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hipnetic said:   Here's a tip related to an experience of mine: Make sure when you're calculating a ROI that you're not leaving anything out. My example:

Last fall my landscaper wanted to charge me over $300 to do fall cleanup (mostly blowing leaves into the woods surrounding my property). The prior year, I watched them (about 4 of them) do the job using 2-3 backpack leafblowers and one push-behind leaf blower. I think it took them a couple of hours. I figured, hey, that's not too hard. I looked into blower options and decided to buy a contractor-grade backpack blower for about $500. Adding in the cost of fuel, I figured it would only take two years to pay for itself. I figured if it took them 1.5-2 hours to do the job, maybe I could get it done in 6.

Well, it turned out to be a *LOT* more work and consumed a *TON* more gas than I thought it would. It may be that my approach was way off (so lack of a skill could be a factor), but I think I just underestimated how productive they were actually being with the extra guys and machines. After working on the yard for several days (2-4 hours per day) and burning through a whole case of 50:1 fuel, I found myself regretting my money-saving decision.

On a similar topic, I feel like I *have* made a wise decision since being in this house to pay landscapers to handle my regular lawn maintenance. I feel a little guilty when it comes up in conversation that I pay someone to mow my lawn instead of doing it myself, but the math never made sense to me because:
1) My lawn is quite large
2) The guys I use seem very reasonably priced (though I still think their fall cleanup quote seems high considering most of the guys are probably getting paid very little per hour/day)
3) My 2-car garage is very small and has no spare room to store a suitably-sized lawnmower. Buying a lawnmower might require also buying a shed to store it.
4) My lawn isn't a rich healthy super-green all-grass lawn, so it grows pretty slowly. I can delay starting the mowing season quite a bit, and most of the summer it only requires a mowing every other week.

Even if I *could* squeeze a mower inside my garage, a decent ride-on zero-turn mower on the smaller side would cost me about $2000. Totaling up the cost of the mower, gas, occasionall tune-ups, and the gray area of the "value of my time" and then comparing that to what I pay my landscapers x the number of times I need them to come, it would take several years to see a ROI if I bought a mower and mowed my own lawn.

It would be even better if I could find a guy who offered to mow my lawn, did the work without a contract in place, and never got around to billing me until a couple of years later.

  I have started to be of this mentality as well.  Particularly if it is not a job I enjoy (see cleaning).  It is fairly simple.  If I would earn $X in the time it would take me to clean the house, and someone else could do it (and bring their own supplies) for less than $X, it is a no brainer.  If I really don't like the task, I put a multiplier in front of X.

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Watch DVDs at 110% of regular speed. Vlc does this seamlessly and doesn't distort the audio. Watch a few movies and you've saved a half hour or more.

I don't really have time to watch much, so I'll even crank it past 10% speed increase and fit a full movie in an hour or so.

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While speeding up movies isn't horrible if you can tolerate it and choose to do it yourself, the idea makes me grimace. Mostly because some TV stations are now speeding up their TV show playback slightly so they can have more time for commercials. Compare the play time of the episodes if you can't tell by the audio alone.

It's jarring when you like a particular actor's voice all season and then recently it sounds like they've inhaled some helium. :/

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When I was young, and I do not have too much money , the time is useless to me, and I will do the things by myself. When I get older , I have lots of money, I pay the money to hire someone to do things becuase I wan to save my time.

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got any examples?

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Lots of good stuff in this post

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"Google Inbox" on my phone is actually helping me manage my emails quite effectively. Took some getting used to, but it is allowing me to set alarms and effectively convert emails into 'to-do' items.

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I bought a wood-fired oven to make pizza. A pie used to bake for 6 minutes in my home oven, but now I can bake pies in 90 seconds. That means I can feed a large party of people in a relatively short period of time.

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I great WSJ article that summarizes the point of this thread: http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-know-what-your-time-is-really...

a few highlights:

"The time-and-money calculator Mr. Bram used, on ClearerThinking.org, has users set a floor, or market value, for their time by dividing their total compensation by the hours they work. Users also answer questions about various time-versus-money trade-offs they would be willing to make, such as how much an additional part-time job would have to pay for them to take it, or how much they would be willing to spend on a timesaving tool or service.

The calculator reports inconsistencies in users’ thinking. For example, a user might be able to make $50 an hour by doing additional part-time work but refuse to pay a company $30 to do a routine errand that would free up an hour of his time, even though he could pocket $20 by doing so, says Spencer Greenberg, New York, founder of ClearerThinking.org."

"Mr. Greenberg, a mathematician and co-founder of a hedge fund, says he got the idea for the calculator after watching a friend who makes a six-figure salary “wracking her brain trying to figure out how to use a $20 gift certificate,” he says. “She essentially lost more value just making that decision than the value of the gift certificate.”

"Emily Oster encourages students in her college microeconomics classes to factor “opportunity cost” into their time-use decisions. By choosing to use time in a certain way, they’ll have to give up other activities, says Dr. Oster, an associate professor of economics at Brown University. If hiring help “buys you an extra half hour with your job or your kids, it’s worth it, even if in principle you could do it yourself,” she says. She hires help with laundry and grocery-shopping to free time to spend with her 4-year-old daughter.

Still, this is a difficult concept for students to grasp. They readily understand that money spent in one place can’t be invested elsewhere, Dr. Oster says. But “when you take another step and say, ‘This is something you should apply to your life, to think about your time having value?’ This is hard.”

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Athenakt said:   While speeding up movies isn't horrible if you can tolerate it and choose to do it yourself, the idea makes me grimace. Mostly because some TV stations are now speeding up their TV show playback slightly so they can have more time for commercials. Compare the play time of the episodes if you can't tell by the audio alone.

It's jarring when you like a particular actor's voice all season and then recently it sounds like they've inhaled some helium. :/

  When I worked for a cable network I had to do that frequently. Shows originally aired in the late 70s early 80s had 4-5 minutes less commercials and the breaks were arranged in a different structure. Some got a 10-12% speed up. Others got the same speed and just had scenes shortened or removed altogether. 

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I just go shopping when they are really necessary. I try to spend less time on stores.
As a result, I can avoid attraction of a desire to buy something unwise.
Additionally also note list of things to buy before going shopping.
SAVE TIME AND SAVE MY MONEY

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find your second half that likes similar activities as you. Me and my wife have a lot of interests we can share, that way I don't have to waste my time on something I don't like doing it with her.

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jacekrsx said:   find your second half that likes similar activities as you. Me and my wife have a lot of interests we can share, that way I don't have to waste my time on something I don't like doing it with her.

You guys don't share similar activities. You like receiving a "you know" and she don't like giving a "you know"

She only do it cause she love you...

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ursugardaddy said:   
jacekrsx said:   find your second half that likes similar activities as you. Me and my wife have a lot of interests we can share, that way I don't have to waste my time on something I don't like doing it with her.

You guys don't share similar activities. You like receiving a "you know" and she don't like giving a "you know"

She only do it cause she love you...

  In that spirit, rather than spend time trying to get a "you know" you can spend some money to get it.

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Oh, great thread and found at the right time... Time-management is such a big problem for me. I found one thing that works well in fighting procrastination Time Tracking, although I'm often so lazy that I won't use it, but anyway. Toggl or trell-o are awesome, because when you have the timer going on you stay focused. Best part: toggl has a free version. Althoguh a plain old timer works too. Ok, may be I should stop wasting my time sitting on the forum and set up my timer

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Can't agree more with watch what you buy (just reading Marie Kondo and trying to get better at managing how much stuff I have)

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zmre2b9 said:   I great WSJ article that summarizes the point of this thread: http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-know-what-your-time-is-really... 

  This article is behind a paywall. Thanks just the same.

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El_Duderino said:   
zmre2b9 said:   I great WSJ article that summarizes the point of this thread: http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-know-what-your-time-is-really... 

 

  This article is behind a paywall. Thanks just the same.

  Just use The Google to "Google" the title.  You'll get a certain number of articles for free.  For some reason, when things are linked like this, I don't get the free pass.  

ETA:  I think this article is great, as is the online quiz.  This is one of those cognitive bias things that I have a very hard time understanding -- how other people don't understand, that is.  I guess I was awake long enough in econ class to have heard the discussion of marginal cost, marginal utility and opportunity cost.  Those concepts have helped me immeasurably in both my personal life and my work life.  

I have to wonder -- for those people who don't "get it", what percentage of people all of a sudden have the little light bulb go on over their head when they read the article / take the quiz?  I'm guessing few people change their minds / habits.  

As an example, once you hit a certain pay grade, grocery coupons become a time-cost, not a money-benefit.  And yet, I'll see busy well-off people spending lots of time with $0.25 off coupons for Friskies.  I'm not talking double-coupon-stacked-with-sale-stacked-with-CashBack-cc-plus-... you get the idea.  If your gig is extreme couponing and you make more than your W2 wage doing it, then God bless.  I'm talking driving from your job as an account manager to the store in the Lexus, buying free range organic artisan bread and then stressing over the coupon.  

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debentureboy said:   
El_Duderino said:   
zmre2b9 said:   I great WSJ article that summarizes the point of this thread: http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-know-what-your-time-is-really... 

 

  This article is behind a paywall. Thanks just the same.

  Just use The Google to "Google" the title.  You'll get a certain number of articles for free.  For some reason, when things are linked like this, I don't get the free pass.  

ETA:  I think this article is great, as is the online quiz.  This is one of those cognitive bias things that I have a very hard time understanding -- how other people don't understand, that is.  I guess I was awake long enough in econ class to have heard the discussion of marginal cost, marginal utility and opportunity cost.  Those concepts have helped me immeasurably in both my personal life and my work life.  

I have to wonder -- for those people who don't "get it", what percentage of people all of a sudden have the little light bulb go on over their head when they read the article / take the quiz?  I'm guessing few people change their minds / habits.  

As an example, once you hit a certain pay grade, grocery coupons become a time-cost, not a money-benefit.  And yet, I'll see busy well-off people spending lots of time with $0.25 off coupons for Friskies.  I'm not talking double-coupon-stacked-with-sale-stacked-with-CashBack -cc-plus-... you get the idea.  If your gig is extreme couponing and you make more than your W2 wage doing it, then God bless.  I'm talking driving from your job as an account manager to the store in the Lexus, buying free range organic artisan bread and then stressing over the coupon.  

  I tried the google search and still got stonewalled. People are reporting that it has been disabled.

http://digiday.com/publishers/wall-street-journal-instapaper/

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El_Duderino said:   
debentureboy said:   
El_Duderino said:   
zmre2b9 said:   I great WSJ article that summarizes the point of this thread: http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-know-what-your-time-is-really... 

 

  This article is behind a paywall. Thanks just the same.

  Just use The Google to "Google" the title.  You'll get a certain number of articles for free.  For some reason, when things are linked like this, I don't get the free pass.  

ETA:  I think this article is great, as is the online quiz.  This is one of those cognitive bias things that I have a very hard time understanding -- how other people don't understand, that is.  I guess I was awake long enough in econ class to have heard the discussion of marginal cost, marginal utility and opportunity cost.  Those concepts have helped me immeasurably in both my personal life and my work life.  

I have to wonder -- for those people who don't "get it", what percentage of people all of a sudden have the little light bulb go on over their head when they read the article / take the quiz?  I'm guessing few people change their minds / habits.  

As an example, once you hit a certain pay grade, grocery coupons become a time-cost, not a money-benefit.  And yet, I'll see busy well-off people spending lots of time with $0.25 off coupons for Friskies.  I'm not talking double-coupon-stacked-with-sale-stacked-with-CashBack -cc-plus-... you get the idea.  If your gig is extreme couponing and you make more than your W2 wage doing it, then God bless.  I'm talking driving from your job as an account manager to the store in the Lexus, buying free range organic artisan bread and then stressing over the coupon.  

  I tried the google search and still got stonewalled. People are reporting that it has been disabled.

http://digiday.com/publishers/wall-street-journal-instapaper/

  It doesn't work on many mobile browsers.

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Fair use highlights for commentary: http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-you-know-what-your-time-is-really...

What is your time really worth?

It is a day-to-day trade-off. We are constantly confronted with opportunities to save time by paying more money, and vice versa. Should you send out your laundry? Take the faster, more expensive flight or train? Do additional freelancing or consulting work? Now, more than ever, with the creation of TaskRabbit and virtual concierge services, there are opportunities to outsource every task for a fee.

But putting a dollar value on your time requires more than dividing your pay by hours worked. It requires thinking deeply about the trade-offs you are willing to make. More researchers and entrepreneurs are looking at the value of time in new ways, yielding new tools and insights to help people make more thoughtful choices.

Booking air travel is stressful for Uri Bram when he must choose between cheaper flights that take longer and pricier ones that would get him to his destination faster. He often has settled for slower connections with layovers. “I’m going to spend the whole afternoon flying anyway,” says Mr. Bram, a Tel Aviv-based author of nonfiction books.

Yet after using an online calculator to analyze the value of his time, he recently chose the quickest flight to Europe instead of one that required a two-hour layover, even though the ticket cost about $70 more. “I value those two to three hours. I can use those to do another article,” he says.

The time-and-money calculator Mr. Bram used, on ClearerThinking.org, has users set a floor, or market value, for their time by dividing their total compensation by the hours they work. Users also answer questions about various time-versus-money trade-offs they would be willing to make, such as how much an additional part-time job would have to pay for them to take it, or how much they would be willing to spend on a timesaving tool or service.

The calculator reports inconsistencies in users’ thinking. For example, a user might be able to make $50 an hour by doing additional part-time work but refuse to pay a company $30 to do a routine errand that would free up an hour of his time, even though he could pocket $20 by doing so, says Spencer Greenberg, New York, founder of ClearerThinking.org.

Mr. Greenberg, a mathematician and co-founder of a hedge fund, says he got the idea for the calculator after watching a friend who makes a six-figure salary “wracking her brain trying to figure out how to use a $20 gift certificate,” he says. “She essentially lost more value just making that decision than the value of the gift certificate.”

The calculator doesn’t ask whether people value activities for reasons other than money, such as enjoyment or helping others. It gets at those values indirectly, however, by questioning users about how much money it would take to get them to give up free time, then assigning a dollar value to their free time based on the answers. People who want to do more unpaid activities that they enjoy or value for other reasons tend instinctively to put a higher value on their free time and to demand more money per hour of additional work. More than 21,000 people have used the calculator since it was posted last year.

After using a calculator to value his time, David Yaden of Philadelphia decided to use a laundry service and hired someone to do invoices for his business.

After using a calculator to value his time, David Yaden of Philadelphia decided to use a laundry service and hired someone to do invoices for his business.

. . .

Vera Trofimenko, a Salt Lake City surgical resident who works 90 hours a week, says hiring cleaning and gardening help was a difficult decision. She asked herself, “Do I have a right to do that?” After she realized outsourcing those tasks was saving her half of the 10 free waking hours she has during the workweek, she felt justified.

. . .

Emily Oster encourages students in her college microeconomics classes to factor “opportunity cost” into their time-use decisions. By choosing to use time in a certain way, they’ll have to give up other activities, says Dr. Oster, an associate professor of economics at Brown University. If hiring help “buys you an extra half hour with your job or your kids, it’s worth it, even if in principle you could do it yourself,” she says. She hires help with laundry and grocery-shopping to free time to spend with her 4-year-old daughter.

Still, this is a difficult concept for students to grasp. They readily understand that money spent in one place can’t be invested elsewhere, Dr. Oster says. But “when you take another step and say, ‘This is something you should apply to your life, to think about your time having value?’ This is hard.”

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This probably saves time but definitely not money: Amazon Dash buttons. Anyone use them? Are they worth it?

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My money

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True.....

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I can't image I'd ever use a DASH button.  There are somethings I'm very brand loyal but even then I'm trying to find a deal. 

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MamaZ said:   I can't image I'd ever use a DASH button.  There are somethings I'm very brand loyal but even then I'm trying to find a deal. 
 Same here. Even with subscribe and save I end up canceling my subscriptions and waiting for a deal to order again.

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Yet after using an online calculator to analyze the value of his time, he recently chose the quickest flight to Europe instead of one that required a two-hour layover, even though the ticket cost about $70 more. “I value those two to three hours. I can use those to do another article,” he says.
  Yeah, except you won't.  You'll use that time to sleep or read or sip wine in the FF lounge.  This tradeoff only makes sense if you actually USE the time you save to make more money.  Which you prolly won't.

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And why couldn't he use the longer time on the plane to write an article?

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Longer flights don't mean more time sitting undisturbed on the same plane. Longer flights mean more time making connections, which constitutes moving through lines, navigating confusing and mis-labeled airport concourses, paying attention to PA announcements so you go through the correct hoops, and interacting with stupid people (ie people on little sleep, frustrated, impatient, and worried they will lose their shoes, smartphones, children, or butthole-virginity at a security checkpoint, all the while jockeying for the best position around the power outlets).

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kenblakely said:   
Yet after using an online calculator to analyze the value of his time, he recently chose the quickest flight to Europe instead of one that required a two-hour layover, even though the ticket cost about $70 more. “I value those two to three hours. I can use those to do another article,” he says.
  Yeah, except you won't.  You'll use that time to sleep or read or sip wine in the FF lounge.  This tradeoff only makes sense if you actually USE the time you save to make more money.  Which you prolly won't.

  Perhaps. But one certainly has the right to value one's time and to pay a premium to save it.

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Here are other ideas that save time (albeit miniscule amounts):

Laundry and dishwasher pods rather than powders or liquids
Swiffer sweepers rather than mop and bucket
Maserati instead of Crown Vic

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phisher4 said:   Maserati instead of Crown Vic
 CROWN VIC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whWg6xLF4AY



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Haha car stunt was funny

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