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rated:
vadeltachi said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
equire all our tenants to obtain liability insurance of at least $1M. That, alone, saves about 35% on the landlord policies.

  how do you get discount on LL policies based on the renters insurance of the tenants?

  It's not (necessarily) renters' insurance; it's renters' liability insurance we require, purchased through Erie, with the landlord listed as an additional insured. I don't care if the tenants insure their stuff, but they must insure their liability. Some insurers sell renters' insurance with liability (usually including $100k or less in liability) and others sell only liability or only renters' contents.  Too many toilet, gutter and tub overflows over the years to do it otherwise. 

  Do you know how much it costs them?   How do you know it's maintained?  They could easily cancel and you wouldn't know.

rated:
drew2money said:   
vadeltachi said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
equire all our tenants to obtain liability insurance of at least $1M. That, alone, saves about 35% on the landlord policies.

  how do you get discount on LL policies based on the renters insurance of the tenants?

  It's not (necessarily) renters' insurance; it's renters' liability insurance we require, purchased through Erie, with the landlord listed as an additional insured. I don't care if the tenants insure their stuff, but they must insure their liability. Some insurers sell renters' insurance with liability (usually including $100k or less in liability) and others sell only liability or only renters' contents.  Too many toilet, gutter and tub overflows over the years to do it otherwise. 

  Do you know how much it costs them?   How do you know it's maintained?  They could easily cancel and you wouldn't know.

  Thats what being an additional insured means. Same as when your bank is listed on your homeowners insurance. The insurance company contacts the addtl insured if change or cancel occurs

rated:
drew2money said:   
vadeltachi said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
equire all our tenants to obtain liability insurance of at least $1M. That, alone, saves about 35% on the landlord policies.

  how do you get discount on LL policies based on the renters insurance of the tenants?

  It's not (necessarily) renters' insurance; it's renters' liability insurance we require, purchased through Erie, with the landlord listed as an additional insured. I don't care if the tenants insure their stuff, but they must insure their liability. Some insurers sell renters' insurance with liability (usually including $100k or less in liability) and others sell only liability or only renters' contents.  Too many toilet, gutter and tub overflows over the years to do it otherwise. 

  Do you know how much it costs them?   How do you know it's maintained?  They could easily cancel and you wouldn't know.

It costs them about $100 for a full  renters' policy; about $75 for liability only. By listing the landlord as an additional insured, the landlord will receive notice if the policy is canceled, lapses or is not renewed. The lease usually has strong language setting forth not having/maintaining liability insurance for any reason as a material breach for which only equitable relief (eviction in this case) is warranted or liquidated damages usually twice the full security deposit or sometimes both. You have to evaluate the value of the liquidated damages against the risk and costs of getting a bigger judgment in court and, of course, collecting against that judgment if it's awarded.

I also thoroughly explain this to all tenants before signing the lease, require a binder before they get the keys, and remind them that their HDTV, car, pets, additional living costs if they have to move out, clothing and all other stuff is not protected by any insurance, and that if they are negligent in any way, and are sued, they will likely be bankrupted by the cost to defend a suit, the judgment or both.

rated:
vadeltachi said:   
drew2money said:   
vadeltachi said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
equire all our tenants to obtain liability insurance of at least $1M. That, alone, saves about 35% on the landlord policies.

  how do you get discount on LL policies based on the renters insurance of the tenants?

  It's not (necessarily) renters' insurance; it's renters' liability insurance we require, purchased through Erie, with the landlord listed as an additional insured. I don't care if the tenants insure their stuff, but they must insure their liability. Some insurers sell renters' insurance with liability (usually including $100k or less in liability) and others sell only liability or only renters' contents.  Too many toilet, gutter and tub overflows over the years to do it otherwise. 

  Do you know how much it costs them?   How do you know it's maintained?  They could easily cancel and you wouldn't know.

It costs them about $100 for a full  renters' policy; about $75 for liability only. By listing the landlord as an additional insured, the landlord will receive notice if the policy is canceled, lapses or is not renewed. The lease usually has strong language setting forth not having/maintaining liability insurance for any reason as a material breach for which only equitable relief (eviction in this case) is warranted or liquidated damages usually twice the full security deposit or sometimes both. You have to evaluate the value of the liquidated damages against the risk and costs of getting a bigger judgment in court and, of course, collecting against that judgment if it's awarded.

I also thoroughly explain this to all tenants before signing the lease, require a binder before they get the keys, and remind them that their HDTV, car, pets, additional living costs if they have to move out, clothing and all other stuff is not protected by any insurance, and that if they are negligent in any way, and are sued, they will likely be bankrupted by the cost to defend a suit, the judgment or both.

  What does the liability cover? Does it cover damages they do to the house?

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
drew2money said:   
vadeltachi said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
equire all our tenants to obtain liability insurance of at least $1M. That, alone, saves about 35% on the landlord policies.

  how do you get discount on LL policies based on the renters insurance of the tenants?

  It's not (necessarily) renters' insurance; it's renters' liability insurance we require, purchased through Erie, with the landlord listed as an additional insured. I don't care if the tenants insure their stuff, but they must insure their liability. Some insurers sell renters' insurance with liability (usually including $100k or less in liability) and others sell only liability or only renters' contents.  Too many toilet, gutter and tub overflows over the years to do it otherwise. 

  Do you know how much it costs them?   How do you know it's maintained?  They could easily cancel and you wouldn't know.

It costs them about $100 for a full  renters' policy; about $75 for liability only. By listing the landlord as an additional insured, the landlord will receive notice if the policy is canceled, lapses or is not renewed. The lease usually has strong language setting forth not having/maintaining liability insurance for any reason as a material breach for which only equitable relief (eviction in this case) is warranted or liquidated damages usually twice the full security deposit or sometimes both. You have to evaluate the value of the liquidated damages against the risk and costs of getting a bigger judgment in court and, of course, collecting against that judgment if it's awarded.

I also thoroughly explain this to all tenants before signing the lease, require a binder before they get the keys, and remind them that their HDTV, car, pets, additional living costs if they have to move out, clothing and all other stuff is not protected by any insurance, and that if they are negligent in any way, and are sued, they will likely be bankrupted by the cost to defend a suit, the judgment or both.

  What does the liability cover? Does it cover damages they do to the house?

If they were negligent, yes. If, as is the case in my leases, they are required keep the gutters free from obstructions at their expense they don't do so, and the gutters overflow and damage the house, the liability would cover that damage. I may have to sue them, their insurance company or both for the damages, but I am in a much better position to either settle out of court or collect a judgment.  Just remember that liability arises from neglect, not wear and tear, and be sure to review all of this with competent insurance and legal counsel.

Another example: keeping sidewalks and pavements clear of ice and snow. If the lease places that covenant on the tenants, they fail to do so, and someone slips and sues me, I can then have their insurance defend me and pay any settlement or damages. This can be challenged with states respecting contributory negligence (if the injured party chose to walk on the obviously icy sidewalk, then he contributed to the negligence), but the cost of defense is there regardless and that adds up rapidly at $400 or more an hour.

All of this is much easier to resolve if the same entity insures landlord and tenant, so always try to have the renters' liability placed with your insurer.

rated:
vadeltachi said:   rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
drew2money said:   
vadeltachi said:   
rufflesinc said:   
vadeltachi said:   
Another example: keeping sidewalks and pavements clear of ice and snow. If the lease places that covenant on the tenants, they fail to do so, and someone slips and sues me, I can then have their insurance defend me and pay any settlement or damages. This can be challenged with states respecting contributory negligence (if the injured party chose to walk on the obviously icy sidewalk, then he contributed to the negligence), but the cost of defense is there regardless and that adds up rapidly at $400 or more an hour.

All of this is much easier to resolve if the same entity insures landlord and tenant, so always try to have the renters' liability placed with your insurer.

hehe michigan does not allow slip and fall lawsuits due to snow or ice hehe

do you allow tenants to use a different insurer or only erie?

rated:
Generally no, especially in the low-end units.. Erie is usually the least expensive followed by USAA (although its rates vary widely) and then Geico.  I will not accept State Farm. 

rated:
vadeltachi said:   Generally no, especially in the low-end units.. Erie is usually the least expensive followed by USAA (although its rates vary widely) and then Geico.  I will not accept State Farm. 
  You seem to know a lot about renters insurance ... what kinds of claims have  you had to make>

rated:
i got a mail from HOA regarding a minor dent in garage door of a rental I own in IL. they asked me to fix it in 14 days.
I don't recall that dent being there when I put that property up for rental. is damage to property, while being rented, responsibility of tenant or landlord ?

rated:
MeraNamJoker said:   i got a mail from HOA regarding a minor dent in garage door of a rental I own in IL. they asked me to fix it in 14 days.
I don't recall that dent being there when I put that property up for rental. is damage to property, while being rented, responsibility of tenant or landlord ?

  It depends on who owns and maintains the garage door (unit owner or the HOA) and how the damage occurred. Also, your lease will/should address who is responsible for repairs to unit components. Generally, absent any other contractual language, the unit owner is responsible for care, upkeep, maintenance, repairs and replacements to unit components he owns.  Did the HOA send an image of the alleged damage? If not. I would request that from the HOA if for no other reason than to give yourself more time to make the repairs and to use as a negotiating tool with the tenant if s/he caused the dent.

Your move-in checklist should have noted whether the damage was there at the time the tenant took possession of the unit. Ideally, you would have taken a dated image of the noted damages.

rated:
vadeltachi said:    Generally, absent any other contractual language, the unit owner is responsible for care, upkeep, maintenance, repairs and replacements to unit components he owns.  

 

  Thanks for response. i understand owner is responsible for upkeep, but i am surprised that owner is responsible for any damage to property while property is in tenant's possession. does it mean that tenant can back the car in garage door and owner still has to pay unless this is excluded explicitly in lease ?  i thought (maybe wrongly) that only general wear and tear is owner's responsibility.

rated:
MeraNamJoker said:   
vadeltachi said:    Generally, absent any other contractual language, the unit owner is responsible for care, upkeep, maintenance, repairs and replacements to unit components he owns.  

 

  Thanks for response. i understand owner is responsible for upkeep, but i am surprised that owner is responsible for any damage to property while property is in tenant's possession. does it mean that tenant can back the car in garage door and owner still has to pay unless this is excluded explicitly in lease ?  i thought (maybe wrongly) that only general wear and tear is owner's responsibility.

  Have you called tenant to ask what is going on?    

rated:
MeraNamJoker said:   
vadeltachi said:    Generally, absent any other contractual language, the unit owner is responsible for care, upkeep, maintenance, repairs and replacements to unit components he owns.  

 

  Thanks for response. i understand owner is responsible for upkeep, but i am surprised that owner is responsible for any damage to property while property is in tenant's possession. does it mean that tenant can back the car in garage door and owner still has to pay unless this is excluded explicitly in lease ?  i thought (maybe wrongly) that only general wear and tear is owner's responsibility.

  no, if it is obvious tenant caused the damage then they are responsible.

If there is a clogged drain but after snaking, it works and you don't find anything unusual, you have to be a hardass to bill the tenant

if you snake and find a toy, sanity pad, diapers etc, then you can bill tenant

I have seen wind in a severe non-tornado storm damage a garage door ... !

rated:
Pool Epoxy Paint

I painted my Vegas player pool with epoxy 5 years ago. The paint held up fairly well until recently I noticed paint bubble formation on the side walls.

I am thinking about repainting a second layer of epoxy.

Has anyone had experience with paint a second layer of epoxy and advice?

Thanks

rated:
Just had a lady call me from a temporary housing company.  Says shes hired by the insurance companies to place a family that had a major fire within about 2 miles of our location.  Shes interested in our rental home for a 3 month lease and monthly after with 30 days notice at $400 above my rental rate.

We've stopped trying to find someone for the moment until we are clear on our move date, but as of a week or two ago we had people ringing me off the hook becasue of a large nuclear plant start up a few miles from there. Tons of folks coming in from out of state to work there on the build.

The rental rate sounds great, and I can still have them do my application and provide credit and background just as normal.  The renters are responsible for utilities, and the renters sign my lease, but the insurance pays the rent.

So, unsure if theres any tricks to writing that type of lease correctly so I don't get hung.
Plus, I'd expect the deal to prob last 4-5 months if its a major fire repair situation.  
Under normal circumstances, renting in Nov dec timeframe would be  not so hot, but with this nuclear build, it might be a non issue with someone anxious to pick it up.

Any thoughts or experience with this?  Company is called Klein and Co.
 

rated:
I don't do third party and I don't do short term or month or month. Too much hassle, too little upside.

rated:
Rental property sale tax treatment question:
I had a primary home (purchased in 2008) that I converted to rental in 2012 and sold in 2015.

I qualify not to pay capital gains, but I am responsible for depreciation recapture tax.
During the years it was rental my depreciation had two components
1. structure value/27.5
2. few appliances and items that I put in the house at the time of conversion that I have been depreciating using MACRS 200db 5 year table.

Does the depreciation re-capture section only include item (1) above or even the appliances (2) that I have depreciated 4 years out of its 5 year life.

Also, I let the appliances stay in the house, threw them in along with the house sale.... Is it possible to capture the remaining years depreciation on them in the final year calculations? or is it a write off?

rated:
Also, do I still have to depreciate the property in the year of sale? (I sold it in May... so do I still have to take depreciation for 4.5 months, add this amount to the depreciation I took over the life of the rental and then pay tax for it in the depreciation recapture section?)

rated:
RhizzleBop said:   Just had a lady call me from a temporary housing company.  Says shes hired by the insurance companies to place a family that had a major fire within about 2 miles of our location.  Shes interested in our rental home for a 3 month lease and monthly after with 30 days notice at $400 above my rental rate.

We've stopped trying to find someone for the moment until we are clear on our move date, but as of a week or two ago we had people ringing me off the hook becasue of a large nuclear plant start up a few miles from there. Tons of folks coming in from out of state to work there on the build.

The rental rate sounds great, and I can still have them do my application and provide credit and background just as normal.  The renters are responsible for utilities, and the renters sign my lease, but the insurance pays the rent.

So, unsure if theres any tricks to writing that type of lease correctly so I don't get hung.
Plus, I'd expect the deal to prob last 4-5 months if its a major fire repair situation.  
Under normal circumstances, renting in Nov dec timeframe would be  not so hot, but with this nuclear build, it might be a non issue with someone anxious to pick it up.

Any thoughts or experience with this?  Company is called Klein and Co.

  
I had a company call me.  I google and the reviews were horrible.

rated:
RhizzleBop said:   Just had a lady call me from a temporary housing company.  Says shes hired by the insurance companies to place a family that had a major fire within about 2 miles of our location.  Shes interested in our rental home for a 3 month lease and monthly after with 30 days notice at $400 above my rental rate.

We've stopped trying to find someone for the moment until we are clear on our move date, but as of a week or two ago we had people ringing me off the hook becasue of a large nuclear plant start up a few miles from there. Tons of folks coming in from out of state to work there on the build.

The rental rate sounds great, and I can still have them do my application and provide credit and background just as normal.  The renters are responsible for utilities, and the renters sign my lease, but the insurance pays the rent.

So, unsure if theres any tricks to writing that type of lease correctly so I don't get hung.
Plus, I'd expect the deal to prob last 4-5 months if its a major fire repair situation.  
Under normal circumstances, renting in Nov dec timeframe would be  not so hot, but with this nuclear build, it might be a non issue with someone anxious to pick it up.

Any thoughts or experience with this?  Company is called Klein and Co.

I would not do it unless the tenants or agent or insurance company agree to pay a full year of rent with some sort of stipulation that you will rebate some or all of it if they leave before the year is up and a new tenant acceptable to you takes over.

OTOH, you might get a better quality tenant for that short time, but I would never, no matter where my rental was located, consciously arrange to have it vacant during the time from when school starts to spring. In other words, vacancies are best in the early summer and disastrous during the winter holiday season.

You will have move in and out wear and tear and some cleaning no matter how long someone stays, and, of course, the added hassle of marketing and showing the unit when the short-timers move out.

Do a google search for corporate or short-term housing and you will see what the going rates are -- and they should be skyhigh if there is a big construction project planned or underway. (See info on the ND oil patch for rental unit prices. Amazing what people will pay to live there all based on supply and demand).

rated:
Quick question - I received an application for a place I'm renting out. The applicant disclosed that he had a misdemeanor on his record. Is that enough for me to legally deny him? Or do I need to go through the entire background check, credit check, eviction check, etc?

rated:
what was the misdemeanor?

rated:
rufflesinc said:   what was the misdemeanor?
  
I haven't ran a formal background check but quickly looking at the county website shows - expired tag (2015), unpaid toll (2008), unpaid toll (2001) and open container (2000).

rated:
exclusivelysid said:   
rufflesinc said:   what was the misdemeanor?
  
I haven't ran a formal background check but quickly looking at the county website shows - expired tag (2015), unpaid toll (2008), unpaid toll (2001) and open container (2000).

  I'm guessing the last one is the misdemeanor? Is that just an arrest or a conviction? A conviction for open container could mean it was DUI but first offense and pled down. 

Personally, with the HUD guidelines, i'd just run the whole shebang, and deny then if you want to deny.

rated:
rufflesinc said:   
exclusivelysid said:   
rufflesinc said:   what was the misdemeanor?
  
I haven't ran a formal background check but quickly looking at the county website shows - expired tag (2015), unpaid toll (2008), unpaid toll (2001) and open container (2000).

  I'm guessing the last one is the misdemeanor? Is that just an arrest or a conviction? A conviction for open container could mean it was DUI but first offense and pled down. 

Personally, with the HUD guidelines, i'd just run the whole shebang, and deny then if you want to deny.

  
Thanks! The last thing I want is a lawsuit on my hands. So if I legally wanted to deny him, I could I deny him after I run his criminal check but not before running it?

rated:
rufflesinc said:   Personally, with the HUD guidelines, i'd just run the whole shebang, and deny then if you want to deny.
  
Yeah that.

The new HUD guideline pretty much makes it discrimination to blanket deny anyone just due to a criminal record without applying more specifics.    So denying someone just for a misdeamonor like this would not be allowed.

See the previous discussion of HUD rule: 
https://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1491087/
 

rated:
i would save the background check and just find another reason to deny. or just provide no reason, eg. "i've decided on another applicant"

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