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How long is too long to lose professional respect (inside / outside of work) when being on the same company/org, same job title with similar duties and very limited pay raises?

Private Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

Public Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

How are IT long timers seen in the market? and how to overcome the stigma?

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80% includes both management and other employees, same for those 20%. I am not saying all management belongs to those 8... (more)

TheDealMaker (Aug. 09, 2017 @ 7:33p) |

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with that.

debentureboy (Aug. 10, 2017 @ 6:22a) |

Not true.  Around here, 10% of the people do 50% of the work, and the other 50% of the work never gets done.

DTASFAB (Aug. 10, 2017 @ 3:15p) |

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Not until you take the cleaning lady on your desk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB62oaOeqR0



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My understanding is you're only as good as your last project/ assignment. You cannot rest on your laurels for too long.

IT long timers have nothing to fear as long as they add value. Salary increases will continue to be low for the near/medium term. Assuming that you're in plain vanilla IT roles in banks, manufacturing organizations wherein work primarily revolves around system implementation and maintenance, there is no serious driver to increase salaries. Processes continue to be commoditized and automated. Outsourcing will not stop although it has definitely decelerated. Therefore, substantial salary increases will be hard to come by. Also, we need to understand that IT salaries are typically higher compared to other departments for similar roles.

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Opposite in some other sectors like health care. Seniority/ experience is worth a lot.

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Depends, did you sleep with the Boss's wife?

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WalletFatKing said:   How long is too long to lose professional respect (inside / outside of work) when being on the same company/org, same job title with similar duties and very limited pay raises?

 

  in automotive, most engineers max out after 3-4 promotions. You'd have to go into middle management or have some unique tech abilities to keep moving up.  

Honestly, that's probably the same story everywhere, not everyone can keep getting promoted thru the management ranks

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rufflesinc said:   
WalletFatKing said:   How long is too long to lose professional respect (inside / outside of work) when being on the same company/org, same job title with similar duties and very limited pay raises?

 

  in automotive, most engineers max out after 3-4 promotions. You'd have to go into middle management or have some unique tech abilities to keep moving up.  

Honestly, that's probably the same story everywhere, not everyone can keep getting promoted thru the management ranks

  Or even want to go to management (with your engineering example).  Of course there's always "project management' responsibilities that can grow without going in to "management"

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needhelpplease said:   Opposite in some other sectors like health care. Seniority/ experience is worth a lot.
Yes. Especially in finance and healthcare.
I am kicking myself every day not choosing those careers.

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Last Day is when you hit 30 years old. You can tell when your life clock changes color and starts to blink.

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Last I heard, employers paid in money rather than respect. Maybe you should shop your resume around?

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What's the story? Let's have it.

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The job market changes quickly for IT and many other fast growing careers. This is on top of the increases in salary as you get more experience and specialized skills. It is common for companies to hire people in entry level roles and give small cost of living raises even if you are doing more specialized work, and have more experience. At rackspace a network security administrator I could get hired on at $45k, and after three years get a raise to $55k. Hopefully you would be looking at a promotion to network security admin II, with a raise to $65-$70k. But if you changed jobs to another company you could get a job as a network engineer with a salary closer to $90k. IT is a broad field and there will be differences depending on the role and industry you are in. Working as a DBA for a government organization, vs a consultant for an MSP, or a software engineer for a large tech co. You need to make sure you have marketable skills to keep getting raises.

IT is more of a meritocracy than most other careers. Hiring managers work primarily off of skill and your most recent position is the most important way to demonstrate that. Your past experience or credentials will help to get interviews, but they won't get you the job like in other careers.

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WalletFatKing said:   How long is too long to lose professional respect (inside / outside of work) when being on the same company/org, same job title with similar duties and very limited pay raises?

Private Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

Public Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

How are IT long timers seen in the market? and how to overcome the stigma?

  
1-2 years after guys who used to be junior in rank are one rank ahead of you.

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ZenNUTS said:   What's the story? Let's have it.
No big story, I daily see people that have been in the same jobs for 10+yrs treated like dirt, though they bring in skills, knowledge etc.. etc.

Always the new appointees of the manager gets the best treatment, unless you are liked by the management.

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WalletFatKing said:   ZenNUTS said:   What's the story? Let's have it.
No big story, I daily see people that have been in the same jobs for 10+yrs treated like dirt, though they bring in skills, knowledge etc.. etc.


Presumably they are well compensate for that treatment?

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beachteen said:   
IT is more of a meritocracy than most other careers. Hiring managers work primarily off of skill and your most recent position is the most important way to demonstrate that. Your past experience or credentials will help to get interviews, but they won't get you the job like in other careers.


Wow! In my org merit, skill and present job is recognized as the least important things. 80% of hires/promotions are based on who is the favorite. We have some 0 code expereince IT architects, retail manager becoming IT management (non retail business), deaktop techs becoming DBA's overnight with no training and certs. Once in the position, they get work done through contractors (of course the company pays for it), but maintain their high positions

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Sounds like a great place, how do I sign up?

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WalletFatKing said:   
beachteen said:   
IT is more of a meritocracy than most other careers. Hiring managers work primarily off of skill and your most recent position is the most important way to demonstrate that. Your past experience or credentials will help to get interviews, but they won't get you the job like in other careers.


Wow! In my org merit, skill and present job is recognized as the least important things. 80% of hires/promotions are based on who is the favorite. We have some 0 code expereince IT architects, retail manager becoming IT management (non retail business), deaktop techs becoming DBA's overnight with no training and certs. Once in the position, they get work done through contractors (of course the company pays for it), but maintain their high positions

  Some of those promotions are Nepotism.  Some are no raise in pay (Though they tell you it is), some are just dumb luck.
 

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All of them has a pay raise of at least 10%, some had 25%, one had 50% (the retail store manager), all the while the ones getting the job done are treated like dirt.

anyways, how common are these in workplaces across America? Do the tech recruiters pass on people who dont show quick and successive career progression? Wht abt those folks who stay stick to their jobs for 10+yrs?

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WalletFatKing said:   
beachteen said:   
IT is more of a meritocracy than most other careers. Hiring managers work primarily off of skill and your most recent position is the most important way to demonstrate that. Your past experience or credentials will help to get interviews, but they won't get you the job like in other careers.


Wow! In my org merit, skill and present job is recognized as the least important things. 80% of hires/promotions are based on who is the favorite. We have some 0 code expereince IT architects, retail manager becoming IT management (non retail business), deaktop techs becoming DBA's overnight with no training and certs. Once in the position, they get work done through contractors (of course the company pays for it), but maintain their high positions

  Management doesn't always require strong technical abilities. Some knowledge is generally necessary, but more important, in my opinion, are the person's management skills (which would apply to any field) and the person's ability/willingness to learn new things on the job.

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WalletFatKing said:   All of them has a pay raise of at least 10%, some had 25%, one had 50% (the retail store manager), all the while the ones getting the job done are treated like dirt.

anyways, how common are these in workplaces across America? Do the tech recruiters pass on people who dont show quick and successive career progression? Wht abt those folks who stay stick to their jobs for 10+yrs?

  If you're being treated like dirt, leave.  Management will either watch their top talent walk out the door or adjust wages upward to compensate.

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WalletFatKing said:   
anyways, how common are these in workplaces across America? Do the tech recruiters pass on people who dont show quick and successive career progression? Wht abt those folks who stay stick to their jobs for 10+yrs?

  You can't do that forever in a 40 year career.  corporate america isn't lake wobagon

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it's never too long in certain places . I know people who did same job for 50 years and retired when the paycheck was not adding any value to life .

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I thought it went without saying, but you definitely have to ask for it. Maybe even leave and come back if you like the culture there long term. I wish someone told me that in my 20s, although I didn't care much about money back then.

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Spending this long in a job, will people bebable to get a different comparable job? I am finding that most jobs pay 20% less in the industry.

Nobody is leaving our org because of benefits, if they cut that, there will be a mass exodus.

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You seem to work in a dysfunctional workplace.

Yes people routinely get other jobs at other places after working at one place for 10+ years. Yes their pay may go up or down when changing jobs depending on a large variety of variables and details.

No IT professionals aren't automatically put out to pasture or treated like garbage after working 10 years.

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WalletFatKing said:   How long is too long to lose professional respect (inside / outside of work) when being on the same company/org, same job title with similar duties and very limited pay raises?

Private Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

Public Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

How are IT long timers seen in the market? and how to overcome the stigma?


IT is not the same as other tech job. 
IT starts out with no respect, so there's nothing to lose.
 

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treasurebeacon said:   
WalletFatKing said:   How long is too long to lose professional respect (inside / outside of work) when being on the same company/org, same job title with similar duties and very limited pay raises?

Private Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

Public Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

How are IT long timers seen in the market? and how to overcome the stigma?


IT is not the same as other tech job. 
IT starts out with no respect, so there's nothing to lose.

  I thought "IT" was just a synonym for "overhead expense"?

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1 week.

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In terms of software engineering...

In the beginning of your career, I think it's best to build a good amount of breadth. You get exposure to a ton of different technology, user scenarios, etc. I was able to get this by working on different things within a single product - the front-end UI, service infrastructure, client code, etc. You get to know a lot of different stuff and understand what you like, and what you don't like. You tend to work longer hours getting up to speed on stuff and you build experience this way.

Later in your career, you want to be indispensable by specializing in something high value for a particular company. As an example, there's one guy I work with that literally knows everything there is to know about our product. He's a really good developer and works hard, but the greatest value he brings to the table is his knowledge of how the product is coded and how it works. He's been working on the same product that makes a crap ton of money for the company for over 25 years now.

Does he churn as much code out as some of the younger guys? No. But his code is usually bulletproof and it just works. He's able to debug issues quickly that take other people significantly more time. That makes him indispensable and he honestly has a job here for as long as he wants it.

My dad, in a completely unrelated field, had the same experience until he just recently decided to retire. He specialized in a single area of HR that was hard to find people to work in, and had deep institutional knowledge about the company that others lacked. Despite multiple layoffs per year, he survived because the company wanted to keep him.

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sullim4 said:    He's been working on the same product that makes a crap ton of money for the company for over 25 years now.

 

  I'd like to know what software this is that has been crap ton of money for a quarter century, since 1992

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rufflesinc said:   sullim4 said:    He's been working on the same product that makes a crap ton of money for the company for over 25 years now.

 

  I'd like to know what software this is that has been crap ton of money for a quarter century, since 1992


Cobol based banking software.

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ach1199 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
sullim4 said:    He's been working on the same product that makes a crap ton of money for the company for over 25 years now.

 

  I'd like to know what software this is that has been crap ton of money for a quarter century, since 1992


Cobol based banking software.

  You mean since 1952.  Haha

I was thinking Cisco IOS Programmer.

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rufflesinc said:   
sullim4 said:    He's been working on the same product that makes a crap ton of money for the company for over 25 years now.

 

  I'd like to know what software this is that has been crap ton of money for a quarter century, since 1992

  
Something like Oracle Database, the core technology is still the same since 1992..
I actually know a person like that, he will never stay a day in my org!

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music4u4 said:   My understanding is you're only as good as your last project/ assignment. You cannot rest on your laurels for too long.


 

A good tip to remember in any industry if you want to be admired for your accomplishments

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WalletFatKing said:   How long is too long to lose professional respect (inside / outside of work) when being on the same company/org, same job title with similar duties and very limited pay raises?

Private Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

Public Sector
- IT /Tech Job
- Non tech Job

How are IT long timers seen in the market? and how to overcome the stigma?

It could be 6 months to 20 years.  There are too many variables in this question. 
Jeff Bezos has been in the same position (CEO of Amazon) since 1994.  If anything, he has gained a lot of respect since that time.

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aleck said:   
 
Jeff Bezos has been in the same position (CEO of Amazon ) since 1994.  If anything, he has gained a lot of respect since that time.

  he didn't get promoted there though

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On FWF, 20 posts, you know the ones.

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There is this huge problem with this country, people have more respect for manager who tells other people to do the work than the people who do the actual work. So the higher you look, the less people know. There is this 20/80 rule, 20% of the people do most of the actual work, 80% of the people either pretend to know or tell others to do the actual work.

Skipping 7 Messages...
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forbin4040 said:   In Government though, that 20/80 rule might be true as the incompetents keep their jobs and the talented keep leaving.
Not true.  Around here, 10% of the people do 50% of the work, and the other 50% of the work never gets done.

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