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My tenants never sent me a 30 day written notice. He will eventually send a written notice that will arrive later this week.  Says he sent a text that he will be sending a written notice.  According to the contract his lease is renewed by month to month agreement.  I am holding him responsible for the next month's rent. 

Can his text message hold up in court?

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This topic is really getting way off track. Can we make an effort to bring it back on topic?

Neilium (Jul. 07, 2017 @ 12:45p) |

Here is the final conclusion. I got the written letter, delivered certified today. Tenant changed the date to WHAT I WAN... (more)

king0fSpades (Jul. 07, 2017 @ 2:09p) |

That sounds like something Batman or Darkwing Duck would say.

T800 (Jul. 07, 2017 @ 2:12p) |

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What did the text message say?
"Notice to move out" vs. "intent to give notice"

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DeGlass said:   What did the text message say?
"Notice to move out" vs. "intent to give notice"

  I would like to let you know that as of today July 2, 2017 I'm giving you my 30 day notice to end my lease for the property at <address>I will follow this text with a certified letter that you will receive by mail in next few days.

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The judges in my area accept text messages and emails as written notice (from me to tenant and from tenant to me). YMMV

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.

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Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.

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It should be considered notice

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king0fSpades said:   
DeGlass said:   What did the text message say?
"Notice to move out" vs. "intent to give notice"

  I would like to let you know that as of today July 2, 2017 I'm giving you my 30 day notice to end my lease for the property at <address>I will follow this text with a certified letter that you will receive by mail in next few days.

That sounds like notice to me.  

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nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  

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That's always true. I'd confirm with the tenant that he's actually moving out before signing the lease. And I don't know about your state, but in mine electronic communication is considered legally binding so I use software to get electronic signatures on leases these days.

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king0fSpades said:   
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  


Tell tenant to take a pic of the signed notice and email it to you.  That should be as sufficient as a scan or fax.

Don't be difficult, but adapt to changes of the times.  Remember, they have possession of your valuable property and can leave costly surprises behind (your only recourse if it exceeds the deposit is to sue and hopefully recover).  I remember when people were worried about accepting a scan or fax as a legal notice - it's not even a second thought now.
 

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king0fSpades said:   
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  

 well finding a tenant and signing a lease with a new tenant are two very different things. I sign only a lease on the day the tenant gets the keys and takes possession

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rufflesinc said:   
king0fSpades said:   
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  

 well finding a tenant and signing a lease with a new tenant are two very different things. I sign only a lease on the day the tenant gets the keys and takes possession

  When you find a tenant, you accept a deposit to hold the property for them. Once you do that, you have to have the property available. That is why I require a written notice. Looks like the answer is, " up to the judge."  Some judges throw it out and some might rule in the favor of tenant. Will keep you guys posted. 

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just be glad the tenants didnt destroy your house

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king0fSpades said:   
rufflesinc said:   
king0fSpades said:   
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  

 well finding a tenant and signing a lease with a new tenant are two very different things. I sign only a lease on the day the tenant gets the keys and takes possession

  When you find a tenant, you accept a deposit to hold the property for them. Once you do that, you have to have the property available. That is why I require a written notice. Looks like the answer is, " up to the judge."  Some judges throw it out and some might rule in the favor of tenant. Will keep you guys posted. 

  then don't accept a deposit until you actually have a property available

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king0fSpades said:   Looks like the answer is, " up to the judge."  Some judges throw it out and some might rule in the favor of tenant. Will keep you guys posted. 
 

  Reading comprehension problem? The FWF opinion on this thread is to treat this as a valid notice; perhaps confirm with tenant to be sure or get scan of written notice that they are going to mailing.
bbr said:   The judges in my area accept text messages and emails as written notice (from me to tenant and from tenant to me). YMMV
  
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  
Luniz97 said:   It should be considered notice
  
dcwilbur said:   That sounds like notice to me.  
  
henry33 said:   That's always true. I'd confirm with the tenant that he's actually moving out before signing the lease. And I don't know about your state, but in mine electronic communication is considered legally binding so I use software to get electronic signatures on leases these days.
  
civ2k1 said:   Tell tenant to take a pic of the signed notice and email it to you.  That should be as sufficient as a scan or fax.

Don't be difficult, but adapt to changes of the times.  Remember, they have possession of your valuable property and can leave costly surprises behind (your only recourse if it exceeds the deposit is to sue and hopefully recover).  I remember when people were worried about accepting a scan or fax as a legal notice - it's not even a second thought now.
 

  

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king0fSpades said:   My tenants never sent me a 30 day written notice. He will eventually send a written notice that will arrive later this week.  Says he sent a text that he will be sending a written notice.  According to the contract his lease is renewed by month to month agreement.  I am holding him responsible for the next month's rent. 

Can his text message hold up in court?

  What is requiring the notice be written at all?  Your lease?  If so, does it specify a mailing/delivery address for any notices, or just "in writing"? 

I think you should just accept it regardless, but if the lease specifies written notification to 123 Main Street, anything "written" but not physically delivered (by mail or by hand) to 123 Main Street would technically not count.

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There are 31 days in July, so you got your 30 days notice. Now the law may stipulate on how that notice has to be provided (e.g. Certified Mail...), but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a judge who wouldn't hold your feet to the coals, if you dont honor this and that is the only issue. Tenant said he will send you notice in writing... Why don't you get busy listing the property for rent instead of posting on here.

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Glitch99 said:   
king0fSpades said:   My tenants never sent me a 30 day written notice. He will eventually send a written notice that will arrive later this week.  Says he sent a text that he will be sending a written notice.  According to the contract his lease is renewed by month to month agreement.  I am holding him responsible for the next month's rent. 

Can his text message hold up in court?

  What is requiring the notice be written at all?  Your lease?  If so, does it specify a mailing/delivery address for any notices, or just "in writing"? 

I think you should just accept it regardless, but if the lease specifies written notification to 123 Main Street, anything "written" but not physically delivered (by mail or by hand) to 123 Main Street would technically not count.

  my lease specifically says mailing to a specific po box

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king0fSpades said:   
rufflesinc said:   
king0fSpades said:   
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  

 well finding a tenant and signing a lease with a new tenant are two very different things. I sign only a lease on the day the tenant gets the keys and takes possession

  When you find a tenant, you accept a deposit to hold the property for them. Once you do that, you have to have the property available. That is why I require a written notice.

No, you require written notification so that there is no he said/she said vagueness as to what you are notified of and when.

You accept a deposit to hold the property, and if it ends up not being available you give the deposit back. It'd be your own fault if that deposit locks yourself into a lease commitment, generally you are just agreeing to not give it to someone else.

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On Judge Judy she accepts texts as proof, but it's not real small claims. I think it would be too easy to create a string of fake texts on a cellphone.

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As a matter of fact, why dont you send an email stating that you received his text, blah blah blah; and you'd like to know how he/she would like to handle notification for showings, what the move out process/inspection is etc... That is what I do when I get notice from someone.

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Ok here Is the background. Last Friday AC motor stopped. Saturday morning I sent my guy. Found out motor will be replaced. More was available Monday morning and I got is fixed 9:00am. Tenant asked me to pay half of his hotel cost. I told, sorry.

Now he texted this notice. He is not going to destroy the house. He has great credit. We have a sour relationship now. Being landlord is fun. 

There is no way he is going to let me show the house to prospective tenants. I will start the process after I get the keys. 

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king0fSpades said:   
There is no way he is going to let me show the house to prospective tenants. I will start the process after I get the keys. 

  You can still list the house with previous pictures.

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Glitch99 said:   
king0fSpades said:   
rufflesinc said:   
king0fSpades said:   
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  

 well finding a tenant and signing a lease with a new tenant are two very different things. I sign only a lease on the day the tenant gets the keys and takes possession

  When you find a tenant, you accept a deposit to hold the property for them. Once you do that, you have to have the property available. That is why I require a written notice.

No, you require written notification so that there is no he said/she said vagueness as to what you are notified of and when.

 

but what does it legally mean?

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king0fSpades said:   Ok here Is the background. Last Friday AC motor stopped. Saturday morning I sent my guy. Found out motor will be replaced. More was available Monday morning and I got is fixed 9:00am. Tenant asked me to pay half of his hotel cost. I told, sorry.

Now he texted this notice. He is not going to destroy the house. He has great credit. We have a sour relationship now. Being landlord is fun. 

There is no way he is going to let me show the house to prospective tenants. I will start the process after I get the keys. 

  I dont know where you live, but here in FL, it is against the FL Statutes to not allow showings.  I had a tenant who was being evicted, allowed to stay for remainder of month that she paid for, but refused any showings. I kept her security deposit for that alone. Keep in mind that if you charge him for Aug rent, he has a right to retain keys and stay in the home. Itd be real crappy to Spring this on tenant at last minute. You have a certain obligation to make it known when the tenancy expires based upon when notice was provided.
I would have also refunded the rent for 2-3 days without air, under the circumstances.  Seems like you have no good will towards your tenants and are part cause of sour relations.

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I think he gave you legal notice that will stand up in court.

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JaxFL said:   
king0fSpades said:   Ok here Is the background. Last Friday AC motor stopped. Saturday morning I sent my guy. Found out motor will be replaced. More was available Monday morning and I got is fixed 9:00am. Tenant asked me to pay half of his hotel cost. I told, sorry.

Now he texted this notice. He is not going to destroy the house. He has great credit. We have a sour relationship now. Being landlord is fun. 

There is no way he is going to let me show the house to prospective tenants. I will start the process after I get the keys. 

  I dont know where you live, but here in FL, it is against the FL Statutes to not allow showings.  I had a tenant who was being evicted, allowed to stay for remainder of month that she paid for, but refused any showings. I kept her security deposit for that alone. Keep in mind that if you charge him for Aug rent, he has a right to retain keys and stay in the home. Itd be real crappy to Spring this on tenant at last minute. You have a certain obligation to make it known when the tenancy expires based upon when notice was provided.
I would have also refunded the rent for 2-3 days without air, under the circumstances.  Seems like you have no good will towards your tenants and are part cause of sour relations.

  You can't say that I have no good will towards tenants. The rent I was charging for $200 below market.  He paid in time so I didn't rock the boat. I am ok with him leaving. If he has asked nicely I would have given him free days as well. But he started conversation like a jerk. 

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cajundavid said:   I think he gave you legal notice that will stand up in court.
  Let's see what the text of the mailed letter is and the stamped date. 

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king0fSpades said:   Ok here Is the background. Last Friday AC motor stopped. Saturday morning I sent my guy. Found out motor will be replaced. More was available Monday morning and I got is fixed 9:00am. Tenant asked me to pay half of his hotel cost. I told, sorry.

Now he texted this notice. He is not going to destroy the house. He has great credit. We have a sour relationship now. Being landlord is fun. 

There is no way he is going to let me show the house to prospective tenants. I will start the process after I get the keys. 

  
It's still your property. I would just plan on showing it. Never really had an issue where a tenant wouldn't allow me access, I usually explain it all to them and they always let me. My lease says they're responsible for court costs. I can always go down to the court house and get a court injunction that allows me access to the unit. Doesn't take long. If they violate the court order, then they can get thrown in jail for ignoring the order of a judge. Once I explain all that, they usually relent, but usually I never even have to go that far. Some insist on 24 hours notice, but there's no requirement for that in my state so they get the same answer. 

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You're playing with fire for no reason. Remember that many states require security deposits to be returned in a timely manner. If you charge him an extra month and a judge rules in his favor after going to court (and I belive there is a high probability they would) you could miss your chance to return the deposit. That can get expensive. Does your state allow for security deposit to go towards unpaid rent?

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king0fSpades said:   
cajundavid said:   I think he gave you legal notice that will stand up in court.
  Let's see what the text of the mailed letter is and the stamped date. 

  So first you were saying that you're worried its not legal notice so the tenant can stay there and you'd have to deal with another person you promised the property to. Now you're saying you're going to force the tenant to pay an extra month just because you think a text message doesn't constitute written notice and the certified letter wasn't mailed on time? Sounds to me like you're making things unnecessarily difficult to try to pull one over on your tenant. Why not just text back and ask - so just wanted to confirm, you will be out and provide the keys to me by noon on July 31? Or whatever your lease says is the end of a term.

I'm also a bit confused by the OP. You said your tenant "says he sent a text that he will be sending a written notice." Just want to confirm that you actually received this text and the tenant is claiming the first time they sent notice is today (i.e. not that the tenant says they sent a text a week ago and you just didn't receive it).

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marginoferror said:   I'm also a bit confused by the OP. You said your tenant "says he sent a text that he will be sending a written notice." Just want to confirm that you actually received this text and the tenant is claiming the first time they sent notice is today (i.e. not that the tenant says they sent a text a week ago and you just didn't receive it).https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1575150?showmessage=199...


  

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rufflesinc said:   
Glitch99 said:   
king0fSpades said:   
rufflesinc said:   
king0fSpades said:   
nasheedb said:   Sorry, but I have to take the tenants side on this one. Why do you have to be such a hard ass about one day? And what's wrong with a text message? You clearly received it. Just move on and find a new tenant.
  Well if I find a tenant and this guy doesn't move out then?  I don't have a written notice that he actually wanted to move out.  

 well finding a tenant and signing a lease with a new tenant are two very different things. I sign only a lease on the day the tenant gets the keys and takes possession

  When you find a tenant, you accept a deposit to hold the property for them. Once you do that, you have to have the property available. That is why I require a written notice.

No, you require written notification so that there is no he said/she said vagueness as to what you are notified of and when.

 

but what does it legally mean?

  So that there is no ambiguity. Written notice ensures that there is no way the two parties can dispute the intent, date or message communicated.

That's why as a tenant I prefer to manage the relationship via email and give notice via email. 

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JaxFL said:   There are 31 days in July, so you got your 30 days notice. Now the law may stipulate on how that notice has to be provided (e.g. Certified Mail...), but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a judge who wouldn't hold your feet to the coals, if you dont honor this and that is the only issue. Tenant said he will send you notice in writing... Why don't you get busy listing the property for rent instead of posting on here.
  
Because 9 times out of 10, stupid clauses for giving 60 days notice or what-not isn't a notion to prepare the unit for renting again - it's really just a con to siphon as much money out of the current tenant as possible.

I find the whole practice rather ridiculous, and think the equivalent of a job's 2-weeks notice to be sufficient.

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king0fSpades said:   Ok here Is the background. Last Friday AC motor stopped. Saturday morning I sent my guy. Found out motor will be replaced. More was available Monday morning and I got is fixed 9:00am. Tenant asked me to pay half of his hotel cost. I told, sorry.

Now he texted this notice. He is not going to destroy the house. He has great credit. We have a sour relationship now. Being landlord is fun. 

There is no way he is going to let me show the house to prospective tenants. I will start the process after I get the keys. 
 

  
I think you did the right thing regarding the hotel cost. But I have a hard time believing this is the reason your relationship is soured... either the timing was coincidental (he was planning on moving anyway) or there is more going on that you're not telling us.

Also, I can't believe you're so hung up on the notice thing if you're not even going to do anything until he is out, anyway.

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I install window unit for extended AC outages.

For you next round of showings.  If you are managing it yourself, I suggest you  try using google forms to pre-screening the tenants.  Worked well for me on last two houses.

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Just a quick note...
OP says 30 day notice received on July 2.
Somebody else noted that July has "31 days so you got your 30 days notice"

I would argue that July 2 + 30 days = August 1.
Therefore, notice on July 2 means move out date of August 1 and in most places the tenancy/rent is "to the end of the term/month", meaning a notice on July 2 is valid for August 31. If it was July 1, then it's valid for July 31, whether text or email or hardcopy notice.

Notice IS valid, but the 30 day period for end of July is short by one day.

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drew2money said:   I install window unit for extended AC outages.

For you next round of showings.  If you are managing it yourself, I suggest you  try using google forms to pre-screening the tenants.  Worked well for me on last two houses.

As a tenant, I was happy with a window AC unit when the outside unit broke (or in one case hadn't been installed, despite having been broken for six months -- and the fact that I was only there for three months). If you have more than a few rentals, it would probably make sense to have a window unit or two (especially if the tenant is paying electricity).

Skipping 54 Messages...
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king0fSpades said:    I am the one who knocks, I am the danger.
 

  That sounds like something Batman or Darkwing Duck would say.



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