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Replacement HVAC systems cost making ganda sad

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I need to replace the HVAC in my house, 3 zones, 3 systems, and was given a quote this morning of $36K, which in my mind is a used Boxster S The quote is for mid-grade systems, not the cheapest, not the most expensive.

I know roughly the how the systems work, but know nothing about the various brands and their quality. The quote was for Lennox (made domestically). 

Anyone want to chime in with "I've had brand A and it was complete crap", or "my brand B uses no power and hasn't failed for 25 years"

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3 units here too.. two of them these--> http://www.aireflo-hvac.com/products/80afgf.asp
The one in basement is this one --> http://www.fujitsugeneral.com/us/residential/products/split/wall/rls3-series/asu12rls3.html

Works well so far.. but then again.. we moved in the house ~19 months ago.

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<== Only $10 - $15.

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3 separate systems with AC? Sounds about right, must be a big house.

AFAIK, Lennox is mid-tier. American Standard/Trane is a level higher but the most important thing is the installation. There isn't huge gap in quality anymore but you will get occasional defects in an entire batch which doesn't show up until years later when they all fail. So, it's pointless to look at current report and predict the future.

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We had Lennox, wonderful system lasted us 20 years of Texas weirdness for temps... replaced it with a Trane, our bills are half what they were the technology is so much better . Happy savings to you, you may get that Boxter yet!

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$36K? Is this a palice? What's the summer electric bill for a place like that?

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Three furnaces and three AC units to replace? Sounds about right for that.

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HVAC-talk.com is probably your best source of information. 

Consumer Reports recently said reliability is about the same for all brands except for Rheem/Ruud and York, which they said have been the worst, mostly because of evaporator coil failures.  I'm surprised because I thought problems with evaporator failures dropped significantly when the industry changed to better methods of cleaning out the coils during manufacture that prevented corrosion from creating pinholes.  York has always been below par, but Rheem/Ruud used to have some of the highest reliability, up there with Lennox and American Standard/Trane.  

Central A/C prices can vary widely, even for the same brand, but $36K is about as high as a split  ductless system, like a Mitsubishi, Sanyo, or Fujitsu.

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kamalktk said:   Three furnaces and three AC units to replace? Sounds about right for that.
  
Yes, 3 of each, and I price the 6 units at about $15K. So $11K to install the damn things? I'm in the wrong business.

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ganda said:   kamalktk said:   Three furnaces and three AC units to replace? Sounds about right for that.
  
Yes, 3 of each, and I price the 6 units at about $15K. So $11K to install the damn things? I'm in the wrong business.

Probably not if you need 3 air systems to cool your house.

Is there a map so you don't get lost with a "you are here" dot?

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ganda said:   kamalktk said:   Three furnaces and three AC units to replace? Sounds about right for that.
  
Yes, 3 of each, and I price the 6 units at about $15K. So $11K to install the damn things? I'm in the wrong business.

But installation is real work. The ganda doesn't want to sweat it out, does he?

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scrouds said:   
ganda said:   
kamalktk said:   Three furnaces and three AC units to replace? Sounds about right for that.
  
Yes, 3 of each, and I price the 6 units at about $15K. So $11K to install the damn things? I'm in the wrong business.

But installation is real work. The ganda doesn't want to sweat it out, does he?

  Are you calling him fat? 

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scrouds said:   
ganda said:   
kamalktk said:   Three furnaces and three AC units to replace? Sounds about right for that.
  
Yes, 3 of each, and I price the 6 units at about $15K. So $11K to install the damn things? I'm in the wrong business.

But installation is real work. The ganda doesn't want to sweat it out, does he?

  
The ganda doesn't want to kill everyone with a carbon monoxide leak, but is willing to work as a laborer for a few days if his friend who installs HVACs for a living will work out of state for a few days on the quiet for cash.

eta: and don't call me fat

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Gas furnace?

And I believe the implication was lazy, not fat. But I stand corrected.

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3 natural gas furnaces. My apparently lazy and fat ass managed to get off the couch long enough to install a gas dryer, but furnaces are a whole new level of potential death IMO.

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ganda said:   
scrouds said:   
ganda said:   
kamalktk said:   Three furnaces and three AC units to replace? Sounds about right for that.
  
Yes, 3 of each, and I price the 6 units at about $15K. So $11K to install the damn things? I'm in the wrong business.

But installation is real work. The ganda doesn't want to sweat it out, does he?

  
The ganda doesn't want to kill everyone with a carbon monoxide leak, but is willing to work as a laborer for a few days if his friend who installs HVACs for a living will work out of state for a few days on the quiet for cash.

eta: and don't call me fat
 

  When my BIL gets asked by his clients if they can help with the HVAC work, he says "I charge extra for that". He likes things done right.
He has, however, gone many places to do work for friends and relatives for little or no cost and occasional perks.

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Also, just checked with a friend who needs whole HVAC system redone and their price was quoted at $12k for one system. No idea of brand.

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Just follow the instructions and get functioning CO detectors.

Swap them every 7 years. They go bad.

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I'd discover that you really only have one zone and need one system

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I just had an ac system replaced for $3500, which included putting down a new slab for it to site on and removing the old slab. Last furnace was 8-9k.

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kamalktk said:   I'd discover that you really only have one zone and need one system
  
One of my furnace blowers shit the bed (this is what triggered the process) and it's been getting as hot as fudge in here in May. I did ask "can I not just have one commercial sized system?" and apparently the cost is roughly the same plus you now have a single point of failure for that -10 February night. $36K will also get me thermostats I can control from my phone, so that's totally worth it.

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scrouds said:   Just follow the instructions and get functioning CO detectors.

Swap them every 7 years. They go bad.

  
Already have CO detectors.

There's a limit to the risks I'm willing to take to save a buck. Amateur installs of gas furnaces are over my personal line, e.g. I call in experts to fell big trees but if they've fallen already it's my chainsaw time.  

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I have to buy a new CO detector. The old one shit the bed in the middle of the night.

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When I had my house built (almost 29 years ago) the builder was installing Carrier equipment.
My brother-in-law had a guy who did commercial HVAC and at that time mentioned Carrier was crap and to get anything but Carrier. Really had no choice on the furnace as house had to have it but i waited and did not order A/C from the builder and got my own independent HVAC guy to put in a Lennox A/C with something called a SCROLL COMPRESSOR which was sorta newer at that time. Now I think most are Scroll type but while my Carrier furnace has long bit the dust as well as all the neighbors Carrier furnaces and A/C units, my Lennox A/C is still working just fine almost 29 years now.

It looks like hell out behind the house, all rusty on the outside wire cage and top fan and sun faded paint but until it stops, I don't really care how it looks. Had it serviced once about 23 years ago (by the company who installed it) and the guy said all I really needed to do is hose out the fins every Spring from the inside once I take the top cover screen off. Never had to even add freon in all that time. Service guy said it either leaks or it dont and mine dont. I live outside Chicago so not super hot like other locales but we do use it from Mid June thru Sept here. Furnace was replaced many years ago with a American Standard (which still uses a pilot light as new ones are electronic) but the Lennox A/C unit was not touched.

Not sure if Lennox is still a quality item but it has been very dependable for me.

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I'm trying to figure out how many square feet the giant warehouse you must live in has.

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Two years ago, I replaced our 22 year old Goodman A/C and furnace with another set of Goodmans. There were a couple of leaks toward the end of the A/C unit and furnace finally died so we replaced both. Bought the lowest efficiency and my monthly bills still dropped do to the increase in efficiency over those 22 years. Neighbor's Rheem seemed like nothing but trouble to him. I have family and other friends that have had bad experiences with Carrier.

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ganda said:    but know nothing about the various brands and their quality. The quote was for Lennox (made domestically). 
  If they are more than 10-15 years old, keep the old ones going as long as possible. Made domestically means nothing if most of the component parts come from China like they have been the last 10 years. Had to replace a compressor in a one year old system already, but the one in my house, installed in 1990 is still going strong.

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ganda said:   
kamalktk said:   I'd discover that you really only have one zone and need one system
  
One of my furnace blowers shit the bed (this is what triggered the process) and it's been getting as hot as fudge in here in May. I did ask "can I not just have one commercial sized system?" and apparently the cost is roughly the same plus you now have a single point of failure for that -10 February night. $36K will also get me thermostats I can control from my phone, so that's totally worth it.
 

  
Any $200 WIFI enabled T'stat would do that...you don't need to have a $12k hi-fi HVAC system to control it remotely.  BTW, $12k is on the high side for new furnace and condenser installed regardless of the brand.

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ach1199 said:   
ganda said:   
kamalktk said:   I'd discover that you really only have one zone and need one system
  
One of my furnace blowers shit the bed (this is what triggered the process) and it's been getting as hot as fudge in here in May. I did ask "can I not just have one commercial sized system?" and apparently the cost is roughly the same plus you now have a single point of failure for that -10 February night. $36K will also get me thermostats I can control from my phone, so that's totally worth it.

  
Any $200 WIFI enabled T'stat would do that...you don't need to have a $12k hi-fi HVAC system to control it remotely.  BTW, $12k is on the high side for new furnace and condenser installed regardless of the brand.

  
It sounds like he is in a market where the installation labor is disproportionately high.  (he mentioned $11k for the install, based on his pricing out the equipment)

Because in my market, a mid-tier 2-ton system with gas furnace is maybe $6k in equipment and installation is around $500, assuming you are keeping the existing ductwork.

$4k per system for install is fundamentally absurd UNLESS they are installing all new ductwork (and even then, it's high).
But he shouldn't need new ductwork, so he should be able to get a better itemized estimate that spells out why the labor charge is so crazy, and then negotiate from there.
 

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Around here it is common for a 3 ton Reem/Rudd system to go for $4500 installed.

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how many quotes did you get?

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meade18 said:   how many quotes did you get?
  
This is the first. Others are scheduled.

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I had my whole old R22 system (19 years old) replaced a couple months ago. Furnace in the attic and compressor in the backyard. $6,200. I let the crew in when I went to work, when I got back all was done. I have no idea how they squeezed the old furnace through the small door opening in the ceiling and put a new one up there, but they did. They also fixed a vent leak in the roof, that had been dripping small amounts of rainwater through a vent in the hallway. A roofer couldn't do a thing about it.

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burgerwars said:   I had my whole old R22 system (19 years old)
An old R2 unit? Was it sold to you by some jawas?

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kamalktk said:   
burgerwars said:   I had my whole old R22 system (19 years old)
An old R2 unit? Was it sold to you by some jawas?


Great deals, but quality is hit and miss.

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kamalktk said:   
burgerwars said:   I had my whole old R22 system (19 years old)
An old R2 unit? Was it sold to you by some jawas?

  
R22

"This is not the refrigerant you are looking for"

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too bad there isn't a buy 2 get one free deal.

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I have a Goodman HVAC unit that uses a heat pump to heat the house. I've been here just under 2 years, and the HVAC system was newly installed. During the first year, it had a leak and it lost all refrigerant. Goodman's warranty didn't cover repairs, but DE has a law that major appliances that fail in the first year, must be repaired by manufacturer, regardless of warranty. So, I got it fixed by original installer at no cost. He was surprised, as he said Goodman's were reliable - the leak was an improper weld in a copper joint, it was a tiny pinhole. Goodman is now owned by a Japanese company, I don't know if that makes any difference. I'm hoping it will last, installer said I should be good for at least 15 years. My unit is a discontinued model, so previous owner paid under $4000 for 2 ton HVAC system installation, including the concrete pad to set it on, and additional ductwork for the new blower system.

Don't have any recommendations, but good luck on replacing all that.

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ach1199 said:   ganda said:   
kamalktk said:   I'd discover that you really only have one zone and need one system
  
One of my furnace blowers shit the bed (this is what triggered the process) and it's been getting as hot as fudge in here in May. I did ask "can I not just have one commercial sized system?" and apparently the cost is roughly the same plus you now have a single point of failure for that -10 February night. $36K will also get me thermostats I can control from my phone, so that's totally worth it.
 

  
Any $200 WIFI enabled T'stat would do that...you don't need to have a $12k hi-fi HVAC system to control it remotely.  BTW, $12k is on the high side for new furnace and condenser installed regardless of the brand.

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ganda said:   
meade18 said:   how many quotes did you get?
  
This is the first. Others are scheduled.

i got a decent quote from someone that was scheduled from walking through costco

i like the boxster, too. but i wouldn't spend that much for one

Skipping 5 Messages...
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or maybe AAA or something else you're a member of. credit union? USAA is always sending me emails telling me i can save on one thing or another

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