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Carrie FIsher Dead at 60

I really, really, really hate 2016.

Moderator Comment: This thread is mirrored to these forums: OFF TOPIC, STAR WARS FORUM. — Mar. 29, 2017 @ 3:09am
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I read an article on it. It doesn't go too much into full spoilers - I think the script is kind of in limbo at this poin... (more)

Virgil27 (Jan. 09, 2017 @ 5:40p) |

Yeah i read in one of the old star wars books she goes head to head against Kylo. As much as i wanted to see that. I t... (more)

LiZaDaisy (Jan. 09, 2017 @ 7:24p) |

Actually, the books have been more or less erased from continuity, although you can definitely see Parallels between Kyl... (more)

Virgil27 (Jan. 09, 2017 @ 9:14p) |

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Oh no!

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Do we have bacta tanks Handy?

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I've taken that London to LAX United flight. I read her heart attack happened about 15 minutes from landing. If anything, that's a good sign in that she was close to medical help but it still takes time to get the paramedics onto the plane. If it happened over Greenland, that's a long time to a major airport.

I also read CPR was given and she's in critical condition. That I don't like. My father had a heart attack, and they restarted his heart and also was in critical condition. With that, the first time I looked at my father in ICU, I knew he was gone. Brain damage is quick.

The only time I was on a plane that was diverted because of a medical emergency was on Emirates Airlines from Dubai to LAX. The plane landed in Edmonton, Alberta. The pilot told us when we finally made it to LAX that a passenger's finger was severely swollen from her wedding ring. A doctor looked at her and said she needed that ring cut-off ASAP, or she may lose her finger. She did OK. Next time, she should get a divorce before flying.

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According to the updates, she's in stable condition now.

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Virgil27 said:   According to the updates, she's in stable condition now.

Here's quote off a Yahoo:

3rd UPDATE with statement on condition, 4:14 PM: Star Wars original Carrie Fisher suffered a heart attack on a plane en route to Los Angeles from London today. A source tells Deadline she was taken to Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center and is on assisted breathing. Her brother, Todd Fisher, told the Associated Press this afternoon that she is in stable condition and “out of emergency.”

UCLA is about a 14 mile drive from LAX.  Friday L.A. traffic, especially on this holiday weekend, can make that a grind.

Being on assisted breathing and "out of emergency" only tells me she's on a ventilator and moved to ICU.  

I guess we'll know soon what her prognosis is.  I wish her well.

  

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Thought this was going to be a deathwatch post.

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Gentlemen, please keep her in your thoughts tonight. Ladies, feel free to join in.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xDpBeJtxffQ

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Reuters and other news sources are saying that Fisher suffered from a cardiac arrest, which is different than a heart attack, though a heart attack can lead to a cardiac arrest. A heart attack is caused by a blockage of some sort, if she had any kind of blockage, she would most likely be treated with some kind of medication to dissolve the blockage, followed most likely by a procedure or surgery. Cardiac arrest is when there is a malfunction in the heart's electrical function, and the heart either goes into a an abnormal rhythm such as ventricular fibrillation, or just stops beating completely.

With a heart attack, typically there is still circulation, and oxygen still gets to the brain, as long as the heart is still beating, unless it moves into cardiac arrest. In cardiac arrest, no circulation is taking place, so oxygen is not getting to the brain. A heart attack victim can be sitting up and talking to you, a cardiac arrest victim will be unresponsive, not moving, not breathing even. The former is often breathing on their own, needing only chest compression to assist in circulation, if they are otherwise unresponsive. The latter needs full CPR because they aren't breathing, until medical personnel can stabilize the person, and get their heart working again. Cardiac arrest can lead to brain damage within minutes, if CPR isn't provided in a timely fashion.

Reports say that there were nurses and an EMT aboard this flight, so CPR was provided, and that Paramedics were waiting at LAX to meet with them upon arrival. Do planes have any kind of on-board defibrillator that they could have used to get her heart in a normal rhythm? While airline personnel do have some training in CPR/Basic Life Support, having the medical personnel on-board possibly saved her from serious damage.

A spokesman for the LA Fire Department (LAFD) said:
"At 12.11pm the Los Angeles Fire Department responded to LAX International Airport, Gate 74, for a patient on an inbound flight in cardiac arrest.
LAFD firefighter paramedics were standing by for the plane's arrival, provided advanced life support and aggressively treated and transported the patient to a local hospital."
– LAFD SPOKESMAN


"Her brother Todd Fisher said his sister is receiving excellent care but that he could not classify her condition.

Despite earlier reports that the actress was in a stable condition, her family say that she remains in intensive care.
"It's not fair to say 'stable.' I am not saying she is fine, or not fine," her brother Todd Fisher told Reuters in response to reports about her condition. "She is in the ICU.""

A person can be stable, yet still be in critical condition. While they may have gotten her heart started again, it sounds like they don't yet know if she suffered any lasting damage, "I am not saying she is fine, or not fine,"Todd Fisher."

It was thought that Alan Thicke had suffered a heart attack, he was alert and talking prior to being taken to the ER, where he was pronounced dead on arrival. He actually suffered a ruptured aorta due to an aortic dissection (A tear in the wall of the aorta, which causes blood to leak out). Death usually occurs within 3 hours once the tear forms. This is what took the life of John Ritter. I know a doctor who survived this. He was on a flight from Scottsdale Arizona to an airport near his Fairfield, PA home, and being a doctor, he knew immediately what was happening to him, and that he had a narrow window in which to get to a hospital. His wife alerted the flight crew that there was a medical emergency, they went back to the airport, met the Paramedics, and he went immediately into surgery to repair the tear and reinforce the aorta.

Here's hoping that because Carrie Fisher received immediate medical attention from trained medical personnel on her flight, along with aggressive treatment by paramedics on the way to the hospital, where she is stable but in the ICU - that she's going to pull through with minimal or no lasting damage. Thoughts and prayers headed her way.

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I believe (and I hope I am wrong) that because there has not been a whole lot of POSITIVE news
coming out about this, that it is much worse and the media is being kept in the dark about it.
Personally, I predict that she may be a goner in the very near future and if not, that her quality
of life will not be good for however long she has left.

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Dovetonsils said:   I believe (and I hope I am wrong) that because there has not been a whole lot of POSITIVE news
coming out about this, that it is much worse and the media is being kept in the dark about it.
Personally, I predict that she may be a goner in the very near future and if not, that her quality
of life will not be good for however long she has left.

Unfortunately, I think she'll be gone to.  From what I read the incident started about 15 minutes before landing.  She had no pulse.  Crew and passengers tried CPR but had to return to their seats for landing (probably then leaving her on the floor).  Paramedics came on board and took another 15 minutes to get her heart started, then wheeled her through the terminal to an ambulance.  That was 30 minutes without a pulse.  Brain damage is quick.

I've been through this issue with more than one relative, including my father.  Patient is in ICU on a ventilator.  Doctors do multiple tests and determine there is no brain activity. Brain dead = person dead.  They inform the family it's time to remove the patient from the ventilator and make arrangements.

It happens far too often.
 

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burgerwars said:   Crew and passengers tried CPR but had to return to their seats for landing 
 

  Find that hard to believe. Rules be damned, but you don't stop CPR just because you are landing. And aren't planes required to have defibrillators on board now?

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atikovi said:   
burgerwars said:   Crew and passengers tried CPR but had to return to their seats for landing 
  Find that hard to believe. Rules be damned, but you don't stop CPR just because you are landing. And aren't planes required to have defibrillators on board now?

I think the answer is yes for defibrillators:  LINK
The part I got about returning to your seats is from the TMZ site quoting a witness. Maybe, for safety reasons people have to be fastened and seated in all cases for landing, unless the whole plane is on fire.  If there are exceptions, I just don't know.
 

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burgerwars said:   Maybe, for safety reasons people have to be fastened and seated in all cases for landing, 
  You mean, for liability reasons?

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FAA requirement, but I think the pilot can make an exception.

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I typed her name in Google just now and got a whole list of matches saying she's in "stable" condition. "Stable" alone is not a condition:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_state

It's irritating how the press repeats stuff like this. You can be in "stable" condition after breaking your finger or on a ventilator and unconscious from a heart attack. There's a big difference between "good but stable," "serious but stable," or "critical but stable," although this article says you usually wouldn't attach stable to critical. I guess there could also be "dead but stable."

The media should just say the family has provided no information.

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^^^ The media is just repeating what little they receive from the family, both her brother and her mother have stated that she is in stable condition. Unfortunately, that tells us nothing, 'stable' means that she is functioning at a basic level, she's technically 'alive', it's the common response given when the medical staff mean "We really don't know at this point." Todd Fisher's comment to Reuters, ""I am not saying she is fine, or not fine" says a lot more. It's a 'wait and see' process, they'll monitor her, run tests, discuss findings with family, make a decision on how (if) to go forward.

Went through this with my brother, a month later after his trip to the ER, my mom and SIL were faced with making a decision as to whether they should take him off life support. My mom, a retired RN, knew there was little hope by then, his organs began shutting down. Once she explained in non-medical terms to my SIL exactly what was going on, my SIL agreed it was time to let him go. They stayed with him when the machines were turned off, and he passed almost immediately after.

The more I read about this, the more I feel not very hopeful about her recovery. One article I read quoted a YouTube star who was on the same flight seated a few rows behind Fisher. She didn't even realize it was Fisher. According to her account, Fisher passed out and slumped over in her seat. Airline personnel responded almost immediately, and asked if there were any medical workers on board, two came forward and immediately removed her from the seat, set her on the floor, and determining that she was neither breathing, nor had a heartbeat, began CPR. The YouTuber then realized it was Carrie Fisher. According to her, they continued CPR until the plane landed, and the paramedics boarded, then took over. Eventually the paramedics got a pulse, and were able to move her out and take her to the ER.

A half-hour of CPR is a long period, CPR works best in the short term, usually under 20 minutes. Hospitals generally call for a time of death once 20 minutes have passed, because they know the risk of brain death is high. And hospitals typically use some form of mechanical ventilation (bagging), which does a better job of getting oxygen in the blood than Mouth-to-Mouth resuscitation. Paramedics probably used mechanical ventilation once they took over, but she'd already had conventional CPR for around 15 minutes. I think burgerwars is probably correct on this, she's not likely going to survive this; or she will survive, but with significant cognitive impairment due to prolonged oxygen deprivation.

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atikovi said:   
burgerwars said:   Maybe, for safety reasons people have to be fastened and seated in all cases for landing, 
  You mean, for liability reasons?

  
It could be a liability issue to stop lifesaving measures on an unconscious person suffering a significant cardiac and/or pulmonary event. You don't stop, or the person dies, and family can (and possibly would) sue the airline. I would think in this case, the situation would override any policy. Non-essential people could return to their seats, but at least the person performing chest compressions would remain and continue providing basic life support until paramedics arrive and take over.

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It might be well to point that now Debbie Reynolds has directly posted on Facebook that Carrie Fisher is "stable", so there is no ambiguity in her condition beyond the great deal of what exactly "stable" can entail, as Burgerwars has posted.

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If her mother is still around at 84, I would surmise that if heredity is any indication, she should be ok at 60.

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atikovi said:   If her mother is still around at 84, I would surmise that if heredity is any indication, she should be ok at 60.

On the father's side, Eddie Fisher lived until he was 82, but there are no guarantees in life.

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atikovi said:   If her mother is still around at 84, I would surmise that if heredity is any indication, she should be ok at 60.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug, and can damage the heart. Carrie did lots of coke when she was younger (she admits it, it's not a secret). So much Coke John Belushi told her she had a problem.

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burgerwars said:   
atikovi said:   If her mother is still around at 84, I would surmise that if heredity is any indication, she should be ok at 60.

On the father's side, Eddie Fisher lived until he was 82, but there are no guarantees in life.

  82 is still more than 60.

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My parents are in their eighties, my sister just died this year in her early fifties. No guarantees.

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sublimosa said:   My parents are in their eighties, my sister just died this year in her early fifties. No guarantees.
  
I agree. While my father died at 78 (his death was directly attributed to his long smoking habit), my mom is turning 90 in July, and is still doing well. My younger brother passed at age 48.  Longevity of parents isn't a guarantee, it just means your odds are better of living as long as they do.

kamalktk  mentions Fisher's acknowledged use of cocaine, a drug that causes heart and artery damage. Remember Whitney Houston had a coke habit, and her death was determined to be due to Ischemic Heart Disease attributed partly to her cocaine use, along with drowning when she apparently passed out due to the effects of cocaine on her heart. Neither of Fishers parents engaged in risky behavior that put undo stress on their hearts. Singer George Michael's death has been attributed to heart failure, he too was well-known for abusing drugs, and likely they played a role in his cause of death, pending results of an autopsy.

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sublimosa said:   My parents are in their eighties, my sister just died this year in her early fifties. No guarantees.Only guarantees.. death and taxes.

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Unfortunately all the fact based guesses here turned out to be true, and she passed away today.

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And unfortunately, she didn't make it ...

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RIP. Carrie Fisher should still be alive.

On a lighter note, there goes my 2017 death watch list.Carrie Fisher should still be alive.

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MilleniumBuc said:   Unfortunately all the fact based guesses here turned out to be true, and she passed away today.
  
Officially, yes. But I think, like burgerwars, that she was already gone when she went into cardiac arrest. No details, but I agree with him that test results most likely confirmed brain death, and her family was faced with the decision to disconnect her from life support. It's a terrible thing for a parent to have to bury a child, I can only imagine how agonizing this must be for Debbie Reynolds. I watched my mother go through this after my younger brother's unexpected death, it took a toll on her. I actually wanted to throw something at the TV last night when the news starts with "We have a new update" to only repeat the same "stable" line from yet another source.

I hope the next installment of the Star Wars franchise gives Leia a proper sendoff. Hopefully they'll have some way to honor her in a manner fitting for her iconic role as a Princess and a General. 

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SweetClover said:   It's a terrible thing for a parent to have to bury a child, I can only imagine how agonizing this must be for Debbie Reynolds. I watched my mother go through this after my younger brother's unexpected death, it took a toll on her.
"Muriel Stonewall 1903 to 1954
She lost both of her babies in the second great war
Now you should never have to watch y our only children lowered in the ground
I mean you should never have to bury your own babies

Gravedigger
When you dig my grave
Could you make it shallow
So that I can feel the rain
Gravedigger"


Dave Matthews - Gravedigger

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Discussion with Mini KKH's which SW movie to watch in tribute.

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She has become more powerful than we can possibly imagine.

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RIP.

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It all really hit me when I updated the title.

This is perhaps a morbid thought, but there's already been a lot of speculation on this thread, so I'll run with it: do you think she knew she was sick? She just recently released a tell-all memoir which also detailed her affair with Harrison Ford on the set of Star Wars. Do you think she maybe knew she didn't have a lot of time left and wanted to clear the air? Or was this really just out of the blue?

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Virgil27 said:   It all really hit me when I updated the title.

This is perhaps a morbid thought, but there's already been a lot of speculation on this thread, so I'll run with it: do you think she knew she was sick? She just recently released a tell-all memoir which also detailed her affair with Harrison Ford on the set of Star Wars. Do you think she maybe knew she didn't have a lot of time left and wanted to clear the air? Or was this really just out of the blue?
 

If I was her & writing a book, I would want to release it in time to capitalize on the heat from Force Awakens & not get buried in the hype & ramp up to Rogue One.  That's a more likely explanation of the timing IMO.

 

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Virgil27 said:   It all really hit me when I updated the title.

This is perhaps a morbid thought, but there's already been a lot of speculation on this thread, so I'll run with it: do you think she knew she was sick? She just recently released a tell-all memoir which also detailed her affair with Harrison Ford on the set of Star Wars. Do you think she maybe knew she didn't have a lot of time left and wanted to clear the air? Or was this really just out of the blue?
 

  That doesn't strike me as morbid. I've been wondering virtually the same about GM-was he working on a documentary of his life/work because he knew he was ill?

Skipping 30 Messages...
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LiZaDaisy said:   Yeah i read in one of the old star wars books she goes head to head against Kylo. As much as i wanted to see that. I think they need to go back and let her die the same time Han does. It only seems fitting.
  Actually, the books have been more or less erased from continuity, although you can definitely see Parallels between Kylo Ren and Jacen Solo. 

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