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Sleeping at a business zoned as condos.

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rated:
Completely unconventional, but legal?
Renting an office and signing lease shortly.
Landlord mentioned it is zoned for condos.
Each unit in the building is a business with tenants putting utilities in their own names.
My lease for my apartment is up next month, so I got to thinking:
Is it legal to get an air mattress and sleep in the building?
What should I look for in the lease that would negate this?

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You can probably do so and be in the clear since you are legally renting the space. The one thing you should look out fo... (more)

Paragon (Jul. 18, 2017 @ 1:08p) |

If the place has 24hr access, it's none of their business what times you come and go.

atikovi (Jul. 18, 2017 @ 9:57p) |

If they are enforcing the terms and conditions of your lease then sure it is their business.  I actually had a power plu... (more)

RedWolfe01 (Jul. 19, 2017 @ 1:38a) |

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You can sleep anywhere you want dude. Question is - where are you going to shower?

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Quikboy4 said:   You can sleep anywhere you want dude. Question is - where are you going to shower?

At the gym.

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YMCA

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Zoning is irrelevant.  The only issue might be if  the building itself doesnt meet code requirements for providing overnight/sleeping accommodations, it may not have the right occupancy permit. 

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Is this Gauss44?
That's a novel way to get a cheap apt.
Though if you bring in a hot plate the maintenance crew would have to report you.

In fact, does it come with Maintenance?  If so, this won't work as they would report you.

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Bkj3505 said:   Landlord mentioned it is zoned for condos.

 

"Condo" is a term referring to ownership arrangements, not necessarily how the units are utilized.  There are most certainly "office condos," which would generally be units within a building or development that are individually owned but share common structural components or amenities.  Not saying you can or can't live there; just pointing out that designation as a "condo," isn't definitive one way or the other.  

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Stubtify said:   
Quikboy4 said:   You can sleep anywhere you want dude. Question is - where are you going to shower?

At the gym.

  
imbatman said:   YMCA
  
If dude can't afford an apartment, I doubt he can afford a gym or YMCA membership.

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atikovi said:   
Stubtify said:   
Quikboy4 said:   You can sleep anywhere you want dude. Question is - where are you going to shower?

At the gym.

  
imbatman said:   YMCA
  
If dude can't afford an apartment, I doubt he can afford a gym or YMCA membership.

  Why would you think it has anything to do with what he can or cant afford? 

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JepJepJep said:   Congressman and women do it.

http://www.npr.org/2015/12/26/458207661/meet-the-lawmakers-who-s...


Yea, but they are above the law. Unless said office has a window for egress, you can't legally sleep in it.

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it is unlikely to be legal under city planning (zoning) and building code as the building was built as an office, not residential. however, if you do it discreetly and nobody complains, you can probably do it.

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atikovi said:   
JepJepJep said:   Congressman and women do it.

http://www.npr.org/2015/12/26/458207661/meet-the-lawmakers-who-s...


Yea, but they are above the law. Unless said office has a window for egress, you can't legally sleep in it.

A congressman is not breaking the law by sleeping in their office.  If anything, the "landlord" would be violating building codes by not ensuring adequate egress.  You can sleep wherever you want.

As for the OP, he's probably not suggesting anything illegal, but there's likely a provision in the commercial lease that prohibits using the premises for certain purposes.  I would guess that living there might not be permitted by most commercial leases.   

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Gyms that have showers are $10 (or less) a month.

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Stubtify said:   Gyms that have showers are $10 (or less) a month.
  Maybe at a homeless shelter. The swim centers around here charge $7 a day admission.

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The great paradox. Anywhere expensive enough to tempt you into living in office space instead of normal residential is unlikely to have cheap suburban gyms. <$50.

My partner and his art school friends did this back in SF in the early 90s. Took a cheap office suite in what is now SOMA and piled a bunch of people in there. Heated hot water in tea kettles for bathing. I can only imagine the rent on an office space at 9th and Harrison these days

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Is there free cucumber water involved?

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City parks are free.

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Ecuadorgr said:   Is there free cucumber water involved?
  
No water for you!   That's for paying customers!!

 

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TravelerMSY said:   The great paradox. Anywhere expensive enough to tempt you into living in office space instead of normal residential is unlikely to have cheap suburban gyms. <$50.

My partner and his art school friends did this back in SF in the early 90s. Took a cheap office suite in what is now SOMA and piled a bunch of people in there. Heated hot water in tea kettles for bathing. I can only imagine the rent on an office space at 9th and Harrison these days

  yeah, not unlike the ghost ship fire recently in oakland. it's all cool until you have a bunch of people die and then all kinds of codes get enforced, again!

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atikovi said:   
Stubtify said:   Gyms that have showers are $10 (or less) a month.
  Maybe at a homeless shelter. The swim centers around here charge $7 a day admission.

  Who said anything about swimming?  Besides, if he already has a gym membership anyways, this plan wont cost him another penny.

Hell, if each unit has its own restroom, it may be rather inexpensive to actually install a shower stall at "the office".  Yes I said "may", since it depends entirely on the specifics of his unit.  And yes, it could be justified to the landlord even without mentioning the whole planning-to-live-there purpose.

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All the indoor swim centers have gyms.

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Gyms that don't have pools can have showers and are frequently cheaper too.

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atikovi said:   All the indoor swim centers have gyms.
  OK?  And your point....? 

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Glitch99 said:   
atikovi said:   All the indoor swim centers have gyms.
  OK?  And your point....? 

  Who said anything about a point?

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Are you doing this just to save money on rent? The nice thing about you being the one renting the office is you don't have to sneak around quite as much as if it were a shared office space.

http://www.theofficehobo.com/

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Isn't this simply "hiring overnight security"?

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atikovi said:   
Stubtify said:   Gyms that have showers are $10 (or less) a month.
  Maybe at a homeless shelter. The swim centers around here charge $7 a day admission.

  
There's no Planet Fitness near you? They're all $10 a month and a couple times a year they run a $99 one year membership special. 

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henry33 said:   
atikovi said:   
Stubtify said:   Gyms that have showers are $10 (or less) a month.
  Maybe at a homeless shelter. The swim centers around here charge $7 a day admission.

  
There's no Planet Fitness near you? They're all $10 a month and a couple times a year they run a $99 one year membership special. 

  He obviously prefers baths.

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As a practical matter, it's almost irrelevant what local code says, it's most likely a violation of the lease terms and/or building regulations.  When the landlord finds out, you will likely be evicted if the violation continues.  I don't know of any landlord that would tolerate this on a permanent basis.

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I am curious, what exactly is the cost difference (between regular apartment and an office space) for a unit of comparable plan/square footage? I was under the impression that office space would be more expensive and perhaps come with less protection (the usual LL-tenant laws may not apply?).

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fwuser12 said:   I am curious, what exactly is the cost difference (between regular apartment and an office space) for a unit of comparable plan/square footage? I was under the impression that office space would be more expensive and perhaps come with less protection (the usual LL-tenant laws may not apply?).
 He's renting the office space anyway.  So he'd be eliminating the cost of a home.  Presumably his need for office space can't be accommodated in an apartment.

I think he'd actually earn the same protections as any renter if he establishes residency at the office for long enough.  Which is the biggest reason the landlord probably wouldn't allow it if ever discovered.

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Glitch99 said:   
fwuser12 said:   I am curious, what exactly is the cost difference (between regular apartment and an office space) for a unit of comparable plan/square footage? I was under the impression that office space would be more expensive and perhaps come with less protection (the usual LL-tenant laws may not apply?).
 He's renting the office space anyway.  So he'd be eliminating the cost of a home.  Presumably his need for office space can't be accommodated in an apartment.

I think he'd actually earn the same protections as any renter if he establishes residency at the office for long enough.  Which is the biggest reason the landlord probably wouldn't allow it if ever discovered.

  
This is one reason that those rare homes with a commercial space attached are expensive.  At least where I live.  Galleries, accountants, ect...  can work from home professionally without worrying about the Man.  I know an artist who officially has a Gallery on the first floor of her house that she never opened as a business, they do almost all mail order and her workspace is pretty much the whole attic with lots of windows.  Maybe not so much now, she went all digital so the windows are less critical.   They bought the place zoned residential/commercial.  Nice neighborhood, too.  If you have kids, particularly girls then you probably have seen her work and may even own some of it.  

 

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Small start up companies regularly have employees that pull all-nighters. Having a couch/cot/air mattress in the office is reasonable for "naps". I wouldn't ask the landlord if it's permissible to live there, nor would I admit that I slept there every night if asked. Let them just think you're a workaholic and maybe a little eccentric, and they probably won't bother you.

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UPDATE:

PRICE:
$750 office and $750 apartment.

SHOWERING:
College has locker room (always wear sandals)

FOOD:
There's a kitchen, sink and counters. I've brought my own microwave.

STORAGE UNIT:
Clothing, dressers, etc. Living out of a giant suitcase for $99/mo (1st mo free with moving truck)

LANDLORD/LAWYERS (specific question)
What legal terms should I look for in the lease?

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You shouldn't look for anything in the lease because you're not living in the office space. You're working many late, late nights.

ETA: Invest in some timers that can randomly turn lights on/off in different areas of the office all night. 

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You could always find a storage place nearby. Put most of your personal stuff there, but do so like it is a room... have a bed there. If things get shaky and you look like you will get caught, go spend the night in the storage facility.

Or you could just get a box truck to keep in the parking lot at all time.

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Dus10 said:   You could always find a storage place nearby. Put most of your personal stuff there, but do so like it is a room... have a bed there. If things get shaky and you look like you will get caught, go spend the night in the storage facility.

Or you could just get a box truck to keep in the parking lot at all time.

 
No no no and no.

(I've already mentioned I AM using the storage facility.
There's a keycard automatic gate that logs each swipe when you enter and leave.)

What about the legal language about use of the space?
What should I look for as far as 'use of premises,' etc.?

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forbin4040 said:   Is this Gauss44?
That's a novel way to get a cheap apt.
Though if you bring in a hot plate the maintenance crew would have to report you.

In fact, does it come with Maintenance?  If so, this won't work as they would report you.

This is not Gauss44.
Thanks for the compliment on its novelty (this is doing things the FWF way--on steroids. Not ideal, but the savings will be wonderful...if it works)
No hot plate, new microwave.
No maintenance crew.
dcwilbur said:   Bkj3505;19904341 said:
Landlord mentioned it is zoned for condos.

 

  Excellent explanation. Thank you.

 

Skipping 22 Messages...
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atikovi said:   
elektronic said:   
Dus10 said:   Why bother with falsifying? Have some inventory or a collection that you keep in your storage locker. Just say you were rearranging it. Go in and out as normal.

Because if the logbooks say you enter at 7PM and leave at 7am every night, you'll get evicted.

  If the place has 24hr access, it's none of their business what times you come and go.

  
If they are enforcing the terms and conditions of your lease then sure it is their business.  I actually had a power plug in one of the units I leased -- and they had written in the terms that if they monitored power usage that they would have right of entry to shut it down.  It was not intended for MY use.  They also said if I was running a fan or a vacuum while I was cleaning they didn't care -but no deep freezes or anything. 

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