I went from a $4K Lowes card to $1.5M biz & pers. credit in 32 months

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What credit unions have you joined that DO NOT require income verfication for LOC or credit cards????????

I am self employed and do not release my tax return for credit cards.

forgive my ignorance, but what is the purpose of having all this "credit"

supercreditman said:

I get the impression you guys are not self employed or you wouldn't take such a negative stance on borrowing for business purposes. You tell me how highways, skysrapers, airlines, and all sorts of other huge industries in this country could operate without credit.


I am self employed and if I needed money for my company it would be a conventional loan, I don't think highways, skyscrapers, airlines were funded with credit cards. The risk of cards is much greater, One mistake could cause all sorts of adverse actions including sky rocketing APR or closures. I understand why you are going this way but it is not the norm in business. Also why the problems with 16 year olds having sex? While I don't want my kids doing it I think most of us probably were at that age

I think SCM is a fighter. I dont understand why some people cant accept the fact he is not selling his business. He chose a difficult route, others will give up and sell at a loss. But this was a family business dear to him and he has persevered. I wish you the best SCM.

For once, I wanted to say thank you for showing us new tricks on new credit. I did a mini AOR with my EXP frozen and it paid out well. I am trying to get my inquires down a bit and do a larger AOR next time. You were right on the money about some cc companies e.g. American Express.

For once, I wanted to say thank you for showing us new tricks on new credit. I did a mini AOR with my EXP frozen and it paid out well. I am trying to get my inquires down a bit and do a larger AOR next time. You were right on the money about some cc companies e.g. American Express.

Thanks to everyone, especially SCM for keeping this thread alive with good info. I recently did a micro AOR with an LLC I formed in the fall of '06, as my business lawyer offered to submit some apps on my behalf. I was rather disappointed because it cost me 5 inquiries (they wanted to review my credit and get the company rated first)--2 EXP's, 2 TU's, and 1 EQ back in February. I was really upset when they spent another 5 inquiries (3 EXP's, 1 TU, and 1 EQ) applying to 4 banks, only to find out that the banks weren't seeing my "rating," which the firm was supposed to have set up BEFORE the apps went off. So I got 4 SBA offers totalling $110K, but the most I could accept was $35K, since multiple SBA loans would not have worked. I just about had a cow because I only had about 6 inquiries total before I retained this firm, and now I have 16! I declined all of the SBA offers and really let this lawyer have it. He did make some calls to the banks, and now I have about $50K in credit lines open. I'm still upset because I'd have at least twice that had the firm verified that my company's rating was showing up in Paydex, D&B, and Experian (Intelliscore?). I'm guessing that I got screwed because I negotiated a flat fee instead of a percentage of the lines opened.

Anyway, how long should I wait to do another AOR (personal or business)? These new accounts don't show up in my personal credit report but the inquiries do. I recently took advantage of a 1.9% deal for $34K, out of about $100K available, but I have cash in the bank if I need to go back to '0' balances. Are 5 EXP inquiries within 6 months time too many to start another one anytime soon? TU and EQ show only 2-3 recent inquiries each. I've instructed my lawyer not to submit any more applications until I have hard proof that the companies are in fact rated.

And for any remaining doubters out there, for the record...since 2004, I've parlayed $60K in unsecured credit cards and BT checks into more than $300,000 in cash profits buying, financing and selling distressed real estate. Once I graduate to the next level and master unsecured business credit, I should be up to about $400K by this time next year (personal and business credit), as I plan to do much better with my wife's LLC before year's end. Unsecured credit certainly beats conventional and gov't secured financing, as far as I'm concerned. BTW, I use Quicken reminders, autopay as well as paytrust.com (triple protection) to be sure that no payments are ever missed. All I do is spend a few hours a month balancing and verifying the accounts, and checking for automatic CLI's and new low-rate offers!

Rock on SCM!!!

Congratw Pareleagle! That's quite an accomplishment. You have to have money to make money. Unsecured is the BEST! I'll take risks with possible CC interest rate hikes any day over fixed high rate commercial credit with annual reviews and possible call-ins. I've had an occasional late pay on my numerous accounts with balances, and the rate was bumped immediately, but I can deal with it. I'm diligent in paying and the same banks that have upped rates on an account or 2 due to my late pays continually send me solicitations for low interest BT offers and even give me auto-CLI's. They still like me because I DO pay, when so many don't.



Delta Community and Alliant CU's didn't ask me for docs. All the others did.


ScootyPuffSr said: MarketVViz said: scott1961 said: While it seems he is trying very hard to stay afloat it does seem like the proverbial house of cards waiting to collapse. Funny how many here are so impressed with his accomplishment, when in truth they are in a much better situation with far less available credit. I do wish him the best of luck

I hear you Scott, I always thought this was a pretty bizarre thread. Not sure what anyone was supposed to learn - want a lot of credit? Apply for a lot of cards. Maybe have more success by challenging hard pulls but since you don't have a legit reason to challenge, this is questionable at best, and not really useful to most people anyway. I still think SCM will go bust this year and I wonder if we will get any updates on his situation even if it is irrelevant? Then again, with the subprime market meltdown and rapidly rising foreclosure rate, maybe rental properties will actually gain value (from new waves of renters).

I agree 100%. Glad I'm not alone. Other than apply whenever and wherever you can, I'm not sure what is so valuable or why this thread is filled with comments on how they'll never forget the OP for the rest of their lives, how this thread changed their life, and how noble the OP is.

Other than promoting the disputing of hard pulls which you explicitly authorized and intentionally requested, I'm not sure what is new here.

Otherwise it seems it is just a story of a semi-successful, semi-unsuccessful businessman except we aren't supposed to talk about the business that people champion to be a hero because he did it. Seems kind of contradictory if you ask about the business then you aren't supposed to be talking, but all the "rah, rah, you're the greatest" posts about his business are cool.

Huh? He's followed well-known strategies to a logical extreme/conclusion that no one else has ever (that we know of). This is an invaluable data point that we may otherwise never have come across. Now we know what will happen if we go balls out, say f our credit for a while, and try to get the max credit possible while carrying large balances. We'll accrue enormous credit lines and raise our scores. That's really a somewhat incredible thing. And knowing that outlier we can interpolate into many data points in between as well.

MarketVViz said: Not sure what anyone was supposed to learn.
I understand that viewpoint, e.g. I don't think the SCM approach is a smart way to start a NEW business. But, as I read the history, his choices were:
1. declare bankruptcy (which would probably end up hurting his customers and tenants too)
2. scramble to find a way to make it all work, and slowly rebuild a profitable business

Given a culture that seems a bit too eager to run away from responsibility, the second approach looks pretty good.

(Plus, it is valuable to learn how far the game can be pushed.)

supercreditman said: Hey guys, I'm still plugging away. Just thought I'd let you know that the ship hasn't sunk yet, to spite all of your negative criticism. The house of cards still stands! My overall debt has increased by about $50K but my vehicle inventory has increased to about $350K. When I need cash to make payments, I sell cars at the auction, generally for more than I paid for them. However, retail sales are improving and the profits are strong. For instance, last week I bought a 2001 Lincoln Continental sedan for $2200. I brought it in Friday, a couple came by and saw $5500 on the windshield Saturday, begged me to take $5300, and came in with $5300 cash on Monday. On Wednesday, a guy bought a car I had $830 in for $2500. That's $4500 profit in a couple of days. I sold 198 cars last year and they helped me cover a lot of the larger RE bills that I otherwiae wouldn't have been able to pay. Occupancy dropped in June and July but I'm gradually starting to fill the units that were vacated this year. In other words, don't write me off just yet. Cats have 9 lives. I'm starting to think I have 9000. Just when I wonder what the heck I'm going to do, I have another breaththrough that buys me a little more time. The combined cash flow of the 2 largest buainesses is over $40K a month.

The thread isn't here for you to criticize me. It's here to tell those who want to build credit and had credit problems how I managed to do it, even with my problems. It's to say that if I can do it, anybody can, because most people aren't in the kind of financial shape I was in.

FYI, My TU score is currently 771. My paydex has been 80 for 2 years, and my EX biz score is a strong 97 right now, with EX saying my companies are extremely low risk. Maybe because I'm having trouble and watching so carefully what I'm doing, I'm less risky than those who are not making sure their bills are paid because they're so busy making money, they forget to pay the bills on time. Who knows.

I don't spend a lot of time paying bills. Maybe 2 hours a week. I get up at 5:00 AM and go to the office to set them up for online payment and I'm done by just before 7:00 AM when I head out to the car auctions. I now go to car auctions 4 days a week. I have about 125 vehicles on my lot.

I get the impression you guys are not self employed or you wouldn't take such a negative stance on borrowing for business purposes. You tell me how highways, skysrapers, airlines, and all sorts of other huge industries in this country could operate without credit.


HERE HERE, I agree with you SCM. This thread isn't here for ANYONE to criticize. I started buying properties in 2003 now have 45 units. everything but 34 units are on my FICO, I only just started figuring out about business cards not reporting. Had I known about this sooner I would be in better shape.

I would rather borrow and pay my bills than be like half of my tenants that(think not paying there rent is a business loan)!!!

All of you who want conventional loans, let me tell you. If you haven't done one it isn't worth the A$$ probing.

SCM when I read your story I just think, NO WAY this guy is going threw the same shit as I am. Tenants leave the apartments like crap, don't pay thier rent, You name it. IRS sucks, BANKS suck. I think BUSINESS is a Mirage, If I spend my profit upgrading and increasing value, Then you can't REFI because the banks don't think the cash flow is there. DUUUUU

I paid 4000.00 for an apprasil, just to get a shit offer and 11 inquires. You bet I dispute PP inquires, BUMP, SPLIT, what ever it takes to protect my 3 million in REALESTATE that I paid 1.5 million for.

In 2003 I had a 300 capitalone card and a 70,000 per year job. Now I have 225,000 personal+business credit and now self employed. It always sucks, but my 15 year 1.2 million dollar mortgage only has 11 years and 11 months left When it's paid i'll be 52 years old and the income is 20,000 per month now, 12 years from now it will be 30,000 per month.

That retirement will beat MY OLD JOB anyday.

You guys who are negative should really think about this with an open mind, Reserve you judgement and try to learn something that you don't understand.

I borrowed the money to buy my property from credit cards or 0 down financing. Now my biggest property (17 DUPLEXS) will be subdivided(hopefully) by next year 34 units will sell for about 5 million, without adding additional units.

So as you can see borrowing a few 100,000 to tide a business over is not the road to distruction!!!! I pay down about 6,000 per month in mortgage debt, so what If I have to pay a few thousand a month in CC DEBT. Out of the right pocket into the left. The business is still increasing in value AS I'M SURE SCM is also.

BUUUUUYAAA SCM i'd love to talk to ya. My property is about 5 miles out of the way for most, So I had to come up with different ways to rent them. PM me anytime


It looks like you started building credit QUICKLY with multiple negs back in 2004 HOW THE HECK DID YOU DO IT!!!

I have a few small paid collections (749 and 312) from 2001 paid 2003 when I closed my first property. I removed 1 in 2003 verizon but it reared it's ugly head again in MAY 07. I did a AOR anyway I got 50,000 more credit but no business credit, I tried but only denials.

ofcourse 1 week after AOR I got pissed about the VERIZON collection and decided to fight and sure enough I got it removed, stating it was reinserted wrongfuly per FCRA and POOF in days gone from all 3 CRA's

Anyway, I've since bumped the TU's 19 and EQ's 31 back to 1 and 0... How can I get LOC's, I talked to AMEX and SHE approved 10,000 LOC then denied. actually I did get 2 AMEX bus for 3000 each and a chase for 6000 ( small pickins). I'm planing on locking EXP. 11/1/07 and am as ready as i'll every be to try again. I need to move some balances to business.

TU is 720 now fico, EQ 687 fico, EX 671 faco

report 350,000 income HHI 610,000 and this is the best I can do credit wise.

Any suggestions on the best business AOR accounts to go for, I just applied chase,bofa,bankatlantic,citi but only CLI personal,PNC, national city.

46000 merrill +
38,000 chase handyman
17500 citi
10100 FNBO
7800 discover
8500 providian
7000 wamu
7000 pnc
3000 bofa
and other small 1000 or less

31000 bofa
24000 citi
6000 chase
3000 AMEX
2200 AMEX
I've been thinking of moving some chase per. to biz but don't want to loose the limit on report. Any suggestions???


Any suggestions on the best business AOR accounts to go for, I just applied chase,bofa,bankatlantic,citi but only CLI personal,PNC, national city.

I just found out that Wells Fargo approved me for a $35,000 credit line, and a $10,000 credit card. I'm up about $70,000 in business credit lines since my business AOR a few months ago. I got it specifically to take advantage of the Real Estate (Buyer's) market. I'm curious to know what area your duplexes are located. Are you a Realtor/Investor? I think SCM will be just fine with his credit->asset->cash->more credit strategy. I'm getting my RE license reactived real soon so I can find some more deals. I had a big scare coming back from my vacation when I found out that one of my mortgage companies failed to process my online payment(s) on a mortgage, which resulted in a 30-day late for September. TrueCredit.com notified me right away, so I made a desparate phone call last week, and called up again "broken heated" today, and they were able to verify that they sent letters to the credit bureaus ordering the removal of the derogatory accounts. I've had the worst credit before, and struggled to come back to perfect credit, which, BTW, is relatively easy to care for, once you have it. I applied to five banks for business credit cards and LOCs, 2 local, and WF, BofA, and WaMu. Only one of the local banks came back with just a lousy SBA offer or $25K. Everyone else gave me credit cards and LOCs ranging from $5-10K. BofA bought MBNA recently, because they liked their credit card division, but so far, everyone I know who has business credit lines seems to get the most from Wells Fargo. MBNA is still my best personal credit card @ $35K. What I've learned about biz credit, however, is that being prepared helps when you apply: Have your business entity--LLC preferably, or Corp., and have your business license (helpful but not critical), business address (a virtual/shared office will do--not mailboxes etc.), and of course a tax ID number. Since it's initially based on your personal credit, they're not overly concerned with verifying income and assets. A banker told me that Dr.s get the most unsecured business credit, generally, and if you're in the real estate business, they like to see (or at least hear) that you have more than just rental income. If you get an SBA credit line offer, you'll be turned down when they ask if you have more than $100K in cash assets. (BTW, I'm not a fan of taking out gov't secured financing based on stated income and assets, but to each his own.) The limit is $25K, but some banks will give you a little bigger line, with the $25K as their security. All the business credit I've obtained was without proof beyond my credit scores, currently at TU-742, Exp-721, EQ-763. I'd be happy to share any other personal experiences via PM, especially the real estate deals you've put together. Rock on SCM!


CONGRATS on the wellsfargo, they're not here in TN. I'm a RE speculator/Landlord but really it's good but the daily stress just Sucks. I'm not a realtor, but I do want to sell my duplexs RETAIL as townhouses. I paid 33.5 PER SQFT and new (really nice) townhouses here can sell for as much as 145 PER SQFT.

It'll take a boat load of money, but will return bigger boat load of $$$$$$. You said your getting REALTOR LIC., knowing how to manage the Tenants is the most important!!! I can find distressed properties anytime, Finance and management is the key.

Well and ofcourse repairing and upgrading them, the cheaper the better.

Oh, and when making mortgage payment, until it clears the bank, the payment hasn't been made. You MUST FOLLOW UP and make sure the payment credits. What if a lender did an A/R just as the late was reported.

AMEX will AX you ASAP!!!

and when making mortgage payment, until it clears the bank, the payment hasn't been made. You MUST FOLLOW UP and make sure the payment credits. What if a lender did an A/R just as the late was reported.

That's a very good point. I made the mistake of checking only the mortgage company's ledger online, which did in fact show that I made the payment...for both electronic transfers....neither time had it ever cleared the bank...and of course the mtg. company treats you like all the other delinquents who may try to fool the bank by purposely losing a bk acct digit in their online payment. But my excellent pmt history with them and my willingness to show them that the money was in my account the whole time convinced them that it wasn't my error. I just checked my reports at TrueCredit.com and the Experian deliquent mark is already off, so I'm going to contact TU to make sure the other one gets off right away. I just don't want to lose my 1.9% BT that I have going with BofA (formerly MBNA), so I'll have to watch that one very closely. I did notice that Wells Fargo pulled my Equifax, my highest score (774) which would explain why they gave me such a high limit. BTW, my bank mentioned a 4th credit bureau--Innovis--to whom they report. I'm going to have to look into this 4th bureau, and make sure everything is clean there too.

W3, you mentioned that you'll be locking your EXP. I'll have to look into the locking thing. I've been procrastinating to remove my fraud alerts so I can get more instant credit offers, as I'll be looking to do another AOR soon. My last wave of inquiries was in July. Is there a rule about how long to wait before doing another AOR? Is it 6, 9, or 12 months, or just until the scores are back up over 700. Thanks for any feedback on that.

Here's the way I see it. If I can only apply for credit and have it follow me for 2 years, then that isn't good enough. I don't want to do business with any lender that will mark me for 2 years!!!!

If they want to pull EXP than just deny me or pull another. Soon many will have CRA's locked and it takes days to unlock, so if they call and say " your EXP is locked" then you know who they'll pull and I'd rather not have the inquiry. So I'll get back to them when it's unlocked. Lenders will get use to reports being locked, If they NEED TO GIVE OUT CREDIT, then they'll pull another. If they don't NEED to give credit they may deny you.

Hell if they pull my EXP with 20 and 10 in last month, I'll be denied anyway.

I disputed 11 inquires with EQ online no questions asked, I had 31 EQ's, now 6. B* tu from 19 to 1 in 2 weeks and still have 20 on EXP.

I won't do business with them again!!! and I won't do business with anyone who does using EXP!!!! Until mortgage ofcourse

If TU and EQ are 0, then I think you can do BUSINESS AOR once a month. It sounds like SCM is in a constant AOR, it doesn't stop. As long as there are not a bunch of new accounts on your report.

This is called off the books financing MCI style

Hope this helped

if you read JARACON's AOR after he had, I think 15+ new accounts in 12 months. AMEX and CHASE axed him.

So to answer your question, If new accounts are business, THEN AOR ALL YEAR!!!! If new accounts are personal then wait 6 months, but you can't have 20 new personal accounts in 1 year. It's just not worth getting A/A. Building personal credit is a house of cards. building business credit is long term.

I was on a web site last year messin around and I was putting in financial info (earnings), for something I don't remember. I think it was an app for chase. But anyway I put 350,000.00 for Income and the website came back with (ERROR please check your info, that income would put you in the top 1% of the country).

So if you think about it, we are running businesses through our personal credit and being compared with other wage earning W-2 employees. I'M NO EMPLOYEE and you can't score me with them. I'ts not acurate, so I will proactively hide my debt to protect myself.

Anyway I'm sure you get the idea..


Hi everybody! I'm finally checking in to see what's going on. I've been taking advantage of nice weather hear in Pa to be outside working my businesses to survive the upcoming winter. Upgrading my car lot buildings, fixing cars, buying cars, and selling one or 2 occasionally. I hope the appearance and product upgrades bring in more customers. The RE income is $10K a month lower than the $35K a month in bills so this better work. I'm going to read all your posts and get back to you with my thoughts.

Win333, You seem to be much more successful in a short time than I've been in my 28 years of experience and head start that I had. Major congrats! Thanks for sticking up for me. I could use some encouragement once in a while. DW's always on my case that I'm a failure because my business is losing money and I can't buy her the things she "deserves" for putting up with me and my worries and stress, and what she interprets as a bad attitude.


I've been applying for some new accounts this month. Just got approved for Suntrust Visa at $11K and Citi FlexLine at unknown limit yet. Also applied for 53 Bank Biz card, US Bank Harley card, and US Bank Worldperks Biz card too. DW applied for 53 Bank Biz card, Bank Atlantic biz, Juniper US Air biz, and Chase Freedom. She got the Freedom but they took $10K from her one personal Rewards card that had a $17.6K limit and put the $10K as the limit on the new card. Not cool. I've also gotten several $500 CLI's on some of my Citi personal cards and a CLI from $5K to $25K on my HD biz revolving credit account.

I paid some RE taxes with a check from my Compass Bank biz CC account. The checks had no conditions printed on them. They are just in a plain wallet size checkbook. Well Compass charged me a $900 cash advance fee and a $260 convenience check fee for using one of these unmarked checks. Plus, they classified the $23.5K balance as a cash advance at 23% interest for life of the balance. I called and they told me they wouldn't do anything about it. I'm going to have to BT the money out of there.



You could apply for the Discover biz card. I've got 2 of them They pull a soft on personal EX report but no hards. They aparently rely on biz credit for approval. Also, the Home Depot bix rewards MC requires only a federal tax ID number or EIN to apply. They may approve up to $25K. Build the biz charge lines with the big retailers. Lowes, HD, Sams, Staples, Office Max, etc., to create a strong biz credit file which will help in the future when you go after multiple CitiBusiness cards which offer BT checks at 0% APR. The Sams biz and Sams Biz Discover can be applied for in-store without completing the PG section of the app. If one store refuses to submit the app then go to another until you get a CSR who will. IT IS POSSIBLE.


supercreditman said: W3,

You could apply for the Discover biz card. I've got 2 of them They pull a soft on personal EX report but no hards. They aparently rely on biz credit for approval. Also, the Home Depot bix rewards MC requires only a federal tax ID number or EIN to apply. They may approve up to $25K. Build the biz charge lines with the big retailers. Lowes, HD, Sams, Staples, Office Max, etc., to create a strong biz credit file which will help in the future when you go after multiple CitiBusiness cards which offer BT checks at 0% APR. The Sams biz and Sams Biz Discover can be applied for in-store without completing the PG section of the app. If one store refuses to submit the app then go to another until you get a CSR who will. IT IS POSSIBLE.


I don't have a biz file yet but I do have a duns# can I get the DISCOVER BIZ with just that or should I wait until the paydex. I'm waiting on QUILL, GRAINGER and B2B credit builders to update.

I eupdated some financials thursday night with 750,000 in sales and like 3.5 million equity and friday D&B called and spoke to my apart. manager and said they were calling because the inquires on my D&B. Is this just a sales call???? or did the #'s freak them out and now they are going to want financials ((((ANYTHOUGHTS))))).

In my AOR last month I thought I applied for a DISC BIZ for my DBA and I thought they said they didn't offer in TN but I could be wrong. It gets so confusing when doing 30 apps at once...

Thanks for your help, and I wish you luck

Sorry. I didn't read your AOR thread. I just checked the Discover website and there are no state restrictions on the Terms and Conditions for the Discover Biz card. There is mention of special terms for Ohio and Wisconsin residents. Maybe I'm wrong though because I'm no expert at credit. I just rode as passenger with DW to go to Sam's Club this afternoon. I decided to take a couple bozes of my CC account cards in envelopes with me so I could pull them from the envelopes and put them in a 3 ring binder with business card organizer pages in it. I'm not done yet but up to this point I have a confirmed 165 credit accounts in my name or in my business names. DW has dozens more, probably over a 100. I'm going to do hers soon the same way. I bought enough organizer pages for 600 cards. Sorry to mislead you about what cards you might be able to acquire.



I didn't think you were misleading, Like I said after doing 30 apps (I didn't make good notes)
it's all just a blurr. I'll call them tomorrow and make sure. I got the more card last month for 7800
I would have rather had the biz card. (hide debt

I appreciate your time and am studying everything you say, Cause YOU ARE DA MAN

I have 20 on exp. just like everyone else. So i'm trying to come up with a plan.

Did you get my PM???

What would CITI say if they pulled all 3 CRAs for a mortgage and saw 0 20 6 any idea???

I wonder also if we would be in the same pull area TN and PA, maybe we could use each others pull info

Also I didn't post an AOR thread , I just did 30 apps 9-17ish-07

thanks for the reply, i'll be around


If you can freeze your reports, particularly the Experian, I'd do it. I've got my EX frozen. I simply apply for Ex pullers and some will send letters stating they couldn't access the file, others will call and ask for access to the file so they can process my request, and some will pull an alternate report automatically while others do if I ask them to when they call. Either way, the EX report is the one you don't want any hits on unless it's absolutely necessary. Sorry, I haven't done my reading before writing. I don't know what's going on here on FW lately because I haven't been keeping up. When the winter weather gets here, I'll be on the computer more.


DW got the Chase Freedom card in the mail today. $10K CL. They took the $10K away from one of her 2 Signature Rewards cards. I'm waiting to find out if 53 Bank approved my biz card app. They pulled an #Q yesterday and another today. We both applied for the Infibank/Suntrust card. Mine is open with $11K CL and her's was opened and immediately closed for some odd reason. The limit used to be $16K. Bummer. Still waiting to find out if Etrade will give me a Visa. They never did a report pull, prsumeably due to frozen EX file. DW and I both got the Citi Flexlines but my checkbook hasn't arrived yet. I need EQ pullers here in Pa.



You do know the freedom card doesn't report the limit, right. But chase did tell me that mine had no HARD limit. The CL was 15,000 but I could go over the limit as long as it was paid by the statement date. Same thing on my CITI BIZ card, they let me go over the limit by 6,000 (I used the wrong card), I called and made a 10,000 payment and begged for forgivness and the guy said "Oh your alright, your allowed to do that". I didn't know

You said "Infibank/suntrust"?????? I have a suntrust and just combined it with my FIA/MERRILL+ card. Did suntrust change????

Sorry to here about the 2 pulls for 5/3rd, I got the INQ and the (out of area)crap GRRRRRRRR
I applied for ZIONS last month, they just played stupid when I called and said they didn't see my app. Another waisted INQ

man they closed your wifes card quick.

This thread is awesome, good luck guys


I recall you stating that your DW recently got her Phd. You know the banks are going to give her higher limits if/when she incorporates or forms an LLC. My banker at WAMU told me that Dr.s get the highest initial credit limits when applying for business credit. An M.D. friend of mine confided to me that she had recently closed all but one of her credit cards....doh!!! She has perfect credit, and lots of cash, and works only a few days a week with her practice...it's like the saying...youth is wasted on the young. For the rest of us, we have to work a little harder for the system to work for us.

Sorry to hear about your vacant properties...if I was in your area, I'd help you out with that... I have a note due from a house I sold a couple of years ago, worth about $100K, but, the market is down, and I suspect that the buyer/borrower will need my help when it comes time to refinance, especially when the appraisal comes back about $20K less than the contract price...you probably create/carry your own paper at your dealership so you know where I'm coming from...I do the same thing with real estate. What I'd like to do is restructure the note so that I get most of the cash, and continue carrying that paper at 6-7% for 30 years, and continue the payment on my note, at 4 7/8% for 9 only more years, then migrate the note into my Roth self-directed IRA, and/or use it as an income stream/asset for future credit apps.

My last R.E. deal allowed me to pay off just about all the revolving accounts...it's been 6 months, and the credit card co.'s are really missing me having a balance with them, so a few of them--Chase, Capital One, Discover--are offering me 0% balance transfers again. It's nice when they can't see that I have nearly $100K of credit on the business side. The great news is that the 30-day late from last month's mtg online pmt glich is off my TU now...that took less than 2 weeks to go from 2 derogs to NO derogs. Lesson learned. My TU went from 706 to 754, and my wife's went from 701 to 749 just by losing that 1 30-day late! TrueCredit.com DID NOT send me an alert telling me that my report had changed. Another lesson learned--they only send email-alerts for inquiries and negatives.

I think it's time for us to lock our Experians, clear out our TU and EQ inquiries and transfer out my personal revolving balances to business lines, and go for a real AOR around Christmas time. Meanwhile the wife's LLC is seasoned (6 months old) so she's ready for business apps anytime now. Our scores are sitting at 754-TU/718-EXP/775-EQ, DW> 749-TU/703-EXP/776-EQ. Wish me luck!

TrueCredit.com DID NOT send me an alert telling me that my report had changed. Another lesson learned--they only send email-alerts for inquiries and negatives.Q said:

Correction on that. Apparently they're lagging a few days on their good updates.... I just got an "improved account" alert for the TU 30-day late. No mention of the Experian delinquency changing just yet, although it's gone already.

Some more BT checks have arrived too. I'm guessing Christmas time might be the best time to do BT's, CLI's and such, since they expect us all to spend extra $$ around this time.

Thanks again for the credit report locking tips.

got a side question, I have been working overseas for 3 years, so is my credit score still the same as 3 years ago, or it got worse since I haven't been building any credits?

Your credit score is 618 - a bit better than it was 39 months ago when it was 610.

Silly question, how in the world would we know... It depends more on what you did before you left. If you maintained all our accounts it could be better - all your lines have aged, and some may well have had credit line increases. If you closed a bunch of accounts before you left it may well have gotten worse.

You'd know a lot better than us.

supercreditman said:

I don't contact the creditors. I don't ever dispute inquiries with TU or EX. I call Equifax.


Hola supercreditman,

Thanks for this great thread. I think your sharing with us will make a big difference in my second AOR later this month. I appreciate your help

Question, why not dispute -- or "investigate" -- Transunion inquiries? What happens if you do?



Hey funny story, SCM....

I just turned 22, and just got into your little plan SCM before i even found this website (i was just searching for one of my cc's login pages haha). I just was awake bored one night and thought of a very similar idea. It's gotten me outa every hole and financial rut in my life ever since in the very short amount of time I've learned of it(less than 12 months). It probably is known by more than the people who have seen this post. I sometimes wonder if this might be also indirectly causing the credit bubble that the financial markets have seen this year. Could that many know?

I only read so far 2 pages of the post and eventually will read them all but...a few things i thought i might share. remember i haven't read all this post so if i find the discussing in this topic I will edit my post....anywho a few things...

It seemed like you were doing the following, from ur CC app date track record on the 1st post:

Wouldn't it be smart to xfer a new cc's balance prior to 3 months (i think that's the cutoff). Reason being is your credit score is highly effected by the credit limit and your % of it is balance. 7% is said to be a key figure of balance on each CC. (insanely low). Thus if you pay off your new cc's balance by xfer or whatever u do then u can be reported with a 0 balance before that cc is reported to your credit report, boosting score.

Another thing with this whole idea is i kinda took it a step further, tricky and _not_ illegal (no one will be summonced for it) - (paypal sometimes will lock accts and all u gota do is just prove a bunch of financial info to unlock it), it's just against paypal's TOC so u gota be sneaky with multi accts.

Take ur 0% xfers and 0% purchase offers (for a year is more comfortable). The xfers go right to ur bank, then xfer'ed to zecco.com (low cost of stock trades). or, for 0% purch cards, donate to paypal (ez to set up), small fee, then to bank/zecco.

There u go. next time u find something like google going up 10 fold, imagine the possibilities.

I'll be reading this post in my spare time and also checking out this AOR thread. This is some good info to see i'm not the only crazy one like scm

question if I apply for a mortgage my credit score will be lower, but if I pay it off in like 3,4 months then will my credit be back to the same as before? or better?

what happens to the people who flip houses, what happens to their credit since they keep on getting mortgage etc

okaythen said: question if I apply for a mortgage my credit score will be lower, but if I pay it off in like 3,4 months then will my credit be back to the same as before? or better?

what happens to the people who flip houses, what happens to their credit since they keep on getting mortgage etc
stop being worried about the inquity hit for applying for a mortgage. Its just a few points.

Most people who flip houses use existing lines of credit, not new mortgages as they take too long and have too many fees/closing costs.

People need to stop being scared of inquiries.


I didn't pay that much attention to the Freedom but I know I won't apply for it. Chase upped DW's one Chase biz card limit by $4K from $19.8 to $23.8. Infibank definitely services Suntrust personal cards. I don't know about the biz cards. I'm thinking of calling about the biz card soon, maybe tomorrow.


DW didn't get a PhD. She got a second masters, not quite as good but still impressive. She's got lots of biz credit established. She doesn't care for more. I, on the other hand, need all I can get so I can BT and keep the rates low.
I have only sold property when I got close to forclosure. Hopefully, I won't go there again. My blanket mortgage has $955K balance and just reset to 9% for the next 12 months. The payment is going down from $10600 to $10,300 a month. But since my monthly healthcare plan payment went up to $1272 a month recently, and utilities and taxes keep going up, it will be harder and harder to keep going. If I wan't making a couple extra thousand a month with the cars, I'd toast long ago.
Now, I've got a couple more vacancies that I know won't get filled until spring, 5 months from now. It sounds like you're on the right track with the BT's to biz credit. I managed to keep debt from showing on the personal side until 3 months ago when I upgraded my lot and bought 50 more cars. I have over 150 vehicles now. Many of them SUV's, which go great around here. I just sold one that I bought 2 1/2 months ago for $2000, and put another $400 in repairs into it because it needed an exhaust manifold. I sold it for $4K cash. I was worth $4850, but I think that's a decent profit. I certainly can't get that kind of profit with renting the RE. I had to average $550 a month per tenant to break even, but I've only been averaging about $400 a month per tenant in rent income, and the market is very weak for rentals here. I have significant competition.
I don't do dealer financing or buy-here-pay-here. Too much paperwork and many times the repos come back in poor condition. A dealer I carpool with takes his repos back to the auctions and I help him by bidding on the cars up to what he wants and then stop bidding and hopefully someone else bids a little higher and he sells the car to them, or if nobody bids higher, he turns down my bid, of course. He's trying to get away from it because it's such a hassle. I know other property owners who wanted out of real estate, including this dealer friend of mine, but couldn't find a buyer for the properties year after year. So the made rent-to-own deals with the tenants. Many of the tenants gutted rooms to prepare for remodeling or trashed the properties in other ways and the owners took them back, having to spend thousands to make them saleable again. Now they've resorted to renting them again.
Freezing EX is a great idea. I don't think I'll freese the other 2, unless TU "b" stops working, then I'll freeze that.


TU won't investigate inquiries, period. Other content yes, inquiries no.


I don't see the humor in the story, but that's because I'm living the nightmare. Sometimes, the crafty deals you guys talk about on FW and do are way over my knowledge and comfort level. I know zip about investing and will never risk anything investing on someone else's business. I don't do BT's on a weekly or monthly basis because when my wife tries to do the financial reports, it's extremly complicated already what account was used for what type of purchase and then part of it BT'd to an account that has a balance from a different kind of purchase or BT. Mizing RE, propane sales, computer sales, building material sales, and dealership lending accounts, plus her counselling income, is an income tax nightmare already.


Thanks for answering that question.

General info,

USAA dropped my $26K CC limit to $1K due to high personal utilization and 2 old MBNA settled accounts reporting on my EX report. I hope that doesn't start a tideal wave of CLD's.


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