with school.

Once you finish school and payments become do, then you can apply for IBR and presumably qualify based on your income.


Why is a 2 year unpaid internship a requirement? † Is this normal for your occupation? † †It might help if we know what career your'e looking at pursuing.


rated:
i'm not sure if it's because of the way u framed it with ur disabilty, but i'm surprised that this post isn't getting the red it deserves.

I'm probably gonna get a lot of red for this, but i'm sorry, u get no sympathy from me.

reading this post shows me clearly whats wrong with society today. people think they are entitled to all these benefits and will do anything not to lose them. in other words, ur trying to scam the system. u want to have your cake and eat it too.

you keep saying ur worried about losing this or that. or that this coverage doesn't include dental or vision. i grew up with NO MEDICAL INSURANCE. NO DENTAL AND NO VISION. i never had insurance until after i graduated college and got a full time job. my parents were dirt poor but too proud to go on public assistance. yet today they dole out all these benefits to everyone and they wonder why no one wants to work?

your musculoskeletal disability doesn't seem to preclude you from operating a motorized vehicle, thus your body wont seize up while ur driving. go drive for uber or something and u will make a hell of a lot more than 1100 a month.

and if ur ever my uber driver, u aint getting a tip from me.


bring on the red.

rated:
Why would you get a Red UncleJr,

OP wanted to know how to scam the system by working AND getting benefits.
OP also did a TL;DR that is almost as long as the original post.

rated:
forbin4040 said:   Why would you get a Red UncleJr,

OP wanted to know how to scam the system by working AND getting benefits.
OP also did a TL;DR that is almost as long as the original post.

††
I didn't get the vibe that the OP wants to work and keep his benefits forever. I got the vibe that he's worried that as he starts working and trying to become self sufficient, because of the rules of the programs, he is going to get cut off BEFORE he can actually handle being cut off.

If that's true, then hopefully he can structure his business in a way that helps him not get cut off too fast, but also makes sense for running the business long term. Honestly, I think the long term is more important, so I don't necessarily think he should structure things differently just so he can save himself for the first year or two if it's going to screw him up later.

Jerosen made good points about business assets and school loans, and asked a good question to the OP. We'll see what his responses are and maybe we'll get a better idea of what he really wants to do.

rated:
Here's the situation that OP is trying to avoid as far as I understand it :

OP sets them self up in some sort of job or self employment. They make $2500 in a month for a period or whatever. All their benefits get zeroed out because of income. Then some random month /year the disability acts up and OP can't work. OP is now broke with no job and disabled and unable to function enough to work.

OP's plan is to get a degree and juggle income and benefits long enough to set themselves up in a more lucrative job that can sustain random periods of months or year unable to work and gain income.

If you've got good ideas for how OP can really deal with that situation better than their current plan then please do share.

OP clearly is trying to get off disability and asking for help. Flaming them is pathetic.

rated:
Do you have a friend or family member who has a small business or small proprietorship for whom you can work informally and in return they will buy stuff for you directly? Sort of a barter type relationship? That's probably your best bet to not get screwed. Ideally a family member, as then it would not be weird for them to be giving you gifts and buying you stuff to help you out.

rated:
OP have you considered putting your money into an IRA to reduce your taxable income? Would the retirement account not count towards your SSI countable assets until you are retirement age?

Also you should speak with your social worker about when your income is measured as to how it reduces your benefits. Are your benefits and income checked yearly when you file taxes, or every month, or some other amount? What happens if you get a job on the 2nd of July, work for 4 weeks and get paid on August 1st, does it count towards your July income and benefits, August? Could you then work for 3 months earning $6000, put $5500 into an IRA and maintain your benefits? Would you be able to continue receiving benefits for most of the year while you are working, and then next year you will have roughly a whole year of savings before losing your benefits?

rated:
justignoredem said:   I have no advice to say other than simply goodluck. You're living proof of what is wrong with our system - someone that wants to work and contribute to society that is limited by a glass ceiling affect that was thought to combat abuse. In reality, it has done the opposite. Kudos to you, most others aren't educated enough to wrap their head around going through all the scenarios of how to produce income without screwing yourself over and losing all your benefits at once. I hope the very best for you.
I echo that. Kudos and good luck to you! You should probably start some training classes and educate the people listening to Dave Ramseys to tell them how the real world works!

rated:
Thanks for trashing this guy...I am sure you are a Trumpster....because Billionaires always take care of little people

rated:
UncleJr said:   
reading this post shows me clearly whats wrong with society today. people think they are entitled to all these benefits and will do anything not to lose them. in other words, ur trying to scam the system. u want to have your cake and eat it too.


† It's pretty much the opposite. †He wants to survive on his own, but he will lose benefits before his earnings reach self-sufficiency. †Especially since his earnings will be inconsistent at best.

I don't know the "right" structure, but there should be a nest egg-type trust such people can assign income/assets exempt from qualifying for benefits, for the goal of eventual self-sufficiency.

rated:
jerosen said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
My other option is to take student loans and get a doctorate. However, as far as I can see Ė I canít apply for IBR (income-based repayment) until after Iíve taken the loan. Also, I canít be approved for IBR if Iím in default on the loan. So, this is what happens: I finish school, then I have to do a 2-year unpaid internship, but the loan provider wants me to start paying after Ö 6 months? Obviously with my income, I canít. I also canít be approved for IBR, because now Iím behind; I wasnít paying.


††

Generally with student loans you don't have to make any payments on the loan while you are enrolled in school. † So repayment and thus IBR aren't an issue until after your'e done with school.

Once you finish school and payments become do, then you can apply for IBR and presumably qualify based on your income.


Why is a 2 year unpaid internship a requirement? † Is this normal for your occupation? † †It might help if we know what career your'e looking at pursuing.


† Be sure the student loans you receive won't affect the programs you're in as well. I would think most won't count federal loans as those are limited to the school's determination of cost of attendance, but if you get any refunds you could easily go over the asset limits if it is not spent quickly. Private loans may or not count as "income" to the programs you're in. Additionally, not that I would necessarily recommend using your deferments that†are†limited, but if the internship is unpaid, you are essentially unemployed and volunteering and should qualify for unemployment deferment of the student loans. Whether in a deferment (school, unemployment, hardship) your subsidized loans are "frozen" and the interest is paid by the govt (not on unsubsidized loans). I know specifically with IBR, you get 3 years to be "in repayment" that start the day you first enter repayment (specifically under IBR-so don't start it if you don't have a plan) where the subsidized loans are frozen in this manner, but you are limited to one 3 year period total as an individual under IBR- I don't know if PAYE etc. have this. Basically, go unemployment for the internship deferment, do what you can with your benefits to curb the unsubsidized loans, then enter IBR once you really "start" and assuming you aren't making big bucks, you may be able to get your AGI low enough to make very little payments under IBR for 3 years while you save (after being cut off) and get your subsidized loans frozen. After that, you can attack the loans more, while keeping the payments smaller so you can get rid of the higher interest loans, or unsubsidized loans (shit happens) first in the most advantageous manner. If something happens, you would still have 1 year of unemployment deferment and 3 years of economic hardship deferment (basically unemployment deferment but you can make a very little bit of money) and freeze your subsidized loans again. (these are aside from the varied "forbearances", mandatory or otherwise). Not sure, but worst case scenario, you get OUT of disability officially, for awhile, and if it doesn't work out, I don't see why you couldn't get back on disability. I also don't see why you couldn't discharge the loans at that time (taxable income to you if you are not insolvent-you would be if qualifying for all those things) because your disability "effectively" happened after you took the loans out. Depending on your income and length of time you do this, you may find yourself with a higher disability benefit.

Edit: IBR can last for 25 total years, but there is a limit of the 3 years for the subsidized loan subsidy

rated:
misterphillip said:   Thanks for trashing this guy...I am sure you are a Trumpster....because Billionaires always take care of little people
††
I am as conservative as it gets as far as fiscal politics, but even I can see how the glass ceiling model hinders society growth instead of improving it. At the end of the day, it's a system that rewards people who don't try and punishes people that do try. There has to be a better way that encourages getting back up on your feet instead of figuratively telling you to stay where you are.

You're talking about people with no savings and no emergency fund to fall back on - yet if he makes even an ounce of money one month the rug gets swept out from under him all at once.†

rated:
puddonhead said:   which state?
††
South Dakota

Be back shortly to reply to others' comments.

rated:
jerosen said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
My other option is to take student loans and get a doctorate. However, as far as I can see Ė I canít apply for IBR (income-based repayment) until after Iíve taken the loan. Also, I canít be approved for IBR if Iím in default on the loan. So, this is what happens: I finish school, then I have to do a 2-year unpaid internship, but the loan provider wants me to start paying after Ö 6 months? Obviously with my income, I canít. I also canít be approved for IBR, because now Iím behind; I wasnít paying.


††

Generally with student loans you don't have to make any payments on the loan while you are enrolled in school. † So repayment and thus IBR aren't an issue until after your'e done with school.

Once you finish school and payments become do, then you can apply for IBR and presumably qualify based on your income.


Why is a 2 year unpaid internship a requirement? † Is this normal for your occupation? † †It might help if we know what career your'e looking at pursuing.


Psychology - Counseling. †Field requires 2,000 hours of practice for licensure. Paid internships (from what a local Psy.D told me) work you too hard for what my income would be, with my physical limitations. (They synergize, though that may not make sense - there's no need to debate my specific disabilities.)†

rated:
UncleJr said:   i'm not sure if it's because of the way u framed it with ur disabilty, but i'm surprised that this post isn't getting the red it deserves.

I'm probably gonna get a lot of red for this, but i'm sorry, u get no sympathy from me.

reading this post shows me clearly whats wrong with society today. people think they are entitled to all these benefits and will do anything not to lose them. in other words, ur trying to scam the system. u want to have your cake and eat it too.

you keep saying ur worried about losing this or that. or that this coverage doesn't include dental or vision. i grew up with NO MEDICAL INSURANCE. NO DENTAL AND NO VISION. i never had insurance until after i graduated college and got a full time job. my parents were dirt poor but too proud to go on public assistance. yet today they dole out all these benefits to everyone and they wonder why no one wants to work?

your musculoskeletal disability doesn't seem to preclude you from operating a motorized vehicle, thus your body wont seize up while ur driving. go drive for uber or something and u will make a hell of a lot more than 1100 a month.

and if ur ever my uber driver, u aint getting a tip from me.


bring on the red.

††
My disabilities†limit my driving. †Also, you never asked what vehicle I have - at 12mpg (I tried ot sell it, no buyers; and I can't LOWER THE PRICE because then I can't afford a reliable replacement vehicle), my gas cost eats quite a bit of the income. Also, I don't think uber exists in my city.
You also didn't grow up with my disabilities. Without medical care, I wouldn't even be partially functional. Congrats on your healthy (at least relatively) body, I hope it helps comfort you despite your hate.

rated:
Rajjeq said:   Do you have a friend or family member who has a small business or small proprietorship for whom you can work informally and in return they will buy stuff for you directly? Sort of a barter type relationship? That's probably your best bet to not get screwed. Ideally a family member, as then it would not be weird for them to be giving you gifts and buying you stuff to help you out.
Forgive me, I don't see a multi-quote button. Best I can do is 2 quotes at a time via clipboard.

This could work, but this is against social security's rules - which you probably didn't know. If I went this route, I could simply accept cash and not report it. I'm trying to keep it legal.
meade18 said:   forbin4040;19901321 said:
Why would you get a Red UncleJr,

OP wanted to know how to scam the system by working AND getting benefits.
OP also did a TL;DR that is almost as long as the original post.

††
Right, I specifically made clear that I don't want to leech off of society forever. I want to work, but if I end up with no income†and no medical coverage†for a year (or even a month, regarding medical) I could end up so far in the hole that I have no hope of ever crawling out - and I'd be homeless, plus disabled.. Homeless and disabled is not good.

rated:
collegestudent2017 said:   
jerosen said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
My other option is to take student loans and get a doctorate. However, as far as I can see Ė I canít apply for IBR (income-based repayment) until after Iíve taken the loan. Also, I canít be approved for IBR if Iím in default on the loan. So, this is what happens: I finish school, then I have to do a 2-year unpaid internship, but the loan provider wants me to start paying after Ö 6 months? Obviously with my income, I canít. I also canít be approved for IBR, because now Iím behind; I wasnít paying.


††

Generally with student loans you don't have to make any payments on the loan while you are enrolled in school. † So repayment and thus IBR aren't an issue until after your'e done with school.

Once you finish school and payments become do, then you can apply for IBR and presumably qualify based on your income.


Why is a 2 year unpaid internship a requirement? † Is this normal for your occupation? † †It might help if we know what career your'e looking at pursuing.


† Be sure the student loans you receive won't affect the programs you're in as well. I would think most won't count federal loans as those are limited to the school's determination of cost of attendance, but if you get any refunds you could easily go over the asset limits if it is not spent quickly. Private loans may or not count as "income" to the programs you're in. Additionally, not that I would necessarily recommend using your deferments that†are†limited, but if the internship is unpaid, you are essentially unemployed and volunteering and should qualify for unemployment deferment of the student loans. Whether in a deferment (school, unemployment, hardship) your subsidized loans are "frozen" and the interest is paid by the govt (not on unsubsidized loans). I know specifically with IBR, you get 3 years to be "in repayment" that start the day you first enter repayment (specifically under IBR-so don't start it if you don't have a plan) where the subsidized loans are frozen in this manner, but you are limited to one 3 year period total as an individual under IBR- I don't know if PAYE etc. have this. Basically, go unemployment for the internship deferment, do what you can with your benefits to curb the unsubsidized loans, then enter IBR once you really "start" and assuming you aren't making big bucks, you may be able to get your AGI low enough to make very little payments under IBR for 3 years while you save (after being cut off) and get your subsidized loans frozen. After that, you can attack the loans more, while keeping the payments smaller so you can get rid of the higher interest loans, or unsubsidized loans (shit happens) first in the most advantageous manner. If something happens, you would still have 1 year of unemployment deferment and 3 years of economic hardship deferment (basically unemployment deferment but you can make a very little bit of money) and freeze your subsidized loans again. (these are aside from the varied "forbearances", mandatory or otherwise). Not sure, but worst case scenario, you get OUT of disability officially, for awhile, and if it doesn't work out, I don't see why you couldn't get back on disability. I also don't see why you couldn't discharge the loans at that time (taxable income to you if you are not insolvent-you would be if qualifying for all those things) because your disability "effectively" happened after you took the loans out. Depending on your income and length of time you do this, you may find yourself with a higher disability benefit.

Edit: IBR can last for 25 total years, but there is a limit of the 3 years for the subsidized loan subsidy

††
You rock!!†That's not how I understood the loans. This may be doable!
------------------
OP have you considered putting your money into an IRA to reduce your taxable income? Would the retirement account not count towards your SSI countable assets until you are retirement age?†

Also you should speak with your social worker about when your income is measured as to how it reduces your benefits. Are your benefits and income checked yearly when you file taxes, or every month, or some other amount? What happens if you get a job on the 2nd of July, work for 4 weeks and get paid on August 1st, does it count towards your July income and benefits, August? Could you then work for 3 months earning $6000, put $5500 into an IRA and maintain your benefits? Would you be able to continue receiving benefits for most of the year while you are working, and then next year you will have roughly a whole year of savings before losing your benefits?

Screwed up the above quote.†
I already know how they calculate my benefits based on my income, as noted in the OP. It was long, I'll clarify again. Also, my underlined portion relates to the part of your question that I underlined.
Self-employment income doesn't affect me until the end of the year. They average my expected income for the next year, and decide how to benefit me based on that. If my expected average is over $1,170, I lose my benefits for the†full year.And because I had a $2k asset limit, I wasn't allowed to save up to support myself.

rated:
meade18 said:   
justignoredem said:   I have no advice to say other than simply goodluck. You're living proof of what is wrong with our system - someone that wants to work and contribute to society that is limited by a glass ceiling affect that was thought to combat abuse. In reality, it has done the opposite. Kudos to you, most others aren't educated enough to wrap their head around going through all the scenarios of how to produce income without screwing yourself over and losing all your benefits at once. I hope the very best for you.
††
This^^^ is 100% true.

Unfortunately, in order for you to be successful and self sufficient, you actually have to change your attitude about the benefits you receive. I'm not saying you have a bad attitude. I'm just saying that you can't have the attitude of, "I want to try and keep my benefits as much as possible," and also be successful at becoming self sufficient. They just aren't compatible. You're going to spend too much time and energy limiting yourself so as not to lose benefits that you will truly limit your potential. The more you limit yourself, the less successful you will be.

You sound pretty darn smart. I'd wager you know more about about the systems you are a part of than the other 95% of participants. It's a shame that your limitations are as debilitating and sporadic as they are, cause it sounds like you want to work. I don't know if there is a market for blogs about the sort of thing you're attempting, but I suggest you start one and document your experiences. Good luck!

††
It's not about keeping my benefits as long as I can - it's about keeping them long enough to not end up living on the street and without medical coverage.

I know more about the system than many of the blasted agents who handle my case.. Thanks for your wishes, sir.

rated:
jrbrown1991 said:   
Rajjeq said:   Do you have a friend or family member who has a small business or small proprietorship for whom you can work informally and in return they will buy stuff for you directly? Sort of a barter type relationship? That's probably your best bet to not get screwed. Ideally a family member, as then it would not be weird for them to be giving you gifts and buying you stuff to help you out.
Forgive me, I don't see a multi-quote button. Best I can do is 2 quotes at a time via clipboard.

This could work, but this is against social security's rules - which you probably didn't know. If I went this route, I could simply accept cash and not report it. I'm trying to keep it legal.

However, it isn't income until you receive it. You can do the work now, but they don't pay you until a period of time when your income is otherwise low. A lot like isolating self employment income in a C corp, where you can then control when you realize it personally.
††

rated:
jrbrown1991 said:   
puddonhead said:   which state?
††
South Dakota

Be back shortly to reply to others' comments.

††
Get out of SD. Or any of the fly-over states for that matter. U clearly have a head on your shoulders so do yourself a favor and move somewhere more diversified and tolerant.

rated:
Glitch99 said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
Rajjeq said:   Do you have a friend or family member who has a small business or small proprietorship for whom you can work informally and in return they will buy stuff for you directly? Sort of a barter type relationship? That's probably your best bet to not get screwed. Ideally a family member, as then it would not be weird for them to be giving you gifts and buying you stuff to help you out.
Forgive me, I don't see a multi-quote button. Best I can do is 2 quotes at a time via clipboard.

This could work, but this is against social security's rules - which you probably didn't know. If I went this route, I could simply accept cash and not report it. I'm trying to keep it legal.

However, it isn't income until you receive it. You can do the work now, but they don't pay you until a period of time when your income is otherwise low. A lot like isolating self employment income in a C corp, where you can then control when you realize it personally.
††

It still counts toward SGA, though you can argue I'm staying under that. With SSI, I'm not allowed to ask people to hold money for me. They count that as an asset (and perhaps income). If I'm wrong, correct me. As far as I understand, people often set up a trust in a very specific manner, in order to avoid†precisely this limitation.

I know it doesn't make sense, SSA's rules are absurd. Logically, it's not "less" if friend holds it rather than a C-Corp. But, again - their rules often don't make sense.

I appreciate you trying to help me.

rated:
SummerSoFar said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
puddonhead said:   which state?
††
South Dakota

Be back shortly to reply to others' comments.

††
Get out of SD. Or any of the fly-over states for that matter. U clearly have a head on your shoulders so do yourself a favor and move somewhere more diversified and tolerant.

††
South Dakota is definitely limited, but I'm lost on what you're referring to about diversity and tolerance?

Again - not arguing that it isn't limited, but I actually like it here. South Dakota is very friendly to gun rights - there are only about 3 states with what I consider sufficiently friendly gun laws. And although I want to do counseling primarily, I have a strong interest in combat psychology - I've already (I'm only a first year student) contacted my IRB requesting the opportunity to conduct research in this field. So far, it sounds like they're going to allow it.

rated:
jrbrown1991 said:   
SummerSoFar said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
puddonhead said:   which state?
††
South Dakota

Be back shortly to reply to others' comments.

††
Get out of SD. Or any of the fly-over states for that matter. U clearly have a head on your shoulders so do yourself a favor and move somewhere more diversified and tolerant.


Again - not arguing that it isn't limited, but I actually like it here. South Dakota is very friendly to gun rights - there are only about 3 states with what I consider sufficiently friendly gun laws.†

††
Ugh. I retract my statement. U are where you belong.

Edit: The ultra-conservative azzhats are out in full force I see, leaving a cesspool of hate.

rated:
SummerSoFar said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
SummerSoFar said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
puddonhead said:   which state?
††
South Dakota

Be back shortly to reply to others' comments.

††
Get out of SD. Or any of the fly-over states for that matter. U clearly have a head on your shoulders so do yourself a favor and move somewhere more diversified and tolerant.


Again - not arguing that it isn't limited, but I actually like it here. South Dakota is very friendly to gun rights - there are only about 3 states with what I consider sufficiently friendly gun laws.†

††
Ugh. I retract my statement. U are where you belong.


rated:
jerosen said:   
OP clearly is trying to get off disability and asking for help. Flaming them is pathetic.

††
So is redding my post with the suggestion of moving out of SD. He will have much better income prospects elsewhere.

rated:
jrbrown1991 said:   
Rajjeq said:   Do you have a friend or family member who has a small business or small proprietorship for whom you can work informally and in return they will buy stuff for you directly? Sort of a barter type relationship? That's probably your best bet to not get screwed. Ideally a family member, as then it would not be weird for them to be giving you gifts and buying you stuff to help you out.
Forgive me, I don't see a multi-quote button. Best I can do is 2 quotes at a time via clipboard.

This could work, but this is against social security's rules - which you probably didn't know. If I went this route, I could simply accept cash and not report it. I'm trying to keep it legal.
meade18 said:   forbin4040;19901321 said:
Why would you get a Red UncleJr,

OP wanted to know how to scam the system by working AND getting benefits.
OP also did a TL;DR that is almost as long as the original post.

††
Right, I specifically made clear that I don't want to leech off of society forever. I want to work, but if I end up with no income†and no medical coverage†for a year (or even a month, regarding medical) I could end up so far in the hole that I have no hope of ever crawling out - and I'd be homeless, plus disabled.. Homeless and disabled is not good.

† OK OK OP, you definitely made your point.

My issue was your TL;DR was so long I DR it properly.

rated:
forbin4040 said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   
Rajjeq said:   Do you have a friend or family member who has a small business or small proprietorship for whom you can work informally and in return they will buy stuff for you directly? Sort of a barter type relationship? That's probably your best bet to not get screwed. Ideally a family member, as then it would not be weird for them to be giving you gifts and buying you stuff to help you out.
Forgive me, I don't see a multi-quote button. Best I can do is 2 quotes at a time via clipboard.

This could work, but this is against social security's rules - which you probably didn't know. If I went this route, I could simply accept cash and not report it. I'm trying to keep it legal.
meade18 said:   forbin4040;19901321 said:
Why would you get a Red UncleJr,

OP wanted to know how to scam the system by working AND getting benefits.
OP also did a TL;DR that is almost as long as the original post.

††
Right, I specifically made clear that I don't want to leech off of society forever. I want to work, but if I end up with no income†and no medical coverage†for a year (or even a month, regarding medical) I could end up so far in the hole that I have no hope of ever crawling out - and I'd be homeless, plus disabled.. Homeless and disabled is not good.

† OK OK OP, you definitely made your point.

My issue was your TL;DR was so long I DR it properly.


† Yes, it's very long. Enjoy your day.

rated:
SummerSoFar said:   
jerosen said:   
OP clearly is trying to get off disability and asking for help. Flaming them is pathetic.

††
So is redding my post with the suggestion of moving out of SD. He will have much better income prospects elsewhere.

††
I hadn't even noticed colors!
I took your comment as a compliment. There seems to be one logical error between your two statements, but nothing offensive IMO; you're right that I belong here.

rated:
gnopgnip said:   OP have you considered putting your money into an IRA to reduce your taxable income? Would the retirement account not count towards your SSI countable assets until you are retirement age?

Also you should speak with your social worker about when your income is measured as to how it reduces your benefits. Are your benefits and income checked yearly when you file taxes, or every month, or some other amount? What happens if you get a job on the 2nd of July, work for 4 weeks and get paid on August 1st, does it count towards your July income and benefits, August? Could you then work for 3 months earning $6000, put $5500 into an IRA and maintain your benefits? Would you be able to continue receiving benefits for most of the year while you are working, and then next year you will have roughly a whole year of savings before losing your benefits?

† Interesting idea, but I suspect that it might now help with respect to SSI since retirement contributions do not reduce Social Security income.

rated:
meade18 said:   
forbin4040 said:   Why would you get a Red UncleJr,

OP wanted to know how to scam the system by working AND getting benefits.
OP also did a TL;DR that is almost as long as the original post.

††
I didn't get the vibe that the OP wants to work and keep his benefits forever. I got the vibe that he's worried that as he starts working and trying to become self sufficient, because of the rules of the programs, he is going to get cut off BEFORE he can actually handle being cut off.

If that's true, then hopefully he can structure his business in a way that helps him not get cut off too fast
, but also makes sense for running the business long term. Honestly, I think the long term is more important, so I don't necessarily think he should structure things differently just so he can save himself for the first year or two if it's going to screw him up later.

Jerosen made good points about business assets and school loans, and asked a good question to the OP. We'll see what his responses are and maybe we'll get a better idea of what he really wants to do.

††
There is so much fraud in public assistance today that unfortunately those who are making a real effort to get off public assistance get painted with the same brush as those who make milking the system their way of life. †OP's situation makes a compelling argument about why a safety net was developed in the first place. †I see no reason why he should be criticized for trying to make legitimate use of the laws that will hopefully ultimately lift him off the need for public assistance .

rated:
jrbrown1991 said:   I'm not sure if I've ever posted on this forum before, but yours came up when I googled 'finance forum.' I posted this on other forums too, but I hope someone here can help.




† Was†World of Tanks†on the results page from Google?

rated:
lp244 said:   
jrbrown1991 said:   I'm not sure if I've ever posted on this forum before, but yours came up when I googled 'finance forum.' I posted this on other forums too, but I hope someone here can help.




† Was†World of Tanks†on the results page from Google?

††
Nope, I've posted on their forum a lot so I was familiar with it.
Arty ruined that game...

Skipping 93 Messages...
rated:
Not sure if your state participates, but perhaps an ABLE Account would help you? http://www.ablenrc.org/about/what-are-able-accounts

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