• filter:

Financing Kids College Education

  • Text Only
  • Search this Topic »
Voting History
rated:
Hi folks. I am hoping some experienced parents can help here. First off, I am from Europe living in the USA for the past 17 years. I didn't go to college in USA. Therefore, I am not knowledgeable about financial options to save money for kids' college education. Here is my situation.  Daughter is in 3rd grade. Due to my salary and my wife's salary, we don't think we will be eligible for any need based scholarship. Merit Aid is crap shoot. We can put aside around $2000 a month towards her college education. What is our best option? 529 or index funds or something else? 

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
For some it may be a good option but it comes with tons of strings attached.

You need 3 years of active duty to get the f... (more)

Shandril (Sep. 11, 2017 @ 10:14a) |

Rolling the money to either the youngest or to grandkids is the plan if we don't withdraw

micha8s (Sep. 19, 2017 @ 11:47p) |

I tell you what... here are my thoughts on this based on my experience as a student and a parent.

High schools and prior ... (more)

Dus10 (Sep. 21, 2017 @ 4:03p) |

Staff Summary
Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

rated:
I don't know the citizenship status for you, your wife, or your daughter.

In general, I would advise that if you are not currently putting money in a roth IRA, start putting money in a roth IRA. You will be able to withdraw the principle without paying taxes or penalties, and it won't count towards your or her FAFSA. Obviously, fund your retirement as well using other means.

rated:
Hi soundtachie. We are all US citizens. We just recently had a chance to put $2000 away towards daughter's college education. Due to my wife's job situation we were paycheck to paycheck but now we are more stable. Thanks for the Roth IRA comment. Will look into it.

rated:
Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

rated:
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. 
  nice trolling

rated:
Roth IRA is definitely a good option.
529 is better - you can consider American Funds, Van Guard, Fidelity, or WealthFront. All are great! Van Guard is probably the best.

rated:
Newyorker1905, you might try filling out a FAFSA form for practice. Some schools require much more financial info, but I think they all start with this and for many, that's all they request. You could play with various scenarios about projected savings and income. It generates a number which is roughly interpreted as your expected annual contribution, though individual schools will kind of use their own scale. In my case, they seemed to arrive at much lower numbers than this fafsa score.

But as soundtechie recommends, max out tax advantaged retirement savings first. Fafsa doesn't even ask about that. Other big assets it doesn't consider are home equity (residence only) and cars.

It looked to me like a 529 balance gets penalized. That's effectively considered school property right off the top, and then they look for 25% of your other available savings per year. Some 529 plans are better than others too - research your state's program and also reviews for other states - some allow contributions from elsewhere. But for us, we only made last-minute 529 contributions, which gave us a state income tax benefit on the amount paid. The money was only briefly in the 529, so gains were virtually nil. But you want to find out how your 529 plan works, where its funds can be used, what savings/investment options it has, what tax benefits it offers.

rated:
Newyorker1905 said:   Hi soundtachie. We are all US citizens. We just recently had a chance to put $2000 away towards daughter's college education. Due to my wife's job situation we were paycheck to paycheck but now we are more stable. Thanks for the Roth IRA comment. Will look into it.
What state are you in (does your state allow a deduction for 529)?

If you have not saved anything substantial for retirement, I would focus on that first. You can borrow for college; not for retirement.

The suggestion for Roth is a good idea, given that you can take the contribution out (if needed) with no tax consequence. Remember, you can put in up to 5.5k each for you and spouse per year. If you and/or spouse is age 50 or over, you can contribute up to $1,000 extra per person (6.5k per year each).

You can also take a distribution from a traditional or Roth IRA without the 10% tax penalty as long as you spend it on "qualified higher education expenses". You will owe regular tax on the distributed amount (unless it is principal contribution from Roth IRA). It is not as good as a 529 plan where gains are not taxed for qualified higher education expenses. However, if your current retirement savings are non-existent, you need to balance out your retirement savings vs. savings for child's education.
Newyorker1905 said:   What is our best option? 529 or index funds or something else? 
 

   Remember 529 is a type of account. How you invest inside of it is a separate decision (subject to the choice available within the plan).



 

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. 
  nice trolling

  Why troll? Although really grades don't necessarily even matter.  Just NMS from PSAT by itself will get a full ride scholarship from almost every school that's not harvard, at least if it's not changed recently.  I got dozens of unsolicited full room+board offers, they didn't have applications or grades.  NMS is unrealistic for most, but there's grades/effort in their high school classes as another alternate.
If someone's not capable of applying themselves in HS enough to get at least some merit based scholarships, how are they magically capable enough after graduating that they need to go to the most expensive schools possible?  There's usually state schools, community college, or trade schools as additional options.

rated:
Bend3r said:   
rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. 
  nice trolling

  Why troll? Although really grades don't necessarily even matter.  Just NMS from PSAT by itself will get a full ride scholarship from almost every school that's not harvard, at least if it's not changed recently.  I got dozens of unsolicited full room+board offers, they didn't have applications or grades.  NMS is unrealistic for most, but there's grades/effort in their high school classes as another alternate.
If someone's not capable of applying themselves in HS enough to get at least some merit based scholarships, how are they magically capable enough after graduating that they need to go to the most expensive schools possible?  There's usually state schools, community college, or trade schools as additional options.

  If you don't have excellent grades, you will not receive NMS even if you have the required PSAT score....you will be a semi-finalist and be one of those weeded out who do not become a finalist.  And there are lots of schools other than Harvard that won't give full rides to NMS winners, although there are also lots that will.

rated:
SlimTim said:   It looked to me like a 529 balance gets penalized. That's effectively considered school property right off the top, and then they look for 25% of your other available savings per year.
Not true.  529 accounts are treated like any other parental asset.  In the FAFSA calculation, 5.6% of parental assets (after exclusions) are included in the expected family contribution each year.  

rated:
dcwilbur said:   
SlimTim said:   It looked to me like a 529 balance gets penalized. That's effectively considered school property right off the top, and then they look for 25% of your other available savings per year.
Not true.  529 accounts are treated like any other parental asset.  In the FAFSA calculation, 5.6% of parental assets (after exclusions) are included in the expected family contribution each year.  

  ^countable parental asset.

Not all assets are countable under the federal rules (i.e. home equity in your primary residence, retirement assets, life insurance, some business working capital) -- though some private colleges add some of these assets back in when calculating aid.

rated:
Newyorker1905 said:   Hi folks. I am hoping some experienced parents can help here. First off, I am from Europe living in the USA for the past 17 years. I didn't go to college in USA. Therefore, I am not knowledgeable about financial options to save money for kids' college education. Here is my situation.  Daughter is in 3rd grade. Due to my salary and my wife's salary, we don't think we will be eligible for any need based scholarship. Merit Aid is crap shoot. We can put aside around $2000 a month towards her college education. What is our best option? 529 or index funds or something else? 


How did you pay for child care when she was a baby?

You probably just figured out a way. In-state school tuition is less than daycare, in many cases.

Not saying you shouldn't save for college....but make sure you are really heavily funding your own retirement before worrying with college savings.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. 
  nice trolling

You may think I jest, but I know someone who followed about 75% of what I wrote to an exact T.  Several auto manufacturers have made some pretty incredible job offers to this girl who graduated from Stanford with an engineering degree.  The girl's mother comes from a foreign country and qualifies as a minority for diversity purposes in hiring.

rated:
DTASFAB said:   
rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. 
  nice trolling

You may think I jest, but I know someone who followed about 75% of what I wrote to an exact T.  Several auto manufacturers have made some pretty incredible job offers to this girl who graduated from Stanford with an engineering degree.  The girl's mother comes from a foreign country and qualifies as a minority for diversity purposes in hiring.

  Now I know you're trolling.

rated:
Good grades are not enough. 18% of high-schoolers in our district have 4.0 GPA (or above). It's pretty hard to normalize those grades so colleges also look closely at what classes you were taking in terms of challenge level (4.0 basket-weaving vs. 4.0 AP/IB/Honor Calculus). But for the large part, they'll also rely on how you test on ACT and SAT. Get ready to retake those as needed until you get the scores you need to go where you want to.

Also scholarship money is pretty much inversely proportional to how selective a college you're looking at. A 32 ACT (25% percentile at Harvard) doesn't get you any merit scholarship. A 35 or 36 might. But many lesser colleges will give you a full scholarship for an ACT score of 32. So it depends on how much you want to spend vs. how prestigious a college you want to get in.

rated:
stanolshefski said:   
dcwilbur said:   
SlimTim said:   It looked to me like a 529 balance gets penalized. That's effectively considered school property right off the top, and then they look for 25% of your other available savings per year.
Not true.  529 accounts are treated like any other parental asset.  In the FAFSA calculation, 5.6% of parental assets (after exclusions) are included in the expected family contribution each year.  

  ^countable parental asset.

Not all assets are countable under the federal rules (i.e. home equity in your primary residence, retirement assets, life insurance, some business working capital) -- though some private colleges add some of these assets back in when calculating aid.

Many Private schools and Ivy league schools ask for CSS profile and many of them penalize on home equity.
Some do not consider home equity at all, some use a formula and some use most of home equity. There was a long forbes article on it.
 

rated:
I would maximize all investment avenues first.
Then on home | cars
Then on 529.
You want to minimize the income and assets from what colleges look at.
If you or your wife can convert from W2 job to 1099, you can then shave off some of the direct income (W2) to expenses; reducing your AGI as well as countable income for colleges.
Other option is to invest in 7702 insurance plans. though most folks with balk at it; it is a very effective college aid maximizing tool.

rated:
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

  

That bit about "any race other than white" is clearly uninformed.    It has to be an "under represented minority".      This is a pretty important detail that you're ommitting there which you ought to know if you actually know what you're talking about.    

Not to mention 99.9x% of people can't get into Stanford / Harvard.    eta:    The 25% of Stanford students got 800 on the math SAT.  

 

rated:
Shandril said:   Good grades are not enough. 18% of high-schoolers in our district have 4.0 GPA (or above). It's pretty hard to normalize those grades so colleges also look closely at what classes you were taking in terms of challenge level (4.0 basket-weaving vs. 4.0 AP/IB/Honor Calculus). But for the large part, they'll also rely on how you test on ACT and SAT. Get ready to retake those as needed until you get the scores you need to go where you want to.

Also scholarship money is pretty much inversely proportional to how selective a college you're looking at. A 32 ACT (25% percentile at Harvard) doesn't get you any merit scholarship. A 35 or 36 might. But many lesser colleges will give you a full scholarship for an ACT score of 32. So it depends on how much you want to spend vs. how prestigious a college you want to get in.

  Colleges generally normalize on:

1) Class rank (they generally look a the percentage)
2) Rigor of schedule vs maximum possible rigor (i.e. did the student take the most difficult schedule possible -- for example, did the student take AP/IB vs. high honors vs. honors vs. regular classes).

rated:
stanolshefski said:   
 
1) Class rank (they generally look a the percentage)
2) Rigor of schedule vs maximum possible rigor (i.e. did the student take the most difficult schedule possible -- for example, did the student take AP/IB vs. high honors vs. honors vs. regular classes).

  if you got shafted in the genetic lottery wrt college admissions, you can always move to an area with terrible high school and then pay out of pocket for tutors, community college courses etc

rated:
Newyorker1905 said:   Hi folks. I am hoping some experienced parents can help here. First off, I am from Europe living in the USA for the past 17 years. I didn't go to college in USA. Therefore, I am not knowledgeable about financial options to save money for kids' college education. Here is my situation.  Daughter is in 3rd grade. Due to my salary and my wife's salary, we don't think we will be eligible for any need based scholarship. Merit Aid is crap shoot. We can put aside around $2000 a month towards her college education. What is our best option? 529 or index funds or something else? 
Back to the OP - I agree with others who recommend that you fully fund your own retirement first.  If you've done that, put money in a 529 only if you can take advantage of state tax benefits.  If you can, contribute to the 529 up to the tax-advantaged limit, and invest it in one of the more aggressive investment options (after all, you have a 9+ year time horizon).  From there, you'll have to weigh the options between taxable accounts and Roth.  That gets into a "pay me now or pay me later" situation with taxes and could potentially impact financial aid eligibility, so you really have to run the different scenarios based on your own circumstances.  

rated:
Don't save for your kid's college tuition. I'm betting that the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democrat party will come to power at some point in the next 17 years and make college "free."

If that doesn't happen, my backup is telling my kid he needs to sign up for the armed forces.

That's my plan. YMMV.

rated:
dcwilbur said:   
SlimTim said:   It looked to me like a 529 balance gets penalized. That's effectively considered school property right off the top, and then they look for 25% of your other available savings per year.
Not true.  529 accounts are treated like any other parental asset.  In the FAFSA calculation, 5.6% of parental assets (after exclusions) are included in the expected family contribution each year.  


Thanks for the correction. 

rated:
SlimTim said:   
dcwilbur said:   
SlimTim said:   It looked to me like a 529 balance gets penalized. That's effectively considered school property right off the top, and then they look for 25% of your other available savings per year.
Not true.  529 accounts are treated like any other parental asset.  In the FAFSA calculation, 5.6% of parental assets (after exclusions) are included in the expected family contribution each year.  


Thanks for the correction. 

  
You may have been thinking of a 529 owned by a grandparent.   Those do have higher financial aid impact.  The funds from grandparent 529 is treated as income to students.   

rated:
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

You may think I jest, but I know someone who followed about 75% of what I wrote to an exact T.  Several auto manufacturers have made some pretty incredible job offers to this girl who graduated from Stanford with an engineering degree.  The girl's mother comes from a foreign country and qualifies as a minority for diversity purposes in hiring.

  
These are just a few of the reasons that the vast majority of people have nothing but unmitigated contempt for such places and their reverse discrimination policies and as well as employers thinly veiled so called "diversity" programs.  

rated:
We have 3 kids. For a long time, we've been putting about 1000/month into a 529. We started with a big stake because I hit the stock-buyout lottery. Now we have two kids in college, and it looks like kid #2, with his scholarship and attending a state university, will only spend about 3/4 of his 529. We need to start taking scholarship-distributions this year if we want to draw-down that 529 to zero.

My concern with the IRA strategy is you never know when Congress might mess with you.

rated:
LOOPHOLE said:   DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

You may think I jest, but I know someone who followed about 75% of what I wrote to an exact T.  Several auto manufacturers have made some pretty incredible job offers to this girl who graduated from Stanford with an engineering degree.  The girl's mother comes from a foreign country and qualifies as a minority for diversity purposes in hiring.

  
These are just a few of the reasons that the vast majority of people have nothing but unmitigated contempt for such places and their reverse discrimination policies and as well as employers thinly veiled so called "diversity" programs.  

Studies have shown that far more advantage is given to wealthy alumni and donors

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
LOOPHOLE said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

You may think I jest, but I know someone who followed about 75% of what I wrote to an exact T.  Several auto manufacturers have made some pretty incredible job offers to this girl who graduated from Stanford with an engineering degree.  The girl's mother comes from a foreign country and qualifies as a minority for diversity purposes in hiring.

  
These are just a few of the reasons that the vast majority of people have nothing but unmitigated contempt for such places and their reverse discrimination policies and as well as employers thinly veiled so called "diversity" programs.  

Studies have shown that far more advantage is given to wealthy alumni and donors

In terms of college admission, sure.  In terms of job market, not so much.

In the job market, it all comes down to what particular advantages any individual might have over other candidates.  A lot of people making hiring decisions who were in fraternities and sororities in college might give preferential treatment to a job candidate affiliated with the same organization.  Most candidates have certain advantages and certain disadvantages, and these can vary, depending on the particular employer.  Some of those advantages are mandated by law.  In turn, some of those disadvantages are also inevitably mandated by law.  You can't have a coin with heads on both sides.

rated:
DTASFAB said:   
 Most candidates have certain advantages and certain disadvantages, and these can vary, depending on the particular employer.  Some of those advantages are mandated by law.  In turn, some of those disadvantages are also inevitably mandated by law.  You can't have a coin with heads on both sides.

  I'm not aware of any generally applicable law that requires an employer to hire certain number of minorities

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   
 Most candidates have certain advantages and certain disadvantages, and these can vary, depending on the particular employer.  Some of those advantages are mandated by law.  In turn, some of those disadvantages are also inevitably mandated by law.  You can't have a coin with heads on both sides.

  I'm not aware of any generally applicable law that requires an employer to hire certain number of minorities

  
No, but there are laws that say you can't discriminate against minorities. And one of the most common ways for a company to prove its lack of discrimination is to hire minorities.

rated:
meade18 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   
 Most candidates have certain advantages and certain disadvantages, and these can vary, depending on the particular employer.  Some of those advantages are mandated by law.  In turn, some of those disadvantages are also inevitably mandated by law.  You can't have a coin with heads on both sides.

  I'm not aware of any generally applicable law that requires an employer to hire certain number of minorities

  
No, but there are laws that say you can't discriminate against minorities. And one of the most common ways for a company to prove its lack of discrimination is to hire minorities.

  Are you saying we shouldn't have these laws ? really?

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
meade18 said:   
rufflesinc said:   
DTASFAB said:   
 Most candidates have certain advantages and certain disadvantages, and these can vary, depending on the particular employer.  Some of those advantages are mandated by law.  In turn, some of those disadvantages are also inevitably mandated by law.  You can't have a coin with heads on both sides.

  I'm not aware of any generally applicable law that requires an employer to hire certain number of minorities

  
No, but there are laws that say you can't discriminate against minorities. And one of the most common ways for a company to prove its lack of discrimination is to hire minorities.

  Are you saying we shouldn't have these laws ? really?

I didn't see anybody say that.  Not even close.  I think the laws are written very well.  I just wish they were enforced equally and I also wish it weren't politically correct to constantly slam any particular demographic.  But that's not the world in which we live.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/...  

Reading between the lines, that article makes it clear that discrimination that's done to promote "general diversity," and lacks any other Bona Fide Occupational Qualification Requirement is typical standard operating procedure for many employers.  They are technically breaking the law, but the social and political climate is such that anyone who points this out is accused, either directly or subliminally, of being a racist.

rated:
jerosen said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

  

That bit about "any race other than white" is clearly uninformed.    It has to be an "under represented minority".      This is a pretty important detail that you're ommitting there which you ought to know if you actually know what you're talking about.    

Not to mention 99.9x% of people can't get into Stanford / Harvard.    eta:    The 25% of Stanford students got 800 on the math SAT.  

 

You might be able to force everyone to eat a small olive and a small piece of celery and a carrot and some onion in every bite of they take of a tossed salad, but you will never, ever, be able to force everyone to actually like the flavor of that eclectic mix.  Lambasting and shaming people who simply want to eat lettuce and cucumber isn't going to make them more amenable to eating a wider array of vegetables.  As long as lettuce and cucumber are still part of the salad, nobody really has a right to complain.  But as soon as kale and quinoa and squash and other exotic vegetables start displacing the lettuce and cucumber at a disproportional rate, there's a problem.  You can't just completely abandon lettuce and cucumber as ingredients in the salad because those are the ingredients that have been in use for the longest period of time.  The salad wouldn't be complete without them, and when people want to talk about making sure that lettuce and cucumber remain part of the salad, it doesn't necessarily mean they hate all the other vegetables.

rated:
micha8s said:   We have 3 kids.... Now we have two kids in college, and it looks like kid #2, with his scholarship and attending a state university, will only spend about 3/4 of his 529. We need to start taking scholarship-distributions this year if we want to draw-down that 529 to zero.

 

Taking scholarship distribution will not incur the 10% penalty, but you will still have to pay income tax on the earnings. Why not roll the excess over to kid #1 or kid #3.Or save it for graduate or professional school. Worse case, you could go back to school yourself (a la Rodney Dangerfield).

rated:
DTASFAB said:   
jerosen said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

  

That bit about "any race other than white" is clearly uninformed.    It has to be an "under represented minority".      This is a pretty important detail that you're ommitting there which you ought to know if you actually know what you're talking about.    

Not to mention 99.9x% of people can't get into Stanford / Harvard.    eta:    The 25% of Stanford students got 800 on the math SAT.  

 

You might be able to force everyone to eat a small olive and a small piece of celery and a carrot and some onion in every bite of they take of a tossed salad, but you will never, ever, be able to force everyone to actually like the flavor of that eclectic mix.  Lambasting and shaming people who simply want to eat lettuce and cucumber isn't going to make them more amenable to eating a wider array of vegetables.  As long as lettuce and cucumber are still part of the salad, nobody really has a right to complain.  But as soon as kale and quinoa and squash and other exotic vegetables start displacing the lettuce and cucumber at a disproportional rate, there's a problem.  You can't just completely abandon lettuce and cucumber as ingredients in the salad because those are the ingredients that have been in use for the longest period of time.  The salad wouldn't be complete without them, and when people want to talk about making sure that lettuce and cucumber remain part of the salad, it doesn't necessarily mean they hate all the other vegetables.



so vegans are racists?  


 

rated:
jerosen said:   
DTASFAB said:   
jerosen said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: Make sure daughter gets good grades and full academic scholarship to Stanford or Harvard. Have her major in engineering or some other traditionally male-dominated field. It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. This will make her a double (or maybe triple) minority, opening many doors for her once she enters the job market.

Plan B: Get divorced when daughter is 13 (or sooner). Have wife quit working as a result of the emotional stress of the divorce, but make sure wife obtains full custody. This will qualify daughter for financial aid if Plan A fails.

These two plans are not mutually exclusive and may work best if combined.

  

That bit about "any race other than white" is clearly uninformed.    It has to be an "under represented minority".      This is a pretty important detail that you're ommitting there which you ought to know if you actually know what you're talking about.    

Not to mention 99.9x% of people can't get into Stanford / Harvard.    eta:    The 25% of Stanford students got 800 on the math SAT.  

 

You might be able to force everyone to eat a small olive and a small piece of celery and a carrot and some onion in every bite of they take of a tossed salad, but you will never, ever, be able to force everyone to actually like the flavor of that eclectic mix.  Lambasting and shaming people who simply want to eat lettuce and cucumber isn't going to make them more amenable to eating a wider array of vegetables.  As long as lettuce and cucumber are still part of the salad, nobody really has a right to complain.  But as soon as kale and quinoa and squash and other exotic vegetables start displacing the lettuce and cucumber at a disproportional rate, there's a problem.  You can't just completely abandon lettuce and cucumber as ingredients in the salad because those are the ingredients that have been in use for the longest period of time.  The salad wouldn't be complete without them, and when people want to talk about making sure that lettuce and cucumber remain part of the salad, it doesn't necessarily mean they hate all the other vegetables.



so vegans are racists?  


 

Yeah because we don't want any animal products in our salad.  Perhaps that makes us speciesists by proxy?  At least in the context of the quoted post?  Or something like that.  On the other hand, maybe vegans are as diverse as a typical cross section of widespread mainstream society.

rated:
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: ...It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. 
  It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white or Asian
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/affirmative-action-battle-...

rated:
NYKnicksFan said:   
DTASFAB said:   Plan A: ...It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white. 
  It would help if daughter is at least part of any race other than white or Asian
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/us/affirmative-action-battle-has-a-new-focus-asian-americans.html?_r=0

  I wonder if there's data showing that does or does not translate to employers though (vs just "selective" schools).  The next sentence of DTAS's quote was about the job market.

Skipping 39 Messages...
rated:
I tell you what... here are my thoughts on this based on my experience as a student and a parent.

High schools and prior do an absolutely horrible job preparing parents and students for college. This is just from an academic standpoint, either. They basically make it out to be an impossible proposition... you're grades are never good enough, you can never do enough extra curricular activities, your demographics are too bad, your standardized test score are not good enough. Basically, if you don't have a 4.0 GPA with a heavy load of AP/dual credit courses, and a near perfect SAT, you shouldn't think about school.

In reality, it doesn't have to be very bad at all. There are plenty of affordable options out there. There are plenty of ways to save some and other ways to reduce costs.

We have been going through this ourselves... we have a daughter going into a dental program at a world renowned state university. Annual tuition is $9k/year, in-state. As long as she gets good (not great) grades, we can knock off 1/3 of the tuition... 3.5 GPA. If she can't do that... then she can come up with the 1/3 of the tuition by working. So, $6k/year really isn't horrible at all. We can pay as we go and be fine with it. No need to save up for the education... the savings go towards retirement for us and let them just keep growing. We could go less expensive here by having her go to a community college for a couple of years, but her program is competitive and that means they prefer students with more credits at their institution. She will have some credit going into school already.

Depending on the program of study, there are tons of options. Basically, unless it is a hard science or a program that requires doctoral studies, you have a world of options. Start looking at these limited programs and your options are likewise limited.

Different employers have options to pay for tuition but they come with restrictions; those restrictions may be acceptable to you.

Gone need to be the days where students basically treat university like some sort of fully funded sabbatical, though. They can get jobs, they can chip in, and they can assist in keeping their expenses low. It isn't your job or their right to have you fund a "life changing experience" by sending them away from you to some expensive school.

  • Quick Reply:  Have something quick to contribute? Just reply below and you're done! hide Quick Reply
     
    Click here for full-featured reply.


Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

While FatWallet makes every effort to post correct information, offers are subject to change without notice.
Some exclusions may apply based upon merchant policies.
© 1999-2017