Scam? United First Financial Money Merge Account

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I did some searching a I couldn't find anything so here it goes...

My friend's husband is gullible. He'd buy a rubber liferaft in the middle of a dry lake.

He went to a seminar held by Unite First Financial concerning paying off their mortgage super fast. My friend said that they want to sell a computer program for $3500. Seems like a total scam.

United First Financial's site...

How legit can this be? None I know but how to prove it to the guy sitting in the rubber liferaft in the middle of the dry lake?

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SCAM, SCAM, SCAM
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the program is likely a calculator (that will be a $3500 calculator thank you) that tells your that if you increase your mortgage payments, it will be paid off faster. Paying off your mortgage faster is a bad idea.

So yes.

kamalktk said: [Q] Paying off your mortgage faster is a bad idea.

If blanket answers like that were universally true we wouldn't have had an extensive thread with smart people on both sides of the discussion arguing the merits.

It is highly dependent on the situation.

Is this calculator a scam? yes, but not because paying off a mortgage faster is idea.


overclock, ScootyPuffSr and I may disagree on paying the house off early, but I think we both agree that Unite First Financial is a scam.

While I think this United First Financial site is a tad sketchy, what they are talking about is a legitmate option, here you can find this type of account through a legit lender.

Thanks for the replies.

Everybody is always looking for a way to reduce their mortgage term. I won't argue or debate that here. But one thing is for sure there are a lot of scams out there.

It looks like scam but it will be really great if it is not.

One agent has put his profile on myspace.

Agent

overclock said: [Q]Everybody is always looking for a way to reduce their mortgage term.Not everybody! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border=0>

Do you pay extra...

I actually had someone approach me last week about this. It is somebody I know and trust. He is also well respected in the community. I would be surprised if he is caught up in a scam or pyramid scheme. He asked for copies of anything that I am in debt with. I gave him a copy of our mortage and two car loans. He is supposed to get back to me this weekend. He is entering my information into the program and will let me know if I really can pay off my mortgage in 13 years compared to the 28 years I have left.

I don't understand it 100% and am just looking into it. I would not do anything without 100% knowledge of the product and the approval of Fatwallet. He explained that i am opening up an interest only equity account and that I would be borrowing from it during the month, but also depositing money back into it. I will post more when I have received his results.



Hahahahaha, gotta love this (from the agent's myspace page):
[Q]Would you like to become a Branch Manager and earn a substantial six figure income in commissions, overrides and bonuses? Call me or send me an email today and we'll see if you have what it takes. My email address is employment_director@yahoo.com.

and under that:
[Q]Income: $60,000 to $75,000

From the description it looks like their 'program' is...

1. Take out a mortgage
2. Take out a HELOC
3. At the beginning of every month, transfer 1 month's worth of your paycheck (the amount of ALL the money you'll earn that month from working), minus your expenses from the LOC to the mortgage as extra principal
4. Write checks against the LOC for all your bill payments
5. Every time you get a paycheck, direct deposit & transfer the balance cover the HELOC debt.


In other words, you don't really have money in the bank, you pay everything with debt, and every dollar's immediately going to cover some debt.

There's some logic to it, but it makes little sense if the interest cost on the LOC will be
higher than on the mortgage.


Maybe with a 0% BT offer it could more likely make sense to do this.

If you have BT money sitting in a savings account at only 5% interest,
consider using a certain amount as extra principal on a mortgage, if say the
home loan costs you 7.0% in terms of interest, your possible after-tax return
from reducing that debt is maybe larger than your return from earning interest
on that same money in your savings account.


The catch is, you eventually need to repay the 0% offer, so you need
to have retained enough that your income over the rest of the BT term - expenses
+ the remaining BT funds >= the 0% debt.




visualbang said:
[Q]I actually had someone approach me last week about this. It is somebody I know and trust. He is also well respected in the community. I would be surprised if he is caught up in a scam or pyramid scheme.

FWIW, trust and reputation is a common precursor to scams, frequently called affinity fraud:

http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/moneymag/scam/index.html

[Q]But what really sold Niggeling was the hard sell by his nephew. With affinity fraud, as regulators call it, the con artist infiltrates a social group like a church or professional club, then persuades his new friends to enroll in his scheme.

Maybe the deal is legit, but maybe not. Trust, but verify, especially if it seems fishy.

ripoff ... hold on to your wallet ... you don't need to spend $3500 to pay down your mortgage ... indeed, if that's what you want to do, take the $3500 and send it directly to your mortgage company ...

HowdyDew provided excellent links , READ THEM.

DO NOT GIVE ANYONE $3500 to do this! You can do it for FREE by setting up a HELOC. These companies are not just making $3500 off you, they are making THOUSANDS MORE by brokering the loans they sell to you too!

Any mortgage broker can setup an identical system for you, many at no charge (they get paid from the lender).

So yes this is a SCAM.

So I read those links and I do feel much more informed now. I will pay anybody to give me a $3500 calculator, but SIS or anybody else, would this be worth doing ourselves or just forget this idea and pay another few hundred to the mortgage company every month.

Mortgage Balance -$130,000 - for 28 more years at 5.75%
4000 left on one car loan at 7% (around 14 payments left
12,000 on another car loan at 6% for 3 more years
13,000 in student loans at 3.75%
We only have about 2000 in debt besides this but that is at 0% interest

Bought home for $150,000 but recently had it appraised for 205,000. We currently have an $8000 HELOC with a zero balance at 8%.

Should we consider doing this method? Any suggestions would be great

visualbang said: [Q]So I read those links and I do feel much more informed now. I will pay anybody to give me a $3500 calculator, but SIS or anybody else, would this be worth doing ourselves or just forget this idea and pay another few hundred to the mortgage company every month.

Mortgage Balance -$130,000 - for 28 more years at 5.75%
4000 left on one car loan at 7% (around 14 payments left
12,000 on another car loan at 6% for 3 more years
13,000 in student loans at 3.75%
We only have about 2000 in debt besides this but that is at 0% interest

Bought home for $150,000 but recently had it appraised for 205,000. We currently have an $8000 HELOC with a zero balance at 8%.

Should we consider doing this method? Any suggestions would be great

read the existing threads on people considering this, using "non scam" lenders

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?catid=52&threadid=701119&highlight_key=y&keyword1=salem

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?catid=52&threadid=702283&highlight_key=y&keyword1=harj

They explain why it does NOT make sense to move from a 5.75% mortgage to a HELOC type product with rates in the 7-8% range. Since you likely wont be depositing more than $8,000 each month in earnings, you could replicate 99% of this "system" by simply paying down your HELOC with each paycheck, and drawing on it when necessary to pay bills. Simply read the threads so you understand how this works. its not magic.

Here is my understanding of the plan.

1. Take out a HELOC.
2. Make an advance against the HELOC.
3. Apply the funds to the principal of your first mortgage.
4. Apply all of your incoming funds each month immediately to the HELOC.
5. Use the HELOC's checks to make all of your outgoing payments.

Curtailing the first mortgage by "X" dollars will shorten the number of years needed to repay, all other things being equal (that is, the payment and rate do not change).

So far, so good.

Where I see that this plan falls short is that this only works to the extent that you can keep the HELOC at or near zero principal balance (assuming that the rate on the HELOC is higher than the rate on your first). The only way that you can keep the HELOC near zero is if your average monthly balance in your checking account was the same amount that you prepaid the first mortgage by. In other words, if you took a $10K HELOC and made a lump-sum $10K payment to the first mortgage, you need to have an average collected balance in the bank of $10K to keep that HELOC at zero.

Even if you collect $10K per month in cash income each month, it's unlikely that you have a $10K collected balance. I think that most people write checks for just about whatever comes in ("paycheck to paycheck" or "hand to mouth").

The point is that you can only keep a HELOC balance to zero to the extent that you have the cash on hand each and every day. So, let's say your income is $60K per year--after taxes--you could in theory do this plan for $5K ($60K / 12 months).

Things to remember, though.

If your HELOC has any principal outstanding whatsoever, that interest expense more than offsets the interest savings on the mortgage. Also, you really don't need a HELOC to do this, if you really have the collected balances. You could just write a check to the first mortgage to curtail the loan, but then you might have a liquidity problem down the road. Above all else, I can't see why you need a $3,500 program to make this happen. You can figure all of this stuff out with Excel for free.

And if you are going to do this with only a $5K to $10K curtailment, you can shorten your first mortgage's lifespan equally by making VERY small principal curtailments each month without making a lump-sum payment. And if you have the kind of income where you are bringing home $20K-plus each month, you should be able to curtail your mortage each month without all of this shell game.

I won't get into the debate on pre-paying your mortgage. Everyone has their own comfort to take into account. Some people want to have their home paid off by the time they are "Y" years old. To each his own. My opinion, generally, is that the after-tax cost of mortgage money is so cheap that there are other places you could put your cash besides additional principal payments, but again the choice is personal.

United First Financial is definately NOT a scam. I was approached too ...and was skeptical also. It sort of sounded too good to be true. But then I spent hours googling everything about this concept... as well as the company itself... and I used a mortgage calculator to verify the math... or at least as close as I could get to it.

What they are doing is a slight variation of the Current Account Mortgage. One THIRD of all mortgages (for over 10 years now) in the UK, Europe and Australia are CAM's. Richard Branson, of Virgin Airlines, launched a company called One Account, which was bought out by the Royal Bank of Scotland in 97. That mortgage has won numerous awards (found this on google).

It IS a sophisticated concept (and over the heads of some folk - by the way, Dude... interest is only one part of an equation. Higher or lower interest is a moot point until you know the principal amount and the term) ... and while there are a couple of companies here in the US doing a CAM... because of US banking laws most people cannot qualify for them (you must have excellent credit and jump through some major hoops).

United First Financial has devised a rather ingenious work-around solution which some on here described pretty accurately... money borrowed from an equity line to go to the primary mortgage... managed by a software program. Does it work better if you have more money to throw at the mortgage? Sure. But debt restructure helps a lot too. The thing that appealed to me was that it seemed like something my Average Joe clients could be successful with... without really changing anything major.

Is $3500 for the program expensive? I guess it depends on how smart you think you are. According to the company website the software was designed by a PhD aeronautics mathmatician (those guys are pretty darn accurate - ask an astronaut) and recalculates the homeowners variables with every penny going in and out. So if the algorithim shows you paying off and saving $180,000 in interest... you have to ask yourself... how much of a margin of error are you going to have compared to the software?

A 5% margin for most folks... still means the cost of the software is worth it... especially if you do not enjoy spending your weekend pouring over spread sheets and punching numbers in a calculator. The cost is not out of pocket, but out of the line of credit. So... I guess you would have to factor in the value of your time, and convenience.

I looked at their software... it would probably take about 15 minutes to update monthly... maybe a bit longer if one wanted to change some major variables. It has a cost-of-goods calculator in it also... so you can pretend you are going to make a major purchase and see how it affects your pay off. Again... something the Average Joe could wrap their head around.

All in all... I spent $4000 for my MAC and related software... and it has not saved me any money at all yet. Though it has saved me time... so I feel it was money worth spending.

Anyway..... just wanted the original post-er on here to know that her friends husband is not being gullible (though she is a good friend to be concerned). Perhaps he just did the research.

Oh... and by the way... in my opinion... this program is excellent for folks that need to better manage their finances. Many of my clients do not truly understand the real nature of consumer interest and debt... and how it is affecting their lives. I had a client recently with numerous credit card bills and a mortgage... over $46,000 in interest alone... paid in the last two years. The way they were going... they were looking at retiring at about 75, maybe 74, and that was if nothing went wrong.

With this United First Financial program... rolling their credit cards and car loan into the program restructures their debt and frees up about $450 a month. Initially they can do the program as planned, but after the line of credit is back down to almost $0, I am suggesting they also pull out a couple of hundred a month to go to a tax-free investment... and they will still have their mortgage paid off and be completely debt free in less than 14 years. Then... they can take the mortgage payment they are not paying anymore... and invest that too.

It is worth checking out.

http://frugalliving.about.com/od/dealingwithmoney/a/mortgagetruth.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_merge_account

Wow, first post. You don't have any personal stake in this per chance?

Keller Racing wrote...

[Q]If your HELOC has any principal outstanding whatsoever, that interest expense more than offsets the interest savings on the mortgage.

Ok... I agree with a lot of what he/she said, but we do not have to keep the equity line at zero... just low enough. Let us do some math...

$400,000 mortgage at 6% - new loan.
borrow $5000 from a Heloc at 10%
Total interest saved on primary mortage over life of loan because of that one transfer... over $46,000.

Balance on heloc - even if interest paid was 10%... on $5000. would be less than $50. for that month (you do not do this every month).

BUT.. the heloc is a variable rate - open ended loan... which means that interest gets charged only on the average daily balance. So let us say we have about $4000 in income... and maybe $3000 in expenses. Avg daily balance would be maybe $4000... but maybe not... because it depends when bills go out... and income comes in. That could shave off another $30-60% of that amount if we time it right (or had a software program that did it for us).

Regardless... trading short term debt for long term interest savings... always a good trade as long as (like Keller said) we do not let it get out of whack - out of balance and run the equity line up to some huge amount that sits there for years.

Basically what we are doing is nickel and diming our principal down on the primary side. But any money thrown at a primary mortgage, especially at the beginning... saves about 4X that amount in interest.

This concept of using a heloc to pay down a mortgage is not at all new... smart money folks have been doing it awhile. The only thing is... unless someone is a super brainy math type ... the best they can do is a good guess on amounts of transfer and frequency of transfers and hope they get close to the optimum amount. Take too much out on the equity line side and you pay too much interest there. Short the primary mortgage by only transferring small, conservative amounts... and you could easily lose the opportunity to save thousands more (above example - if it was shorted by a $1000 - would lose over $8000 in interest NOT saved on the mortgage, and save only about $10 in interest on the equity line side). And on something like your mortgage, with all that front end loaded interest ...well.... close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.

Money spread - money float... is powerful ...and the pennies, nickels and dimes add up quickly on front end loaded fixed rate loans.

It is why the banking industy has such nice buildings.

Only in the sense that I spent a lot of time researching this... (still was tonight) and figured that perhaps it should not go to waste.

Besides ...while I enjoy a healthy debate... it gets confusing when folks weigh in with an opinion before they have done the homework.

One thing that I have NOT done yet though (which I was doing tonight)... is to get comparison numbers to see how this work-around solution that United First has... compares with the one from CMG Financing. CMG is a true current account mortgage where you do have to re-fi into an equity line with a variable rate.

I think I could qualify for it... but I wonder how the math stacks up with the two. If they are pretty close... I like the idea of keeping the low fixed... just in case something wanky happens to the interest rates or the sky falls in.

But I wonder if anyone here has shopped both... or if anyone here is using a CMG or similar program?

RetirementPlanner said: [Q]United First Financial is definately NOT a scam.
[...]
It IS a sophisticated concept (and over the heads of some folk).
[...]
United First Financial has devised a rather ingenious work-around solution which some on here described pretty accurately.
[...]
[T]he software was designed by a PhD aeronautics mathmatician.
[...]
A 5% margin for most folks... still means the cost of the software is worth it.
[...]
Oh... and by the way... in my opinion... this program is excellent for folks that need to better manage their finances.
[...]
It is worth checking out.
This sounds like pure marketing schlock to me. I have a very hard time believing that you've no affiliation.

And who are these "clients" you keep referencing? How do you know so much about how using this program applies to these "clients" if you're still just googling about the concept "for your own purposes"? [Q]The thing that appealed to me was that it seemed like something my Average Joe clients could be successful with... without really changing anything major. [...] Many of my clients do not truly understand the real nature of consumer interest and debt... and how it is affecting their lives. I had a client recently with numerous credit card bills and a mortgage... over $46,000 in interest alone... paid in the last two years. The way they were going... they were looking at retiring at about 75, maybe 74, and that was if nothing went wrong.

With this United First Financial program... rolling their credit cards and car loan into the program restructures their debt and frees up about $450 a month. Initially they can do the program as planned, but after the line of credit is back down to almost $0, I am suggesting they also pull out a couple of hundred a month to go to a tax-free investment... and they will still have their mortgage paid off and be completely debt free in less than 14 years. Then... they can take the mortgage payment they are not paying anymore... and invest that too.
Matthew? Is that you?


lol, I think this guys 2 posts were exactly the same wording that the guy I know used to try and sell me this program.

Classic

oh and now I read the wink... that makes it even better, lol

RetirementPlanner said: [Q]Let us do some math...

$400,000 mortgage at 6% - new loan.
borrow $5000 from a Heloc at 10%
Total interest saved on primary mortage over life of loan because of that one transfer... over $46,000.

Yes, let's do some math...I would like to see where you are getting your figures. Mine are different.

$400K at 6% interest for 30 years means P&I of $2398/month. Interest expense over the life of the loan is $463K.

Curtailing the loan by $5K on Day 1 would shorten the life of the loan only to 348 months. The interest saved as a result is only $24K over the 348 month period.

Now someone will say, "But you're saving $24K by only putting in $5K...how does that not make sense?"

Simple. You're looking at the future value of money and I'm looking at the present value, and it's only the present value that matters because we are living in the here and now. $24K in 348 months, assuming a 6% interest rate, is worth only $5K today, not $24K. So you're basically investing $5K to have the equivalent of $5K in 348 months. (It's probably a little better than that because the inflation rate is not 6% currently, but over 348 months...who knows?)

Put another way, you could take that same $5K today and put it into a tax-free account that returns 6% for 348 months, and--voila!--you'd have $28K, more or less the same amount as the interest savings. (I need to look at why these two numbers are not the same...you would think they should be identical. If I made a mistake, I blame lack of coffee.)

Even more interesting to me, do you know how much extra principal you would have to pay on that $400K loan each month to shorten its life to the same 348 months?

Thirty bucks. Yup...a $30 principal curtailment each month will bring the life of that loan down by the same 12 months. Do you think you need a $3,500 program to help you make an extra $30 payment each month? Of course not. (And would you really spend $3,500 so that you could make a one-time $5K curtailment?)

Of course, the one thing that I think a lot of people are overlooking here is the simple fact that most people do not keep their mortgage in place for 30 years. We move, trade up, trade down, and of course being the credit-hungry nation that we are, we refinance and pull cash out and buy toys, etc. So, all of these interest savings calculations over decades are really moot, because we don't tend to hang on to property, or loans, for that long.

As I said in my first post, the idea of sweeping your collected cash and using it to curtail your loan makes sense, but I don't think you need to spend $3,500 to achieve comparable results, and I don't think most people will be able to magically cut their mortgage life from 30 years to eight.

Maybe these plans make more sense in different countries because of cultural differences in how they treat homes and loans and money. I don't know.

visualbang said: [Q]lol, I think this guys 2 posts were exactly the same wording that the guy I know used to try and sell me this program.
very easy to spot a shill. I bet this program is sold "MLM style" too.

Maybe I should pull money out of my Federal Savings account to open this United First Financial account...hey THATS a good idea! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border=0>

I was able to get hold on one of their agent and spoke with her about 2 hrs this weekend.
She gave me some demo of a software.

Basically they are selling a software and the license fee is $3500.

This software tells you when and how much to send from HELOC to mortgage.
According to her , the software learns from you earning and spending and optimizes the amount the transfer.

They are not any financial institution.

RetirementPlanner said: [Q]United First Financial is definately NOT a scam. I was approached too ...and was skeptical also. It sort of sounded too good to be true. But then I spent hours googling everything about this concept... as well as the company itself... and I used a mortgage calculator to verify the math... or at least as close as I could get to it.

What they are doing is a slight variation of the Current Account Mortgage. One THIRD of all mortgages (for over 10 years now) in the UK, Europe and Australia are CAM's. Richard Branson, of Virgin Airlines, launched a company called One Account, which was bought out by the Royal Bank of Scotland in 97. That mortgage has won numerous awards (found this on google).

It IS a sophisticated concept (and over the heads of some folk - by the way, Dude... interest is only one part of an equation. Higher or lower interest is a moot point until you know the principal amount and the term) ... and while there are a couple of companies here in the US doing a CAM... because of US banking laws most people cannot qualify for them (you must have excellent credit and jump through some major hoops).

United First Financial has devised a rather ingenious work-around solution which some on here described pretty accurately... money borrowed from an equity line to go to the primary mortgage... managed by a software program. Does it work better if you have more money to throw at the mortgage? Sure. But debt restructure helps a lot too. The thing that appealed to me was that it seemed like something my Average Joe clients could be successful with... without really changing anything major.

Is $3500 for the program expensive? I guess it depends on how smart you think you are. According to the company website the software was designed by a PhD aeronautics mathmatician (those guys are pretty darn accurate - ask an astronaut) and recalculates the homeowners variables with every penny going in and out. So if the algorithim shows you paying off and saving $180,000 in interest... you have to ask yourself... how much of a margin of error are you going to have compared to the software?

A 5% margin for most folks... still means the cost of the software is worth it... especially if you do not enjoy spending your weekend pouring over spread sheets and punching numbers in a calculator. The cost is not out of pocket, but out of the line of credit. So... I guess you would have to factor in the value of your time, and convenience.

I looked at their software... it would probably take about 15 minutes to update monthly... maybe a bit longer if one wanted to change some major variables. It has a cost-of-goods calculator in it also... so you can pretend you are going to make a major purchase and see how it affects your pay off. Again... something the Average Joe could wrap their head around.

All in all... I spent $4000 for my MAC and related software... and it has not saved me any money at all yet. Though it has saved me time... so I feel it was money worth spending.

Anyway..... just wanted the original post-er on here to know that her friends husband is not being gullible (though she is a good friend to be concerned). Perhaps he just did the research.

Oh... and by the way... in my opinion... this program is excellent for folks that need to better manage their finances. Many of my clients do not truly understand the real nature of consumer interest and debt... and how it is affecting their lives. I had a client recently with numerous credit card bills and a mortgage... over $46,000 in interest alone... paid in the last two years. The way they were going... they were looking at retiring at about 75, maybe 74, and that was if nothing went wrong.

With this United First Financial program... rolling their credit cards and car loan into the program restructures their debt and frees up about $450 a month. Initially they can do the program as planned, but after the line of credit is back down to almost $0, I am suggesting they also pull out a couple of hundred a month to go to a tax-free investment... and they will still have their mortgage paid off and be completely debt free in less than 14 years. Then... they can take the mortgage payment they are not paying anymore... and invest that too.

It is worth checking out.

http://frugalliving.about.com/od/dealingwithmoney/a/mortgagetruth.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_merge_account sorry for the quote, this is just too good. Need to preserve it for my future shill collection.

I agree as several others that paying $3500 for this idea is a rip-off.

That said, I think that the program is a good idea. As such, save yourself $3500 by following these steps:

1. Move your checking to Presidential to get 4.5% interest on the float.
2. Use the interest you earn every month from Presidential toward your mortgage principal.

[Q]The software was designed by a PhD aeronautics mathmatician.

I'm a lot smarter then many PhDs. Sometimes a degree is really nothing more then a piece of paper.

I like to know this Ph D's name and university he graduated from. I will also need to know the year he graduated from. I will call up the school to verify that info!

InsuranceGuy said: [Q]I agree as several others that paying $3500 for this idea is a rip-off.

That said, I think that the program is a good idea. As such, save yourself $3500 by following these steps:

1. Move your checking to Presidential to get 4.5% interest on the float.
2. Use the interest you earn every month from Presidential toward your mortgage principal.

3. If your mortgage apr > 5% (most bank's HYS rate), prepaid off the mortgage.
OR
4. Park that money into a HYS account AND take out the same amount at 0% BT offer for a year, use the BT and apply to your mortgage. Let your own money sit earning interest. Its the same as doing step 3 and playing AoR <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif" border=0>

There's no big secret in this world when it comes to personal finances. It can get pretty complex but all of it should not be some indecipherable secret. If it is, there's a flaw in it or its a scam.

Keller...

Apologies buddy... it was definately ME that needed the coffee.

YOUR math is correct - it was late and I was running two sets of numbers.

Yes... interest saved on that $5000 principle contribution would be half of what I said... only about $24K

However that is not a one time transfer... the software prompts for it when it sees it is appropriate... recalculating your variables whenever you enter a new one. As to how accurate one could be on ones own or how valuable ones time is... that is individual judgement and choice.

On a $400,000 mortgage that is due to pay off with a savings of over $280,000 in interest... you have to simply decide if you are willing to gamble that your guesses are going to be accurate enough ... as $3500 divided by the $280,000. interest savings means that you would have to have confidence that your margin of error would be less than 1.25%

All one would have to do though... is have one of those United people run an analysis on their own numbers... then spend a weekend seeing if they can program their own spreadsheet ... and how close they get to the same result. Most folks are not going to know how... nor would then want to... play with those numbers themselves.

As to whether it is better to pay off your mortgage... or invest elsewhere... it obviously depends on personal philosophy toward risk, where you plan to invest, and whether you feel more comfortable investing before, or after the roof over your head is paid for.

My brother... re-fied his house last year... and does Forex trading. Myself... I stay away from the stockmarket and money exchanges. Not that they are not valid... just not interesting.

Anyway... I am off. While this has been interesting Keller... I have a feeling that we are both swimming in the wrong pool. I get the sense that this forum is more about poking bears.

RP



for $3500, let's hope the program, "designed by a PhD aeronautics mathmatician", works better than their web-site. btw, i don't know what an aeronautics "mathmatician" is (engineer?), but i wouldn't want to fly in an airplane designed by a PhD finance "mathmatician".

RetirementPlanner said: [Q]Keller...

Anyway... I am off. While this has been interesting Keller... I have a feeling that we are both swimming in the wrong pool. I get the sense that this forum is more about poking bears.

RP

Quoted for preservation. This forum is full of financially saavy people that can sense a good investment opportunity to a scam.

WOW! Thanks for all the replies guys. Pretty interesting stuff and I've learned a lot.

I told my friend why not just take the $3500 they want for the stupid program and put it to your mortgage in the first place? She was p!ssed that her husband even bothered going to the seminar at all. She didn't buy it for a second but needed some way to explain it to her gullible husband. Your responses greatly helped. Thanks.

dcharles said: [Q]for $3500, let's hope the program, "designed by a PhD aeronautics mathmatician", works better than their web-site. btw, i don't know what an aeronautics "mathmatician" is (engineer?), but i wouldn't want to fly in an airplane designed by a PhD finance "mathmatician".Well, as RetirementPlanner says:[Q]According to the company website the software was designed by a PhD aeronautics mathmatician (those guys are pretty darn accurate - ask an astronaut)Yes, ask an astronaut. They're definitely the beacons of logic & reason these days.

RetirementPlanner said: [Q]Anyway... I am off. While this has been interesting Keller... I have a feeling that we are both swimming in the wrong pool. I get the sense that this forum is more about poking bears.

RP

Why am I swimming in the wrong pool? I don't recall anyone giving me a hard time.

Here are some old threads on offset mortgages, that should cover how/when this type of set up works, and how to do it yourself (no extra fees):

link 1

link 2

overclock said: [Q]WOW! Thanks for all the replies guys. Pretty interesting stuff and I've learned a lot.

I told my friend why not just take the $3500 they want for the stupid program and put it to your mortgage in the first place? She was p!ssed that her husband even bothered going to the seminar .

RULE #1 99% OF FINANCIAL SEMINARS ARE SCAMS

Skipping 46 Messages...
Why are trolls pushing their product on the board not just erased by the moderators?



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