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How do I keep this chargeback from happening in the future ?

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rated:
Okay so I have a fireworks retail business where we get a lot of credit transactions.  We've been trying To avoid them forcing us to switch to new chip machines because they slooooooooow. Down the process on a busy day but we just got a chargeback on a hefty amount and a re trying to figures out what you fatwalleters are doing to avoid paying those chip fees buy also not get a bunch of chargeback on legitimate charges but on swipe machines.  I guess I need a refresher course in how to get the best cresit machines when we only use them 2 weeks out of the year but youse them like heck during those two weeks?  Can someone walk me through this because it not immediately obvious to me.  Speed of our transactions is urgent during our three week business period. But I don't want to just give merchant providers money just for free.  So,I want the straight scoop from the straight poopers.  Can. Y'all help me make my way out of the forest?  I just want to take debit and credit machines quickly with relatively low fees to my bottom line.  That dang chip seems to really slow down the whole process and I make most of my money in three weeks so I can't be jacking around with this and having people just standing around waiting to give me their money. Help me someone,please???  Thanks. Marcusfan

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I'm honestly surprised at the number of merchants with EMV-enabled terminals that have no idea that quite a few of them ... (more)

linglingfool (Jul. 24, 2017 @ 4:21p) |

You sure you aren't mixing up 'Merchant' with 'Cashier who doesn't give an F***'?

And I had a terminal that took my card ... (more)

forbin4040 (Jul. 24, 2017 @ 4:26p) |

What was the amount?

pietromoon (Jul. 24, 2017 @ 9:44p) |

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rated:
Easy, stop taking credit cards.

Or
1) Stop taking Credit Cards for large amounts.
2) Chip machines are required now. If you don't have one, you open yourselves up to more avenues of Chargeback.
3) Well if you have a way to reach Visa with a PCI certified line, that's a way to avoid giving 'free money' to merchants.

And
Why is your grammar at the high school level?  I've read your other posts and you demonstrate a standard command of the English Language.

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That was a pain to read. Nothing more to add.

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Get more chip readers so you can process multiple transactions simultaneously.
Raise your prices 2%-3% to cover the cost of transaction processing.

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I've never seen a sign for maximum amount required to pay by credit card. It's always minimum.

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Agree to get more readers, hell, if you have to start using square or something like that to get the readers inexpensively do so.

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Optimize your prices for faster cash transactions. Include sales tax and price everything on .25 increments, or .50 or 1.00 if you can make that work. Customers will be much more likely to choose cash for a $40 transaction over a $39.17 one. Avoids the credit process and expenses, and makes the cash payments simpler and less error-prone.

I'm not sure what the basis would be for a card-present chargeback, especially if you're using the new chip systems. And while I understand environments where speed is critical and the chip process has been a big step back in that regard, I do think for the most part credit card fees are worth what they provide you. More customers spending more, but also much less cash to have at risk and deal with. Like forbin said, if you think the fees are expensive, no one is making you accept credit cards.

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SlimTim said:   I'm not sure what the basis would be for a card-present chargeback, especially if you're using the new chip systems. 
  He isn't using the chip cards, which is why he got the chargeback.  

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forbin4040 said:   
Why is your grammar at the high school level?  I've read your other posts and you demonstrate a standard command of the English Language.

  op has a fireworks store, maybe Op missing fingers and has to type like that. don't judge

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rufflesinc said:   
forbin4040 said:   
Why is your grammar at the high school level?  I've read your other posts and you demonstrate a standard command of the English Language.

  op has a fireworks store, maybe Op missing fingers and has to type like that. don't judge

  Or FWF isn't full of the "straight poopers"(???) OP is seeking advice from.

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When it works the first time (about 75% of the time), NFC payment via Android Pay on my phone authorizes in a fraction of the time it takes the same machine to authorize a chip transaction.
Everyone is dealing with slow chip readers now, it's an inconvenience but widespread enough that you're not going to lose customers over it.

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Thread Subject said: How do I keep this chargeback from happening in the future ?
forbin4040 said:   Easy, stop taking credit cards.
this

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qcumber98 said:   I've never seen a sign for maximum amount required to pay by credit card. It's always minimum.
  Try using a credit card for buying a car.

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JepJepJep said:   
qcumber98 said:   I've never seen a sign for maximum amount required to pay by credit card. It's always minimum.
  Try using a credit card for buying a car.

  I have.  The salesman said $3K but it's not his call.  The finance guy let me put $5K and they don't have a sign.

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qcumber98 said:   
JepJepJep said:   
qcumber98 said:   I've never seen a sign for maximum amount required to pay by credit card. It's always minimum.
  Try using a credit card for buying a car.

  I have.  The salesman said $3K but it's not his call.  The finance guy let me put $5K and they don't have a sign.

  I believe that if they offer credit cards for parts or service, they are required to take credit cards for a car purchase. but they set an upper limit (mine was 3k) to limit a chargeback.

rated:
forbin4040 said:   
qcumber98 said:   
JepJepJep said:   
qcumber98 said:   I've never seen a sign for maximum amount required to pay by credit card. It's always minimum.
  Try using a credit card for buying a car.

  I have.  The salesman said $3K but it's not his call.  The finance guy let me put $5K and they don't have a sign.

  I believe that if they offer credit cards for parts or service, they are required to take credit cards for a car purchase. but they set an upper limit (mine was 3k) to limit a chargeback.

  That's when your checking account happens to only have [amount-$Xk] in it and you ask if they want you to leave and come back in 3 business days when more funds transfer in to complete the sale or just accept your larger credit card payment.  They WILL NOT delay the sale over ~$10/$1000 in fees, coming out to only a few $10s for a few $1000.

They were straight and said they discourage credit cards to limit their CC fees, no "limit chargeback" nonsense.  (Said $3k and easily pushed to $5k)

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Square?

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Logan71 said:   Square?
  There is no way a Square terminal can beat out a real terminal in speed.

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forbin4040 said:   
Logan71 said:   Square?
  There is no way a Square terminal can beat out a real terminal in speed.

  op must be selling a lot of fireworks to be worried about checkout speed

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rufflesinc said:   
forbin4040 said:   
Logan71 said:   Square?
  There is no way a Square terminal can beat out a real terminal in speed.

  op must be selling a lot of fireworks to be worried about checkout speed

  That's what he said in the OP post.
Or I THINK that's what he said...

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Open more registers. Would you shop at a grocery store that only had one?

Square on an iPad with a solid internet connection is pretty fast, even with a chip card. Just raise your prices 3%. I doubt fireworks buyers are that price-sensitive anyway.

I would bet having a newer system that accepts EMV is going to pay for itself quickly in reduced magstripe chargebacks.

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Sorry guys I typed that on my phone and it obviously autocorrected. Speed is critical on July 3 and 4. We have 30-40 people in line at each register waiting to pay and about 70% are credit. Square is way slower than a terminal. We are going to have to give this some serious thought like maybe use a chip reader over a certain dollar amount or something. I appreciate the constructive comments.

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Ask your credit card merchant services company if you can do very short term seasonal equipment rental. I have no idea how common an option that is, but even at a big premium, it may be worthwhile if you think people are looking at your checkout line and bailing out. If they're big enough, they've got other merchants with busy seasons at other times.

Long ago, I worked with merchants with big enough margins and a very finite window on customer interest that if the credit card (or networked registers) had any communication problem, they were set to just keep collecting transaction info and hoping for the best later when everything was able to be settled up.

And Square may still be an effective option if it just gives you more bandwidth at virtually no hardware cost.

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I'm actually really surprised that OP was able to rent a non chip terminal last month. Chip Terminals have been required for about 2 years so far.

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Not all chip readers are slow. Work with your payment processor and test out other equipment.

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gnopgnip said:   Not all chip readers are slow. Work with your payment processor and test out other equipment.
  OP implies they are a temp place.  Hard to 'work with the payment processor'.

Also I just realized, Apple Pay and Android pay are lightning fast compared to a chip system.

rated:
Just some thoughts...

Open a cash only line. If that line is shorter it will motivate people to pay cash to save time. Or have an employee walk down the line saying if you pay cash I will help you right now.

Have an employee with a tablet/phone chip machine walk down the line an check out any people with less than xx items. Should save time unloading items from carts, bagging, etc. Hand the customer some bags and let them handle that.

Particularly large purchases get brought straight to a manager for immediate (and more thorough) checkout.

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OP, how many registers do you operate on July 4? How many additional employees do you have that could be checking people out? How much space do you have for more registers?

If you can't budge on those questions above, then terminal speed is absolutely critical and you are stuck in a tough spot. If you can budge on those things, the consensus is that is a more efficient way of checking people out quicker than worrying about the terminals.

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I have noticed that some of the chip processing times that used to be very slow (CVS, Home Depot) have gotten much faster. In the beginning, it would take 20ish seconds to approve, now it is only a few seconds.

Not sure if the software or network is now faster, but it is certainly possible to process transactions relatively quickly.

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More often now, I just wonder about the future of humanity. Screwing over small business like this. Just last month, there was a story on Bloomberg on chargeback:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-27/it-s-easier-t...

A few Domino’s customers might have different ideas, though. “How to get free pizza: 1. order, 2. get it, 3. chargeback,” wrote someone called Sweatshirttttt on Twitter. “Ez pizza.”

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ZenNUTS said:   More often now, I just wonder about the future of humanity. Screwing over small business like this. Just last month, there was a story on Bloomberg on chargeback:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-27/it-s-easier-than-ever-to-dispute-a-credit-card-charge-and-retailers-hate-it

A few Domino’s customers might have different ideas, though. “How to get free pizza: 1. order, 2. get it, 3. chargeback, 4. Get cards "closed by issuer" and banned from obtaining credit cards in the future because you're a freaking moron,” wrote someone called Sweatshirttttt on Twitter. “Ez pizza.”

  Ftfy

rated:
ZenNUTS said:   More often now, I just wonder about the future of humanity. Screwing over small business like this. Just last month, there was a story on Bloomberg on chargeback:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-27/it-s-easier-than-ever-to-dispute-a-credit-card-charge-and-retailers-hate-it

A few Domino’s customers might have different ideas, though. “How to get free pizza: 1. order, 2. get it, 3. chargeback,” wrote someone called Sweatshirttttt on Twitter. “Ez pizza.”

  
That works once.  Then it gets put in the system as a bad customer and they don't get any more pizza.   Dominos does a pretty good job of positive tracking of their customers - when you call in your last 2-3 orders show up on the order entry screen.  Seriously, you CAN just say "I will take the same as last time" and the order is put in.

I drove pizza a little while on the weekends when I made the mistake of taking a union-based job which didn't pay as well as you would expect and didn't allow overtime and management was a PITA -- what I felt when I was let go was RELIEF, not anger or fear.  I made more on the weekends than I expected to, even after bumping my car insurance up to cover the additional liability.  And yes, the drivers knew who tipped well and those pizzas were delivered FIRST regardless of how "aged" the others were.  You also get more ingredients if you order "in store" because they know you are watching them make your pizza.  I kept the pizza job when I went back to sales...  until I finally got a better technical job and started travelling installations.   Ate a lot of cheap pizza, we got to make our own...

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Those are some good ideas. We are limited on space and the ability to add more registers based on a state statute designating minimum aisle size for egress in case of fire.

I did notice yesterday though that Walgreens chip machine was very fast. Of course the employees knew nothing about it but that does give me some hope as I begin further research.

We are still using terminals that we own. Although the bank told us 2 years ago that we had to switch to chip machines, every season they tell us the deadline has been delayed.

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marcusfan said:   Those are some good ideas. We are limited on space and the ability to add more registers based on a state statute designating minimum aisle size for egress in case of fire.
 

  

Ain't no fires in firework stores.  Explosions, yes.  But no fires.

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marcusfan said:   Those are some good ideas. We are limited on space and the ability to add more registers based on a state statute designating minimum aisle size for egress in case of fire.

I did notice yesterday though that Walgreens chip machine was very fast. Of course the employees knew nothing about it but that does give me some hope as I begin further research.

We are still using terminals that we own. Although the bank told us 2 years ago that we had to switch to chip machines, every season they tell us the deadline has been delayed.

Looks like there are some software updates/algorithm changes that could significantly speed up transactions. Not clear how broadly these are rolled out:
https://www.cardfellow.com/quick-chip-slow-chip-card-transactions/

rated:
BostonOne said:   
marcusfan said:   Those are some good ideas. We are limited on space and the ability to add more registers based on a state statute designating minimum aisle size for egress in case of fire.

I did notice yesterday though that Walgreens chip machine was very fast. Of course the employees knew nothing about it but that does give me some hope as I begin further research.

We are still using terminals that we own. Although the bank told us 2 years ago that we had to switch to chip machines, every season they tell us the deadline has been delayed.

Looks like there are some software updates/algorithm changes that could significantly speed up transactions. Not clear how broadly these are rolled out:
https://www.cardfellow.com/quick-chip-slow-chip-card-transactions/

  You are aware that OP doesn't have a chip reader right?

Now I understand OP is using some old terminals that he owns and the processor let them.
OP as long as you keep using those old terminals then you will assume 100% responsibility if the owner of the card says 'fraud'.  Just keep that in mind for the future.  I know those terminals are expensive, but as you posted, 1 chargeback for fraud wrecked your day.
 

rated:
forbin4040 said:   
BostonOne said:   
marcusfan said:   Those are some good ideas. We are limited on space and the ability to add more registers based on a state statute designating minimum aisle size for egress in case of fire.

I did notice yesterday though that Walgreens chip machine was very fast. Of course the employees knew nothing about it but that does give me some hope as I begin further research.

We are still using terminals that we own. Although the bank told us 2 years ago that we had to switch to chip machines, every season they tell us the deadline has been delayed.

Looks like there are some software updates/algorithm changes that could significantly speed up transactions. Not clear how broadly these are rolled out:
https://www.cardfellow.com/quick-chip-slow-chip-card-transactions/

  You are aware that OP doesn't have a chip reader right?

Now I understand OP is using some old terminals that he owns and the processor let them.
OP as long as you keep using those old terminals then you will assume 100% responsibility if the owner of the card says 'fraud'.  Just keep that in mind for the future.  I know those terminals are expensive, but as you posted, 1 chargeback for fraud wrecked your day.

Yes, I'm aware.
You're aware that one of the reasons OP doesn't have a chip reader is that he is concerned about how long chip transactions take, right?

rated:
BostonOne said:   
forbin4040 said:   
BostonOne said:   
marcusfan said:   Those are some good ideas. We are limited on space and the ability to add more registers based on a state statute designating minimum aisle size for egress in case of fire.

I did notice yesterday though that Walgreens chip machine was very fast. Of course the employees knew nothing about it but that does give me some hope as I begin further research.

We are still using terminals that we own. Although the bank told us 2 years ago that we had to switch to chip machines, every season they tell us the deadline has been delayed.

Looks like there are some software updates/algorithm changes that could significantly speed up transactions. Not clear how broadly these are rolled out:
https://www.cardfellow.com/quick-chip-slow-chip-card-transactions/

  You are aware that OP doesn't have a chip reader right?

Now I understand OP is using some old terminals that he owns and the processor let them.
OP as long as you keep using those old terminals then you will assume 100% responsibility if the owner of the card says 'fraud'.  Just keep that in mind for the future.  I know those terminals are expensive, but as you posted, 1 chargeback for fraud wrecked your day.

Yes, I'm aware.
You're aware that one of the reasons OP doesn't have a chip reader is that he is concerned about how long chip transactions take, right?

  Almost every business decision is weighing costs and benefits.

Cost (including time/staffing if it will take longer) with new chip readers exceeds expected chargebacks?  OP should stick with current readers and expect to continue to incur the chargeback costs.

Expected chargebacks exceed time/staffing costs to move to new readers?  OP should move to the new readers.

You can't expect to have your cake and eat it too.  You can't make 0 chargebacks while actively decoding to use insecure readers that encourage fraud through cloned magstripes.

rated:
Do you have to scan all the fireworks at a register like a grocer? If not, maybe do like an Apple Store and have some roving employees with handheld terminals like square or PayPal Here pull people out of line and process them. I don't see any easy solution to increasing your checkout throughput without adding more employees and payment terminals, but the rovers wouldn't interfere with your aisle setup.

Alternatively, try to shift some demand to off-peak times. Maybe offer a modest discount or a free Roman candle

Skipping 3 Messages...
rated:
marcusfan said:   on a hefty amount 
  
What was the amount?

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