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New and bigger incentives proposed for California buyers of electric cars

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California Assemblyman Phil Ting, D-San Francisco has been pushing a bill to establish a $3 billion fund to support bigger rebates on electric vehicles. The bill already passed the Assembly and is now in Senate committee. Most expect the bill will be passed in the Senate and signed by Governor Jerry Brown, who has long supported increasing electric vehicles on California roads.

According to The Mercury News http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/28/new-bigger-incentives-for-electric-cars-could-be-ahead-in-california/, some of the terms of the proposed bill are:
 
"Funds are expected to be diverted from existing sources,with details set by the California Air Resources Board ...   The air resources board would determine the size of a rebate based on equalizing the cost of an EV and a comparable gas-powered car. For example, a new, $40,000 electric vehicle might have the same features as a $25,000 gas-powered car. The EV buyer would receive a $7,500 federal rebate, and the state would kick in an additional $7,500 to even out the bottom line.​​​​​..The proposal is essentially an expansion of a state program that now hands out rebates of between $1,500 and $5,000 to buyers of electric vehicles and hybrids.  Rebates for plug-in hybrids may decrease under the new bill."Lawmakers adjusted the rebate program in March 2016, curbing allowances for wealthy buyers and offering higher rebates for low and moderate income purchasers ...A study last year by two UC Berkeley-trained researchers of nearly 100,000 rebates found that more than 80 percent of the checks went to Californians reporting an income greater than $100,000. The money went primarily into communities with few black and Latino residents."

About two months ago, California's Governor Brown signed legislation to increase both the gasoline tax by 12 cents per gallon (beginning this November) and the car registration fees from $25 to $175 (beginning January 2018) claiming that the increased tax money was desperately needed in order to repair California roads.  Looks as if we may all have to buy an electric vehicle to get some of our tax money back. 

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
I dont know how the GA rebate was structured. But this proposal (per OP) "... would determine the size of a rebate based... (more)

fwuser12 (Jul. 21, 2017 @ 7:19p) |

Increased price always has effect on the customer by decreasing the rebate and thus the effective payment. I'm not too c... (more)

Yoksel (Jul. 21, 2017 @ 8:18p) |

Stalled in the Senate,so won't be taken up again until after the Summer recess.

I cannot see how this gets through with ... (more)

Dawgswin (Jul. 21, 2017 @ 8:24p) |

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Should this be counted as another Tesla thread?

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ZenNUTS said:   Should this be counted as another Tesla thread?
From what I have read, the new proposed incentive rebates won't be limited to merely Teslas.

The list of vehicles that were eligible for current rebates is on the California Air Resources Board here:  http://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles  Per CVRP's website: (CVRP) offers up to $7,000 in electric vehicle rebates for the purchase or lease of new, eligible zero-emissions and plug-in hybrid light-duty vehicles.

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Golf cart extravaganza all over again

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bighitter said:   According to The Mercury News http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/28/new-bigger-incentives-for-electric-cars-could-be-ahead-in-california/, some of the terms of the proposed bill are:
 
"Funds are expected to be diverted from existing sources,with details set by the California Air Resources Board ...   The air resources board would determine the size of a rebate based on equalizing the cost of an EV and a comparable gas-powered car. For example, a new, $40,000 electric vehicle might have the same features as a $25,000 gas-powered car. The EV buyer would receive a $7,500 federal rebate, and the state would kick in an additional $7,500 to even out the bottom line.​​​​​..The proposal is essentially an expansion of a state program that now hands out rebates of between $1,500 and $5,000 to buyers of electric vehicles and hybrids.  Rebates for plug-in hybrids may decrease under the new bill."Lawmakers adjusted the rebate program in March 2016, curbing allowances for wealthy buyers and offering higher rebates for low and moderate income purchasers ...A study last year by two UC Berkeley-trained researchers of nearly 100,000 rebates found that more than 80 percent of the checks went to Californians reporting an income greater than $100,000. The money went primarily into communities with few black and Latino residents."
 

1. Wonderful! EV manufacturer can increase the price of their vehicle and the rest of the (non-EV) car owners/tax payers will pick up the extra tab.
2. So the push towards EV is not entirely for environmental benefits. It has a social/class equalization purpose as well. How about we offer more rebates to currently "under served" group of people.

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skeer27 said:   Golf cart extravaganza all over again
Biggest missed opportunity in my lifetime.

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SummerSoFar said:   
skeer27 said:   Golf cart extravaganza all over again
Biggest missed opportunity in my lifetime.

  wouldn't that be bitcoin?

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fwuser12 said:   
1. Wonderful! EV manufacturer can increase the price of their vehicle and the rest of the (non-EV) car owners/tax payers will pick up the extra tab.
2. So the push towards EV is not entirely for environmental benefits. It has a social/class equalization purpose as well. How about we offer more rebates to currently "under served" group of people.


  1. Not like Tesla charges any more in the states that have the giant incentives (https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives)
  2. Just because the incentive money is primarily being used by higher income people doesn't negate the environmental benefits, it just likely worked that way because the early EV cars were substantially more expensive. And as for your idea about offering more rebates to the under served, perhaps you should read the article. 


Assemblyman Phil Ting, D-San Francisco, is pushing a proposal to establish a $3 billion fund to support the spread of electric vehicles with bigger rebates, more programs for low-income buyers and the deployment of more charging stations. 
 

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bighitter said:   
About two months ago, California's Governor Brown signed legislation to increase both the gasoline tax by 12 cents per gallon (beginning this November) and the car registration fees from $25 to $175 (beginning January 2018) claiming that the increased tax money was desperately needed in order to repair California roads.  Looks as if we may all have to buy an electric vehicle to get some of our tax money back. 

  Governor Brown also added an extra $100 to EV Car registrations as well.
And all this talk about 'low income' people buying EV's.  You are aware the 'low income' cut off for a single guy is $35,000 right?  And the EV cars cost $35,000 right?
 

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Czechmeout said:   

  1. Not like Tesla charges any more in the states that have the giant incentives (https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives)
  2. Just because the incentive money is primarily being used by higher income people doesn't negate the environmental benefits, it just likely worked that way because the early EV cars were substantially more expensive. And as for your idea about offering more rebates to the under served, perhaps you should read the article. 


  Dont disagree with you. I guess sarcasm in my post didnt go well!

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forbin4040 said:   bighitter said:   
About two months ago, California's Governor Brown signed legislation to increase both the gasoline tax by 12 cents per gallon (beginning this November) and the car registration fees from $25 to $175 (beginning January 2018) claiming that the increased tax money was desperately needed in order to repair California roads.  Looks as if we may all have to buy an electric vehicle to get some of our tax money back. 

  Governor Brown also added an extra $100 to EV Car registrations as well.
And all this talk about 'low income' people buying EV's.  You are aware the 'low income' cut off for a single guy is $35,000 right?  And the EV cars cost $35,000 right?
 


In the land of Phil ting, a family of two earning 138k qualifies for affordable housing.

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Say goodbye to sub $40k EV cars.

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lowinc said:   
forbin4040 said:   
bighitter said:   
About two months ago, California's Governor Brown signed legislation to increase both the gasoline tax by 12 cents per gallon (beginning this November) and the car registration fees from $25 to $175 (beginning January 2018) claiming that the increased tax money was desperately needed in order to repair California roads.  Looks as if we may all have to buy an electric vehicle to get some of our tax money back. 

  Governor Brown also added an extra $100 to EV Car registrations as well.
And all this talk about 'low income' people buying EV's.  You are aware the 'low income' cut off for a single guy is $35,000 right?  And the EV cars cost $35,000 right?


In the land of Phil ting, a family of two earning 138k qualifies for affordable housing.

  Why shouldn't they? 

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skeer27 said:   Golf cart extravaganza all over again
Yes, maybe the "Cadillac of golf carts".  Perhaps this?   https://www.cnet.com/news/the-cadillac-of-golf-carts-literally/
Maybe coming soon to a California dealership near you!  
Jerry Brown's slogan re. electric cars, and the future?  "There's no engineering like social engineering!"
 

rated:
forbin4040 said:   
bighitter said:   
About two months ago, California's Governor Brown signed legislation to increase both the gasoline tax by 12 cents per gallon (beginning this November) and the car registration fees from $25 to $175 (beginning January 2018) claiming that the increased tax money was desperately needed in order to repair California roads.  Looks as if we may all have to buy an electric vehicle to get some of our tax money back. 

  Governor Brown also added an extra $100 to EV Car registrations as well.
And all this talk about 'low income' people buying EV's.  You are aware the 'low income' cut off for a single guy is $35,000 right?  And the EV cars cost $35,000 right?

  As far as I’m concerned,  my state (California) shouldn’t be spending taxpayer money to subsidize electric vehicles period.   California's legislative representatives are going to eventually bankrupt this state with all the new taxes and additional spending.  That said,  inasmuch as our state's elected representatives are anxious to hand out big rebates in order to stimulate EV sales, I felt Fatwalleters should be informed so that they can prepare to take appropriate advantage of the situation.  Hence my post.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
SummerSoFar said:   
skeer27 said:   Golf cart extravaganza all over again
Biggest missed opportunity in my lifetime.

  wouldn't that be bitcoin?

 
Nope. Bitcoin is still vaporware. This one was the real deal bizzatch.

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Czechmeout said:   
Just because the incentive money is primarily being used by higher income people doesn't negate the environmental benefits, it just likely worked that way because the early EV cars were substantially more expensive.


But we can discuss A) what are the environmental benefits exactly and B) are the environmental benefits worth the amount of money we are putting toward subsidies? At the moment, even if you believe A is "a lot," B could still be "no." Since the case isn't even closed on A, its hard to even argue B is a "yes."
  

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meade18 said:   Czechmeout said:   
Just because the incentive money is primarily being used by higher income people doesn't negate the environmental benefits, it just likely worked that way because the early EV cars were substantially more expensive.


But we can discuss A)what are the environmental benefits exactly and B)are the environmental benefits worth the amount of money we are putting toward subsidies? At the moment, even if you believe A is "a lot," B could still be "no." Since the case isn't even closed on A, its hard to even argue B is a "yes."
  


These things are rarely cost effective. If it were up to gop we would have no public transportation, no high speed rail, and we would be a third world country. Sometimes you have to spend to advance our society.

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rentc said:   
meade18 said:   
Czechmeout said:   
Just because the incentive money is primarily being used by higher income people doesn't negate the environmental benefits, it just likely worked that way because the early EV cars were substantially more expensive.


But we can discuss A)what are the environmental benefits exactly and B)are the environmental benefits worth the amount of money we are putting toward subsidies? At the moment, even if you believe A is "a lot," B could still be "no." Since the case isn't even closed on A, its hard to even argue B is a "yes."
  


These things are rarely cost effective. If it were up to gop we would have no public transportation, no high speed rail, and we would be a third world country. Sometimes you have to spend to advance our society.

  
What do you mean, "these things?" With public transportation, you can point to ridership and actually determine how much of a benefit there is. Some places its more, some places its less. Plus, I'm not aware of any GOP efforts to shut down the subway systems of any major metropolitan areas. High speed rail? Why, so people can get to their vacation destinations faster? The societal benefits simply don't come close to the costs. That's why we don't have it. Can you explain the leap to 3rd world country from there? On second thought, don't. We don't need this to turn into the politics thread in off topic. Then again, that's where every Tesla thread goes, so no big surprise. 

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Why is California offering any EV rebates ? They already have a mandate that requires 10% of all sales to be EV, which forces manufacturers to subsidize EV vehicles in CA. 

Unless this raises EV sales to above 10% of total car sales, this is just a waste of CA taxpayer money that will reduce the need for manufacturers to subsize EV vehicles in CA and have NO effect on the environment.

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ananthar said:   Why is California offering any EV rebates ? They already have a mandate that requires 10% of all sales to be EV, which forces manufacturers to subsidize EV vehicles in CA. 

Unless this raises EV sales to above 10% of total car sales, this is just a waste of CA taxpayer money that will reduce the need for manufacturers to subsize EV vehicles in CA and have NO effect on the environment.

  Not going to ask that question when the elephant on the table is.

Why are the EV Credits going to pay for the High Speed Rail?

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speedracer714 said:   Say goodbye to sub $40k EV cars.
And why is that? When GA subsidized $5K which made 24-month Leaf leases totally free, Nissan didn't raise Leaf prices somehow.
$7.5K rebate from CA on top of the Federal rebate would make a lot of leases totally free. Very nice. Not that I think this is good for CA bottom-line but I'd rather get the rebate than have this money wasted on something else. 

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Yoksel said:   
speedracer714 said:   Say goodbye to sub $40k EV cars.
And why is that? When GA subsidized $5K which made 24-month Leaf leases totally free, Nissan didn't raise Leaf prices somehow.
$7.5K rebate from CA on top of the Federal rebate would make a lot of leases totally free. Very nice. Not that I think this is good for CA bottom-line but I'd rather get the rebate than have this money wasted on something else. 

  I dont know how the GA rebate was structured. But this proposal (per OP) "... would determine the size of a rebate based on equalizing the cost of an EV and a comparable gas-powered car." In short, the rebate amount will be the difference beween the cost of an EV and a similarly featured gas-powered car. So an EV dealer can raise the price of the vehicle by say $X and it will have no effect on the price paid by the customer (after rebate). The rebate program will have to come up with the extra $X. I wouldnt be surprised if this led to an increase in EV prices in the state.
 

rated:
fwuser12 said:   
Yoksel said:   
speedracer714 said:   Say goodbye to sub $40k EV cars.
And why is that? When GA subsidized $5K which made 24-month Leaf leases totally free, Nissan didn't raise Leaf prices somehow.
$7.5K rebate from CA on top of the Federal rebate would make a lot of leases totally free. Very nice. Not that I think this is good for CA bottom-line but I'd rather get the rebate than have this money wasted on something else. 

  I dont know how the GA rebate was structured. But this proposal (per OP) "... would determine the size of a rebate based on equalizing the cost of an EV and a comparable gas-powered car." In short, the rebate amount will be the difference beween the cost of an EV and a similarly featured gas-powered car. So an EV dealer can raise the price of the vehicle by say $X and it will have no effect on the price paid by the customer (after rebate). The rebate program will have to come up with the extra $X. I wouldnt be surprised if this led to an increase in EV prices in the state.

  Increased price always has effect on the customer by decreasing the rebate and thus the effective payment. I'm not too concerned about raising EV prices, this is controlled by competition.

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Stalled in the Senate,so won't be taken up again until after the Summer recess.

I cannot see how this gets through with $500 million appropriated. Less maybe. But not that much.

Ting doesn't have as many friends in the Senate as he used to.

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