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Circuit Breaker Trip Causing Damage

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rated:
Hi everyone,

I'm going to qualify this post by admitting that I know very little about electrical wiring.  I have a Breville Smart Oven plugged into one of my kitchen outlets.  This morning I turned it on to toast some bread and I heard a loud pop noise.  Needless to say, the appliance is not working anymore.  Three kitchen outlets were impacted in total, but no other appliances were killed.   However, this appliance is relatively expense (~$200).  I'm assuming that this is on me, but I just wanted to post and see if the apartment landlord has any liability for an incident like this.  Would this possibly be covered by my renters insurance?

Thanks,

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rated:
It would be absolutely ludacris for you to make a claim over a $200 oven... For one, you probably have a deductible, and on top of that your premiums would rise. It sounds like a defect in the item, if you are still in the warranty period, or the extended credit card protection warranty, file a claim with your credit card company or submit a warranty claim.

rated:
Circuit breaker tripped because there is probably a short in the oven. See if there is any warranty on it.

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The more likely scenario is that your malfunction caused the circuit breaker to trip. If you have a short circuit in your appliance, it would simultaneously fry and trip the breaker.

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The correct title of this thread is "Circuit Breaker Trip prevented my defective oven from setting fire to the apartment"

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You sure you don't have a tripped gfci outlet in your kitchen?

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why do they call it a smart oven, it looks like a regular toaster oven. Can you control it by wifi or something

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Sounds like a GFCI trip to me. And no your landlord isn't responsible as it's likely your own appliance that caused the trip.

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another terrible tenant....plugs an 1800 watt toaster into a 15 amp outlet and is surprised when it trips. That you could possibly think this is the landlords fault...unbelievable
what is wrong with humanity!!

rated:
Thanks everyone, very helpful. The Breville was a few years old, so I think that makes sense that it shorted and tripped the circuit. Can a 15A outlet really not handle a 1800W appliance? My understanding is that 20A outlets are pretty uncommon. I wasn't running anything else major on the circuit at the same time.

rated:
1800 W / 110V = 16.4 Amps.
So there is no way a 15Amp could handle it.
 

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rated:
forbin4040 said:   1800 W / 110V = 16.4 Amps.
So there is no way a 15Amp could handle it.

  1800W @ 120V = 15A

And last time I checked the power is 122V at my house so it should be OK but why would they sell a plug-in appliance with that much watts is another question. Probably only uses that much power at the highest setting which is rarely used. Looks nice in red though. https://www.brevilleusa.com/collections/smart-ovens/products/the-smart-oven?variant=33979483857
  

rated:
zkreflex said:   I wasn't running anything else major on the circuit at the same time.
Eh, I'd say the 1800W oven was pretty major by itself...

PS. Interestingly in Europe the "small" outlets are at 10A which translates to 2200-2400W
 

rated:
Enyin said:   another terrible tenant....plugs an 1800 watt toaster into a 15 amp outlet and is surprised when it trips. That you could possibly think this is the landlords fault...unbelievable
what is wrong with humanity!!
Why are you assuming it's a 15 amp outlet?  My house is 33 years old and the kitchen outlets are wired for 20 amp.  

rated:
atikovi said:   
forbin4040 said:   1800 W / 110V = 16.4 Amps.
So there is no way a 15Amp could handle it.

  1800W @ 120V = 15A

And last time I checked the power is 122V at my house so it should be OK but why would they sell a plug-in appliance with that much watts is another question. Probably only uses that much power at the highest setting which is rarely used. Looks nice in red though. https://www.brevilleusa.com/collections/smart-ovens/products/the-smart-oven?variant=33979483857 
  

  Either way a 15A breaker is designed for 15Amps Peak,  12 Amps Continuous.
OP plugged a 1800W item so it will draw 15 or 16amps for a period of time, It's a good thing the breaker popped, otherwise there would've been a fire.

rated:
zkreflex said:    My understanding is that 20A outlets are pretty uncommon. 
  new houses should have 20A kitchen outlets

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Are you sure your $200 oven doesn't have an internal breaker that needs reset?

rated:
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   
Enyin said:   another terrible tenant....plugs an 1800 watt toaster into a 15 amp outlet and is surprised when it trips. That you could possibly think this is the landlords fault...unbelievable
what is wrong with humanity!!

Why are you assuming it's a 15 amp outlet?  My house is 33 years old and the kitchen outlets are wired for 20 amp.  

  A true 20 amp outlet has a horizontal slot. http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/95/950eedd5-6...  Doesn't mean a shady electrician or homeowner doesn't put one in in place of 15 amper.

rated:
NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   Enyin said:   another terrible tenant....plugs an 1800 watt toaster into a 15 amp outlet and is surprised when it trips. That you could possibly think this is the landlords fault...unbelievable
what is wrong with humanity!!
Why are you assuming it's a 15 amp outlet?  My house is 33 years old and the kitchen outlets are wired for 20 amp.  


sure thats possible....we cant know all the details such as whether that circuit is 15 or 20 or is dedicated purely to the kitchen and if not what else might be on it or if the breaker is older and tripping a little lower on the curve etc. either way though....based on as much info as we are given its most likely that the circuit was either overloaded by the 1800 watt beast or the thing shorted out as other posters mentioned hence tripping the breaker. other explanations are unlikely and we dont have any info to suggest otherwise

its so frustrating when tenants run the coffeemaker and the microwave at the same time and then somehow think the building has faulty wiring when it trips the breaker ugh...its just frustrating to read stuff like this for me at least

rated:
If the breaker tripped because the oven was at its peak wattage and the breaker was only 15A, why would that break the oven. I've tripped breakers before, never had that fry the appliance

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the original post doesnt make it clear if the breaker has been flipped back on and oven tested again to see if it will resume working. i know...it sounds obvious but ive had tenants asking me to call the power company about an outage when it was really just that they tripped the breaker....

rated:
Finance forum??!

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OP, how many other appliances are plugged into the other outlets. Each appliance contributes to the total load. The circuit breaker may easily handle the 1800W oven by itself but add another appliance and the breaker does what it is designed to do.

rated:
forbin4040 said:   
atikovi said:   
forbin4040 said:   1800 W / 110V = 16.4 Amps.
So there is no way a 15Amp could handle it.

  1800W @ 120V = 15A

And last time I checked the power is 122V at my house so it should be OK but why would they sell a plug-in appliance with that much watts is another question. Probably only uses that much power at the highest setting which is rarely used. Looks nice in red though. https://www.brevilleusa.com/collections/smart-ovens/products/the-smart-oven?variant=33979483857 
  

  Either way a 15A breaker is designed for 15Amps Peak,  12 Amps Continuous.
OP plugged a 1800W item so it will draw 15 or 16amps for a period of time, It's a good thing the breaker popped, otherwise there would've been a fire.

  
A countertop toaster oven isn't considered a continuous load per the electric code.  If an appliance has a 15 amp plug it can be plugged into a 15 amp breaker.

OP tripped an internal breaker in his oven most likely.

rated:
Check to see if your bathroom sockets work. If not, could be a GFCI there that can be reset.

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Note that its the total on the circuit which will trigger the load. So if you have an 1800W toaster, 1500W kettle, 8 100Watt light bulbs, a laptop charging, etc. then you can be way way over the load.

rated:
superdrew said:   It would be absolutely ludacris for you to make a claim over a $200 oven... Wait, Ludacris is involved?!
  

rated:
imbatman said:   You sure you don't have a tripped gfci outlet in your kitchen?
  exactly what i was thinking, all the counter-top receptacles should be on GFI and all likely tied to the same one. 

rated:
My guess is that it is a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) that tripped and not the breaker.  The GFCI is usually the first outlet on a branch circuit and will have test and reset buttons on the face.  They will make a click/pop when they trip so I'm guessing if you heard it in the kitchen and your breaker panel is not nearby that is what you heard.  Check all of the outlets in the kitchen, bathrooms, basement and even garage and press the reset button.  The GFCI will not necessarily be physically close to the outlets it is protecting but likely will be in one of these "potentially wet" locations where code requires them. 

My second guess is that there is moisture in the heating element of the oven causing the current leak.  Most electrical heaters are resistance wire suspended in a Magnesium Oxide powder/ceramic protected within a metal tube.  MgO is a good heat conductor and electrical insulator, but sucks up atmospheric moisture like a sponge.  The moisture provides a path for electricity to leak from the heating wire to the outer sheath.  A GFCI will trip with only a few milliamps of current leakage you will never feel while the breaker will happily pump 20 amps through your body for hours if there is no GFCI.  My house was built before GFCI was code.  While using a floor lamp to paint the kitchen years ago I picked it up to move and brushed the refrigerator with my other hand.  120 volts shot across my chest and it felt like someone kicked me in the heart.  Turns out the lamp had a short to the metal casing and my body completed the circuit when I touched the grounded refrigerator.  The breaker never tripped because I didn't draw enough amps long enough.  A GFCI would have tripped before I felt it.  My kitchen now has GFCI.

Try plugging it into a non-GFCI protected circuit and set it around 250 degrees for an hour or so and see if that will bake out the moisture.  Industrial controls I have worked with actually have an algorithm to slowly ramp up voltage to the heater to bake out the moisture, your toaster does not.  If this does work it will probably end up tripping the GFCI again at some point - if moisture got in once it will get in again. 

rated:
You overloaded the circuit, the circuit breaker trip to prevent overheating of the wires thereby preventing a fire. Go thank your landlord for have the proper sized circuit breaker installed.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   why do they call it a smart oven, it looks like a regular toaster oven. Can you control it by wifi or something
  Some ovens are smarter than some FW users.

rated:
gremln007 said:   Finance forum??!
  most of us are smart engineers that got bad grades in school.
https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1584728

rated:
skh12 said:   
imbatman said:   You sure you don't have a tripped gfci outlet in your kitchen?
  exactly what i was thinking, all the counter-top receptacles should be on GFI and all likely tied to the same one. 

  OP did say that it affected 3 outlets, but that all other equipment was functioning fine.  I assumed that to mean he reset whatever was necessary to reset the circuit, and the oven is the only thing that remains an issue.  But maybe he hauled his kitchen appliances to another area of the house to test in a working outlet, and left the 3 dead ones dead.

rated:
Glitch99 said:   
skh12 said:   
imbatman said:   You sure you don't have a tripped gfci outlet in your kitchen?
  exactly what i was thinking, all the counter-top receptacles should be on GFI and all likely tied to the same one. 

  OP did say that it affected 3 outlets, but that all other equipment was functioning fine.  I assumed that to mean he reset whatever was necessary to reset the circuit, and the oven is the only thing that remains an issue.  But maybe he hauled his kitchen appliances to another area of the house to test in a working outlet, and left the 3 dead ones dead.
 

  When I read that, I figured an outlet up 3 in the circuit had the GFCI circuit trip, which still needs to be reset. OP says he knows very little about electrical wiring, so I didn't assume he reset whatever was necessary to reset.
When I was replacing the control panel on my dishwasher, I accidentally completed the circuit with a screwdriver. 3 outlets in my kitchen and the gfci on the deck next to my kitchen door were all dead.
Spent 15 minutes trying to find the problem til i found a 4th gfci outlet I never use hidden behind my knife holder that had tripped.

rated:
I lived in a townhouse style condo built in 1984/85 from 1985 to 2015. Then I moved into a highrise apartment built in 2004. It took me a full day to realize the GFCI circuit was tripped on my bathroom outlet directly next to the sink after my mother tried to use a hair dryer that was wet. I had never used a GFCI outlet before. I'd seen them, but I never knew how they worked. I'm still a little unclear. All I know is if there's no power coming from the outlet, I should try pushing the two buttons in various combinations until power comes back on.

rated:
wilesmt said:   
forbin4040 said:   
atikovi said:   
forbin4040 said:   1800 W / 110V = 16.4 Amps.
So there is no way a 15Amp could handle it.

  1800W @ 120V = 15A

And last time I checked the power is 122V at my house so it should be OK but why would they sell a plug-in appliance with that much watts is another question. Probably only uses that much power at the highest setting which is rarely used. Looks nice in red though. https://www.brevilleusa.com/collections/smart-ovens/products/the-smart-oven?variant=33979483857 
  

  Either way a 15A breaker is designed for 15Amps Peak,  12 Amps Continuous.
OP plugged a 1800W item so it will draw 15 or 16amps for a period of time, It's a good thing the breaker popped, otherwise there would've been a fire.

  
A countertop toaster oven isn't considered a continuous load per the electric code.  If an appliance has a 15 amp plug it can be plugged into a 15 amp breaker.

OP tripped an internal breaker in his oven most likely.

  Codes obviously change all the time, but I thought code was 20 amps for kitchen and dining room receptacles according to the NEC, and thus the 1800 watt toaster oven should be fine plugged in?

rated:
IMHO the OP doesn't deserve all the red.

Lots of people don't know how to troubleshoot electric issues. And that was the #1 sentence of the post. They later then said they figured the problem was "on me" so they aren't blaming other people.

rated:
Kitchen outlets should be 20 Amps, this is true as long as back in the 50s. I don't see where OP said it's an 15A circuit. There should be nothing wrong with running an 1800Watt appliance, unless there's other high-wattage appliance running in the same circuit.

I would just reset the CB and see what happens.

btw. Keep in mind the CB is design to protect the wiring, not your appliance.

Skipping 30 Messages...
rated:
NotSoHard said:   
henry33 said:   
  
Would be settled if people would just read the NEC. But nobody reads these days.

https://www.amazon.com/National-Electrical-Code-Protection-Association/dp/1455912778/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505429539&sr=8-1&keywords=nec


FWF is about saving money; instead of buying the book, you can read it online for free simply by creating an account.

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I've been looking how to get if for free.  Thanks a lot!

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