If a United Airlines employee wants your seat you'd better deplane before you're beaten and dragged off

Archived From: Off Topic
  • Text Only
rated:

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.
I can't make a judgement until I know whether or not the man was wearing leggings.

United should have upped the voucher offer until people volunteered.

NoMoneyInMyWallet said:   United should have upped the voucher offer until people volunteered.
  Alternatively, empty the plane then load it again, minus the bumped passengers 

Don't taze me, brah!

Seriously, can't they just hire a small plane to run these crew over? On one of the job I had, we hired small jet to run over a $10 electronic part across the country.

I was just on United flights for my business trip. They regularly and purposely overbook, and they constantly ask for volunteers to take later flights for vouchers. Now I know what they do if there aren't enough volunteers.

Totally unjustified. United should have upped the compensation until they got enough volunteers. There's always a price point where passengers just can't refuse. $800 isn't enough. United can't be cheap and justified in doing this.

I'm flying the "friendly skies" of United again next month. This time to Berlin. Wish me luck.

burgerwars said:   Totally unjustified. United should have upped the compensation until they got enough volunteers. There's always a price point where passengers just can't refuse. $800 isn't enough. United can't be cheap and justified in doing this.

I'm flying the "friendly skies" of United again next month. This time to Berlin. Wish me luck.

  The insanity on their part was that they didn't take care of the overbooking issue BEFORE letting anyone on the plane to begin with.

The secondary stupidity is that they stopped upping the offer at $800, when legally, they were going to be paying $1300 to whoever was forcibly bumped anyway (assuming it went smoothly).

And this was all to get some near-minimum-wage crew on-station for work the next day.


Instead, with this clusterf*ck, they are going to be paying millions in damages, and losing millions more due to bad publicity.

arch8ngel said:   
burgerwars said:   Totally unjustified. United should have upped the compensation until they got enough volunteers. There's always a price point where passengers just can't refuse. $800 isn't enough. United can't be cheap and justified in doing this.

I'm flying the "friendly skies" of United again next month. This time to Berlin. Wish me luck.

  The insanity on their part was that they didn't take care of the overbooking issue BEFORE letting anyone on the plane to begin with.

The secondary stupidity is that they stopped upping the offer at $800, when legally, they were going to be paying $1300 to whoever was forcibly bumped anyway (assuming it went smoothly).


 

  
The tertiary stupidity is they bumped customers in favor of their own employees. If no customers would volunteer to not fly, United should have stuffed their employees in a cab for a~ 5 hour ride.


 

Chgo to Louisville is 300 miles. They could have driven the united employees in a car. This was a united problem and the poor guy was treated like a terrorist and beaten. Totally wrong. Heads should roll on how this whole thing was handled by the united employees and supervisors that allowed this. Obviously common sense is in short supply at United Airlines and NO amount of RE-Training is going to FIX that. You cant fix stupid.

I hope United gets their A$$ sued off and lose millions in future business based on this sort of conduct.

best way to make money nowadays, book a united flight, get bumped dragged sue and profit!

The maximum payment required for IDB is the lesser of 4 times the one way ticket price or $1350. If a few passengers were on low cost tickets, it's possible that $800 (if cash instead of a voucher) was more than United would be legally obligated to pay. I believe that the required amount for IDB should be the greater of the two amounts. Since all 70 passengers declined the offer, it's clear that someone needed to authorize higher compensation. Although not required to do so, United should have increased compensation until 4 people hit the call button to accept it.

Airlines tend to IDB passengers based on ticket cost and status. Once the decision about who loses their seat is made, there is little that a passenger can do to reverse this decision. Although nobody wanted to be removed from the flight, three people deplaned and one didn't. Although I don't believe that someone who claims that his or her need to travel is greater than everyone else's should be able to get someone else removed, how the passenger was removed is appalling. I would hate to be on a plane where one passenger refused to leave resulted in the airline going through the entire passenger list trying to decide based on the story each told who gets kicked off the flight. Does someone who may get fired for missing work or who (claims to be) visiting a dying relative deserve less deference than a person who feels he or she is too important to miss a flight?

I am in no way defending United or the police. United should have offered more compensation or found other transportation for its employees. There is no defense for how this person was removed.

OOrochiimaru said:   best way to make money nowadays, book a united flight, get bumped dragged sue and profit!

In the spirit of FW:

1. Book a United flight
2. Refuse to unboard.
3. #}+|€<*{&)@/&(@
4. Profit!!!!

I remember reading this article last years, funny title:

UNITED’S QUEST TO BE LESS AWFUL

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-united-airlines-struggle...

ryeny3 said:   The maximum payment required for IDB is the lesser of 4 times the one way ticket price or $1350. If a few passengers were on low cost tickets, it's possible that $800 (if cash instead of a voucher) was more than United would be legally obligated to pay. I believe that the required amount for IDB should be the greater of the two amounts. Since all 70 passengers declined the offer, it's clear that someone needed to authorize higher compensation. Although not required to do so, United should have increased compensation until 4 people hit the call button to accept it.

Airlines tend to IDB passengers based on ticket cost and status. Once the decision about who loses their seat is made, there is little that a passenger can do to reverse this decision. Although nobody wanted to be removed from the flight, three people deplaned and one didn't. Although I don't believe that someone who claims that his or her need to travel is greater than everyone else's should be able to get someone else removed, how the passenger was removed is appalling. I would hate to be on a plane where one passenger refused to leave resulted in the airline going through the entire passenger list trying to decide based on the story each told who gets kicked off the flight. Does someone who may get fired for missing work or who (claims to be) visiting a dying relative deserve less deference than a person who feels he or she is too important to miss a flight?

I am in no way defending United or the police. United should have offered more compensation or found other transportation for its employees. There is no defense for how this person was removed.


I think after this incident United will increase the amount gate agents can offer without higher-up approval. Offer passengers $2,000 and they'll get plenty of takers.

When I was waiting for a flight from SFO to LAX in December, the waiting area screens said they were overbooked by over 20 seats, and were offering a $150, then a $250 credit for a later flight. Forget that, especially during the holiday season. You might be stuck the airport for days. United is just trying to be cheap. Overbook and offer passengers pennies for the inconvenience.

Perfectly shows the contempt domestic airlines have for their customers. Why do domestic airlines suck? Because they can. Open up that market, let a free market give the airlines a long overdue kick in the ass.

ganda said:   Perfectly shows the contempt domestic airlines have for their customers. Why do domestic airlines suck? Because they can. Open up that market, let a free market give the airlines a long overdue kick in the ass.
I think it already is a free market. Just one with a very high barrier to entry due to capital and knowledge requirements, you cant exactly just open an airline out of your home office/garage. Also profit margins are quite low, Southwest was profitable for years only because they had a fuel contract that turned out to be awesome for them.

kamalktk said:   
ganda said:   Perfectly shows the contempt domestic airlines have for their customers. Why do domestic airlines suck? Because they can. Open up that market, let a free market give the airlines a long overdue kick in the ass.
I think it already is a free market. Just one with a very high barrier to entry due to capital and knowledge requirements, you cant exactly just open an airline out of your home office/garage. Also profit margins are quite low, Southwest was profitable for years only because they had a fuel contract that turned out to be awesome for them.

  
Foreign airlines are not allowed to fly domestic routes. Domestic airlines are consolidating. No competition = sucky service.

ganda said:   Perfectly shows the contempt domestic airlines have for their customers. Why do domestic airlines suck? Because they can. Open up that market, let a free market give the airlines a long overdue kick in the ass.

While I approve of your sentiment, there isn't really an artifical barrier for entry for new airlines.

There are a lot of regulation, but I'm not sure if it's unduly burdensome for new entries.

scrouds said:   
ganda said:   Perfectly shows the contempt domestic airlines have for their customers. Why do domestic airlines suck? Because they can. Open up that market, let a free market give the airlines a long overdue kick in the ass.

While I approve of your sentiment, there isn't really an artifical barrier for entry for new airlines.


 

  
Foreign airlines are not allowed on domestic routes. Imagine what turds a lazy General Motors and Ford would inflict on us if all foreign cars were banned.

scrouds said:   
ganda said:   Perfectly shows the contempt domestic airlines have for their customers. Why do domestic airlines suck? Because they can. Open up that market, let a free market give the airlines a long overdue kick in the ass.

While I approve of your sentiment, there isn't really an artifical barrier for entry for new airlines.

There are a lot of regulation, but I'm not sure if it's unduly burdensome for new entries.

  A significant part of the value of some airlines is their control of gates and slots. Unless a new entrant can get airport access, it would be difficult to start a new airline.

this one is a cluster on many levels. a point of clarification, i know nobody really cares for the details because united sucks and that's that, but i understood it was the airport cops that dragged that poor sucker off the plane, not united employees.
and yes, he was probably wearing leggings.


click for Beavis
Disclaimer
ryeny3 said:     A significant part of the value of some airlines is their control of gates and slots.
 

  

ZenNUTS said:   Seriously, can't they just hire a small plane to run these crew over? On one of the job I had, we hired small jet to run over a $10 electronic part across the country.
  
That or they can also simply send another crew from another location.  I doubt that these 4 people were the only available employees in the whole company that could do the job.
burgerwars said:   Totally unjustified. United should have upped the compensation until they got enough volunteers. There's always a price point where passengers just can't refuse. $800 isn't enough. United can't be cheap and justified in doing this.

I'm flying the "friendly skies" of United again next month. This time to Berlin. Wish me luck.

 After watching the video, if they ever send in Negan to remove you from the plane, I'm sure you will promptly comply.

The media needs to stop calling this "overbooking". You can be denied boarding if the flight is overbooked, that's in the terms of your ticket. The passenger was not denied boarding, he had already boarded, he was dragged off the plane so a United employee could have his seat.


ganda said:   The media needs to stop calling this "overbooking". You can be denied boarding if the flight is overbooked, that's in the terms of your ticket. The passenger was not denied boarding, he had already boarded, he was dragged off the plane so a United employee could have his seat.

That's the rub.  Your ticket is meaningless.  You have no rights.  Using United's definition, they could sell 2,000 tickets to the same flight, and when you get to the airport, that's when they decide if your ticket works.  Jimmy Kimmel is right.  In other industries that have limited capacity that sell spaces in advance, whether it's making a reservation at a theater, a restaurant or to attend the Super Bowl, they're not taking reservations/selling tickets beyond the capacity of the venue.  I think a restaurant slightly might, but they have a solution.  Allow no people entrance without a reservation, and let the customer wait a bit for a table to clear, and the customer will never know there is an issue.  You can't do that with an airplane.  The plane isn't coming back to pick up any leftover passengers.   I can't imagine the riots there would be at the Super Bowl, if they sold twice as many tickets as the capacity of the stadium. 

burgerwars said:   Totally unjustified. United should have upped the compensation until they got enough volunteers. There's always a price point where passengers just can't refuse. $800 isn't enough. United can't be cheap and justified in doing this.

I'm flying the "friendly skies" of United again next month. This time to Berlin. Wish me luck.

  If the German police tell you to deplane, I wouldn't advise refusing.

ryeny3 said:   The maximum payment required for IDB is the lesser of 4 times the one way ticket price or $1350. If a few passengers were on low cost tickets, it's possible that $800 (if cash instead of a voucher) was more than United would be legally obligated to pay. I believe that the required amount for IDB should be the greater of the two amounts. Since all 70 passengers declined the offer, it's clear that someone needed to authorize higher compensation. Although not required to do so, United should have increased compensation until 4 people hit the call button to accept it.

Airlines tend to IDB passengers based on ticket cost and status. Once the decision about who loses their seat is made, there is little that a passenger can do to reverse this decision. Although nobody wanted to be removed from the flight, three people deplaned and one didn't. Although I don't believe that someone who claims that his or her need to travel is greater than everyone else's should be able to get someone else removed, how the passenger was removed is appalling. I would hate to be on a plane where one passenger refused to leave resulted in the airline going through the entire passenger list trying to decide based on the story each told who gets kicked off the flight. Does someone who may get fired for missing work or who (claims to be) visiting a dying relative deserve less deference than a person who feels he or she is too important to miss a flight?

I am in no way defending United or the police. United should have offered more compensation or found other transportation for its employees. There is no defense for how this person was removed.

  
Or perhaps they should do auction system like in other airline - United can go with the lowest amount passenger willing to accept  

The "word" of the year:

Reaccommodate.

I think that's the job of FW mod squad too.

When practical I will be reaccommodating my travel cash with another airline.

That United CEO needs to go, he's been utterly tone deaf over this at least twice.


new feature
Disclaimer
new feature

burgerwars said:   
ganda said:   The media needs to stop calling this "overbooking". You can be denied boarding if the flight is overbooked, that's in the terms of your ticket. The passenger was not denied boarding, he had already boarded, he was dragged off the plane so a United employee could have his seat.

That's the rub.  Your ticket is meaningless.  You have no rights.  Using United's definition, they could sell 2,000 tickets to the same flight, and when you get to the airport, that's when they decide if your ticket works.  Jimmy Kimmel is right.  In other industries that have limited capacity that sell spaces in advance, whether it's making a reservation at a theater, a restaurant or to attend the Super Bowl, they're not taking reservations/selling tickets beyond the capacity of the venue.  I think a restaurant slightly might, but they have a solution.  Allow no people entrance without a reservation, and let the customer wait a bit for a table to clear, and the customer will never know there is an issue.  You can't do that with an airplane.  The plane isn't coming back to pick up any leftover passengers.   I can't imagine the riots there would be at the Super Bowl, if they sold twice as many tickets as the capacity of the stadium. 

  
Hmmm. There's a difference between being involuntarily denied boarding at the gate (in the ticket terms), and being boarded, seated, and told to get off the plane (not in the ticket terms AFAIK) when you're not being unruly or a safety issue.

IANAL. Can you be trespassing if you've paid for a ticket? The airline took your money and let you get on the plane.

I would also like to know how the faux police/security goons thought it was OK to assault that guy:

"Get that passenger off this plane so a United employee can have his seat!"
"No, he's doing nothing wrong. That's an issue for you to sort out with your customer."

eta: I suspect aircraft are a special case, you know, for our "safety"

MilleniumBuc said:   
OOrochiimaru said:   best way to make money nowadays, book a united flight, get bumped dragged sue and profit!

In the spirit of FW:

1. Book a United flight
2. Refuse to unboard.
3. #}+|€<*{&@/&(@
4. Profit!!!!

  Minus medical bills.

One of the blog that the story linked on my phone is Mark Graban's Lean Blog. I agree with his assessment of this incident. Something like this doesn't just happen, it's usually the result of systematic issue.

http://www.leanblog.org/2017/04/accountable-vs-held-accountable-...

Like the Bloomberg story I linked above, United's problem isn't just a fluke, they been on the downward path for a while now.

I'll speculate that the flight wasn't overbooked, and that's how United's process failed. The gate system probably won't allow more passengers onto the air bridge than there are seats on the plane. All the passengers had a seat, but United wanted to prioritize its employees over its customers :facepalm:

ganda said:   
 
  
Hmmm. There's a difference between being involuntarily denied boarding at the gate (in the ticket terms), and being boarded, seated, and told to get off the plane (not in the ticket terms AFAIK) when you're not being unruly or a safety issue.

 

  
Exactly.

They have the clear right to deny you boarding the plane in the first place, assuming you get proper compensation (per the law) and are reaccomodated on another flight.

It is not clear, at all, whether they have the right or ability to force an INDIVIDUAL to give up their seat, if they already occupy the seat they are ticketed for.


The correct "work around", assuming they had an insufficient number of volunteers, is that they CAN force the entire plane to "deplane".
Then that gets them back in the position where they can deny boarding to whoever they need to, in order to free up a seat.

ryeny3 said:   
burgerwars said:   Totally unjustified. United should have upped the compensation until they got enough volunteers. There's always a price point where passengers just can't refuse. $800 isn't enough. United can't be cheap and justified in doing this.

I'm flying the "friendly skies" of United again next month. This time to Berlin. Wish me luck.

  If the German police tell you to deplane, I wouldn't advise refusing.

  Why's that? To the best of my knowledge, the German police aren't the ones shooting people for all kind of random reasons.

ryeny3 said:   
burgerwars said:   Totally unjustified. United should have upped the compensation until they got enough volunteers. There's always a price point where passengers just can't refuse. $800 isn't enough. United can't be cheap and justified in doing this.

I'm flying the "friendly skies" of United again next month. This time to Berlin. Wish me luck.

  If the German police tell you to deplane, I wouldn't advise refusing.

  
I'll deplane, but Herve better be waiting for me.

Skipping 55 Messages...
ryeny3 said:   In other airline news, Cathay Pacific is introducing dine on demand in business class. United countered with Asian take out.
Vietnamese was a flop.  



Disclaimer: By providing links to other sites, FatWallet.com does not guarantee, approve or endorse the information or products available at these sites, nor does a link indicate any association with or endorsement by the linked site to FatWallet.com.

Thanks for visiting FatWallet.com. Join for free to remove this ad.

While FatWallet makes every effort to post correct information, offers are subject to change without notice.
Some exclusions may apply based upon merchant policies.
© 1999-2017