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Any way to fight against deceptive medical providers?

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*UPDATE* I learned from this LA Times article this is a common billing shenanigan to extract more revenue out of patients.
For the goodness I encourage everyone to read this article before going to a preventive care visit, especially the suggestion at the end.
http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-obamacare-physicals-20160802-snap-story.html 

Also,  I have received a copy of the health records from the office and found some new info.
1st.  My wife did clearly sign and request we only wanted standard annual checks not office visit,  the form says if she chose to have both annual check(on the form) and diagnosis of a known issue there may be additional charges.  However the doctor was "interviewing for pain"  despite what she requested.

2nd.  The doctor did document everything came out fine and my daughter is healthy as she could tell.  Yet she prescribed a visit to a heart specialist.  (very much like
what's written in the la times article.  )  According to my wife she did not do any diagnosis related to any potential heart issues outside of standard listening for heart beat like every other doctor does in preventive checks.

3rd,  the only other "treatment"  she prescribed was to visit one of the two "Counselling psychologists"  that also work for the same clinic. (basically upselling to get more $$)

Finally,  the majority of  the "preventive care" medical record contain things like wake up at 7AM, go to sleep at 9PM, eat bread and egg for breakfast and multiple pages of things like that.  I don't think it requires a doctor to do such interviews.... 
*
We made an appointment for my daughter's routine preventive check with a comprehensive health provider (kind of a clinic with extra health programs) and the doctor asked a lot of questions which we assumed we had no choice but to answer.
However by "answering" those questions,  (one of the answer was she had some chest pain apparently from doing exercises) we were shocked that they billed a $225 "office visit fee". After insurance discount it still comes down to $93.  The doctor did absolutely nothing and she's relatively young with only a few years of experiences.  I really don't want to pay this unexpected and unasked for "service".  What are our options to dispute against this bogus and deceptive charge? 

Thanks for any feedbacks in advance.
 

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You think that doctors should learn billing for each and every type of insurance in addition to the skills they have to ... (more)

marcopolomle (Aug. 08, 2017 @ 7:50p) |

I'm not expecting them to say "This will cost an extra $52.75", but "This goes beyond what is covered by your annual pre... (more)

doveroftke (Aug. 08, 2017 @ 8:43p) |

The issue is if the client doesn't authorize you to do the work and damages his situation in the future, no one is going... (more)

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Sounds like they scheduled you for a office visit instead of a checkup. Call the office and tell them to rebill as a Preventive Checkup.

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forbin4040 said:   Sounds like they scheduled you for a office visit instead of a checkup. Call the office and tell them to rebill as a Preventive Checkup.
  Thanks.  But they billed BOTH preventive and office visit on the same bill for the same service.  So they already got the money from the insurance yet they want more money from us.
  I've done 3 preventive care visits and all other providers only charged for preventive care unless I did some more not covered tests in follow up visits. If we did that I would have been okay with the charge.. Also I found on yelp someone else complained that they billed her an extra fee for "prolonged" office visit on top of a regular visit.
They were referred to a specialist and the specialist said their kid was totally fine. So it appears to me such questionable practice has been the standard there....We should have checked in advance...
 

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as I said, call them. Sometimes people do make mistakes

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forbin4040 said:   as I said, call them. Sometimes people do make mistakes
 

  I called and escalated to their office manager and she insisted the charge is justified and audited by outside auditors.....I'm wondering what other options are available?
I don't think it is reasonable to ask my insurance company to cover such bogus charges. Thanks.

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Look at your EOB - there is a way to dispute via your insurance company if you have already attempted to resolve on your own with the office. Although I haven't had great results from those disputes.

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ryoung81 said:   Look at your EOB - there is a way to dispute via your insurance company if you have already attempted to resolve on your own with the office. Although I haven't had great results from those disputes.
  Thanks.  I will try. Although I know it is unlikely the insurance company can do much.  (since it is the provider asking for money from me not from insurance.)
  I did find a similar case though and it may be helpful to others:
  Why you get 2 bills for 1 visit to the doctor
  http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/health-family/article9097439.html 
But at least the author's doctor was very reasonable:
Quote:
"I objected, believing that I should have been able to talk about cholesterol at a preventive exam. My doctor pretty much agreed. And because I hadn’t been made aware in advance of the second charge, he deleted it from my bill."
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/health-family/article909... 

the difference between our case and what's written in the story is that we did not bring up anything.  We were simply charged because we answered a series of questions the doctor asked, assuming that is part of the preventive care that we requested.  That's why this practice is highly questionable and we were not given any appropriate warning in advance.  That is very lack of transparency.
 

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Report them to state insurance commissioner for suspected insurance fraud due to duplicate insurance billing for same service.

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Not sure what the total charge was but if it's 93 then that's actually reasonable for an office visit

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I've said it before and I'll say it again here.

Sometimes it just seems better to die of health problems than deal with the medical industry.

Just one time, ask a medical office "what is this going to cost?" Hell, they cannot even tell you if it will be in network.

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dhodson said:   Not sure what the total charge was but if it's 93 then that's actually reasonable for an office visit
  If we really requested an office visit that would have been absolutely fine.
 But we scheduled a "routine preventive check"  and they slapped a $93 on top of $138 the insurance paid them. (for the record the total claim against insurance was $500+ but reduced to 138 and 93 making it $231 total.)  They did not provide any actual "office visit service" for "an existing issue"  except for asking a long list of questions which we didn't request and assumed was part of the service.  There is a severe lack of transparency.  My previous provider got $153 from my insurance for my own preventive check and that was it.  If he discovers a potential issue he usually asks me to schedule a follow up service which I gladly paid for.  My issue is not the amount but the deceptive practice of billing for something we did not request or get.
If we had an actual issue or received a real service (like when one of the family members have a flu or any kind of sickness)  I would have been totally fine even if they bill $500+. (assuming reasonable for the service provided.)

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Sorry, man. Someone has to pay for the doctor's porsche & big house & boat & mistress and his kids college. Guess you're that person.

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Meanwhile, politicians decide whether or not to undo the previous health care bill instead of dealing with actual issues like this that drive up costs for everyone -- and show that, for 100 reasons, health care does not work like a normal "free market" service like buying a fidget spinner.

As wilesmt says, even asking an in-network doctor / billing staff how much something will cost is met with a shrug and "we'll bill you later." So no free market principles apply.

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Sure, you could file an appeal with your health insurance company. Just write them a letter saying "this was billed wrong, here's why, please fix it." No promises, but it's inexpensive to file.

Last time I went to an annual checkup with my primary care provider, I signed a form about billing which said roughly "hey, just so you know, an annual physical is preventive care and is usually covered with no copay or deductible by insurance policies. But if during an annual physical you disclose any illnesses you've noticed, we're going to document that, and then our EMR system is going to bill this as an ordinary office visit, which health insurance companies usually cover at a different rate. Please sign here to acknowledge that you understand this."

I did understand this, and signed the form, but I'm sure a lot of people don't get this disclaimer. I'm not sure I like it as a billing practice; definitely feels shady.

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cr3s said:   Sorry, man. Someone has to pay for the doctor's porsche & big house & boat & mistress and her kids college. Guess you're that person.
 


FTFY

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"hey, just so you know, an annual physical is preventive care and is usually covered with no copay or deductible by insurance policies. But if during an annual physical you disclose any illnesses you've noticed, we're going to document that, and then our EMR system is going to bill this as an ordinary office visit, which health insurance companies usually cover at a different rate. Please sign here to acknowledge that you understand

Once there is a "problem" it can (but does not have to) become an office visit. If the "problem" is trivial like yes I have a runny nose from seasonal allergies then the PRIMARY diagnosis can be a preventive visit (which is what the insurance company pays for) and and the seasonal rhinitis is secondary. If it is a serious diagnosis then your stuck.

I think she should not have billed for both only for the office visit once there was "a problem".

I also think the doctor may have been "interviewing for pain" (keep asking questions until they admit to something). But it could also be she is very compulsive and through. If that's the case you might actually want her to care for your daughter if she were ill.

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GADOM said:   "hey, just so you know, an annual physical is preventive care and is usually covered with no copay or deductible by insurance policies. But if during an annual physical you disclose any illnesses you've noticed, we're going to document that, and then our EMR system is going to bill this as an ordinary office visit, which health insurance companies usually cover at a different rate. Please sign here to acknowledge that you understand

Once there is a "problem" it can (but does not have to) become an office visit. If the "problem" is trivial like yes I have a runny nose from seasonal allergies then the PRIMARY diagnosis can be a preventive visit (which is what the insurance company pays for) and and the seasonal rhinitis is secondary. If it is a serious diagnosis then your stuck.

I think she should not have billed for both only for the office visit once there was "a problem".

I also think the doctor may have been "interviewing for pain" (keep asking questions until they admit to something). But it could also be she is very compulsive and through. If that's the case you might actually want her to care for your daughter if she were ill.

 It sounds like "interviewing for pain".  I would never visit a doctor who overbill during the first visit.   That completely loses my trust.  I fired a dentist just like after a first visit.
( she performed an expensive comprehensive x-ray without any consent or justification and charged to my dental during first visit --which was fully covered but only allowed every 5 years, and then attempted to sell 2 more $500 services that I would have to pay out of pocket,  when I rejected she said what if she gives me a discount on those.   My dentist does not think those services were really justified and always try to look for solutions that are not overly expensive unless there are no other options. So when she actually recommends something expensive I know she is being honest. )  I cannot use a provider that is deceptive whom I cannot trust in the long run.  They can cheat me once but not forever.  Not everyone needs Cadillac services.

 I have a doctor and a dentist for myself that I've been visiting for many years.  They are extremely reasonable and only bill "necessary services".  Since I'm relatively healthy I visit them only for routine checks.  However if I have a big health issue they are the people who I would go to even if I have to pay thousands because I trust them and they would suggest what's good for my physical health at a reasonable prices not   what's best for their own wallets.
 I used to do customer facing work too(not anymore)  if I bill my customers like this clinic I would have lost many repeating customers.
I feel sad so many providers today are only into quick bucks and don't care about long term relationships at all. So short-sighted.  I always did the opposite when I had a customer facing role.

 

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mherdegg said:   Sure, you could file an appeal with your health insurance company. Just write them a letter saying "this was billed wrong, here's why, please fix it." No promises, but it's inexpensive to file.

Last time I went to an annual checkup with my primary care provider, I signed a form about billing which said roughly "hey, just so you know, an annual physical is preventive care and is usually covered with no copay or deductible by insurance policies. But if during an annual physical you disclose any illnesses you've noticed, we're going to document that, and then our EMR system is going to bill this as an ordinary office visit, which health insurance companies usually cover at a different rate. Please sign here to acknowledge that you understand this."

I did understand this, and signed the form, but I'm sure a lot of people don't get this disclaimer. I'm not sure I like it as a billing practice; definitely feels shady.

  This is exacty right. Not to make a political statement, but this is the stupidity of the current ACA/Medicare reglation on preventative care visits. Everybody gets a free one every year - but if you actually have the audacity to have an actual medical problem, and the further audacity to raise said problem during said free visit, the visit ceases to be a free preventative visit and becomes a routine office visit.

Now what is unusual in my experience with the OP's story is the billing for both a preventative and an office visit. That should not be permitted. It is either one or the other. So if you want, you should petition to have them reverse the charge on the preventative visit, and pay the office visit charge. The latter is justified, but the former is no longer.

Then you should make another office appontment as a 'preventative visit', and shoot the shit with the doc and whenever they ask you if you've had any chest pain, or any sleep problems, or any mood problems, or any diarrhea, or any weight gain or weight loss, etc., you should tell them, "I would like to answer that question honestly but then you will charge me for an office visit and I am just here for a preventative visit. So I'll just say no."

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GADOM said:   "hey, just so you know, an annual physical is preventive care and is usually covered with no copay or deductible by insurance policies. But if during an annual physical you disclose any illnesses you've noticed, we're going to document that, and then our EMR system is going to bill this as an ordinary office visit, which health insurance companies usually cover at a different rate. Please sign here to acknowledge that you understand

Once there is a "problem" it can (but does not have to) become an office visit. If the "problem" is trivial like yes I have a runny nose from seasonal allergies then the PRIMARY diagnosis can be a preventive visit (which is what the insurance company pays for) and and the seasonal rhinitis is secondary. If it is a serious diagnosis then your stuck.

I think she should not have billed for both only for the office visit once there was "a problem".

I also think the doctor may have been "interviewing for pain" (keep asking questions until they admit to something). But it could also be she is very compulsive and through. If that's the case you might actually want her to care for your daughter if she were ill.

Your  comment, "But if during an annual physical you disclose any illnesses you've noticed"  is helpful and worth noting.   I had a similar experience a couple of years ago where my answer during an annual "wellness" examine question resulted in a change to the billing code.   I'm not blaming the doctor's office.  They recorded my answer correctly.  I was subsequently told by my insurance agent that my insurer reimburses doctors differently based upon "existing" vs. "preventative" visits.   This policy on behalf of the insurer seemed silly to me - I would think the insurer would want to encourage the patient to fully disclose any issues/problems during an annual physical exam that might be a potential sign of a future serious illness.
 

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Sounds like one of those mall-clinic. good place to get your drugs, not good place to see a doctor that gives a damn.

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ZenNUTS said:   Sounds like one of those mall-clinic. good place to get your drugs, not good place to see a doctor that gives a damn.
  
If the office manager won't budge at all, make sure you put up bad yelp review - that will get their attention. Not exactly the same thing - but I had a problem with a local car wash and the corp office said that the local chapter will get in touch with me. Nothing happened. So I wrote a bad review and then suddenly they are contacting me to resolve the issue. - stupid - they had to resolve the problem and got a bad review as a bonus.

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Happens to me all the time with my son's pediatricians. They will find the slightest question to ask, like oh, he has a rash or scratch there and double bill for preventive care and office visit. After I complained they still double bill the insurance to get more money, but don't balance bill what is not covered.

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View said:   
ryoung81 said:   Look at your EOB - there is a way to dispute via your insurance company if you have already attempted to resolve on your own with the office. Although I haven't had great results from those disputes.
  Thanks.  I will try. Although I know it is unlikely the insurance company can do much.  (since it is the provider asking for money from me not from insurance.)


OP, the insurance company CAN still get involved on bills where the provider is asking you for money after they already got the money they wanted from the insurance company and it's now just the bill between you and them that is in question. It is normal for the insurance comapny to get involved if something has been classified unfairly or incorrectly.
(I am not saying that they will automatically agree with your opinion that the "office visit" charge was unfair or sneaky, but if they do agree, they will certainly raise the objection with the provider on your behalf.)

I've won many disputes that I've initiated with my insurance company and with some providers in the last few years (because they have been in the wrong; I wouldn't have disputed something in the first place unless I was pretty sure that what had happened was a mistake or unfair.) I had to take a couple of my disputes to the "second appeal" stage, but that is not difficult.

Just be confident, be polite, write everything down, take notes on your conversations and letters, put things in writing, etc. There are other threads here where folks have gone into detail about the process to take.

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ftwftw said:   Happens to me all the time with my son's pediatricians. They will find the slightest question to ask, like oh, he has a rash or scratch there and double bill for preventive care and office visit. After I complained they still double bill the insurance to get more money, but don't balance bill what is not covered.
  Then what is the real purpose of the Preventive Care visit?  If there is absolutely nothing wrong, why bother to go at all?  

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PrincipalMember said:   
ZenNUTS said:   Sounds like one of those mall-clinic. good place to get your drugs, not good place to see a doctor that gives a damn.
  
If the office manager won't budge at all, make sure you put up bad yelp review - that will get their attention. Not exactly the same thing - but I had a problem with a local car wash and the corp office said that the local chapter will get in touch with me. Nothing happened. So I wrote a bad review and then suddenly they are contacting me to resolve the issue. - stupid - they had to resolve the problem and got a bad review as a bonus.

  
+1 on this. Put them on blast on both Yelp and Google reviews.

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There is a mobile app where you pay a $99 flat fee for a Board-certified physician to come to your home.  I will never go to the doctor's office ever again.

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View said:   
 
  I called and escalated to their office manager and she insisted the charge is justified and audited by outside auditors.....I'm wondering what other options are available?
I don't think it is reasonable to ask my insurance company to cover such bogus charges. Thanks.

  Don't call, put your concerns in writing and send them to the doctor. They don't like dealing with issues like this.

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Call your insurer and tell them you want to report FRAUD.  Make sure you use the word fraud.  The insurer will likely make a big deal and the bill will go away.

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Another way to go which doesn't really help the issues we have with health care is to tell the provider if they waive your portion of the service, you won't contest it with your insurance company. At least that way, they get something for nothing and may do it to make it go away.

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aadam101 said:   Call your insurer and tell them you want to report FRAUD.  Make sure you use the word fraud.  The insurer will likely make a big deal and the bill will go away.
Just my two cents - and I know everyone's experience is different.

I have tried to fight a few cases of - what to me seemed like obvious - over billing. It never went anywhere. I got stonewalled both by insurance and by the providers. In one most egregious case, after making countless phone calls, I finally got through to somebody way high up, who finally admitted the mistake and got the charge removed; but that same charge came back one year later "after a review of my account."

If you are not desperate - and I hope you are not - eat the loss, and remember to never use the same provider again. 

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cr3s said:   Sorry, man. Someone has to pay for the doctor's porsche & big house & boat & mistress and his kids college. Guess you're that person.
  
This is very true.

I used to be that person for a doctor in town.  I left that practice and made sure to tell everyone I knew not to use him.  A few years later I found out he had moved to a smaller practice.. maybe my negative comments worked!

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qcumber98 said:   There is a mobile app where you pay a $99 flat fee for a Board-certified physician to come to your home.  I will never go to the doctor's office ever again.
  
Which app is this?

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Possibility a little off topic, but related to deceptive billing in my mind.

My daughter recently injured her elbow which required a cast. I have an HD plan so I expected it to be pricey. I got the bill and it would up being $640 after insurance for the 5 min visit with the orthopedic doc who didn't do anything but wiggle her arm and order a cast (I guess and review her xrays which were taken at the children's hospital since she hurt herself over the weekend). I called to ask why it was billed that much and was told my daughter is now under the orthopedic's care for 90 days and it is a all inclusive fee. She said it covers any future visits/issues (visit only, not supplies for new casts, xrays or anything) for the full 90 days but my daughters arm was relatively minor and will likely mean only a follow up visit to remove the cast. I am not sure what the going rate for an orthopedic doctor is, but $300 after insurance seems steep for an office visit (assuming two visits).

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hairybeast said:   Possibility a little off topic, but related to deceptive billing in my mind.

My daughter recently injured her elbow which required a cast. I have an HD plan so I expected it to be pricey. I got the bill and it would up being $640 after insurance for the 5 min visit with the orthopedic doc who didn't do anything but wiggle her arm and order a cast (I guess and review her xrays which were taken at the children's hospital since she hurt herself over the weekend). I called to ask why it was billed that much and was told my daughter is now under the orthopedic's care for 90 days and it is a all inclusive fee. She said it covers any future visits/issues (visit only, not supplies for new casts, xrays or anything) for the full 90 days but my daughters arm was relatively minor and will likely mean only a follow up visit to remove the cast. I am not sure what the going rate for an orthopedic doctor is, but $300 after insurance seems steep for an office visit (assuming two visits).

  
I don't think that is too egregious.  non-docs might think that the doc is just wiggling her arm, but they are trained to know how it is supposed to wiggle and if anything is happening with it.  Was the cost broken down to you?  The ortho doc could be charging $200-$250, then it's the xray at $150 (could be more since in a hospital), and possibly a radiologist to look at it too (they need to pay for their yachts too).  Probabaly another $200-$250 for the follow up, rest for putting on the cast.

And this is coming from me, someone who hates drs to the core.  They are lyin sums of beeches.

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hairybeast said:   $640 after insurance for the 5 min visit with the orthopedic doc who didn't do anything but wiggle her arm and order a cast
 

  
Cast - $30
Arm wiggle - $25
Knowing how to perform arm wiggle - $585

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Has anyone noticed that younger doctors (who probably have larger and fresher loans to pay off) are more inclined to do this?

My dentist as well as GP are old. And I have not had any issues with her.

Two times in the past, I went to a younger dentist who was just establishing a practice. One had a offer for $35 for cleaning ; the other time it was for free.
Both times, they did a bunch of x-rays and kept telling me that I need to go for a large treatment. ( I didn't have a problem with that. I understand that the service was free in order to generate more business).
But one dentist REFUSED to perform regular cleaning. She gave me some BS about how she cannot do regular cleanup unless I do the "deep clean". The other did cursory cleaning.
So I basically wasted $35 and got irradiated with x-ray for nothing.

After that, I stick to my older dentist even though it is $100+ for regular cleaning.

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hairybeast said:   Possibility a little off topic, but related to deceptive billing in my mind.

My daughter recently injured her elbow which required a cast. I have an HD plan so I expected it to be pricey. I got the bill and it would up being $640 after insurance for the 5 min visit with the orthopedic doc who didn't do anything but wiggle her arm and order a cast (I guess and review her xrays which were taken at the children's hospital since she hurt herself over the weekend). I called to ask why it was billed that much and was told my daughter is now under the orthopedic's care for 90 days and it is a all inclusive fee. She said it covers any future visits/issues (visit only, not supplies for new casts, xrays or anything) for the full 90 days but my daughters arm was relatively minor and will likely mean only a follow up visit to remove the cast. I am not sure what the going rate for an orthopedic doctor is, but $300 after insurance seems steep for an office visit (assuming two visits).

  I believe medical costs vary a lot between providers and the negotiated rates with insurance make it even more complex.   My primary doctor charges only $128 for an EKG and as an experienced doctor who served in the VA hospital he could do it in his office. But some other specialist quoted the price of $500.   I do not think my primary doctor even charges $500 without insurance. 
  I again checked my previous preventive care EOB for my daughter.  Two different doctors in the past 2 years both charged 0 to me and were just reimbursed by the insurance.
  From I can tell the service is exactly the same and those two doctors both have more than 15 years of experience each compare to this expensive doctor who only graduated in 2012.
  The only reason we switched doctor is because we don't want to do preventive checks for a 10 years old girl with male doctors.  However this female doctor is the worst we ever had in our entire lives and she is probably the youngest doctor we ever used.
  
 
  
 

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Daughter had problem with ankle, doctor wrapped it in stretchy wrap and billed insurance for surgery. I complained all the way up the insurance chain to no avail. Daughter would proclaim she was "doing surgery" every time she wrapped her ankle. Never went back.

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ssgcinty said:   Has anyone noticed that younger doctors (who probably have larger and fresher loans to pay off) are more inclined to do this?

...

  
No.  I've seen zero correlation between billing practices and the age of the doctor.

 

Skipping 82 Messages...
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AlwaysWrite said:   
 
Yes, that's absolutely right, and that's how it works in every other industry or service in a free-market capitalist economy (so long as we're stuck treating healthcare like any other free-market good, which it's obviously not).

You bring your car in for a brake job, they call you and tell you that your rotors are warped, it's a safety issue, they strongly recommend you change them for $XXX, and you say yes or no. They can't just replace them then hit you with a bill later that is triple your estimate.

I'm an attorney chatting with a client. Some issue comes up. You think I can just say "Hey, I just decided to go ahead and do 12 hours of research and file this brief and sue this company for you, the bill is $XX,XXX?" No. You advise them of the issue and your recommendation, and tell them how much it will cost to resolve (or give an estimate and hourly rate if hourly), and they choose to go ahead or not. I don't just get to write up wills for clients because I think it's a great idea, then send them a bill for whatever I want.

Heck, if a waitress at Applebee's can tell me that the blue cheese dressing is an extra 50 cents and ask if I still want it, I think doctors can handle this skill as well.

The issue is if the client doesn't authorize you to do the work and damages his situation in the future, no one is going to come to you and say "you had a moral and ethical obligation to investigate further".  Patient tells his doc he's been having chest pains.  Doc says, "just so you know, if I proceed, it'll be a separate charge".  Patient says "you know, money's really tight right now, let's not".  Doc even has the patient sign a informed refusal form.  1 month later, the patient dies from a heart attack.  Family decides to sue the physician.  What would you think if you were a juror and heard the defense as "well, the patient didn't want to proceed due to inability to pay?".  You the juror would have thought "well the doc could have asked some more questions (was the doctor negligent in his moral and ethical obligation to put the patient's health first regardless of inability to pay?)"

Medical students have NO training in reimbursement.  The general concept being we're teaching future doctors to focus on what they think is best for the patient's health and not to be businesspeople (and that's why so many doctors fail in business).  The corruption of money and insurances comes after training.  Doctors also don't bill "by the hour".  Insurances pay the same amount regardless if a doc spends 5 min with someone or 30 min.  Furthermore, in most areas of the country, the number of insurance plans is daunting.  Some are copay model, meaning patient would want everything done.  Some are HMO model, meaning patient is fighting to get things done.  And some are co-insurance model, which we are discussing.  No way is a physician going to tailor a treatment plan based on what insurance model you have.  Not only is it not worth the time nor aggravation, that's not the fundamental purpose of a physician.
 

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