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rated:
I'm "stupid." I still own this stuff.

What stops me from selling are the large capital gains taxes. That, along with possibly missing out on this continuing. I never would have thought that what many consider Monopoly Money would be my best investment. I ignored the "FatWallet Indicator" (when people start posting about it, it's time to get out).

I feel things could go higher, but they could go lower. I don't really know. Any guesses?

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rated:
My guess, it will either go higher or lower. =P

Now the big names in investing, like Fidelity, are starting to look into it. I'm going to to hodl.

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One theory when you have done well is to pull out your original investment and let the profits go where they may. Worst case, you will never have a true net loss even if it bombs from here. I seem to recall some years ago bitcoin turning to dross.

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Is it possible to massage your taxable income into the 15% bracket and pay 0% on long term gains?
Is that 4000 bitcoins or bitcoins worth $4000?

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taxmantoo said:   Is it possible to massage your taxable income into the 15% bracket and pay 0% on long term gains?
Is that 4000 bitcoins or bitcoins worth $4000?

  one bitcoin is now $4000, he has, what? six bitcoins? I may have lost track. I wonder how one could be forced to pay taxes on an untraceable transaction.


Oh, and just for the record:

SELL, YOU FOOL, SELL!

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It's really no different than buying penny stocks. High risk, high return (or high downturn). I've got some bitcoin and ethereum. It's done really well obviously but I could also afford to lose it all. Ive gotta a friend who went 6 figures into bitcoin a while ago and he retired, counting his cash. That won't be me- I'm gonna let it ride. Either it shoots up even more, or I ride it all the way down. Vegas baby!

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soundtechie said:   
taxmantoo said:   Is it possible to massage your taxable income into the 15% bracket and pay 0% on long term gains?
Is that 4000 bitcoins or bitcoins worth $4000?

  one bitcoin is now $4000, he has, what? six bitcoins? I may have lost track. I wonder how one could be forced to pay taxes on an untraceable transaction.


Oh, and just for the record:

SELL, YOU FOOL, SELL!

  Well if he goes through an exchange (Coinbase) for the sale it might potentially be reported to the IRS at some point in the foreseeable future. Then of course you've got to send your proceeds to the bank whom depending on transaction size may file one of those CTR's.

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ctrs are for currency transactions

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cyiwin said:   My guess, it will either go higher or lower. =P

Now the big names in investing, like Fidelity, are starting to look into it. I'm going to to hodl.
While your guess is correct, where did you get the idea that big names like Fidelity are investing? The big names are looking at blockchain technology, not so much at any particular cryptocurrency.

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Bitcoin transactions are not untraceable. Actually, they are public.

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scripta said:   
cyiwin said:   My guess, it will either go higher or lower. =P

Now the big names in investing, like Fidelity, are starting to look into it. I'm going to to hodl.

While your guess is correct, where did you get the idea that big names like Fidelity are investing? The big names are looking at blockchain technology, not so much at any particular cryptocurrency.

See CNBC video:
  https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html 

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Looking back, I found a post in which bw claims to have 7.5 bitcoin.

How many bitcoins ya got, burgerwars?

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I wish I had bought 7.5.

But I sold my stash of BTC today. Hoping to jump back in after the next crash and take a new position. 4K+ is amazing.

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Don't forget, if you "still" own this stuff you now (as of July 23) also hold coins on https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-cash/.

So, you've also got (as of today) $300 x your number of Bitcoins in value in Bitcoin cash!

If you have not figured it out yet, absolutely do not come to FWF for advice on crypto currency. These guys still think you're buying tulips, it's a scam, etc. Check out r/bitcoin, r/btc, bitcointalk.org, etc.

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BTC now $4,200. Hope you didn't sell yet.

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Laszlo Hanyecz must be ruing the most expensive pizza in the history of mankind that he had!

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Use the standard counter-test: Assuming you have 10 BTC which are worth ~$40k, if you today had 0 BTC and $40k in cash would you buy in? There is the small issue of capital gains tax, but I'm guessing that would be an no for you. At the very least I would recommend selling 1/3 to 1/2 right now.

SpeedingLunatic said:   Bitcoin transactions are not untraceable. Actually, they are public.
The transactions are public, who owns the addresses that are used in the transactions is anonymous. At least if you aren't being stupid about it!

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Czechmeout said:   Use the standard counter-test: Assuming you have 10 BTC which are worth ~$40k, if you today had 0 BTC and $40k in cash would you buy in? There is the small issue of capital gains tax, but I'm guessing that would be an no for you. At the very least I would recommend selling 1/3 to 1/2 right now.

SpeedingLunatic said:   Bitcoin transactions are not untraceable. Actually, they are public.
The transactions are public, who owns the addresses that are used in the transactions is anonymous. At least if you aren't being stupid about it!

  
It's not about being stupid.  The easiest and most common way that people own these is on an exchange (coinbase, bittrex, polinex, etc).  It's like holding dollars in a bank account and saying cash transactions are anonymous...

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soundtechie said:   Looking back, I found a post in which bw claims to have 7.5 bitcoin.

How many bitcoins ya got, burgerwars?


It's a couple more than that, plus I bought 25 ethereum when it was about $10. I wish I had more.

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isn't there a limit when mining will become profitable at current power/hardware rates?

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JW10 said:   
scripta said:   
cyiwin said:   My guess, it will either go higher or lower. =P

Now the big names in investing, like Fidelity, are starting to look into it. I'm going to to hodl.

While your guess is correct, where did you get the idea that big names like Fidelity are investing? The big names are looking at blockchain technology, not so much at any particular cryptocurrency.

See CNBC video:
  https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html


BTW the last 20 seconds of that video is what most people don't yet realize and is the most important part.

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Coinbase the largest seller of bitcoins does not issue 1099s. They are in negotiations with the IRS and present stance is to comply but only on transactions of $10000 or more.

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nvm.

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JW10 said:   scripta said:   cyiwin said:   My guess, it will either go higher or lower. =P

Now the big names in investing, like Fidelity, are starting to look into it. I'm going to to hodl.
While your guess is correct, where did you get the idea that big names like Fidelity are investing? The big names are looking at blockchain technology, not so much at any particular cryptocurrency.
See CNBC video:
  https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html
The video doesn't show that Fidelity is investing in bitcoin. Adding an indicator isn't the same as investing.

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Pay your taxes!!! Bitcoin.tax

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If you want to still catch the train, IOTA is next next big thing. Built from the ground up and entirely different from a blockchain. I could see it overtaking the number 3 spot on market cap in the next year.

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scripta said:   
JW10 said:   
scripta said:   
cyiwin said:   My guess, it will either go higher or lower. =P

Now the big names in investing, like Fidelity, are starting to look into it. I'm going to to hodl.

While your guess is correct, where did you get the idea that big names like Fidelity are investing? The big names are looking at blockchain technology, not so much at any particular cryptocurrency.

See CNBC video:
  https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html

The video doesn't show that Fidelity is investing in bitcoin. Adding an indicator isn't the same as investing.

  Agree.  It just looks they allow their Full View account aggregator to see your Coinbase balance.  Maybe not the best thing for a customer to do as that involves entering your login credentials in Fidelity's website.  I wouldn't expect Coinbase to be as forgiving as a bank if something goes wrong and bitcoins leave your account. 

As far as 1099's and Coinbase's stance with the IRS.  Structuring several under $10,000 transactions to avoid any settled transaction limit reporting is a no-no, and still could be reported. 

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scripta said:   
JW10 said:   
scripta said:   
cyiwin said:   My guess, it will either go higher or lower. =P

Now the big names in investing, like Fidelity, are starting to look into it. I'm going to to hodl.

While your guess is correct, where did you get the idea that big names like Fidelity are investing? The big names are looking at blockchain technology, not so much at any particular cryptocurrency.

See CNBC video:
  https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html

The video doesn't show that Fidelity is investing in bitcoin. Adding an indicator isn't the same as investing.

  
I didn't say Fidelity was investing in Bitcoin. Bigger institutions like Fidelity are starting to take BTC more seriously.

As far as taxes go, I am paying Bitcoin taxes and it is not a simple task. That's why I no longer buy stuff with BTC, If I want to spend I sell a chunk of BTC and spend USD.
 

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cyiwin said:   JW10 said:   See CNBC video:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html
BTW the last 20 seconds of that video is what most people don't yet realize and is the most important part.
About the fact that the currency acts as an incentive to validate transactions, and that such incentive is absolutely required for blockchain to exist in the first place?

Hashing is trivial and cheap, but Bitcoin makes it artificially difficult to reduce the total number of crypto-coins created out of thin air. For any real-world use of blockchain, the artificial difficulty is not needed and the incentive could be in a real currency. Couldn't it?

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bopc1996 said:   Coinbase the largest seller of bitcoins does not issue 1099s. They are in negotiations with the IRS and present stance is to comply but only on transactions of $10000 or more.
  
they're on Bloomberg TV now. VP seemed legit. 

They offer the ability to fund thru CC. Might buy a little etherium or litecoin  to meet spending  if no fees?

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scripta said:   
cyiwin said:   
JW10 said:   See CNBC video:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html

BTW the last 20 seconds of that video is what most people don't yet realize and is the most important part.

About the fact that the currency acts as an incentive to validate transactions, and that such incentive is absolutely required for blockchain to exist in the first place?

Hashing is trivial and cheap, but Bitcoin makes it artificially difficult to reduce the total number of crypto-coins created out of thin air. For any real-world use of blockchain, the artificial difficulty is not needed and the incentive could be in a real currency. Couldn't it?

  
About the fact that miners who secure the network need to be compensated in some form. It doesn't have to be Bitcoin, it could be another crypto-currency but the Bitcoin network is the biggest and most secure. Whenever a mainstream figure says "the Blockchain" it's safe to substitute "the Bitcoin blockchain".
Hashing difficulty has to be adjusted to keep the block time consistent. If the difficulty of the puzzle wasn't adjusted then the block times would approach 0 as hashing power increased. And people like me who run a full node would have to store a ton of transaction data.

The goal is to write an accurate database by consensus of multiple users who don't trust each other.

  • requires a voting system
  • which requires a proof of individual
  • which requires work to be performed per time
  • which requires payment since people aren't going to spend $$$ for nothing in return

So the puzzle solving work is an important part of the 1 computer 1 vote process. Without the difficulty you could vote as many times as you want and could change the ledger.

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burgerwars said:   I feel things could go higher, but they could go lower. 
That's so deep, bro.

rated:
cyiwin said:   scripta said:   cyiwin said:   JW10 said:   See CNBC video:
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/08/09/fidelitys-bet-on-bitcoin.html
BTW the last 20 seconds of that video is what most people don't yet realize and is the most important part.
About the fact that the currency acts as an incentive to validate transactions, and that such incentive is absolutely required for blockchain to exist in the first place?

Hashing is trivial and cheap, but Bitcoin makes it artificially difficult to reduce the total number of crypto-coins created out of thin air. For any real-world use of blockchain, the artificial difficulty is not needed and the incentive could be in a real currency. Couldn't it?
About the fact that miners who secure the network need to be compensated in some form. It doesn't have to be Bitcoin, it could be another crypto-currency but the Bitcoin network is the biggest and most secure. Whenever a mainstream figure says "the Blockchain" it's safe to substitute "the Bitcoin blockchain".
Hashing difficulty has to be adjusted to keep the block time consistent. If the difficulty of the puzzle wasn't adjusted then the block times would approach 0 as hashing power increased. And people like me who run a full node would have to store a ton of transaction data.

The goal is to write an accurate database by consensus of multiple users who don't trust each other.

  • requires a voting system
  • which requires a proof of individual
  • which requires work to be performed per time
  • which requires payment since people aren't going to spend $$$ for nothing in return

So the puzzle solving work is an important part of the 1 computer 1 vote process. Without the difficulty you could vote as many times as you want and could change the ledger.
Forget the difficulty aspect then, because clearly I don't understand the internals well enough, but why must the incentive payments use a cryptocurrency? Could you not just as easily set the payout to $25 (or $20K, or whatever it actually costs) in a currency like USD for a successful hash? If the financial institutions decided to use blockchain technology for something (not specifically the bitcoin blockchain), then they would likely have transaction charges and distribute those charges to whoever successfully verifies the transaction, or whatever the equivalent of mining would be in that scenario.

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 Forget the difficulty aspect then, because clearly I don't understand the internals well enough, but why must the incentive payments use a cryptocurrency? Could you not just as easily set the payout to $25 (or $20K, or whatever it actually costs) in a currency like USD for a successful hash? If the financial institutions decided to use blockchain technology for something (not specifically the bitcoin blockchain), then they would likely have transaction charges and distribute those charges to whoever successfully verifies the transaction, or whatever the equivalent of mining would be in that scenario.

Yes they could by tokenizing the dollar. The problem is, blockchain is a key component of running a decentralized trusted platform. Institutions are going to want to pay extra for that. They're going to keep everything internal and centralized since it's cheaper and easier to control.

This might open another can of worms but running a blockchain is expensive. Bitcoin Miners are getting (12.5 coins * $4000 + fees) every 10 minutes. The main benefit is taking out a central middle man and keeping currency flowing without political or geographical restrictions (among the tech benefits). That's not the goal of existing financial institution so blockchain won't be useful for them. It's hard to imagine the FED letting us secure their network and paying us to do it.

 

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$4,400. Get ready to kick yourself.

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needhelpplease said:   
bopc1996 said:   Coinbase the largest seller of bitcoins does not issue 1099s. They are in negotiations with the IRS and present stance is to comply but only on transactions of $10000 or more.
  
they're on Bloomberg TV now. VP seemed legit. 

They offer the ability to fund thru CC. Might buy a little etherium or litecoin  to meet spending  if no fees?

  I've had success using my INK Cash to buy Bitcoin and Litecoin on Coinbase. Most importantly for FW users is that it coded as a Merchant and earned UR points.

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cyiwin said:   
Yes they could by tokenizing the dollar.

 

  There is a crypto for that actually, Tether is pegged to USD.

https://tether.to/

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parkdanil said:   
needhelpplease said:   
bopc1996 said:   Coinbase the largest seller of bitcoins does not issue 1099s. They are in negotiations with the IRS and present stance is to comply but only on transactions of $10000 or more.
  
they're on Bloomberg TV now. VP seemed legit. 

They offer the ability to fund thru CC. Might buy a little etherium or litecoin  to meet spending  if no fees?

  I've had success using my INK Cash to buy Bitcoin and Litecoin on Coinbase. Most importantly for FW users is that it coded as a Merchant and earned UR points.

 fees?

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parmenides said:   These guys still think you're buying tulips, it's a scam, etc. Check out r/bitcoin, r/btc, bitcointalk.org, etc.
  So, what you're saying is "this time it's different," right?

Skipping 128 Messages...
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The only reason the US fed has not cracked down on this already is that we have Mr. Fraud himself in the WH. Otherwise it would all be shut down in a NY minute for money laundering and funding terrorism.

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